Evil defeated (was: Universe of Pure Unconditional Love)

[SomeRandom]

Satan almost killed god....?
And then went into hiding?




Sorry but just couldn't happen.

[Karas]

"Marduk was originally a minor deity, but later became a powerful ruler. He was considered a creator god. After defeating Tiamat in single combat, he created the heavens and the Earth, organized the year into months, and arranged the planets and stars. He created the Tigris and Euphrates rivers from her eyes and made mountains from her udders. He smashed the weapons of Tiamat's army and put images of them at the gates to the underworld. He set up his temple at Esharra and his seat in Babylon." this is how Yahweh got into power. No idea what Satan (enki) went to but I think he's the one that will come back with more of his buddys to sort his son out

[Xanth]

Sorry but just couldn't happen.

To play devil's advocate for a second here... why not?  

[SomeRandom]

well if satan was forced into hell by god.... doesn't that say god has a lot more power then satan?

[GodsProxy]

SomeRandom, just to elaborate: satan attacked God (the good guy, I call him Daddy), then Daddy went into hiding.

If this is true, that would mean satan had more power than Daddy?

Not that I follow much christianity but they always said earth was the devil's realm. They got this one right.

Just an aside note, many different people got many different things right (and each one got many different things wrong as well).  So one or two here and there would get certain facts correct, but they never compared notes and ate some humble pie and said "ok I got this wrong, lets throw that away, but lets keep that fact which you discovered which seems correct, and lets keep my fact which also seems correct" and so on.

On a different topic, I haven't figured out how the astral fits into the picture, except that I know that it is real (having managed a conscious astral projection myself once.)

"We" (me and the the other cool spirits out there) always use the astral when we are in "battle mode". I suspect a select segment of the population is aware and consciously project onto the astral even when awake. This may only be true when this reality is in "battle mode".

So much to tell, so much to write, so much to discuss, so much to debate. I don't know why I spend so much time on this forum, I just know there usually turns out to be a really good reason for the things I land up doing. I just never figure it out at that exact moment Usually though I land up meeting an important attacker or defender in this fashion. It would really be novel to meet a conscious defender for a change. I sure hope that happens here

well if satan was forced into hell by god.... doesn't that say god has a lot more power then satan?

[SomeRandom]

Yeah but making things up doesnt make it true... or does it? Who knows in this universe we can barely comprehend.

[GodsProxy]

Hey Xanth and Summerlander,

And I'm still waiting for a big deposit from you guys into my bank account so that I can spend all my time working out the proof for you. Its quite a favor to save someone from eternal hell you know, least you could do is support me for a while, so that I can become a full time writer

I promise full refunds if my "theories" prove to be poppycock, payable before or after death, your choice.

Seriously, writing about this stuff takes time. I also have to work for a living in between times. I'm working on a document now. Give me two weeks or so, I'll get something out then.

I dunno about the rest of you... but I'm still waiting on this "logical proof".  >_>

[Astral316]

Proving and convincing are two different things. Truth be told, proving one fragment of consciousness is inherently superior over all others is not possible in this plane of existence. If you ask me, an anthropomorphic God and Satan are just personifications of positive and negative energy. God is the collective unconscious which we as fellow receptors of consciousness can either choose to collaborate with (be "good") or go against.

[GodsProxy]

Good point, SomeRandom.

"Who knows in this universe we can barely comprehend."

THAT IS THE WHOLE AND THE EXACT TRUTH.

I'm glad someone isn't pretending to know the truth about this reality.

Now, let me tell you something about how I KNOW.... the truth is that obviously I don't KNOW, it is impossible to KNOW, because that is the nature of the TRAP. You don't know you're in a trap, so why would you want to try and escape it? In fact why would you even bother with such a stupidly absurdly counterproductive thought, "I'm in a trap and I need to escape it" to scare yourself to death ... ETC, when you don't KNOW it is true. Sure, its a possibility - but ANYTHING IS! Who the hell can tell up from down in this damned place??

