Are We Living Within A Virtual Reality?

[Wi11iam]

Your interpretation can't see beyond the ego.   You can't see beyond the "haves"  and the "have nots".

Living isn't about government... It not about wealth or money... Ironically,  it's not about anything physical on this planet.

Living is about consciousness, and treating all with Love.

I speak of spiritual growth.  It's beyond every concept you have posted about.

The only prison is the one you've created for yourself.  It's unfortunate too,  because I can sit here and tell people this time and time again,  however it's not until they realize this on their own that it'll actually sink in.

I know this because I used to be one of those people.

The player – in placing an aspect of its consciousness into the human piece to 'power it up' causes something to be created which is called "Ego" which is used by the human to make sense of his existence and the ego exists precisely because the player remains largely a silent observer - the human does not know that he/she is  actually a player with an entirely different existence - the human is born and other egos which were formed before it was born explain to it what it is and why it exists and thus the ego is shaped or reproduced by those egos already existing.


If the individual ego follows a path which has it questioning its existence, the things it has been taught by other egos etc...that ego has a better chance of connecting with that silent observer - the game player - and if that occurs then the game changes - not the whole game, but that egos part in the game.

In regard to your understanding of the 'ego' it appears you are coming from a common mis-representation of what it is Xanth and are also using the very same to argue that mis-interpretation.

I cannot assume for certain where you are coming from but in relation to this particular message board which has much to do with all things "Astral" I would likely be correct to assume that your experiences regarding Astral have helped bring you to some awareness to do with such things.

The 'Ego' itself is not a bad thing which needs to be cut out of the human experience.  Essentially it is that which is an identity to do with this experience – Life on Earth predominately but also to do with experiencing Astral Realms.

When you return from Astral you are here in this dominant reality and what you learn about your experiences can be transferred into this reality from that one, and indeed from this one to that one.  They are intimately interchangeable.

You are strongly suggesting that I am neglecting Love in speaking about the need to create paradise on this planet and equality for all – and the human potential to actualise this concept.

Part of that ability to conceptualise what you refer to as 'spiritual' is to bring that into this realm as the leading motivation – not the airy fairy new age type sellable production but genuine care and loving kindness INTO this realm.

I doubt that anything will prove 'spirituality' any better than actualising its potency INTO this realm.

THAT is 'living in consciousness and treating everybody with Love.' 

The 'you ' that can 'sit here and tell people this time and time again' is that ego which has not understood the situation enough to allow that activation to happen to that point necessary that it is the only focus you can genuinely have whilst experiencing this physical reality – to help make paradise a certainty here in this Universe on this planet.

The reason it is not, is because human beings are out of synch with this reality – this universe is truly One thing.  It is not 'chaos' or 'forces of destruction competing with forces of creation.' Or 'good verse evil' darkness verses light.

The Earth is the same.

To be in the physical and believe that 'it is not about the physical' is simply lying to Higher self and what is doing the lying?

Ah – ego?  Inherited belief system?  What are you in the physical for, if it isn't even about the physical?

Ego doesn't need to be destroyed – it needs to be cleansed from the Ancient and reborn in a sense focused upon what it is able to do in its physical experience which reflects the nature of 'spiritual' – who told you that the physical was not even relevant? 

I would question that source.

The type of 'spiritual growth' you speak of which denies the relevance of the physical universe is of no value.  There are any number of philosophies promoting such a message making profit IN THIS PHYSICAL PLANE – it is a lie.

That the voice of the 'spiritual' would say on one hand 'it is not about the physical' while promoting its wares for sale in the physical – that is not real bona fide 'spirituality' but something the Ancient ego thought up for its own slice of the action.

It has proved itself to be anything but the genuine thing.

[Lionheart]

The 'Ego' itself is not a bad thing which needs to be cut out of the human experience.  Essentially it is that which is an identity to do with this experience – Life on Earth predominately but also to do with experiencing Astral Realms.

