Is there more than one physical universe?

[no_leaf_clover]

i've never heard that the physical universe was spherical.. o.O ... hurts my head trying to comprehend that.. it would have to be a huge sphere. so huge that it would dwarf the universe as we know it and make it look like an infinitely small grain of sand. sort of like a grain of sand on earth.. if you were microscopic and you left your grain of sand, you would eventually come back to it if you traveled in a perfectly straight line for what would seem like eons. so maybe there are more 'universes', but would probably be named something other than other universes, seeing as how the universe is the WHOLE physical dimension.

the universe is expanding in all directions at an ever-increasing rate, so that all things physical will eventually be travelling at the speed of light. scientists are still trying to figure out where the gravity is coming from that causes us to increase speed as we pull away from the center of our known universe. that's how the ideas of black matter come into being.

maybe the black matter has something to do with what is beyond us. it's definitely an interesting topic.

[Adrian]

Greetings General-Army,

If my interpretation of quantum metaphysics and the age old laws are correct, then it is quite possible, probable in fact, that there exists an infinite number of multi-dimensional Universes, each with its own hierrarchy of physical, Astral and Mental planes.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Tisha]

We have such a hard time conceiving of things like "eternity" or "infinity."  If something is infinite . . . how can it be any shape at all?

Instant headache, just visiting this forum. [xx(] gotta go! []

[Ides315]

Hey, deep thoughts.

According to quantum physics there are multiple universes. Also, everything is everywhere until observed. Observance is what locks things in. This has been proven on the atomic level. A proton fired at a lead plate with 2 holes goes through both if looking at the energy trail left behind. If it is observed while going through, it only goes through one.

Best to all

[James S]

In 1957 physicist Hugh Everett proposed his "many worlds" interpretation of quantum physics. The following excerpt explains the tests he did to prove this:

quote:Multi-universe Interfering with the multiverse

You can see the shadow of other universes using little more than a light source and two metal plates. This is the famous double-slit experiment, the touchstone of quantum weirdness.

Particles from the atomic realm such as photons, electrons or atoms are fired at the first plate, which has two vertical slits in it. The particles that go through hit the second plate on the far side.

Imagine the places that are hit show up black and that the places that are not hit show up white. After the experiment has been running for a while, and many particles have passed through the slits, the plate will be covered in vertical stripes alternating black and white. That is an interference pattern.

To make it, particles that passed through one slit have to interfere with particles that passed through the other slit. The pattern simply does not form if you shut one slit.

The strange thing is that the interference pattern forms even if particles come one at a time, with long periods in between. So what is affecting these single particles?

According to the many worlds interpretation, each particle interferes with another particle going through the other slit. What other particle? "Another particle in a neighbouring universe," says David Deutsch. He believes this is a case where two universes split apart briefly, within the experiment, then come back together again. "In my opinion, the argument for the many worlds was won with the double-slit experiment. It reveals interference between neighbouring universes, the root of all quantum phenomena."

Excerpt taken from the following site -
http://fusionanomaly.net/multiverse.html

There seems to be more and more support of the multiverse concept.
The idea of new universes being formed from black holes -
http://www.mira.org/bonestell/kai/multi.htm

Theres so much out there!

James.

[Q]

I've always thought of space as a circular 3 dimensional spiral, and if you could punch your way out of the spiral, the entire universe would be destroyed.

[JoWo]

Hello James,

Perhaps there is yet another interpretation of the double-slit experiment.  Suppose that the quantum is an object that has four dimensions rather than three.  Our senses can perceive only three dimensions and therefore see only one 3-D aspect of the quantum at a time.  To visualize this, we can think of a situation where the object has three only dimensions, say a tree, and our consciousness is limited to two dimensions, like a camera that creates 2-D pictures of  3-D objects.
We can simultaneously take a couple of pictures of the tree from different angles and get different images of the same tree.  If we would line up the two photo negatives on top of each other, they would interfere with each other, whereas each individual negative shows a clear, well defined picture of the tree.  For the double slit experiment, we can ratchet everything up again by one dimension. In other words, we make two 3-D observations of the same 4-D object from different perspectives and get an interference pattern while any single observation shows clearly one single aspect.  I believe that the many-world interpretation of quantum physics is just that, the appearance of many different aspects of one and the same multi-dimensional reality.
Greetings!
Jo.
www.quantum-metaphysics.com

