The Fear of Death.

[no_leaf_clover]

it's believed by many, many people, people who go beyond the heaven/hell theme, that once you die, you go into the astral. robert bruce says you stay here for a few weeks at the most, until your etheric energy runs out. at this point you start ascending to higher dimensions. you come across a buddhic level where there is nothing but white light and a feeling of love, and then a place that resembles a christian heaven where you meet up with deceased relatives and friends from your different lives. mortal men have traveled two levels higher than this, but robert bruce has never been to either of those last i heard, and therefore lacks a description of either without going off of eastern information.

i dont fear death either, but not out of ignorance as to what it is or how it comes (no offense. it's good that you don't fear death). then again i don't want to rush it, because i know i'm here for something.

[KP]

It's quite easy to say you don't fear death.  I was very cocky about death, I thought I had all the answers - "If it comes, i'll accept it.  What else can I do?  No point fearing it!"

Not so long ago, I had a few things happen.  I was very weak and a type of energy was forcing it's way through me, causing all sorts of pain, all over my body, very hot, electric-like, very powerful.. it overpowered me.  And I felt weaker and more helpless every moment.  I was 100% sure I was dying and I could do nothing about it.  I fought with myself for a long time and after so much struggling and upset, I wrote out a note to my family and eventually surrended.  I lied down, arms and legs spread out, completely letting go just watching what would happen.
A huge purple light took over my vision... and a horrible sound, like some sort of deep, low pitched electric noise. I thought that was it, I was waiting for something else to happen.  Nothing happened, the pain died down afterwards and then I began feeling stronger.  

So I didn't die (shows how stupid I am for thinking I would) but it cleared up a few feelings.  I used to think I was fearless, turns out I wasn't so strong.

[no_leaf_clover]

i never said i didn't fear a *painful* death []

[goingslow]

Fearing death and fearing the unpleasant feelings/emotions etc when actually dying are two different things.  Its about not fearing the unknown that death brings.  However the transfer into that state might be scary.

[Person]

I think I was 6 years old when I fell asleep with the question "What is Heaven like?" stuck in my head.  I had a short dream right after - I was in a white cloudy environment, like the typical Heaven, with three saintlike people smiling at me.  They told me "Heaven is whatever you want it to be."  Much later I lost my fear of death(unknown/ nonexistence) with my first OBE.
To be more specific, from what I learned from researching Near Death Experiences, you always OBE first.  From there, you either go through the light tunnel or skip it to become a ghost for a while.  After the light tunnel, the only common qualities are a life review and a peaceful environment.  The details are all specific to religion and the person.  I guess it takes place in the astral.
I vaguely remember Robert Monroe finding one of the highest dimensions, full of blinding silverwhite light energy, angels, and describing it as Heaven.  It read similar to a NDE.  Think it's possible to go up first (higher levels) to ease the transition, then down (into belief-system territories)?

[J-Man]

unless someone has been dead and brought back to life through necromancy, i wouldnt trust what they say about what its like after death. there is simply no way of knowing. no religious "theories" are for sure. no atheistic theories are for sure. we have 100% no way of knowing.

i havent read any of this dudes books, but i could care less. unless hes been dead and back, and i mean REALLY dead (for more than a minute or so) i wouldnt trust his books either.

i agree with the person who said that its pointless to think about it.

either its bad or good. either there is life after death or there isnt. its not possible to know, so why bother thinking about/fearing it?

a lot of people seem to think that "if you dont believe in life after death, then there isnt for you," and "if you think its good, then it will be," and "if youre afraid of going to hell then you will go," etc. etc. it just doesnt make sense to me that you can determine what happens to yourself.

but if you can, then im gonna believe that im gonna stay here after i die and haunt people []

[cainam_nazier]

quote:no_leaf_clover
i dont fear death either, but not out of ignorance as to what it is or how it comes (no offense. it's good that you don't fear death). then again i don't want to rush it, because i know i'm here for something.

None taken.  And I don't want to rush into it either.  I don't think that it is so much ignorance though.  I just think that it is impossible for a person to know exactly what is going to happen to them afterwards.  It's just like asking how a person would respond to having a gun pointed at them.  Even if they train for years to deal with that one moment, until it happens they simply don't know how they will respond.  Unless of course you have already had it happen.  So unless you have had a NDE or actually been pronounced dead for a time, there is no way you can know what is going to happen.