This is where I must disagree. The ego is what causes the greed, the greed is what causes the problems. I have been shown many times in the Astral and the physical how the ego is the one thing that has held humanity back. I have also been told to drop it completely and I feel much better for that. When I post here about my experiences here the reason is not to "puff my chest", it is to help people access the Wider Reality. I have gotten into arguments here in the past , not by defending what i said, but defending what others say. One thing that Thomas Campbell is spot on with is this world was made for others, not self. Once we realize this it changes who we are and what our real purpose here is. I am 49 years old, I don't own a home, my own vehicle, basically the only things I can say I truly own are my clothes and a couple of tech devices. But this has never bothered me, material things mean nothing to me, never have. Helping others does, in any way shape or form. But they must be open to that help otherwise I won't offer it. They have to learn their own lessons too.

[Stookie_]

You still have to work through your ego to participate in this world - it's how we function and relate and build relationships. You can't pretend it doesn't exist, you have a name and an identity that you're tied to, though you can come to a different relationship with your ego and eventually transform it into something higher. But to deny it is impossible. If anything, you have to confront the ugliest parts of yourself to change them.

[Wi11iam]

This is where I must disagree. The ego is what causes the greed, the greed is what causes the problems. I have been shown many times in the Astral and the physical how the ego is the one thing that has held humanity back. I have also been told to drop it completely and I feel much better for that. When I post here about my experiences here the reason is not to "puff my chest", it is to help people access the Wider Reality. I have gotten into arguments here in the past , not by defending what I said, but defending what others say. One thing that Thomas Campbell is spot on with is this world was made for others, not self. Once we realize this it changes who we are and what our real purpose here is. I am 49 years old, I don't own a home, my own vehicle, basically the only things I can say I truly own are my clothes and a couple of tech devices. But this has never bothered me, material things mean nothing to me, never have. Helping others does, in any way shape or form. But they must be open to that help otherwise I won't offer it. They have to learn their own lessons too.

Hi Lionheart

Thanks for your comment.  I have been thinking about the confusion surrounding the understanding of the 'ego' based on your reply and the general understanding of 'what ego is'.

Hopefully I can clarify where I am coming from.  To me, 'ego' is simply a device which serves to identify – and without it an individual has no ability to identify – or put another way, consciousness cannot identity its SELF without this device.

This is from its original meaning – which comes from Latin and simply signifies "I"  (and other forms of self identity such as 'me' and 'my' – and this is why I bolded those aspects when quoting your reply.)

This wiki on 'Ego' contrasts the different uses of the word and the meaning of the word, which is essentially where the confusion derives.

The way I am trying to convey my understanding of Ego is related to Freuds understanding of it:

"Originally, Freud used the word ego to mean a sense of self, but later revised it to mean a set of psychic functions such as judgment, tolerance, reality testing, control, planning, defence, synthesis of information, intellectual functioning, and memory. The ego separates out what is real. It helps us to organize our thoughts and make sense of them and the world around us"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego#Ego

I have also referred to that which takes a new born consciousness and invests something into it which is not true – it is a collective false identities which are from an Ancient human source which is similar to this...

"Buddhist traditions view Ego not as a single principle, but rather aggregates of conscious energy which create each individual's consciousness. These aggregates, or "heaps," are referred to in Sanskrit as skandhas."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_(spirituality)

...Although it is not consciousness itself but false personalities disconnected from the Source of consciousness.

In relation to the OP, the investment of the Players consciousness into the pieces in order to 'power up' those pieces still leave those pieces in a relative state of non identity due largely to the 'curtain or veil' created by the process – there is no 'memory' of prior existence which has to do with the Players – as being part of the Players – coming from the Players (the consciousness) and the fact that the default setting for each piece is the state of being 'new born'.

Thus the newborn are 'mind raped' by their predecessors - although it is not thought of as 'rape'    - what is occurring is that information is instilled into the developing individual human through the device which allows for identity to take place...which I call 'Ego'.

From this process, individuals are made into personalities they inherit those personalities from their immediate influences and extend that identity (add to the personality) through such sources as family race religion culture politics stars heroes teachers idols and countries. Etc.

For example, most individuals identify very strongly with the countries of origin – the philosophies those countries endorse and might say as a way of identifying themselves such things as:

"My name is John Smith, I am an American and I believe in Christianity."