Well, SomeRandom, you have hit on the exact logical thought sequence which got me started on this whole psychotic view of reality.

But haven't you ever had the experience, that there is something YOU JUST KNOW IS THE TRUTH. You feel it in your water, in your blood, and in your bones. That is my proof and how I know this is real, we are heading for hell, and so is the rest of life. I FEEL IT IN MY WATER.

But what I just said in the sentence is clearly not good enough and absolutely poppy cock! How does that help you? I mean Christians are absolutely CERTAIN, THEY KNOW that they are saved , and that they are going to Heaven. You could never convince them otherwise. BUT THEY ARE WRONG! THEY MISSED THE WHOLE POINT OF THE BIBLE! GOD WAS CLEARLY ASKING THEM FOR HELP! (Not so clear? Well, we seem to have forgotten that the bible is 2000 years old...)

So now me, some idiot psychotic poster, is ranting we're all going to hell, and you're supposed to believe me? And I've got a solution? I mean yeah right, and pigs can fly too.

Now if I was SomeRandom, I would go onto the next post and read something with a bit more credibility.

My only claim to fame is.... I have fact after fact after fact after fact after fact after fact after fact. Each fact is an isolated observation of the obvious. Look at the tree, it has leaves on it. That kind of level, but obviously not quite so benign, that is just how obvious my "facts" are.

When you add each one up, you come to the same conclusion every time.

I'm writing a book on this. Let me try to give you a quick concrete example.

FACT 1: YOU CANNOT DISPUTE THIS: THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING BEYOND BELIEF ON THIS PLANET. (Google: Poverty statistics. And another FACT: BEING POOR AND STARVING MOST OF YOUR LIFE DOESN'T MAKE YOU HAPPIER THAN A RICH PERSON. In other words, someone somewhere said, the poor people are the happiest people. Oh rubbish man, I have first hand experience of this.) Can we somehow agree this FACT 1 is ABSOLUTELY TRUE AND UNDISPUTABLE?

FACT 2: CHRISTIANS SAY YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IN JESUS TO GO TO HEAVEN.

Fact 2 makes christian religion poppy cock! God wouldn't care if you were Buddhist or Atheist, if you were kind to other people and lived a good life, then I'm sure you would go to heaven? Isn't God a LOVING God, HINT HINT HINT?

Fact 2 makes every single christian so unbelievably stupid and neive, it boggles the senses!!!

But Christians are lovely, lovely people and not at all stupid! How could they possibly have been misled in such an obvious fashion???

FACT 1 AND FACT 2 ALONE ADD UP TO: WHAT THE LIVING HELL FOR GODS SAKE IS GOING ON IN THIS PLANET?

Youj don't need to be a genius to add up 1 & 2, and figure out, people are either incredibly stupid, OR WE HAVE BEEN ATTACKED, AND THESE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN BRAIN WASHED!

NOW ASK WHY THE HELL?

Ok, proceed in this fashion and you have soon explained, without any doubt and without any shadow of doubt without any doubt whatsoever (yes I'm repeating myself, stupidly, but it is not nearly as stupid as believing Fact 2 above, or even being aware of Fact 2 above and not wondering why people are INSANELY STUPID (I'm not even exagerating here, I'm pounding a point home THIS IS DEAD SERIOUS))

PEOPLE YOU HAVE BEEN ATTACKED USING YOUR ANCHOR POINTS (YOUR REFERENCE ON REALITY) AND WE ARE ACCEPTING INSANELY STUPID AND OBVIOUS AND INSULTING ATTACKS WITHOUT QUESTION, BECAUSE WE ARE IN A CONTROLLED REALITY. THE POINT OF THE CONTROL IS TO KEEP YOU STUPID!

Thank God for SomeRandom. I NOW UNDERSTAND HOW TO PROVE THIS WHOLE STORY LOGICALLY.

