Does astral projection feel as good as taking LSD/DMT...?

[spiritual86]

I heard that taking LSD or DMT is the best feeling in the world and that they experience euphoria and bliss. And I know that when people take these drugs, they enter the astral or higher planes, without having to meditate, etc. So since people feel SO good and have a trip when experiencing LSD or DMT, does that mean that astral traveling can/will feel just as good....?

[Travellingmist]

There's a flip side though. Yes drugs can make you feel soooo good and you can reach states you couldn't normally but there are plenty of people who have experienced bad trips while on drugs. Same on the astral. You can experience total bliss or total horror. Your choice. It's all about mindsets and being positive, banishing fears and being in control. Once you lose that control - lets say, you start to fear something and the fear takes over your body, things can get ugly. Especially when doing drugs as everything is heightened - emotions, colours, noise etc. At least while you are astral naturally and not drug-induced, you can experience the good more and more. And yes, the feel good factor is there with astral projection. You can feel so free and alive.

On drugs, there is no way you'd be on a higher plane. It might be your perception but no, it wouldn't be true. You'll be on the lower planes.

[urshebear]

hmmmm I dont think its the same.
Extacy gives you a mass rush of euphoria but its more like a cloudy, wasted euphoria...
AP is more leveled euphoria and you feel clear headed along with it, there is a certain purity that you just cant find anywhere else. (IMO)

Id rather AP

[Contenteo]

I have never taken those, but what we have dubbed "Pure Unconditional Love" is pretty hard to beat.

[bardips]

astral projection is nothing like dmt.

when you trip on dmt, your ears stay in the room and the rest of your body goes to another dimension with impossible machine elves dancing around you.  whatever music played in the room you tripped in is what you hear throughout the entire trip.

astral projection is nearly impossible to master.  it's clumsy, aimless (much of the time), and random.
dmt is easy to get a wild trip but it's often equally clumsy.  dmt trips are far less comprehensible than a.p. as ap is usually in your room or nearby world.

you go to entirely different realms in each type of trip. 

dmt trips have a strong sense of purpose, destiny, magic and more.
astral projection can be as mundane as the waking world

the list goes on.

[loppoppy]

dmt trips can seem like a lot of things that they aren't.
Astral Projection is the way to go, I much prefer being able to control and influence what I experience directly.

[urshebear]

We all know drugs are bad blah blah blah but we are referring to the "feel good" factor here and yes the euphoria you get from drugs is hard to beat but you could most likely get the exact same feeling through AP.

The majority of the time, there is euphoria and bliss that comes with AP but like I said its different, Its not the same intense rush. (that's not to say that you cant find that same rush in the astral cause you probably can)

[Stookie_]

This topic doesn't make much sense. It's assumed that both hallucinogens and AP produce a single type of measurable experience, neither of which do.

[majour ka]

I heard that taking LSD or DMT is the best feeling in the world and that they experience euphoria and bliss. And I know that when people take these drugs, they enter the astral or higher planes, without having to meditate, etc. So since people feel SO good and have a trip when experiencing LSD or DMT, does that mean that astral traveling can/will feel just as good....?

Erm word to the wise, both the drugs you mentioned induce paranoia and hallucination NOT AP... I I went through a crazy stage many years ago with taking different drugs and trust me forget it, mediation AP and spiritual unfoldment VS LSD is like comparing going on holiday to the Caribbean or watching it on you tube drunk.  It will mess you up if your not careful.

[astralp]

I see DMT and LSD as a tool to use to broaden your consciousness.  AP is the same thing.  However, in AP you are much more level headed and aware of what is happening.  On LSD however it will make your imagination work a lot better than an AP does.  What I mean is that you will imagine things that you never could have with a clear head as in AP.