This is the identity the personality identifies with.  Yet it is not truth.

I know what you are saying about 'puffed up' identity.  However it is not the device which is at fault but the way the device has been used, which is why I do not vilify the 'Ego' because it is the device.

This is why I am able to make assessments which are not based on what the personality looks like or otherwise presents them selves.

For example – If someone were to tell me that I must abolish the ego because it is evil – and say they were highly respected and revered (such as a guru) and had the looks and charisma and a great following, and they claimed to speak with 'spirits' and go to places in the astral to converse with wise personalities and bring back the message to impart on the followers, and part of the message informed me that the physical plane is of no relevance etc...and that same personality enjoyed the riches of life-style afforded to them by their followers, and has sexual relations with the pick of their followers and enjoyed all the best things, even thought the bulk of their followers remained poor and in need, I would know this personality to be a liar, and their followers to be deceived.

If their was a human being incapable of expressing personality, I would say that their ego device was not functioning, therefore the personality – any personality - cannot  express through the form.

So yes, we are certainly not the form.  We are the consciousness within the form and our 'disadvantage' is that we enter this particular form like empty vessels ready to be filled with whatever information by external personalities having access to do so, and we become or identify with those personalities and if we do not break that cycle (awaken) then we will perpetuate it.

I hope that this helps to clarify what I am saying regarding the 'ego'.  It is not a 'personality' but a device used by an inherited characteristic made up of many 'personalities' which are forced upon the baby/developing child as a means of controlling that individual.


In terms of the OP, this is the very thing which is building a prison for the consciousness experiencing this Physical Universe, principally regarding Life on Earth.

This is also why it is important to see that while we are here, it is either to build the prison (be part of the problem) or build the paradise (be part of the solution) and this is not to do with neglecting or otherwise finding a belief system which resolves us of that responsibility.

Also this is why I say that the astral is part of the prison system because it is not where we actually come from – it is not where consciousness is sourced.  It is a product of Collective and individual human imaginations which have are and will experience the physical universe.

Everything ever imagined through the human experience of Life on Earth can be found within the Astral Realm.

[Wi11iam]

You still have to work through your ego to participate in this world - it's how we function and relate and build relationships. You can't pretend it doesn't exist, you have a name and an identity that you're tied to, though you can come to a different relationship with your ego and eventually transform it into something higher. But to deny it is impossible. If anything, you have to confront the ugliest parts of yourself to change them.

Yes Stookie this is more to the point – but what you are 'confronting' if indeed you have to do so, is NOT 'parts of yourself' but are those things mind-raped into your baby/child framework which you then presume to be 'yourself'.

They are hand me down personalities they are false and disconnected to the Source of All Consciousness – they are illusions presumed to be real.

Costumes and masks.

I know it sounds a little harsh to use the expression 'mind raped' but I use it purposefully to emphasis the very thing which needs to be disowned and dissolved.  Rape, as an action is repulsive to most individuals desiring to be free from the perversity of merely acting out an animal existence and also desire to 'bring in the genuine spiritual' through their Mammal form...and assist in transforming a prison into a paradise. 

[Lionheart]

I know what you are saying about 'puffed up' identity.  However it is not the device which is at fault but the way the device has been used, which is why I do not vilify the 'Ego' because it is the device.

Everything ever imagined through the human experience of Life on Earth can be found within the Astral Realm.

Hello Wi11iam, another excellent fully detailed explanation. Kudos for that!  
I agree that it's not the devices fault, that its the way the device is used where the problem lies. That's just like all the new technology coming out right now is good, it's what it's being used for where the problem lies. There are many ways it can be used to help, but unfortunately too many ways it can hurt.

You will find many different scenarios in the Astral that show you that they are real. Things that you could never have imagined, things that defy word descriptions alone. This is what makes it so real, when you see new colors or  new shapes, images that you never could have imagined existed before. Beings that even transcend even your wildest nightmares, you know you are witness to something extraordinary.  