Since I also never used to place much importance on Fact 2 except "they're religious nuts and christianity isn't for me and who except an idiot would believe that", and this continued for 38 years of my life, I now understand: IF YOU'VE LOST ME COMPLETELY AT THIS POINT AND WONDER WHY I AM SHOUTING, I'm getting closer and closer and closer to being able to explain in a rational and slow fashion, written in a nice friendly commercial book, that we are in an eternal hell death trap destined for hell!

The best news of all is that satan is actually a loser and all you have to do is stand up to the dude (or girl whichever you prefer), and you've won! He wins through fear, terror and ignorance by default!

This all makes me very happy and feel very happy indeed.

Thank you SomeRandom.

My biggest revelation is that through discussing this with people, I CAN get a better reference on how to PROVE it, I CAN, and once it is PROVED to ONE person (I don't mean, accept it like a stupid blind amoeba), WE HAVE ALL WON!!

So disagreement is actually my best tool, and those who disagree and oppose my psychotic ramblings, are my best friends in this quest.... to help them help themselves help us help their loved ones and... move onto much better and happier pastures!

Yeah but making things up doesnt make it true... or does it? Who knows in this universe we can barely comprehend.

[GodsProxy]

If you ask me, an anthropomorphic God and Satan are just personifications of positive and negative energy. God is the collective unconscious which we as fellow receptors of consciousness can either choose to collaborate with (be "good") or go against.

God is our Spirit father, and he birthed us. No question.

[GodsProxy]

Proving and convincing are two different things.

Can you BELIEVE, in this case they happen to be the same thing... just another stupid paradox for us to get around.

Thanks for your comments, Astral316.

[Xanth]

GodsProxy,

I'm wondering what you hope to accomplish here?  While we support most ideologies surrounding everything metaphysical... this is predominantly a forum about ASTRAL PROJECTION, and you really don't seem to be interested in Astral Projection.

I'm thinking that a forum revolving around a more "religious" theme might be more suitable for your message?

[Astral316]

People suffering + outlandish Christian belief = We're all going to hell

There's a lot of distance between the dots you're trying to connect.

PEOPLE YOU HAVE BEEN ATTACKED USING YOUR ANCHOR POINTS (YOUR REFERENCE ON REALITY) AND WE ARE ACCEPTING INSANELY STUPID AND OBVIOUS AND INSULTING ATTACKS WITHOUT QUESTION, BECAUSE WE ARE IN A CONTROLLED REALITY. THE POINT OF THE CONTROL IS TO KEEP YOU STUPID!

You underestimate the fact that people are born into this reality as blank slates. We look to others to help us make sense of the world. Manipulation is not only possible... it's easy. Control is a huge motivator, agreed... but this has nothing to do with our reality as a whole. Just the people who inhabit it.

[GodsProxy]

Hi Xanth,

I will respect your decision if you wish to moderate this posting.

To justify my posting here:

My battles have all been fought on the astral plane.

Secondly, I avidly pursued AP 2 years ago and accomplished a projection. So there is a dependency here on AP which support many of my discoveries.

Thirdly, I believe these discoveries are of vital importance and interest to everyone.

In any case, if this post is entirely off topic and out of line, then I would like to request that you let it remain, I will not post any further replies, I just wish to inform the people when my book is ready for inspection.

I was enjoying discussing the issue here, but I remember my pledge in the initial posting. Your call.

Thanks Xanth.

GodsProxy,

I'm wondering what you hope to accomplish here?  While we support most ideologies surrounding everything metaphysical... this is predominantly a forum about ASTRAL PROJECTION, and you really don't seem to be interested in Astral Projection.

I'm thinking that a forum revolving around a more "religious" theme might be more suitable for your message?

[GodsProxy]

People suffering + outlandish Christian belief = We're all going to hell

There's a lot of distance between the dots you're trying to connect.

True, but I was just giving two quick logical examples.

You underestimate the fact that people are born into this reality as blank slates. We look to others to help us make sense of the world. Manipulation is not only possible... it's easy. Control is a huge motivator, agreed... but this has nothing to do with our reality as a whole. Just the people who inhabit it.

