Do animals have consciousness like we and spirit

[Greytraveller]

Some people claim that animals have a spirit or a soul. That could well be true. I don't have any pets and don't feel qualified to debate the issue.
However the idea that inanimate objects have a soul or spirit is confusing. Perhaps there has been some confusion between energy and soul/spirit/consciousness. Electro-magnetism is an energy. Here we can probably all agree that EM does not have a soul. Yet what about Chi, ki and Prana? These are energies. Yet are any or all these energies somehow related to a human soul? What about natural energies (air, earth, water or fire)? Is Gaia both an energy and the soul of the planet (thereby imparting each rock and boulder with a soul of its own)? Is that a viable arguement?

[Paukki]

Do animals have a spirit or a soul?
How the hell would I know?
I've griped and grumbled and griped again,
That lilies and birds, (seemingly Jesus's friends),
Supposedly neither worry nor fret o'er eating nor shelter,
While human beings do all that, helter-skelter!

Sure!  I exclaimed.  They have no brains!
Someone came  along and said egoic mind is insane.
I sighed, rolled eyes, and kept on reading,
And on endless parchments, kept on feeding.
They say "All's energy!"  They say "All's One!"
God sleeps in the minerals, awakens in plants,
God in animals moves, and in humans.......
Rants?  
[]    {exit, stage left...no, right!....up?...illusion of exiting?   [Ha-ha, I'm IN you forever, can't get rid of me]{oh, shoot, and you in me?  And your dogs and parrots, too? ...forever!??}]}...[fade-out melodically]}

--Paukki

P.S.  Pleased if you put down newspaper before leaving the puppy behind.

[TruthSeeker]

What separates homo sapiens from other animals is rughly speaking the "major brain"(biggest part of our brain). It is this part we use to be creative,liguistic,musical,logical,mathematical and consious. Other animals also has this part, but it is very under-developed. They rely on the brain core and the reptile brain more than us. This makes them act more on instinct, and more "bendable". i.e like a dog is by its master/owner.

BUT this does not in any way(some way it does, will come back to that) indicate that animals have a less complicated soul that homo sapiens(us). I am sure you think of your body as a shell. It is not ALL of you. This shell is something that constraints you and keeps yoou within some boundaries. I have not yet myself has a fulle concious AP, but all of its theory is to me believable and is very likely to be the truth. When astral projecting you do not have the same boundaries as when in the physical. i.e you can fly around, sense things you cannot sense in physical.

It might just be that a dog has just as complicated soul as we do, in fact its the MOST sensible thing. BUT here is also the possibility that animals have the same mentality as when soul or when physical. Many astral projectors have seen astral creatures when in astral form, not only in the astral plane(s), but also in real time. They tell of their pet also being able to leave their body, use their astral body sometimes BETTER than the projector. One I read about(famous projector,do not remember his name) told about him and his dog traveling the skys together, but I recall his description of this was rather vague, and it did not mention if his dog had a "higher conciousness" there or if it was the same as in the physical.

This is all just my opinions(exept hard facts like the brain functions,structure), but to it is most likely that animals do have souls, and PERHAPS they ARE MORE spiritual than the average homo sapien walkin the streets. i.e I have had 5 dogs during the last years, and all of them seem to have had a higher understanding of their environments. I can not explain it, but it just "deels" like they do. And there is the fact that animals, especially dogs can see ghosts(spirits,late spirits, evil entities and similar), this could mean the line between the spiritual world and physical is thinner to them than to homo sapiens? Also this could indicate they have a soul.

I await for my first concious projection, and when it happens I will make sure to try contacting my present dog as well as the four other past ones. I will post this when I have managed it. Until then..

Love is all there is,
TruthSeeker

[Psypunk]