[Wi11iam]

Hello Wi11iam, another excellent fully detailed explanation. Kudos for that!  
I agree that it's not the devices fault, that its the way the device is used where the problem lies. That's just like all the new technology coming out right now is good, it's what it's being used for where the problem lies. There are many ways it can be used to help, but unfortunately too many ways it can hurt.

You will find many different scenarios in the Astral that show you that they are real. Things that you could never have imagined, things that defy word descriptions alone. This is what makes it so real, when you see new colors or  new shapes, images that you never could have imagined existed before. Beings that even transcend even your wildest nightmares, you know you are witness to something extraordinary.  

Dear Lionheart.

I have no doubt that these things you speak of are real.  But they are not reality.
It may be that you and I could never have imagined such things ourselves (for we are but individuals) but I would say that human beings have imagined these things into existence over the period of time Humans have existed on this planet.

I understand the attraction but fail to see how it impacts upon this here and now which you can't deny is your dominant reality until death you do part and how certain can you be that the things you now experience will continue the way they have, and that things won't change once you no longer have a physical body to occupy?

What exactly is the attraction?  What exactly is the point to things that defy word descriptions alone. Or seeing new colors or  new shapes, images that you never could have imagined existed before. Beings that even transcend even your wildest nightmares, you know you are witness to something extraordinary but for what reason or point this side of the black stump?

Why is it that the human heart can gravitate to these experiences but cannot give a toss for THIS experience? 

I guess what I am saying is that I couldn't care less about 'Astral' or its inhabitants or for  those who sing its praises when I witness no concern for the suffering or genuine attempt to bring equality and build paradise here on this planet and equality for every one coming from that direction.

This is not to say that I don't care for you or others as individuals – I just can't connect the dots as far as the attitudes go – it reminds me of those on serious drugs who are only concerned for their next fix and have no concerns for the world they live in or the stress their actions cause to others – they just want to get out of it and forget the world for a while.

Or those who use others to set up their life styles with no care for those who are being used for that purpose.

Now perhaps this is the same attitude as the Players, in which case I would say by pass the Players and find the genuine article.

This game is a mess and I include that wonderland you speak highly of.  I am sorry but there is more to this than meets the eye.

It is my opinion that the 'area' of the Astral realm Frank Kepple spoke about as "F4" is the gateway out of the whole game and into the Reality of the Players domain from where we essentially come from.

I think that if human beings fail, then so do the Players.  What do we 'fail' in?  We simply fail in Wisdom and Kindness and in Understanding our collective connection and we fail by defiling Consciousness with selfish heartless intention.

We fail to grow up.  We fail to see the true thing we are because of the false thing we have become.

[Xanth]

Everything you experience is a reality.

But as I said,  it's just another lesson which each of us has to come to at our own time.

[Wi11iam]

Everything you experience is a reality.

But as I said,  it's just another lesson which each of us has to come to at our own time.

Yes - it is consciousness which makes everything real.  Not intelligence or belief systems - these distort what is is that consciousness might observe.

The game (paradise or prison) had an unexpected twist...an unlikely possibility.
A possibility which the 'prison' team are allowed to undermine using whatever tricks they are able to come up with.
The prison team whose humans try and connect with them will create the necessary illusions in order that those humans work for the process of prison building.  If those humans see through the illusion and change their alliance then the player shifts its support to the paradise team The human pieces can individually connect with their game players through the common thread of consciousness and in doing so allow the player to realize that there was more to the game than simply trying to get humans to build a paradise or a prison...and through this realization another level opens up to their awareness...*

...it's just another lesson which each of us has to come to at our own time

[pondini]

Wi11iam, i would like to comment on your OP (which i largely agree with) and your subsequent comments, but i'm feeling lousy today. perhaps i will feel better tomorrow. until then maybe you can outline the protocol you used in deriving your particular theory -the books you have read, the experiences you have had, etc.

[Wi11iam]

Wi11iam, i would like to comment on your OP (which i largely agree with) and your subsequent comments, but i'm feeling lousy today. perhaps i will feel better tomorrow. until then maybe you can outline the protocol you used in deriving your particular theory -the books you have read, the experiences you have had, etc.

Pondini.

I am 49years old.  Some of my experiences I have shared in this forum.