Incorrect, I understand this completely, but it has everything to do with how we've been hurt.

[luthienlv]

You keep stating that you can prove there is a hell. You said god is our spirit father, no question. The problem remains that these are merely your opinions and as such, you cannot prove them. You can only state these opinions which have obviously become beliefs to you, and create discussion. Conversely, my belief that there is no hell, is my opinion. I cannot prove it for you, but why should I try? This is my reality. Religion is emotion-based and is taken by faith. There are no facts, only feelings.
Is ice cream eaten by millions of people? Yes. Can you prove that chocolate is better than vanilla? Of course not. Even if the majority of people say it is (btw, it is  ), that does not make it fact. It is still only opinion.
If you choose to believe in hell, god, satan, etc., that is your choice and your "truth", your religion. No new concepts here. Same old stuff, regurgitated. Just different packaging.
IMO, trying to convince people they will burn in hell if they don't do such and such is using fear-based tactics to control people. As tasteless now as it ever has been.
Maybe you would sell more if you turned this into a cool galactic, good vs. evil, sci-fi book instead 

[Xanth]

You keep stating that you can prove there is a hell. You said god is our spirit father, no question. The problem remains that these are merely your opinions and as such, you cannot prove them. You can only state these opinions which have obviously become beliefs to you, and create discussion. Conversely, my belief that there is no hell, is my opinion. I cannot prove it for you, but why should I try? This is my reality. Religion is emotion-based and is taken by faith. There are no facts, only feelings.
Is ice cream eaten by millions of people? Yes. Can you prove that chocolate is better than vanilla? Of course not. Even if the majority of people say it is (btw, it is  ), that does not make it fact. It is still only opinion.
If you choose to believe in hell, god, satan, etc., that is your choice and your "truth", your religion. No new concepts here. Same old stuff, regurgitated. Just different packaging.
IMO, trying to convince people they will burn in hell if they don't do such and such is using fear-based tactics to control people. As tasteless now as it ever has been.
Maybe you would sell more if you turned this into a cool galactic, good vs. evil, sci-fi book instead 

Very well put. 

[GodsProxy]

Maybe you would sell more if you turned this into a cool galactic, good vs. evil, sci-fi book instead 

Well at least we can all agree on that point! Love the idea, and will do it anyway. Only difference will be that I will label it as a TRUE story. Shouldn't limit its appeal.

Its actually more interesting and much more marketable commercially than the Matrix,  IMHO.

Everyone here keeps on going on about where is the proof. I ask you with tears in my eyes, where is the faith? LOL. I did say it would take 2 weeks, but even that is ambitious for a 1000 page thriller.

Seriously, isn't anyone interested in taking up the argument on my side?

[GodsProxy]

Give credit where credit is due, you do make excellent points below. I disagree with many but not all of your logic / conclusion pairs. Your logic is always correct, but your conclusions are always disputable.

You see, I have experienced/seen first hand satan and the truth I testify to.

Now, if you fail to prove that there is no hell, you are taking in my own opinion only, an unacceptable risk. Burning in hell for eternity is not a risk I would personally take, just because I didn't bother considering some dude who told me that it does exist.

That, to me, is a more acceptable logic/conclusion chain of thought.

If you say it CANNOT be proved, that is your opinion. I submit respectfully that in the light and seriousness of my allegations, you have not tried hard enough. I further submit that you are categorically incorrect, it CAN be proven.

For me to prove to you that what you think cannot be proven, CAN BE PROVEN, is the same order of magnitude as PROVING hell. So my time estimate is the same.

Once I have PROVEN it, there is further no guarantee no-one will accept my proof in this life time. It may only be accepted later. It might give someone a context to better prove it sometime in the future.

Thank you for seriously engaging this conversation, your help is welcome and appreciated!