[Greytraveller]

Everett's 1957 Many Worlds Interpretation (MWI) was his explanation of the Superposition of the 2 states of a photon.
His theory goes - Science cannot measure a single photon as both particle and wave. (For this example assume the photon has been measured as a particle.) Everett saw the wave aspect of that Photon as still existing. But the wave existed in a Superposition in another dimension/alternate universe) with the particle of the same photon.
So Everett did not intend to spark speculation into alternate universes, parallel worlds and many different timelines. Yet that has been the result nonetheless.
Now if this forum were on a strictly scientific website then I would not mention this but -
The idea of alternate universes/parallel worlds fits Very neatly into the concept ot the ethereal plane(s) (and astral plane(s)). Though this was undoubtedly about the farthest thing from Everett's mind and not his intention yet nonetheless one result of MWI has been to nudge the scientific and spiritual/esoteric/metaphysic communities closer together.

[neg removal5]

Hi everyone

    If there is a God, which I believe there is.  The belief with God would go this way.  God is a Trinity, a family within himself.  Because of the over flowing of love within the Godhead, it would have been a suppression on the Trinity's love to not have created other offspring to share life and it's love with.  We know for a fact that if God is real that He chose to create this Cosmos with our universe and our world in it.  It only seems logical that God needs to do something to occupy his time, and to express the love within the Trinity.  I believe God is creating other Cosmos, possibly to numerous to count that are in no way connected to this Cosmos, and are unreachable by any efforts on our parts or any other created offspring in our Cosmos.  I believe the only way any created entity from our cosmos could enter into those other worlds of the other created Cosmos's is if God allowed it, and supernaturally transported that particular created entity to one of those other Cosmos.  But concerning all the worlds that are in our particular cosmos, I believe one day the human entities along with other created entites within our cosmos will find ways to travel to distant planets within our cosmos.  There is plenty enough within our cosmos to keep us occupied even if other Cosmos that are not connected to ours are unreachable.  Adrian in his post above is correct to a certain extent, even though I do not know whether Adrian believes in evolution or in creation by God.  Both positions can support numerous Cosmos and physical universes with their accompanying spiritual and astral planes and life forms.  However, only one position is actually correct.  Either evolution is correct, and their is no intelligent designer, or God is correct and their is an intelligent, loving designer who is in some ways similar to us.  I, myself, believe the God view is correct.

[Transducer]

I've just joined Astral Pulse and this is my first posting.

I've enjoyed the depth and seriousness of this and the other threads in "Quantum Metaphysics." I have been posting at a new age site (http://www.lightworker.com) and have been wanting a discussion that is more academic and less focused on participants' emotional struggles.

I was pleasently suprised to read Adrain's reference to Physical, Astral, and Mental Planes. This language immediately brought to mind the cosmology in the Michael Teaching (http://www.michaelteachings.com/advanced_topics_index.html), with which I am intimately familiar. JoWo's description of attempting to imagine a 4D object from 3D observations brought to mind my rewarding struggle with Rudy Rucker's book "Flatland."

"Greytraveller" said "one result of MWI has been to nudge the scientific and spiritual/esoteric/metaphysic communities closer together." I think that is a very worthy goal, and I would like to be a part of bringing it about. As a part-time member of a "spiritual/esoteric/metaphysic community," I'm taking a shot at joining Astral Pulse and participating here.

[Adrian]

Greetings Transducer,

Welcome to the Astral Pulse and thank you very much for your opening post.

I for one will look forward to your further contributions, and to in discussing in depth all of these most important matters.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[clandestino]

hi transducer, welcome to the forum !

General army, I believe that there is more than one physical universe. But I don't believe it is spherical, or any shape for that matter. Let me try and explain...

I've been reading a book on fractals. Its mostly pretty boring, the author kept on trying to "jazz up" the images of physicists and mathmaticians ! Anyway it makes some interesting points re. dimensions and how we measure them.