I have read few books on any particular subject.

My main devices of learning have been serendipity/synchronicity in relation to my personal experience (subjective) and the external reality (objective) and have seen these aligned.

I have also worked with the Ouija principle and through this communications tool have also learned a great deal about the larger reality.
I have experienced lucid dreaming. OOBE.  I have never consciously experienced the Astral Realm to the degree where the memory of it remains when returning to the physical universe.

I look forward to your replies once you are feeling better.

[Xanth]

I have never consciously experienced the Astral Realm to the degree where the memory of it remains when returning to the physical universe.

You certainly don't have to believe me... but I'm 100% certain that you have. 

[Wi11iam]

You certainly don't have to believe me... but I'm 100% certain that you have. 

Of course.  As I said Xanth - I have never consciously experienced the Astral Realm to the degree where the memory of it remains when returning to the physical universe.

I am also 100% certain that I have and do.  But my focus is on this physical reality and having no retained memories of Astral experience seems to help that focus.

If anyone can convince me that I am wasting my time focusing on the physical reality or having a heart for its potential, I am - as always - open minded. 

[todd421757]

If anyone can convince me that I am wasting my time focusing on the physical reality or having a heart for its potential, I am - as always - open minded. 

I try focusing on the physical reality most of the time too. It has helped me stay grounded and has enabled me to experience real time zone projections exclusively. I do not allow myself to daydream, and I try hard to avoid dreaming at night. This has helped me achieve obe's that are physical in nature.

[Xanth]

William, are you talking about experiencing the "astral" or the "physical" while non-physical?  I'll be honest, I'm a tad confused by what you're saying, because to me, it makes little sense.
You've already said that you have consciously experienced the "astral" to the degree of where the memory of it remains when returning to the physical.  You just said you've had lucid dreams.  That's what they are.  Conscious experiences in the "astral", and you've obviously retained the memories, cause you remember experiencing them.

In my opinion, if you're talking about what Todd mentioned (the RTZ), then yeah, I feel it's a huge waste of time.  But meh... that's just *MY* opinion.  You might have to spend some time doing it before you come to a conclusion of your own.

I'll never understand why people are so willing to waste the precious non-physical time they have here in this physical reality which they spend the other 2/3rds of their life.  hehe
The very idea, too, that what you're experiencing might not even be this physical reality turns me away from the idea even more.  You're putting a lot of faith in the existence of this supposed "RTZ".

And remember, just because a projection looks like Earth... doesn't mean it IS the Earth.

[Wi11iam]

I try focusing on the physical reality most of the time too. It has helped me stay grounded and has enabled me to experience real time zone projections exclusively. I do not allow myself to daydream, and I try hard to avoid dreaming at night. This has helped me achieve obe's that are physical in nature.

Now this certainly I am interested in hearing more about Todd, as my own OBEs are of the same nature - what few I have experienced.

Truthfully though, I did not know what to 'do' with the 'ability' - what use it could be to me in relation to the Physical reality.

I do not ever purposefully try to avoid dreaming, lucid dreaming or even Astral projection and exploration but nor do I actively try to do these things either.  Only one of the few times this has happened with me, was it instigated through my willfully wanting to do it.

I would be most interested in hearing more from you on the OBEs which are physical in nature.

[todd421757]

Now this certainly I am interested in hearing more about Todd, as my own OBEs are of the same nature - what few I have experienced.

I would be most interested in hearing more from you on the OBEs which are physical in nature.

I always find myself in my bedroom immediately after projecting, except in the occasional lucid dream. All my techniques I use to experience etheric projection have been described in my previous posts. I like to switch up techniques from practice session to practice session to keep my mind fresh to avoid dreamlike qualities in an OBE. If I do the exact same technique every time, I start to lose focus while practicing.

I have never found myself in an another environment that isn't the RTZ, except when I occasionally have a lucid dream. I become alert in a lucid dream by forcing myself to separate (rollout, liftup, etc.) while in the lucid dream, then I wake up in the RTZ. The RTZ is always recognizable as my bedroom or house. I have never went straight from exiting my physical body to outside my house. I have always had to travel from bed to bedroom doorway, to dining room, to living room, to outside, to down the street, and return in a reverse fashion.