It is funny that this topic come up because just the other day, I was sitting at my computer working when I just a mental connection with the mouse in Shakira's (my boa) cage.  The mouse was on it's hind legs just staring at me.  I looked at the mouse and waved, and it just kept staring at me.  It's almost like the mouse knew it was going to die and I was it's only hope for salvation.  The mouse didn't have the mental capacity to know how or why I could or would save it.  It just seemed to know.  Then I got thinking.  How are we to know the consciousness and individuality level of a mouse?  How do we know that they aren't as intelligent as us, they just have no concept of how to communicate with us because they do not perceive the world as we do.  Our brains have different filters from them, so we have no way of knowing what goes on in the mind of a mouse.  
If you think about it, we can't comprehend the different levels of consciousness and the varieties of perceptions there are in the animal kingdom.  No two creatures see the world the same way, so what makes it our right to decide which animals are ok to live with and have as friends and which animals are to be experimented on for the sake of our science.  Millions upon millions of frogs and mice are captured and killed just for the sake of high school dissection class.  Is it really that necessary that our kids know how to cut open an animal and identify it's organs?  Can't a book show them that?  We don't learn how to dissect a human do we?  So how come it's ok to dissect something just because it perceives the world in a way that is different from the one that we know.  We don't know reality according to a mouse, so what makes our reality better or right?  
If you think about it, if it were possible for all animals and creatures to be on the exact same perception and consciousness and perception level, it would be a perfect existence.  It would be like the garden of eden.  When adam and eve could hold conversations with the animals.  Absolute perspective and truth were known and believed by all.  Because it was obviously a given in that perspective.  Just like gravity is a given in the perspective we have now.  I believe that this is how it will be in the highest level of consciousness that we enter into (Heaven or Nirvana, or whatever you want to call it).  All of us will be on the same consciousness and level of perception.    I feel really bad now and don't know what to do.  It was this mouse right here in my cage that made me realize this...and I am about to execute it to my snake!!!  But if I don't feed my snake, she'll die...So what do I do [?] Maybe a snake isn't be best pet for an animal lover to have.  
Life is full of problems.   I am avidly against vivisection though, that is for sure.  

[TruthSeeker]

A very good point there Psypunk!
But lets say for some reason I had a very small brain like lets say a mouse-brain. That could actually be positive if I just kept my soul? This little brain filters different and may just pass more of you higher self through? Could this be an explanation to the dogs seeing ghosts? Well... one can sit for ever and think about this subject and have new theories over and over, so I suggest those who know how to astrally project into the physical plane do some experimenting with their pets if they have one.. Try communicatiing with it! Search for the neighbouring dog and have a chat! This could cast some more light on this very interestng subject..

Until next time,
TruthSeeker

[Paukki]

It's also been said that dogs and cats (and also little kids and who knows how much else) have brainwaves mostly in the theta and delta frequency.  Theta has been said to interface with "The Universal Mind", (delta?)  Not that I've proven this to my own daily conscious self.  But it might explain some of the more esoteric stuff about cats and dogs and whatnot.

[Fyrenze]

Someone earlier said animals don't go to heaven...Haven't you ever heard "All dogs go to heaven"[?]

But really, I'd agree with the general consensus that animals have consciousness and spirit.

Also, I agree with those who think human decision making tends to follow the path of least resistance. There certainly are plenty of cases where it doesn't, though. If that were the case, I'd have never decided to try OBEs and meditation. I'm not yet wired for it.

[monicat777]

I believe they do!!! I have a profound (yes,PROFOUND)relationship with my two cats.  I explain everything to them..trips to the vet, moving to a new place, visitors coming over, my moods, etc.  I believe with all my heart they understand, maybe sometimes even more than me. I send them love all the time and I listen to them. I want them to have the best lives possible and to feel they are part of my family unconditionally.  That's an important thing, they are so willingly unconditional, they deserve to feel that back.

[MeZergy]

I believe they do (at least those that interact with humans). My dog, Bonnie (who died Oct. 2000 at age 17), seemed to have a spirit. She was so nice to me because I had her since I was born. She feared like people do. She was afraid of a man. I'm not sure who, but my parents said that when she got her, she was afraid of my dad and she had scabs on her body.

So, yes, I believe animals have souls.

Heh, I know this is pretty old, but I decided to post anyway []

[dreamingcarnage]

To clearly respond you would have to know what consciousness is but there are so many definitions.  This is from http://members.aol.com/chris5264/jaynes.html


"Consciousness and the Reticular Activating System. Jaynes feels that is it is a waste of time to associate the RAS with consciousness because it is one of the oldest structures in the evolution of the nervous system. This is in contrast to Baars. Baars suggests that the RAS may be one of the most important and necessary brain areas associated with consciousness. Because many animals possess a RAS, Baars argues that they are actually conscious. The argument can be resolved if we focus on what Jaynes vs. Baars mean by consciousness. Many individuals hold consciousness to mean qualitative subjective states such as pain or our inner experience while looking at the color red. This version of consciousness is sometimes referred to as qualia. This simple level of sensory consciousness is clearly not what Jaynes is referring to. Jaynes's view of consciousness seems to indicate a higher abstract level of ego or self-consciousness. However this abstraction is still totally dependent upon basic sensory processes. "

[veliki grizli]

Please tell me your opinions.