Going back to your spherical universe...from whose perspective is it spherical ? yours ? Are you imagining a giant beachball ? Walk back from that beachball a few hundred yards; it now appears 1 dimensional, a point in space.

Walk back towards it - its now clearly 3d. Imagine you are a tiny beetle on its surface....it is now 2d !!! get even closer.....imagine you are an electron microscope...its 3d again.

Fractional dimensions and maths solve this by recognising that dimensions are not limited to 1, 2 and 3. Supposing that space-time curves in ways that we cannot perceive, who is to say that the universe is spherical ? Perhaps there is a multitude of realities right in front of you....

....Or perhaps our conjectures will go down in history as bad science !

[13]

Greetings All,

Although I don't claim to be anything more than an armchair enthusiast for physics, both new and old, I have a few theories on the double-slit experiment and MWI in general. I think there are several valid explanations based on quantum relativity and string theory. I just wanted to say that imho the distinction between (multiple) universes and (higher) dimensions became a little confused in this thread - various people interpreting the question in terms of either universes or dimensions. I think it is possible to explain double-slit and particle superposition via either theory, or a third one.

In Ouspensky's "Tertium Organum", a classic on metaphysics, he posits time as simply motion through higher dimensions. Think about that. The confusion of "time" as a fourth dimension always struck me as foolish - it is non-spatial. General relativity showed that the concept of time is simply space, and vice versa. Ouspensky added that time in any single dimension is the result of traversing space in a higher dimension. Not only is this a stunning insight, but explains so much of astral time travel (backwards and forwards) *and* offers another explanation of double-slit aside from MWI. What if, instead of assuming a "second universe" where a particle superimposes itself, we assumed that same particle simply travelled linearly through a 4th dimension, *manifesting* in 3 dimensions as multiple versions of itself in different locations but at a single instant in time. 3-dimensionally this appears like no time passing, but from the 4th dimension this may be perceived as a chronological movement of a single particle through multiple 4-th dimension coordinates. I haven't the mathematical (or even conceptual) depth to delve deeper, and I'm sure the theory would appear ludicrous to a theoretical physicist, but it does give the casual student pause.

String theorists model higher dimensions spatially as Calabi-Yau shapes (OK for conceptualising, but don't represent linear infinity of those dimensions). Depending on the specific Calabi-Yau shape, there are different numbers of higher dimensions. A particular model (String Type IV, I think) says there are 10 dimensions. This would agree with ancient metaphysics stating there are 7 higher "planes" apart from the physical (astral, mental, causal, buddhic, atmic, et al), ergo 3 physical dimensions and 7 non-physical (yet spatial) dimensions. Time in each of these dimensions may simply be a symptom of motion in a higher dimension. Therefore physical time is simply physical+astral motion occurring simulatenously. Astral time is simply astral+mental motion, etc. Yet from within the astral (consciously) physical time seems to be traversible both backwards and forwards simply because from that plane there is no *physical* motion involved, only astral+mental, hence astral time is disengaged from physical time - the timelines are not coincident. This may explain why when consciousness leaves the body during OBE, years can transpire astrally when only minutes transpire physically on return to the body, ie there has been no physical motion binding the timelines together. Of course, dimensions may or may not be fractional, so the various RTZ densities may all incur different time penalties, and so on up the astral and mental hierarchy. Personally, I have never believed in fractional spatial dimensions - it just doesn't make sense to move through the 3.517th dimension, for example.

As for multiple universes, this may be the case, or could they simply *appear* to be "multiple" when viewed from our 3 dimensions - that is, it seems like the different versions of 3d space exist at the same point in 3d time. What if the same 3d space exists in multiple 4d locations, and this reflects 3-dimensionally as multiple timelines? For example, if a 1d point moves through a 2nd dimension, it would seem that infinite versions of a 1d point are created when viewed strictly 1-dimensionally. However, it is simply the movement of that 1d point through a higher (2d) dimension that gives the appearance of multiple "universes" - note the point: multiple *1D* universes, when in fact there is only a single 2D universe....food for though...what if our "multiple" universes are simply the same universe existing in infinite variation in a higher (4d) dimension, in linear 4d time, but this manifests as multiple universes occuring in single 3d time. Anyway, I've probably confused concepts and made a muddle of things, but you might get the idea of time, and higher dimensionality space, being linked as an explanation for many seemingly "quantum" theories. Note that string theory does make these very same claims - I hope neither string theorists, nor general relativity theorists, would feel unwelcome in a "Quantum Metaphysics" forum []

[Transducer]

Thank you for the very warm welcome. My academic knowledge of physics is fairly limited, but I'll make an effort to keep up, and to share what I've learned from channeled/new age sources (please treat this as hopefully interesting hear-say or as opinion) and the NDE research (http://www.near-death.com/  http://www.iands.org/journal.html).

