This reality IS a dream.

Kalonek · July 02, 2003, 08:13:22

quote:
Why is it harder? Because there are many people controlling it with their thoughts, and they think the laws of physics always work, we cant fly without wings, etc.

Well this would be quite strange i think, as it supposes that at one moment everyone at the same time decided to invent the same laws of physic from nowhere and to apply them without reason. I don't see any good reason for this ... If you can fly you fly, you don't suddenly decide that there is a law that prevent you from this as you have done it all your life.

But this problem of knowing if life wasn't a dream is a constant in many philosophies and religions. Indeed, for exemple in hinduism, reality is Maya, the Illusion, and is only a kind of dream of the ego to prevent him from going back to Bhrama, the universal spirit (roughly said). Philosophers have come to the conclusion that this reality couldn't be another dream, for a simple reason : all my senses agree to describe the same thing at the same moment (not like in a dream, where some senses are even "shut down"), also everything is constant and stable, it doesn't change at each second, there are laws that are independant from us and a logical time. Also we need to eat, etc to survive, which doesn't exist in dreams, where we cannot die really. Thus reality is very different from dreams, and not a special type of dream neither.

The problem of psy-faculties has nothing to do with this btw, as there simply come from unknown capacities of our brain or energy body and not by the fact that reality can be altered by us. I have been practicing tk for quite a long time for energy work training and i feel the energy going from me (my hand or forhead) to the object, therefore it's like a direct contact. I'm not thinking things like in matrix, that reality doesn't exist, that everything is possible etc, i'm just doing what i know my body can do. But most of people don't try so they don't know, because they think they'd look like fools, and thus nothing happens. So saying that we can develop psy faculties doesn't mean at all this reality is a dream. It's just that we don't know the power of consciousness on us (like for the placebo effect - it's all in the brain, but it doesn't mean the pain isn't there, just that we are usually overdoing things. It's all about auto-persuading ourselves).

And for those who don't believe me, go to your window and jump, you'll see it's not a easy as in any type of dream

vikram88 · July 03, 2003, 12:54:23

I've said it before and I'mm saying it again 'The dreams that we have are like DEMO'S OF A FULL VERSION'. Therefore it will have very less features as the FULL VERSION.

Now my language is Symbolic so don't take the literal meaning.

Now it's up to every person perception to believe it.

Jazzarati · July 03, 2003, 20:26:25

Yeah maybe a full-on shared dream is a bit over the top, I was just looking for something to explain why it was harder for someone to do telekenisis when surrounded by dissbelievers than we surrounded by more open-minded people. It was one possiblilty.

But I have being thinking a bit more recently as this as sort of liek a projection to the physical plane maybe, the question is maybe though, what is projecting it?

vikram88 · July 04, 2003, 04:04:33

Well the spirit projects itself.

Jazzarati · July 04, 2003, 05:27:35

Projects itself where?

The astral? The physical? Both?

More info please[

]

vikram88 · July 05, 2003, 12:42:00

Well, actually I don't much about astral projection.

But as much as I think it's upon a person to know whether he has projected into the astral or the physical.

I'll let you know more when I have read the whole article.

Cya...[8D]

Euphoric Sunrise · July 05, 2003, 20:36:46

I agree with you, Kalonek.
We can make things float or move, not because of this existence being a dream, but because it is an innate ability of the mind to do these things without the use of our limbs. People just don't realise this.
Physical existence is made up of matter. I'm no scientist of any sort (i failed science in yrs 9 and 10), but i've people describe theories where this matter is energy and if this is true then, with the right amount of mind power, anything is truly possible, whether this is a dream or not.
Now, just to further clarify the definition of a dream, are the people who are saying this a dream saying that a dream is simply a state where we are unaware of something (in this case, life)?
If that's so then i agree, and the first paragraph does too. That's the goal of enlightenment, isn't it? To break away from the boundaries and the lies, to discover the power of the mind, the truth?
But, if you're actually saying that what we are percieving isn't real, that the objects we touch aren't really there then i'd have to disagree for now.

Kalonek · July 08, 2003, 06:27:32

quote:
Originally posted by Euphoric SunriseI agree with you, Kalonek.

Well same for me, i totally agree with you too [

]

beavis · July 10, 2003, 00:15:26

Euphoric Sunrise "We can make things float or move, not because of this existence being a dream, but because it is an innate ability of the mind to do these things without the use of our limbs."

I agree it has that ability, but WHY?

"Physical existence is made up of matter."

What is matter made of?

"people describe theories where this matter is energy and if this is true then, with the right amount of mind power, anything is truly possible, whether this is a dream or not."

Assuming a mind has enough power, it would also need the ability to control what the energy does at a distance. Methods other than using energy could exist to change things.

"Now, just to further clarify the definition of a dream, are the people who are saying this a dream saying that a dream is simply a state where we are unaware of something (in this case, life)?"

A dream is a place made of thoughts.

"But, if you're actually saying that what we are percieving isn't real, that the objects we touch aren't really there then i'd have to disagree for now."

It is real.

PlanarLeap · July 11, 2003, 20:36:32

i haven't read through the entire thread yet, just wanted to point out something:

if you ever wonder whether you are in a dream, you will KNOW. right now, you ask yourself if you are dreaming. unless you are very confused, you will say "no". when you are dreaming, if you ask yourself whether you are dreaming, you will definitely say "yes".

tried and true, the only difficulty is getting to the point where you actually ask.