DMT is another experience altogether.  DMT is by far the most out of ordinary experience I have ever possibly had.  Had I never smoked DMT I would have never known what consciousness is actually capable of.  I was literally in the 6th dimension.  I say 6th because i consider time the 4th dimension, the AP realms the 5th dimension, and DMT trip in the 6th dimension, as a lot of shamans who use ayahuasca say.  It is a dimension where time doesn't exist and a whole new world of conscious beings do. 

having said that, through astral projection you can recreate the LSD and DMT experience without actually using the tools (DRUGS).  DMT actually made remember a "place" i had not been able remember for thousands and thousands of years.  That was the feeling I got from it.  But after smoking it I remembered a dream I had which was the exact same thing as a DMT trip.  LSD trips are easy to recreate through astral projection, DMT trips are very very hard to recreate through astral projections.  I think The monks that spend a life time meditating are able to navigate through the dimension DMT will bring you in about 15 seconds.  The key is to remember how to get back to that dimension without using DMT.


So yes astral projection can give you the exact same feeling as a DMT or LSD trip, as long as you know what to look for and how to get there.

[ShaMagus]

I havent had an AP yet, but ive had several experiences with LD's, lsd and dmt. While i find it hard to compare the experiences, i believe the drugs are tools to open your mind and see possibilities. It is not without its price however. For me, who has a very addictive personality, it eventually lead to stronger and harder drugs and eventually iha to go to rehab to cut it. When i was doing lsd, i learned a lot of things and saw dimensions and were contacted by helpers. It alsohelped me to see an outline of my lifes purpose. But, then i started to recieve messages that i should do these tings without using the drugs. I didnt know how to and continued using. The price was milder psychosis and a downward spiral into harder drugs. What i see is that there wasnt any guidance from any physical person to lead me through these experiences, like there was in old traditions.

About two or three months ago, i smoked a lot of dmt one night. A friend of mine helped me to smoke as much as my body managed to get in. I imploded and ended up in a dimension i havent been before. All my thoughts manifested instantly and i was just floating in a space of colours. I hadnt any motion of my physical body. When i started to come back to my body, i had with me feelings of bliss and ecstacy. I had been to the other side and seen that death is not the end. After that experience, i just knew that these compounds have served their purpose for me. I know need to work on my mind nd body to produce these experiences. That is the next step for me.

So, when im lucid i feel an immense feeling of freedom and awe. I also feel more in control. There is also more time available to try out different things in comparison to be shot out into a space for 15 minutes(which can seem like a lifetime at the moment). These feelings are similar to the ones experienced when u feel connected through the use of lsd. The thing with lsd, is that its very easy to have an unpleasant experience if u dont know how the mind works. If u start feeding fear, u will have a very bad time indeed, whilst during an LD, u can just want to wake up and its over.

I also believe strongly that the feelings and emotions had during the influence of these drugs can be had while LD or AP. I think its a matter of letting go. If u experience eternity, that will evoke a very special feeling with or without drugs. I believe it will be even stronger without since its more grounded and u know they arent being chemically induced.

[bardips]

I havent had an AP yet, but ive had several experiences with LD's, lsd and dmt. While i find it hard to compare the experiences, i believe the drugs are tools to open your mind and see possibilities. It is not without its price however. For me, who has a very addictive personality, it eventually lead to stronger and harder drugs and eventually iha to go to rehab to cut it. When i was doing lsd, i learned a lot of things and saw dimensions and were contacted by helpers. It alsohelped me to see an outline of my lifes purpose. But, then i started to recieve messages that i should do these tings without using the drugs. I didnt know how to and continued using. The price was milder psychosis and a downward spiral into harder drugs. What i see is that there wasnt any guidance from any physical person to lead me through these experiences, like there was in old traditions.

About two or three months ago, i smoked a lot of dmt one night. A friend of mine helped me to smoke as much as my body managed to get in. I imploded and ended up in a dimension i havent been before. All my thoughts manifested instantly and i was just floating in a space of colours. I hadnt any motion of my physical body. When i started to come back to my body, i had with me feelings of bliss and ecstacy. I had been to the other side and seen that death is not the end. After that experience, i just knew that these compounds have served their purpose for me. I know need to work on my mind nd body to produce these experiences. That is the next step for me.

So, when im lucid i feel an immense feeling of freedom and awe. I also feel more in control. There is also more time available to try out different things in comparison to be shot out into a space for 15 minutes(which can seem like a lifetime at the moment). These feelings are similar to the ones experienced when u feel connected through the use of lsd. The thing with lsd, is that its very easy to have an unpleasant experience if u dont know how the mind works. If u start feeding fear, u will have a very bad time indeed, whilst during an LD, u can just want to wake up and its over.