I operate from a model that "13" referred to as "...ancient metaphysics stating there are 7 higher "planes" apart from the physical..." Second I take it as given that there is a part of ourselves that survives bodily death...i.e. all the NDE stuff about leaving the body, seeing it from a height, tunnels, white lights, and etc. is reflective of some reality external to the body and our 5 senses. It is NOT some artifact of a dying brain or similar hypothesis. Third, my guess is that the part of our physical self that reports these NDE's is 4D matter during the NDE itself. Fourth our current physical experience is consequent to a cooperative and intentional enterprise between 4D and 3D matter.

Time is a topic I struggle with. Linear time, changes in the rate of time (duration between 3D events), simultaniousness. I'm told that when people leave their bodies (i.e. their 4D part) and pass through the tunnel, that their energy is increased. Their energy is increased to a point that 3D perceptions of time "straighten-out" to what is percieved (by the 4D observer) as a sequential series of events (a "timeline"). While in this 4D domain (i.e. Astral Plane), one can move along this timeline a little forward a little backward, and effectively select a point, i.e. a moment, to lower one's energy down to a 3D level and then to "return" or otherwise interact here on this Physical Plane. From the Astral Plane many "timelines" are perceived.

In this approach the shape and multiplicity of universe(s) is ignored. What is postulated are energy or vibrational differences between Planes of existence, with each Plane creating a domain in which objects of different numbers of dimensions exist.

[Greytraveller]

Here are a few random thoughts on the most recent posts. I cannot really tie any of my thoughts together into a cohesive concept, but here goes.
a) There is debate about time being the 4th dimension. Some scientists currently believe that time is only a means of measurement and is Not the basis of a 4th dimension.
b) Various superstring theories posit either 10 or 11 or 12 dimensions. All those theories conceptualize 6 of those dimensions as being sub-atomic Micro-dimensions that collapsed upon themselves during the Big Bang. That leaves the other 4 or 5 or 6 dimensions (depending on the theory) as being Macro-dimensions. 3 of those Macro dimensions are spacial, another dimension is temporal (?) and the other dimension(s) are ).
c) Ouspensky postulated 6 macro dimensions. He believed that there are 3 spacial dimensions and 3 temporal dimensions. The higher temporal dimensions can only be fully understood from the perspective of the 6th dimension (3rd temporal Dimension). Ouspensky conceptualized the 6th dimension as curved and spherical in nature (roughly analagous to Einstein's theory that the 4 dimensional space-time continuun universe is curved.)

[Transducer]

I am "convinced" by reading and other experiences that I do indeed survive bodily death. However I am limited by my education to a Newtonian / Einstein "reality." Hence my interest / lay explorations into more modern theories of physics, in an effort to find "proof" of what I'm already "convinced" of.

In that regard, thank you Graytraveller for your helpful posting above.  []

[JoWo]

Hello Everyone,

Referring to 13's post of June 18, let me try to remove the confusion between multiple universes and higher dimensions.  Using a metaphor, imagine a 3-D object such as a crystal.  It has multiple 2-D surface planes.  In fact, the 3-D space of the crystal contains an infinite number of potential 2-D planes with all possible orientations.  In this sense, the three-dimensional universe includes an infinite number of 2-D universes.  By the same token, a 4-D environment contains an infinite number of 3-D environments.  Our senses are made of 3-D material, so we cannot expect them to perceive 4-D reality.  But that's our problem and has nothing to do with how reality is.  There is no reason whatsoever to assume that total reality is limited to the 3-D limitation of our senses.  