You keep stating that you can prove there is a hell. You said god is our spirit father, no question. The problem remains that these are merely your opinions and as such, you cannot prove them. You can only state these opinions which have obviously become beliefs to you, and create discussion. Conversely, my belief that there is no hell, is my opinion. I cannot prove it for you, but why should I try? This is my reality. Religion is emotion-based and is taken by faith. There are no facts, only feelings.
Is ice cream eaten by millions of people? Yes. Can you prove that chocolate is better than vanilla? Of course not. Even if the majority of people say it is (btw, it is  ), that does not make it fact. It is still only opinion.
If you choose to believe in hell, god, satan, etc., that is your choice and your "truth", your religion. No new concepts here. Same old stuff, regurgitated. Just different packaging.
IMO, trying to convince people they will burn in hell if they don't do such and such is using fear-based tactics to control people. As tasteless now as it ever has been.
Maybe you would sell more if you turned this into a cool galactic, good vs. evil, sci-fi book instead 

[Xanth]

Dude, most people here "know" you're not going to be able to prove anything.  The most you can provide is your belief or opinion.

But hey, go right ahead.  I'm certainly not going to stop you. 

[GodsProxy]

Cool, thanks

Here's a curved ball question for YOU: How do you PROVE astral projection to someone who has never AP'd before? Or is that the point you are trying to make?

Dude, most people here "know" you're not going to be able to prove anything.  The most you can provide is your belief or opinion.

But hey, go right ahead.  I'm certainly not going to stop you. 

[Astral316]

Now, if you fail to prove that there is no hell, you are taking in my own opinion only, an unacceptable risk. Burning in hell for eternity is not a risk I would personally take, just because I didn't bother considering some dude who told me that it does exist.

Well no one can prove a negative. The burden is on you to prove hell does exist... stating "I've experienced hell first hand" in a forum where most members have had their own first hand experiences in the "spirit world" and came to their own conclusions... well it's not gonna cut it.

What is the nature of this "risk" you speak of anyway? Does blindly accepting the existence of a biblical Hell avert the risk of ending up there? You sound like a typical Christian with a dash of conspiracy theorist.

[Xanth]

Cool, thanks

Here's a curved ball question for YOU: How do you PROVE astral projection to someone who has never AP'd before? Or is that the point you are trying to make?

No curve ball.  We don't try to prove anything to anyone.  If they're willing, we teach them how to experience it for themselves and make their own determination from there.

[GodsProxy]

No curve ball.  We don't try to prove anything to anyone.  If they're willing, we teach them how to experience it for themselves and make their own determination from there.

Ok, GREAT reply.

Can I ask, with all the humility at my command, for your assistance, as I wish to proceed in the same fashion.

I wish to allow you to EXPERIENCE IT FOR YOURSELF.

"Experience it for yourself" and then no proof is necessary, and I can relax a bit.

"Experience it for yourself" does NOT mean, AP into the lower astral levels (hells) or converse with a negative spirit. I highly advise against this.

I need your help on firstly, "how", and then secondly, to actually "action". I do not know enough about AP or the possibilities on the Astral, or if even such a thing would be possible. Knowing what I do (you do have the Astral Island where people can meet?) , I really don't see why not. Also, perhaps I need to be asking a different question, relating to "how".

"How": Setup a meeting place (safe). Now, you need to defend against negative spirits masquerading as good. They will simply tell you what you want to hear, not what you need to hear (the truth). So, DEFINE the meeting place as only allowing BEINGS OF LOVE AND LIGHT (positive spirits).

Then the appropriate spirits need to be invited. These can provide verification, which can hopefully be recalled on awakening.

This would need to be done very, very, very carefully. Define it so that it succeeds. This includes cross-verification and ruling out auto-suggestion. Obviously participants need to NEUTRAL to the out come.

The reality needs to be private and it needs to be obfusticated so that no-one outside can eaves drop.

Anyway, I don't want to continue too long in this vein. I myself cannot participate or AP (I am not an expert projector, thats not how the battles are fought), so I am dependent on some very sceptical beings taking this VERY VERY seriously. I think I'm smoking my socks if I think anyone will do me a favour and do this.