I also believe strongly that the feelings and emotions had during the influence of these drugs can be had while LD or AP. I think its a matter of letting go. If u experience eternity, that will evoke a very special feeling with or without drugs. I believe it will be even stronger without since its more grounded and u know they arent being chemically induced.

good insights. 

how are you going to undertake your journey?  you have a life long journey ahead and it's going to require sincerity and seriousness and no shortcuts.

[jc43]

hmmmm I dont think its the same.
Extacy gives you a mass rush of euphoria but its more like a cloudy, wasted euphoria...
AP is more leveled euphoria and you feel clear headed along with it, there is a certain purity that you just cant find anywhere else. (IMO)

Id rather AP

Nobody's talking about extacy, we're talking about acid and DMT. Extacy is not a hallucinogen.


As for the main topic, here's my 2 cents, but I'm certainly no expert:

There's a theory that before there was any physical matter or energy there was basically a pool of consciousness. Not an intelligent god-like being who decided to create the universe, but a pool of unphysical being and knowing and feeling. The physical universe, for whatever reason (my aunt thinks the reason is so the consciousness could learn to love itself), then began to create itself from that pool. So billions of years later, as life began to evolve on earth, natural selection gave most animals the ability t harness this consciousness into an individual being/personality. This is done by our brains and nervous systems. Without our brains, we are not unconscious, we are just free-flowing consciousness that the cosmos is filled with.

I smoke a fair amount of pot. For a while, I think I was smoking too much for someone who didn't yet have much experience, and it started fogging up my thinking and perception of reality. Pot isn't really a hallucinogen, it just makes things seem a bit different, and I was interested in trying something to make me trip. So I tried 10x salvia (which is a hallucinogen stronger than lsd) and had a BAD trip. After that, I didn't smoke pot for a while, and as my mind cleared I began to realize that all drugs do, even pot and alcohol, is destroy your mind. Literally, they don't sprinkle fairy dust on your brain and then all the bad effects are "side effects," destroying your physical brain is literally how drugs work, its just about all they do. So I limited my pot smoking and swore off hallucinogens and anything stronger than pot.

Later though, I began to get curious about LSD. It seemed appealing to me that I could trip like I did on salvia, but also walk around, go to a concert, or whatever it is I want to do at the same time. When you smoke salvia you just lay down and trip for about 15 minutes then feel high for a few more minutes. When you do acid you can at least sort of function, but crazy things happen like your senses can switch (you see sounds and taste sights, etc.). But, since I came to the conclusion that destroying your brain isn't beneficial, I stayed away from it.

Later, I heard of the theory of the pool of consciousness I talked about, and came to a new conclusion. While you destroy your brain, you destroy what separates your tiny bit of consciousness from a mass pool of consciousness. You destroy your cage. You destroy what makes you an individual. There is a time and a place to be a physical individual, and there is a time and a place to run free and wild. Lessons are learned from all experiences. With this information, I decided that I'm going to try LSD as soon as I can get a hold of it.

As for the risks, the main risk of using any psychedelic drug is having a bad trip. If you do, its just an experience, and learn from it like any other. It WILL scare the excrement out of you and you will pretty much want to die in that moment, but all feelings and all thoughts are here to learn from. You are still exploring your consciousness. Bad trips still mean something, so if you have one, just analyze what happened once you're sober and see what you could learn from it.

The other risk is a big one. You don't have to worry about trying stronger hallucinogens (except maybe DMT, that sounds sketchy to me for reasons I'll explain later). What you have to worry about is people pushing "euphoric" drugs on you. Heroine (and all opiates), cocaine, and meth are all physically addictive and dangerous. And I want to make it clear that a PHYSICAL addiction isn't something mental power simply prevents, a physical addiction is when your BODY physically needs the drug to function properly. Cigarettes and alcohol are also dangerously addictive in that way. Don't even try these drugs that promise euphoria, they aren't worth it, and if you happen to play around with psychedelics you're likely to end up in the type of group where one person, a friend of a friend or something, is addicted to something and wants someone to share their pain, so they'll try hard to convince you.