Now, try to imagine that your senses were made of 2-D material (ignore the question whether this if feasible) and you lived on one of the crystal's surfaces.  You would experience only whatever occurs on this particular plane and you would be unaware of the other planes because they are in 3-D space, which is "transcendent" to your world.  I believe that this corresponds to how we perceive a 3-D world that is actually only one of infinite possible subsets of a multi-dimensional reality.  It makes a lot more sense, IMO, to assume one unified reality with many dimensions, of which we perceive only a subset, rather than many separate realities with only three dimensions each. (My June 13 post is based on this assumption).

When we talk about multi-dimensional space, we usually try to imagine our 3-D space with added dimensions.  Instead, I believe that our 3-D space is a construct in our minds that helps us to sort out the tremendous stream of multi-dimensional information that is all around us nonlocally.  Information itself is mental and independent of space.  It is like plotting the Dow Jones index on a 2-D surface while the information itself is "non-physical".

Jo Wolf
www.quantum-metaphysics.com

[wisp]

I have a question for Jo Wolf or anyone with some insight about this. I am new to learning of the possibilty of a multi-dimensional universe. I have a tendency to believe this is true. One of my first exposure to this possibility was through some aura activity and changes which took place in what I think was some kind of energy change or movement. I wrote about it in this forum somewhere when I first started visiting here. Anyway, my last dream took on an interesting image that made me think I was being shown this same process in a dream. I was dreaming and in my dream I was making a comparison to something similar in order to understand this dream. Unfortunately I forgot that part of the dream. The only part of the dream I could remember was seeing these birds(ducks or geese)flying off into the sky. The thing I was suppose to be translating were these little dark gray dots (something like a gray field in which this flock of birds were flying in). I put a word to it in my dream, I called it a sleeve.
This "sleeve" field looked very similar to a mass of dots in movement in which led to a dimensional change I experienced in regard to this aura experience in the past. Does any of this sound familiar with what quantum physics is about. I find the subject of quantun metaphysics interesting but quite difficult to grasp the information. Let me know if I'm way off on what this subject is all about.

[wisp]

Maybe I'm in the wrong section looking for an answer for this. I will explain further what I'm wondering. Is quantum physics about connecting the physical to other dimensional states? Besides the language and visuals of a dream a way to explore the secrets of other dimensions, omens and signs are another I believe. Is quantum physics not about this, or am I asking about something which should be placed in another catagory?
Here is another example of my question. Today while standing in the back of my house I am able to see the reflection of myself in a mirror inside standing in the sunshine. I'm thinking of a lucid dream I had some time back in which I could see my deceased father standing outside in the sunshine through a bedroom window. I continue to wonder about the physical surroundings and circumstances perhaps.
A double pane of glass (had more than one dream about this) and my connecting physical things with non physical things. Just then, a loud bang of something against the window pane in my livingroom. I go out front to see. A crow flies off. Is this a matter of coincidense/synchrony and therefore not considered in the study of quantum physics? That's my question.

[Lasher]

quote:Originally posted by Ides315

Hey, deep thoughts.

According to quantum physics there are multiple universes. Also, everything is everywhere until observed. Observance is what locks things in. This has been proven on the atomic level. A proton fired at a lead plate with 2 holes goes through both if looking at the energy trail left behind. If it is observed while going through, it only goes through one.

Best to all

If a tree falls in the woods and there is no one there to hear it, does it make a sound?

I guess the answer would be "no".   []

Lasher

[JoWo]

Hello Wisp,
Yours is a valid question on the subject of Quantum Metaphysics, but I am so tied up right now that I'll have to postpone my answer, sorry.  I don't think that I can give you a specific reading of your dream, but I can comment about the role of dreams in our lives and how you might be able to interpret them. – See you later.

Jo
www.quantum-metaphysics.com

[JoWo]

Hello again, Wisp.

Many of your questions in your two recent posts are profound indeed, and depending on whom you ask, you'll get widely different views.  Let's first clarify the difference between Quantum Physics and Quantum Metaphysics.  Quantum Physics is the science about subatomic physics taught in universities.  It deals mathematically in multiple dimensions but does not attach any "reality" to them other than their usefulness to obtain verifiable physical results.  Most physicists don't believe in a "real" world beyond the physical world.