PlanarLeap · July 11, 2003, 20:59:20

still haven't read the whole thread, but i would like to point out something:

on the second page, starting with kalonek's post, there begins a contest of realities. interesting, and i thought i would point it out.

i would also like to say that all of the realities presented are equally real... which is to say completely real or not real at all.

Euphoric Sunrise · July 11, 2003, 21:52:54

QuoteOriginally posted by beavis

Euphoric Sunrise "We can make things float or move, not because of this existence being a dream, but because it is an innate ability of the mind to do these things without the use of our limbs."

I agree it has that ability, but WHY?

>>>I really don't know, i'm not a creator. All i know is that i know it's possible to do these things with mind control. The only decent theory i've heard is energy.

"Physical existence is made up of matter."

What is matter made of?

>>>Again, i don't know. Like i said, i'm no scientist. They never asked us that question in science. Like i said, matter could be energy. But then you'll ask what energy is made of. You could go on forever, so i just don't debate how something exists, just that it does or doesn't.

"people describe theories where this matter is energy and if this is true then, with the right amount of mind power, anything is truly possible, whether this is a dream or not."

Assuming a mind has enough power, it would also need the ability to control what the energy does at a distance. Methods other than using energy could exist to change things.

>>>Yep they could, but i've never heard of any.

"Now, just to further clarify the definition of a dream, are the people who are saying this a dream saying that a dream is simply a state where we are unaware of something (in this case, life)?"

A dream is a place made of thoughts.

>>>Thanks.

"But, if you're actually saying that what we are percieving isn't real, that the objects we touch aren't really there then i'd have to disagree for now."

It is real.

>>>Real was a bad word to use. Let we rephrase it. If you're actually saying that what we are percieving is soley a creation of of our minds then i don't agree at the moment.

I hope i made sense []

Osiris · July 12, 2003, 19:44:29

Greetings,

quote:
While to THE ALL the Universe must be unreal and illusionary, a mere dream or result of
meditation–nevertheless, to the finite minds forming a part of that Universe, and viewing it
through mortal faculties, the Universe is very real indeed, and must be so considered.

To take familiar illustrations, we all recognize the fact that Matter `exists` to our senses–
we will fare badly if we do not. And yet, even our finite minds understand the scientific dictum
that there is no such thing as Matter from a scientific point of view–that which we call Matter
is held to be merely an aggregation of atoms, which atoms themselves are merely a
grouping of units of force, called electrons or "ions," vibrating and in constant circular motion.
We kick a stone and we feel the impact–it seems to be real, notwithstanding that we know it
to be merely what we have stated above. But remember that our foot, which feels the impact
by means of our brains, is likewise Matter, so constituted of electrons, and for that matter so
are our brains. And, at the best, if it were not by reason of our Mind, we would not know the
foot or stone at all.

Kybalion.

I would highly recommend to everyone interested in this topic to read the book. Here is the link
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5512

Regards,

Osiris.

rantboi · July 19, 2003, 08:21:56

Hmm, while I do agree to some extent that this all might be a dream, I think that to have those thoughts every minute would be dangerous.

For example, you're walking down a street, and you see a person who yells at you for some reason or another. You think: I'm in a dream. This person is not real, so why do I care? Then, with that line of thinking, you could kill the person (hey, this is just a dream, I didn't do anything wrong! you think).

I think you get my point by now. By believeing that this is all a dream, you could hurt people, and not care about them at all. (Like in the Matrix film, they killed police officers and didn't care, because that was a made up reality or something.)

[Spoiler: ending of Matrix Reloaded film] As for the person that talked about the end of the "Matrix Reloaded" film, which I haven't seen, I think that was supposed to show you that their new "real" world might not be "real" after all. Maybe they are stuck in another made up reality.

That was my 2 cents!

-Ater

beavis · July 19, 2003, 09:59:31

Euphoric Sunrise ">>>Real was a bad word to use. Let we rephrase it. If you're actually saying that what we are percieving is soley a creation of of our minds then i don't agree at the moment."

Its a creation of your mind OR SOMEBODY ELSE's.

rantboi, I must believe what I think is true. I am not a hypocrite. You must have missed the point that dreams are real. It is still being an moron to kill people in this dream.

vikram88 · July 19, 2003, 12:21:21

Misconception, Misconception...

You have not understoog the meaning of the word Dream.

Don't relate it to your dream at sleep. That is only a very small fraction of the real dream ie. the reality as we call it.

Even you just dont go around killing people when you are dreaming. Such dreams will certainly cause you many nightmares. Now if nightmares can be the aftereffect of killing in dreams and dreams are just a fracton of the real dream ie the reality, then thing what will be the aftereffect of really killing a person.

beav31is · May 30, 2003, 08:57:25

This is my theory. If you've heard it elsewhere, I havent...

Dream = astral. Spacetime (where we are) is a cross-section of astral. Anything you can do in a dream, you can do here with more difficulty. Why is it harder? Because there are many people controlling it with their thoughts, and they think the laws of physics always work, we cant fly without wings, etc. But I still have some control over this dream. I can do telekinesis and I do it the same way I control dreams. I have had rapid psychic development since I've realized earth=dream. Before, I was confused, not knowing how to proceed, but then I remembered its easy. All I have to do is use dream actions here.

News:

This reality IS a dream.

beavis

beavis