find cures???

beavis · July 21, 2003, 12:09:18

Maybe there are benefits of suffering after death.

Maybe the earth authorities wouldnt allow the cure to spread.

Maybe humans became extinct before a cure was found so the knowledge doesnt exist anywhere.

Maybe some of the cures we already have did come from astral.

Sinestro · July 21, 2003, 12:28:09

What is the Astral Dimension?
"The astral is the closest dimension to the physical. It overlays and permeates the world like a huge mind net, catching and holding all thought. Its contents are created by the collective consciousness of the world mind. It contains all the thoughts, memories, fantasies, and dreams of every living thing in the world. In it, the laws of sympathetic attraction, or like attracts like, causes this ocean of mind stuff to strata and settle into layers or pools. These pools of thought are more commonly called astral planes, astral worlds, astral sub planes or astral realms."

"The astral dimension is composed of astral matter and is aptly described as mind stuff. It is extremely sensitive to thought and can be moulded into any shape or form. These creations can be so perfect as to be indistinguishable from reality."

"The best way to explain this, mind stuff, is to draw a comparison between astral matter and unexposed, high speed photographic film. When this film is exposed to light, focused by the cameras lens, a perfect image of reality is instantly burnt into the film by the chemical reaction of the film to light. When astral matter is exposed to thought, focused by the lens of the mind, a perfect image of reality is instantly formed out of astral mind stuff by the reaction of astral matter to thought. The complexity and durability of any creation in the astral dimension depends largely on the strength of the mind doing the creating."

Dreams
"This is how the subconscious mind creates dreams: By tuning into the astral dimension during sleep, it can create any scenario it wishes. This is the subconscious mind's way of solving problems and of communicating with the conscious mind. It creates a series of complex thought form scenarios and projects them into the mind stuff of the astral dimension, where they become solid. The conscious mind then lives through and experiences these created scenarios in the dream state. In a way its like a movie projector (subconscious mind) projecting onto a movie screen (astral dimension)."

Thought Forms
"Any new object in the real world is assimilated into the astral dimension over a period of time. A thought form representation of it first grows in the lowest part of the astral, close to the physical dimension, becoming more and more permanent as time goes on. As with all thought forms, the more attention paid to it the quicker it grows."

"The higher up in the astral dimension, or the further away from the physical, the less thought forms, of the physical world, as we know it, are found. Physical things have to soak in to it for a very long time before they take shape, and are found, in the higher astral."

"Have you ever tried to move around a strange house in the dark? You bump into everything, right. But as you become familiar with it though, a mental picture of your surroundings forms in your mind, and you can find your way around it better. The longer you spend in this house the stronger this mental picture becomes. This is similar to how things are assimilated and grown, as thought forms, in other dimensions."

"The generation of thought forms in the astral also works in the reverse. If a physical object has been around for a very long time, it will have grown a lasting thought form impression in the astral. After the object is destroyed or removed, its thought form still endures. You may, for example, in the astral, find furniture in your house you don't have, jumbled up with your own. This is caused by the decaying thought forms of old stuff, belonging to previous tenants etc, still being there, years after the originals have gone."

"Old thought forms do not follow their physical counterpart around when they are moved. New ones begin to grow in the astral wherever it is while the old ones slowly decay. The longer a thing is in one place, the stronger the thought form will become in that place. This also applies to buildings, structures and geological features. You may project into a park and find a house, bridge, stream, hill etc that you know is definitely not there. These may have existed in times past. The higher up in the astral you go, the older the thought forms are, or the further back in geological time you appear to be."

"The rate of growth of a thought form depends largely on the amount of attention paid to it. For example, a famous painting; loved, viewed and highly thought of by millions, will have a much stronger thought form than that of a common painting that hangs in someone's bedroom and is only viewed by a few. The number of thought forms you find in the astral also depends on how close you are to the physical dimension. If you are very close, as in a real time projection or OOBE, very few thought forms, if any, will be found. In a real time OOBE you are not quite in the astral dimension but are existing as an astral form in the buffer zone between the astral and the physical dimensions."