Etheric projections are very different than other types of projections. I usually am floating along with a dense energy feeling. I sometimes feel like I am a drunk. I have to body press myself against a door or wall to travel through it. Sight is difficult to achieve in an etheric projection. At least half the time, I have to sense energy to determine where I am at.

Every etheric projection I have had has always lead to falling into a dream or lucid dream if I try to prolong the experience by traveling too far. Etheric projections for me don't last too long. The average is 1 to 5 minutes. I try to get back to my body as soon as possible to remember the experience better and to avoid falling into a lucid dream. The farthest I have traveled in an etheric projection is 12 miles.

Some etheric projections I gain energy from and feel refreshed for the rest of the day, and some I feel a lost of energy. I have never had an etheric projection without vibrations.

I usually separate when I feel a faint tug that usually occurs immediately when the vibrations come. Sometimes it comes slightly later. The tug is difficult to find. I have separated before at the end of the vibrations, but that is a rarer occurrence. I have never separated in the exact middle of the vibrations experience.

I have never met a spirit in the RTZ. I have seen other people and animals that I have assumed were living. I have never been able to speak to anyone while in an etheric projection.

I have had both type of experiences in the RTZ where I would have a body and sometimes I would be like a point of consciousness.

I cannot hear anything while in an etheric projection. That is one of my main clues to whether I am in or out of body.

SInce doing etheric projections, I have been able to feel energy during some movements and interactions while on the physical plane.

Distance is the key to etheric projections. The projections are almost always a very short distance. Every movement feels like energy is being used up. When the energy is entirely used up, you feel the tug of the cord and are sent back to the physical body in a reverse fashion. Abrupt returns end in a jolt to my physical body that I can feel. Smooth returns do not have this jolt.

Travel is made easier in an etheric projection if you pull the your destination towards you versus traveling towards it. Also, I have to keep moving to keep the etheric projection alive. Once I slow down, I feel like my etheric body is starting to lose it's energy fuel and I am back into my physical body in no time.

Etheric projection seems to take a lot of will power and desire to be successful at it. Being too passive seems to affect my successes.

I have been able to move small objects several times in an etheric projection and later verified it. Like I mentioned earlier, sometimes you are sensing where the object is and moving it with your etheric self versus seeing it.

I have a much higher success in achieving etheric projection during the first and second day of a full moon.

There are many things that seem to somewhat lower my successes of an etheric projection: peanuts and other nuts, heavy meats, too hot showers or too much showering, not keeping up shaving your face, mind chatter, too sleepy, any and all medications, listening to too much television or music, and all forms of dreaming.

There is sometimes a momentary blackout upon separation and return. The times I don't get the blackout are the best and clearest etheric projections. Sometimes I feel myself re-enter back into my physical body and sometimes I don't. I always feel the exit from the physical body. I have never had a spontaneous etheric projection. It has always happened while consciously practicing a technique.

[todd421757]

The big question is when we die, do we automatically find ourselves in the reality we usually project into while we are alive.

Upon death,

For example, will I find myself in the real time zone. And some people will find themselves in a lucid dream. And the rest will find themselves in a regular dream. This is critical information to discuss, since the afterlife state may be dependent upon our last waking physical thoughts.

[Wi11iam]

William, are you talking about experiencing the "astral" or the "physical" while non-physical?  I'll be honest, I'm a tad confused by what you're saying, because to me, it makes little sense.
You've already said that you have consciously experienced the "astral" to the degree of where the memory of it remains when returning to the physical.  You just said you've had lucid dreams.  That's what they are.  Conscious experiences in the "astral", and you've obviously retained the memories, cause you remember experiencing them.

In my opinion, if you're talking about what Todd mentioned (the RTZ), then yeah, I feel it's a huge waste of time.  But meh... that's just *MY* opinion.  You might have to spend some time doing it before you come to a conclusion of your own.

I'll never understand why people are so willing to waste the precious non-physical time they have here in this physical reality which they spend the other 2/3rds of their life.  hehe
The very idea, too, that what you're experiencing might not even be this physical reality turns me away from the idea even more.  You're putting a lot of faith in the existence of this supposed "RTZ".