Xanth, if you think anyone would be willing to do this excercise, then there would need to a great deal more discussion. This is just a quick jot of my initial ideas.

You can't just project and do a casual trip and enquiry (I don't think). Experience has taught me, that you need to be intelligent and plan a bit. There are defenses in place against ANYONE discovering the truth, but if you suspect the truth, these are plain easy and simple to get around. I can help in this regard.

I can't guarantee that there is no risk of spiritual attack during such an excercise, but this should also be very easy to defend or guard against.

I have many other ideas in this regard. I might do some research on Astral Island and see if I can maybe visit there on the next "battle" session (this might only happen in a month or two, though). If I can connect with beings there, they might remember on there return. Or I might be able to change a thing or two that will act as beacons.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers Xanth.

[GodsProxy]

The burden is on you to prove hell does exist...

You are actually correct here. The burden is indeed on me, to prove that it exists.

It is true, but I don't like having to be the one to prove it. It is a massive responsibility. What happens if a truck drives over me before I've done it? I've been remiss in this regard. I've waited long, maybe too long. I regret this.

Why do I accept this responsibility, without condition? Well, because I am the one who has witnessed it. Therefore I cannot expect anyone else to relate to it. Frankly, it would be a very counter productive BS (belief system), if that is what it was. It is NOT a BS, it is a fact. However, if I was wrong, then I would be creating a BST if I created a strong enough "proof", which actually recruited people. This is (obviously) not my intention. It remains a risk though, because BST's do exist (of course), they are the bread and butter of how realities are created.

stating "I've experienced hell first hand" in a forum where most members have had their own first hand experiences in the "spirit world" and came to their own conclusions... well it's not gonna cut it.

Yes, I am aware of that. It also means that I am conversing with the most capable and informed population on the planet. AP's KNOW that we are more than just bodies. I don't have to overcome that hurdle with you guys.

It also makes you the most challenging to convince, and therefore the most worthwhile.

Unless I had AP'd , I would not KNOW, absolutely KNOW, that I have an existence independent of my body. No-one could convince me of the facts which I hope to relate in a verifiable form, if I had not experienced AP and lucid dreams.

What is the nature of this "risk" you speak of anyway?

The risk is that we're actually in a place which has been very cleverly disguised as a learning reality, but which is actually a softening up process, to kill you as a spirit, but unfortunately you cannot be killed as a spirit, "killing you as a spirit" actually means, torturing you forever more.  That is the risk, that I am identifying for you. Please reply if this doesn't accurately answer your question.

Does blindly accepting the existence of a biblical Hell avert the risk of ending up there?

No. Receiving the Holy Spirit, going to church, or being the church minister, have absolutely no effect whatsoever on your fate.

You sound like a typical Christian

Yes. Christianity itself makes it very difficult to prove there is a satan.

Christianity might be the reason why this post is taken with a pinch of salt by most people here.

Fundamental christians believe AP is evil and opens the door for demons. This is incorrect.

Christians involved with spiritual warfare are battling evil, but they have got completely the wrong picture, and cannot possibly succeed with the baggage of the christian Belief System.

To summarize, Christianity and religion have unfortunately made it almost impossible to believe in a satan or a hell, for any person who might be in a position to EFFECTIVELY do something about it.

A christian Spiritual Warrior (google Spiritual Warfare for more info on this) believes that God the Father is in charge of the battle. This is false. God is incapacitated. The only people who can do anything about the situation is Human beings, HELPED by spiritual beings.

with a dash of conspiracy theorist.

Absolutely. My favorite stupid example, is that the lizards are in charge of this reality.

Conspiracy theorists make wild claims and do not use logic to back up their claims.

My claims can be verified logically, but how EXACTLY to use logic to validate what I have personally witnessed, is still baffling my terrified soul Don't worry, I'm getting there, more and more every day, and every question here is helping.