Is this medium plain wrong?

[mimihigurashi]

I've been trying for a long time to find out what dreams really are and how they differ from Astral Projection, and it's very difficult to settle for an answer when most people give various different answers. For example, I don't know if you've heard of Erin Pavlina, she's a medium who's had lucid dreams and astral projections for years/decades (erinpavlina.com if you want to check it out) and this is how she describes the difference between LD and AP:

Comparison

Let's compare lucid dreaming and astral projection so that you'll see how distinctly separate these two experiences are.

In lucid dreaming:

You are asleep
Your experience is a dream
Your location is whereever you wish it to be (desert, ocean, future, past, mom's house, etc.)
Your consciousness is still inside your body
You can control the environment and characters
When the experience is over, you simply wake up

In astral projection:

You awaken, then you project
Your experience is real
Your experience begins in your bedroom, or wherever your body is
Your consciousness is outside of your body, and your body is left with none
You can manipulate your environment in the astral realm (somewhat), but you cannot control the actions of the inhabitants of the astral plane.
When the experience is over, you return to your body and merge your consciousness back into it

I've been browsing AP sites for a long time and read a lot of contradictory information to what Erin says.
For example

In lucid dreaming: Your consciousness is still inside your body
In astral projection: Your consciousness is outside of your body, and your body is left with none

Doesn't our consciousness leave the body to the astral every time we sleep? I've heard that on virtually every AP site. AP is natural and it happens every night during sleep. How can you "simply wake up" as opposed to get back to your body if you've actually been away the whole time you were sleeping? And the "your experience is just a dream vs your experience is real" thing, what does that mean?

Sorry for many questions, but I'm baffled how someone who's had so much experience with both dreams and the astral like her can say such things, if she is wrong, but the info she gives is so contradictory even to things on this site. I'm aware that everyone has a different experience in the nonphysical planes, but shouldn't there be an objective truth to what dreams actually are? Honestly, I would love to AP and if lucid dreams are no different, then it would be great, but what I would hate is for dreams to be "only in your head" while AP is "the real thing" as Erin seems to say. Is that true or is she plain wrong? Is there any other difference between LD and AP besides the fact that in LD you gain awareness while you're "out of body" and in AP you maintain your awareness while you're getting out of body?

[Volgerle]

I think she's plain wrong.

I'd go from another angle here to counter her "neatly-in-the-box"-views: Ordinary dreams.

Already in ordinary dreams I had lots of evidence for telepathic contact (shared group as well as one-to-one), also precognition and clairvoyance. So there is a relation to the "outside" world without doubt for me.

She has the old-fashioned view. She might even not be familiar with the 'extended mind view', metaphorically comparing the mind (consciousness) to a radio or tv program and the body/brain to a receiver (radio, tv-set). If the TV / radio breaks down or gets damaged that does not mean that the program stops. The brain-"radio" is just a receiver, probably collector and 'experiencer' and sender for the interaction between mind/soul and body computer. It's a computer which the mind uses during incarnations in specific realities such as this Earth environment, like we use a computer as 'user'.

Moreover, she does not explain the rather 'fluid' transitions within the continuum of dream <--> lucid (dream) <--> Astral Projection <--> OBE (RTZ-AP)

There is in my view nothing "just in the head". I even think that "mind" is without the body altogether and all the time. It is not bound to timespace. This includes dreams, thoughts, etc. - anything the mind does or 'is'.

She's just not ready for these concepts and so she's "teaching" old-school  . This might please some because the extended unlimited consciousness view is too confusing (or frightening?) for some to even consider.

[mimihigurashi]

Interesting, Volgerie, you're probably right, thanks for the info.

[deepspace]

Doesn't our consciousness leave the body to the astral every time we sleep?

Yes. IMO, you can project during dreams. We are all capable of getting there, what we are learning is how to navigate while we are there. I agree with the "tuner" analogy. I think we don't physically move around, but essentially tune in and we navigate by tuning in. That's my view.

[desert-rat]

Hear is Erin's link , if any one wants it . I liked discussing things with her when the Pavlina forum was up . I dont al wayse agree with her .
http://www.erinpavlina.com
p.s. I see the same discussion on another forum .
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=61426

[mimihigurashi]

p.s. I see the same discussion on another forum .
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=61426

Yes, I obviously posted there too in the hopes of getting some answers..

[desert-rat]

Some times it is interesting to see how people think from other forums .  As a.p. is not an exact science , not one has the same beliefs .  For the record , even after many years I have yet to have a conscious o.b.e. , but we all go out at night during deep sleep . 

[Lionheart]

 It's her own personal perception. To her this is the way it is. 

[Xanth]

I've been trying for a long time to find out what dreams really are and how they differ from Astral Projection, and it's very difficult to settle for an answer when most people give various different answers.

Who cares what others think?
What do YOU think? 
What do your direct experiences with the non-physical tell you about dreams, lucid dreams and astral projections?
That's all that should matter to you...

I have my experiences and my derived answers from those experiences.  Anything anyone else says, be it someone here or Erin Pavlina, are relatively meaningless to me.

If you can't or haven't projected yet... keep trying, until the day that you can answer these questions for yourself.

[desert-rat]

To quote DickSutphen we all create our own reality esp. when exploring  in an altered state . Beliefs become reality . More or less . 
http://richardsutphen.com

[Xanth]

To quote DickSutphen we all create our own reality esp. when exploring  in an altered state . Beliefs become reality . More or less . 
http://richardsutphen.com

I'd go as far as removing that "more or less"... because that's EXACTLY how it works, physically *AND* non-physically.
There is absolutely NOTHING different from how this physical reality operates when compared to any non-physical reality.