And remember, just because a projection looks like Earth... doesn't mean it IS the Earth.

Well okay Xanth – in that case yes I have experienced the Astral if indeed as you say, this is the place of lucid dreaming.

From what I have read of Franks Resource, it seems a lot more than just lucid dreaming – the lucid dreaming I have experienced is something which is real but still somewhat subject to my being not so in control like dreams often are.

Recently I also experienced a lucid dream where I was in 'New York' and at the end of the experience I remember getting the head buzz and began floating just prior to leaving that state and returning to this world and waking.

This I found interesting  - in that this has happened a few times for me recently – getting the buzz and the floatation and then immediately waking from that to this world.

In regard to the thing you call RTZ without a doubt THAT is the most powerful aspect of OOBE I have ever had – far more powerful and clear and precise than any lucid dream I have had.

But getting back to Frank's Resource, his stories give me the impression that he is experiencing the same powerful clear and precise state of being while exploring and recording his observations of Astral Realm.

As we all know, it is never easy to express these things in words.



Back to this RTZ – I remember just KNOWING that what I was experiencing was more real than the real thing and having thought about it often in the years gone by since that experience I see it as something which somehow is the real thing and this earth experience under 'normal circumstances' as being like a faint echo or shadow of that.  I did not find it boring whatsoever.
As far as 'putting a lot of faith' into the 'supposed RTZ' I am not sure I follow you.  I am not putting faith in anything – In relation to our shared dominant reality of Earth – experience of life on Earth, I am acknowledging the Potential – the Human Potential to turn prison into paradise.

[todd421757]

In regard to the thing you call RTZ without a doubt THAT is the most powerful aspect of OOBE I have ever had – far more powerful and clear and precise than any lucid dream I have had.

This is exactly the same thing I have been trying to tell people here too since I first started posting.

[Lionheart]

Why is it that the human heart can gravitate to these experiences but cannot give a toss for THIS experience?  
I guess what I am saying is that I couldn't care less about 'Astral' or its inhabitants or for  those who sing its praises when I witness no concern for the suffering or genuine attempt to bring equality and build paradise here on this planet and equality for every one coming from that direction.

How do you know the Human heart doesn't gravitate towards this experience? In fact how do you know what's in other people's hearts period? On this forum we have an section for sending Healing Energy to other people in need. Myself personally I do a meditation to send good energy to other people, countries in need all the time. The Global Heart Initiative comes to mind here. Xanth did a thread here where we could do a mass meditation to reverse World problems and suffering. Everyone cares about the suffering of the world in their own way. It's just they realize in this physical body we have that we can't be everywhere and help everyone at the same time. This physical reality has limitations, the Astral doesn't. But, you will find a number of our members here volunteer their time for charities and others in need.

[Xanth]

Well okay Xanth – in that case yes I have experienced the Astral if indeed as you say, this is the place of lucid dreaming.

From what I have read of Franks Resource, it seems a lot more than just lucid dreaming – the lucid dreaming I have experienced is something which is real but still somewhat subject to my being not so in control like dreams often are.

You say "it seems a lot more than JUST lucid dreaming".  Well, you're right.

In fact, Dreams, lucid dreams, astral projections, OBEs, any label you can think of regarding this soul travel thing... I think that *THOSE* are more than what people label them to be.  Actually, I don't think they are... I *KNOW* they are.  It's one of those personal truths of mine.  One of the many inevitable, inescapable conclusions I've come to lately.  I'm actually REALLY SURPRISED that more people haven't come to these same conclusions, because as I said, to me, they're inescapably obvious.

In regard to the thing you call RTZ without a doubt THAT is the most powerful aspect of OOBE I have ever had – far more powerful and clear and precise than any lucid dream I have had.

And I believe I know why that is... look for my posts I've made about "levels of conscious awareness".  I've explained this concept so many times, my fingers hurt.  ROFL 
I'll just provide my links for you to read at your leisure.  http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/07/22/labeling-experiences-of-the-non-physical/

But getting back to Frank’s Resource, his stories give me the impression that he is experiencing the same powerful clear and precise state of being while exploring and recording his observations of Astral Realm.