And here's the DMT paragraph. DMT is naturally produced in your brain in order to make yourself dream. Other chemicals naturally produced in the brain include dopamine, seratonin, and melatonin, chemicals to regulate happiness and sleep. Funny thing is, having a crapload of one of these in you isn't necessarily a good thing. Too much dopamine causes your dopamine receptors to grow, so those receptors need more dopamine for the same effect. After using LSD, most people have more seratonin than before, which is a good thing, but if they do too much too often, their receptors will grow. This is how drugs can effect your brain, even "harmless" drugs like pot and alcohol. So how does DMT effect brain chemistry? Although much less research has been done on DMT than any of these other drugs, I can make some assumptions based on what I know. Smoking synthetic DMT often may cause your receptors for DMT to grow. Since DMT is the chemical for dreaming, it may take more and more of your brain's DMT to be able to dream if your receptors grow. This means you risk temporarily losing the ability to dream. I also hear that DMT can be psychologically addictive. The difference between psychological and physical addictions are that you don't need to feed your psychological addiction in order for your body to function. In a psychological addiction, you just constantly think "I want this drug..."

There's a theory that your dreams take place in the astral world, which would mean that lucid dreaming is effectively a type of astral projection. This would also mean that using DMT can bring you to the astral world, because DMT is the chemical that causes you to dream. This theory isn't very widely supported though. There is some interesting evidence I've seen, one example being a personal experience in which a friend and I saw each other in a dream, and the next day talked about it. If our dreams happen in our own minds, this would be highly unlikely. So if you want to try DMT and decide for yourself if the place it brings you is the "astral" world, feel free, as long as you keep the risks in mind. A bad trip can also occur on DMT and can be MUCH more intense than other hallucinogens. DMT is the strongest hallucinogen I'm aware of. I would suggest lucid dreaming as an alternative, not only is it safer, but it is actually fairly easy, despite popular belief. Most people don't realize that there are some pretty simple methods to lucid dream. Check out the youtube channel "GizE," he has loads of good videos on step-by-step lucid dreaming, VERY clearly explained.

OBEs on the other hand can be very difficult to achieve. I don't know of many simple, clear step-by-step explanations in any books or on the web.

As for how the actual experiences compare, I'd listen to what ShaMagus has to say; he's tried these drugs and I haven't.

[AJDIN]

I felt the euphoria of LSD and Astral/obes and i can say astral/obes are alot stronger

LSD is more a tingly europhic feeling which stays in your body and urging too get out, and astral/obes just consumes you as a whole seeing as theres no physical factor involved... thats how i would describe it

[gallianoj]

This is what Graham Hancock has to say about DMT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_2XJMjBCGA

[Contenteo]

After reading this again, I got a small burst of insight I would like to share.

Emotions. In an AP, you have complete control of your emotions. Like you have a 360 rudder. It is quite remarkable.

This does not seem to be the case with drugs. Every "drug experience" I have heard has this element of becoming overwhelmed with emotion. Positive and negative.

This is huge. Huge Huge Huge. As law of the astral: emotions are instantly manifested.

Personally, this would confirm a keystone of my mental model:
I like to think of this as hard drugs seem to be essentially a way to forcing one's mind into receiving information from a difference focus level. In this way, one would be having a information fed to them from two sources, the physical and the astral. This would account for many of the patterns we hear about from people's 'trips.'

Cheers,
Contenteo

[urshebear]

Nobody's talking about extacy, we're talking about acid and DMT. Extacy is not a hallucinogen.

I realise that but the reason I brought it up is that the topic was comparing the euphoria of drugs to the euphoria of astral projection. Not the hallucinogen factor and I feel that maybe when we talk about drugs and euphoria, extacy should get a mention

[itzbunkie]

I personally have smoked DMT over 10 times and I have also done LSD, none of those experiences compare to the rush I get right before I project though. Yeah doing these drugs definitely feels good but that only lasts for a limited amount of time and I personally dread the comedown effects. Also, just as you can have a bad experience while you project they can happen under the influence of psychedelics and nothing is more terrifying than having to sit through a bad trip until the experience is over; with astral projection you will end up waking up and that's the end of it. I personally don't think doing drugs is the ideal way to reach those states of consciousness but it is a way. DMT is a very powerful drug and it isn't something I would do just because it feels good.