Quantum Metaphysics is a term that I have coined to describe what I believe is an invisible multi-dimensional reality that transcends our 3-D physical world.  I refer to the quantum because its quaint behavior indicates to me that it straddles both our physical world and the transcendent reality beyond.  By now, other authors are using the term Quantum Metaphysics also

Dreams provide a symbolic glimpse of activities in our unconscious, which I believe resides in the transcendent multi-dimensional reality.  The two realities, multi-dimensional and 3-D, are not separated, because the 3-D is an inherent subset of the multi-D.  We are not directly aware of the multi-dimensional reality because our senses are made of only 3-dimensional stuff.  

Your subconscious is always active trying to scope out possible ways for you to evolve.  Even if you don't remember a dream, the corresponding activity of your subconscious is not lost and is useful to you if you listen to your inner Self.  Of course, you still want to use your rational judgment, but your hunches can alert you to circumstances that you might overlook otherwise.

To understand any specific dream, you want to identify the symbolic meaning of the images, events, and persons involved.  What do ducks or geese flying into the sky mean to you?  What kind of feeling does this image produce?  What does the word "sleeve" imply?  Does it mean a "conduit", or a path to reach out?  Let your intuition suggest answers.

I am no expert in dream interpretation.  I'd rather like to suggest that you read Jane Roberts' "The Nature of Personal Reality."  Quantum Metaphysics leads naturally to the conclusion that the universe is full of intelligent life beyond our awareness, and Jane Roberts was an excellent psychic who channeled many books from a transcendent entity who calls himself Seth.  In addition to the book mentioned, he has dictated two volumes of  "Dreams, "Evolution," and Value Fulfillment."  I personally trust the information from Seth more than contemporary scientific literature.

I am sure that even this long answer won't satisfy all your questions, Wisp, but keep asking.  I'll try to explain what Quantum Metaphysics can provide.

Best of luck!  Jo.
www.quantum-metaphysics.com

[JoWo]

Referring to Lasher's June 29 post, there wouldn't even be any woods except in the minds of critters that may be around.  It takes a consciousness that is limited to 3-D in order to "create" a 3-D reality out of the nonlocal multi-dimensional reality.

JoWo
www.quantum-metaphysics.com

[wisp]

Thank you JoWo. I will continue to try to grasp the concept, it's interesting.
I've been studying dreams for some time now. It has opened up my sense of intuition which has also help me see the line(lack of a better word for the moment)of what you call 3D reality and the unseen dimensional levels.
I'm familiar with Jane Roberts and Seth channelings. I have not read much of the material. []

Interesting about your statement of the consciousness of the critters too.

[Tayesin]

Hi folks.  
Is there more than one Universe, you betcha.  Many years ago I had a kundalini raising experience under tuteledge with my Guides and had the experience of expanding to be one with the Universe.  It was awesome.  After that, I could go anywhere in the Universe at will, as can all people.  One day while zooming around looking at different things, I decided to see if there was an edge or barrier at the limits of our Universe.

After some time, I came upon something that was a little like a membranous skin, as if we were inside a bubble.  It was easy to pass through the 'skin' and look at what was out there.  What I saw was millions of other bubble-verses,  and it drove home the old saying....As above, so below.  I had a good laugh about it then too.

About that time I wondered what was inside one of the other bubble-verses,  and entered the closest one to me.  At first it only felt a little different, but when I began moving further into it to see what was there, I 'felt' something fast approaching me.  Within a split-second, the something manifested in front of me , looking like a weird guard dog thingy.  LOL, but true.  I left quick smart, you can bet on it LOL.  Once back in our Universe and at my Cave, the Guides asked what my understanding was.  I answered, Billions of bubbleverses exist and are co-existing and co-creating,  and that it was not my place to be inside one that I am not meant to be in.  My vibrationary rate is attuned to this Universe, and by entering another Universe I was like a virus entering the human body.  The Guides smiled their usual smile when I get it right.  

So what this long winded post is about, is that yes there are other Universes existing, and our's is only one small one in the field of what is.  Try it for yourselves, it is an awesome experience.  Love always, Tayesin