As we all know, it is never easy to express these things in words.

So true... I get really frustrated sometimes when I'm unable to put into words exactly what it is I want to say or describe.  Because all of this stuff is so very clear to me... I won't say it's 100% clear, but it's as clear as it could be without me objectively knowing (that is, beyond personal truth).

Back to this RTZ – I remember just KNOWING that what I was experiencing was more real than the real thing and having thought about it often in the years gone by since that experience I see it as something which somehow is the real thing and this earth experience under ‘normal circumstances’ as being like a faint echo or shadow of that.  I did not find it boring whatsoever.
As far as ‘putting a lot of faith’ into the ‘supposed RTZ’ I am not sure I follow you.  I am not putting faith in anything – In relation to our shared dominant reality of Earth – experience of life on Earth, I am acknowledging the Potential – the Human Potential to turn prison into paradise.

http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/07/08/my-observations-of-the-non-physical/
http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/06/02/possible-cause-for-reality-fluctuations-in-our-projections/

And I'll just point out that "more real" makes no logical sense.  Nothing can be "more real" than real.  Which means that perception, interpretation and a bit of ego are playing games here.    I do understand what you're trying to say... more real, as in more vivid and clear than this physical reality experience you have.  The point I make above in the first link explains why that is too.

I also have no doubt that the conclusions I've come to through my direct experiences are ones that everyone will eventually come to.

[Wi11iam]

How do you know the Human heart doesn't gravitate towards this experience? In fact how do you know what's in other people's hearts period? On this forum we have an section for sending Healing Energy to other people in need. Myself personally I do a meditation to send good energy to other people, countries in need all the time. The Global Heart Initiative comes to mind here. Xanth did a thread here where we could do a mass meditation to reverse World problems and suffering. Everyone cares about the suffering of the world in their own way. It's just they realize in this physical body we have that we can't be everywhere and help everyone at the same time. This physical reality has limitations, the Astral doesn't. But, you will find a number of our members here volunteer their time for charities and others in need.

Well that is reassuring Lionheart  especially in regard to the OP.

Also one and all my apologies - I was in a bit of a mood yesterday and let my frustrations leak out a bit.  Sorry.

[Wi11iam]

Nothing can be "more real" than real.  Which means that perception, interpretation and a bit of ego are playing games here.

No.  If anything it was quiet the humbling realization.  And certainly things can be more real than real.  Perception is the thing coupled with understanding.
The experience was more real than the normal reality but the environment was the same and that is why I said that in thinking about it over the years I see this earth/universe (and in relation to the OP - a VR) as an echo or shadow of that real thing.  I remember thinking at the time of the actual experience 'wow - this is even more real' and that is precisely the feeling/realization I had entered into a previously unknown thing and I knew - I didn't just 'know'.

I think you might need to adjust the 'ego' yourself when it comes to people sharing their personal experiences Xanth.  Indeed we all need to.  We obviously have differing ones but since these are subjective then who can say or has the right to say that the other is incorrect in their interpretation of what happened to them personally especially if they are not asking but simply sharing?

I also have no doubt that the conclusions I've come to through my direct experiences are ones that everyone will eventually come to.

While that piques the curiosity - and yes I will be looking into those links - you do realize yes, how such a statement shows that you consider yourself not only an authority on 'your conclusions being THE conclusions' but that others are simply ignorant?  Kind of 'guru' of you I think, but whatever. 

[Wi11iam]

Okay I read the Word Press links Xanth - we have a similar understanding although my experience of RTZ and when you say

This "knowledge" of your environment gets a little more iffy the further away from your room you get until you get so far away where you can't rely upon your memory of the area to get a firm "build" of it to experience.

It is definitely not the same as what I experienced at all so although it is obviously similar to RTZ, from the descriptiveness, (and other descriptions I have been reading since Todd brought it up) what I had cannot be relegated to being RTZ because my experience was quite different.

Which is interesting.  Are We Living Within A Virtual Reality?