KP,
 It not that I am saying that I wouldn't fear the event itself.  But many have a fear of what happens after.  That is what truely worries many people.  That's the point I was trying to make.

quote:goingslow
Fearing death and fearing the unpleasant feelings/emotions etc when actually dying are two different things. Its about not fearing the unknown that death brings. However the transfer into that state might be scary.

I could not have put it better. In fact I didn't, you did.


J-Man,  I agree fully.

[Euphoric Sunrise]

You're right it is impossible to know what the after-life holds for any singular person, even through necromancy or a person being brought back to life on an operating table. Who's to say one person's after-life is anothers? I don't know much, if anything, about necromancy, but i'm not sure i would fully trust a person i just raised from their after-world anyway, even if there have been major prophecies of their telling forfilled.
All i do is do my best to grow spiritually and live life as best as i see fit. As long as i follow my beliefs and do what i think is right, i'll be happy. At least, here on the physical Earth, i'm not sure about after that []
That doesn't mean i won't try to reach any kind of after-life knowledge or belief. One of my goals is to try and make it to the kind of after-life talked about by Bruce Moen (http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/) or others. Maybe that will provide some substance to my thought.

[KP]

quote:either its bad or good. either there is life after death or there isnt. its not possible to know, so why bother thinking about/fearing it?

Who knows what will happen in time to come.  Soon, it might be possible for you to know.  Pushing the whole thing aside seems a bit too comfortable.  What if insecurity is the only way to find out?  And if you found out with absolute certainty, imagine how free you would feel!  No worries!  The feeling that you are immortal, what a relief that would bring.  No?  Without understanding death, there will always be something at the back of your mind, a very quiet voice wondering.  You might not be able to hear it if you don't want to.  But when death finally arrive, no doubt those voices will be louder than ever!

[cainam_nazier]

No, it was that little voice in the back of my head that said I didn't know.  It was that little voice that final said I was not going to worry about it, ever.

quote:What if insecurity is the only way to find out? And if you found out with absolute certainty, imagine how free you would feel! No worries! The feeling that you are immortal, what a relief that would bring. No?

Free....no...Trapped would be a better word.  "Absolute certainty" implies that it could not be changed no matter what.  That would mean you had no say in your fate.  And the idea of even finding out is all fine and dandy provided you are not in for an eternity of torment and pain.  

And besides there is no way to prove what happens with absolute certainty.  The future is in a constante state of flux and the further out you get the more unkowns get added into the equation.

[Nick]

There are a number of real good books on the so-called near death experience (NDE). Probably, a number of you have read some of these, so I apologize if you have. However, this thread got me thinking that another glimpse of the non-physical besides AP/OBE's are the experiences of the NDE'r.

A few recommended books would be: Life After Life by Raymond Moody, M.D.; The books of Kenneth Ring, Dr. George Ritchie and also Melvin Morse, M.D are excellent too.

Dannion Brinkley's book Saved By the Light is a great read. He died for about a half hour after being struck by lightning. His body was sent to the morgue. Then, someone at the morgue began to see slight movement under the sheet that was draped over his body. There was also a movie about him made back in 1995, I believe, starring Eric Roberts.

Here are some interesting websites if you're interested in this:

http://www.near-death.com/

http://www.iands.org/

Very best,

[cainam_nazier]

I had an interesting occurance the other day.  Some one asked me what I thought would happen to me when I die.  You know I have never really thought about it at all.  So I told him that I didn't know.  We discussed several possabilities, but still I didn't know.

So I went home and found myself thinking about it.  I went through all the possabilities that I know of and have heard of, and still I didn't know.  I thought about this for a long time.  But in the end there is no garentee in my final destination.

Do I goto heaven, hell, any where?  Do I simply no longer exist?  Will I get stuck on Earth, doomed to walk it for ever?  DO I go into the light, attach to some one else, or re-incarnate?

And I sat there thinking on these things, and then I truely realized that I DID NOT KNOW.  And I was made happy by this.

I did not simply realize that I didn't know, but I realized that I would NEVER know.  At least not until it happens, and even then would I be aware of my fate?  From now until the day that I die, no matter how much I learn, no matter what I see, no matter what knowlage is gifted to me, I will never truely know whatis to become of me.  There is no book, bible, or person who can tell me this.  It is not in the hands of man.

And knowing this, realizing this, has set me free.  I will no longer question it, wonder about, or ever worry about it.  It is an answer I can not have, and so I will no longer seek it.

Just sharing my realization of the day.  I hope that this helps some one else as much as it helped me.