Creative Visualisation Power
"The subconscious mind has VASTLY greater powers of visualisation than the conscious mind. It is like comparing a super computer to an child's calculator. In the astral dimension, during any conscious projection or lucid dream, where the conscious mind is aware, this difference can cause great confusion. The subconscious mind simmers beneath the surface during any projection. All that creative power is just bursting to get out, to create, and it will do just that any chance it gets. This difference in creative power, combined with the lifelong habit of normal frontal vision, is the cause of the "Alice In Wonderland Effect." Let me explain...."

Take these together:

The incredible creative power of the subconscious mind.
The weak creative powers of the conscious mind.
The sensitivity of astral matter to thought.
Spherical vision.
Left, right sense reversals.
And you have a recipe for total confusion.

The Alice In Wonderland Effect
"You project your astral body and look around your room. Everything appears normal, but suddenly, you notice the door is on the wrong wall? While looking around, you have seen this door with your rear vision, confusing your natural left, right, brain perspective. The brain can't assimilate this because your frontal perspective, and the position of the furniture, pictures, windows etc, are normal; but the view behind you is reversed. This tricks the subconscious mind into creating a door where it thinks it should be. When you look at this door, it appears real, even though you know it is in the wrong place. Once it has been created, it will not be uncreated, as that would be unacceptable to your conscious mind. i.e. solid doors don't normally have a habit of vanishing before your eyes."

"When you turn to where the door really should be, you will, usually, find the door there as normal. Now you may have two, or more, doors where there should only be one. If you go through the real door, you will find the rest of the house as it should be, hopefully. But, if you go through a false door, the mind knows its false and won't accept it opening to a normal part of your house that it knows can't possibly be there. So, if you open this door you will find something else. It is usually a corridor or passage, you don't have, leading off into other parts of the house you don't have either."

"From then on, if you go through this door, you are in Wonderland, where everything is possible, just not very plausible. What you are doing, in effect, is entering the astral dimension via uncontrolled creation, through this door you don't have, but now do. Once the subconscious mind starts creating like this it continues to do so at a geometric rate. It has to, for the conscious mind to assimilate the abnormal situation it is in. At some stage, in this creative maelstrom, the subconscious mind loses it completely and starts tuning in to other parts of the astral. At this point of the projection, all semblance of reality is lost and you fade into the astral dimension proper."

"There are many ways this "Alice" effect can happen during a projection, the above example is just one variation. It has been noted by many projectors that at sometime during a projection they seem to lose control of it. Objects appear, disappear, and generally everything gets a little strange. This is caused, basically, by the subconscious mind's vast creative ability being triggered. It starts making and unmaking things, and tuning into other areas of the astral and generally making everything difficult for the poor projector."

"To avoid the above problem: Concentrate on what you are doing while you are projecting and don't let your mind wander. The vision reversal problem can be minimised if you concentrate on your forward vision during projection, i.e., focus in one direction at a time. When you turn, follow the room around with your vision and don't allow it to flit from one view to another. The astral is not a good place to relax if you have serious plans."

"The vast creative power of the subconscious can, however, be utilised. It is an extremely valuable tool if you know how to use it. I will outline ways to do this, in the third part of this series, under the heading: "Virtual Reality Projection" where I will outline how to custom create your own personal astral realm."

"In the astral form you have an incredibly strong creative ability"

"Everybody, without exception, leaves their body in a low powered projection, when they go to sleep. I call this sleep projection. The astral body hovers a few inches above the physical like a balloon on a string, mimicking the sleeping position and going no further. Once the astral body has separated, it is free to create dreams. This is the natural (sleep, dream) process we are all familiar with. During this, you sink into the collective dream consciousness of the world. This `dream pool' settles into layers. According to what type of person you are, spiritual, moral advancement etc, you will tune in to a level you have affinity with. These levels are commonly called the `Planes' or sub Planes. There is nothing wrong with this analogy except that it can confuse things when you try to grasp the whole concept."

"If you become aware during sleep projection you can take some control over it as in a lucid dream, and move amongst the levels. If you do take control though, you cannot return to the real world and function as an astral form in it. You are in the topsy-turvy world of the dream pool or astral planes, where everything is possible, but not very plausible."

"When you do a `fully conscious' projection of the astral form you project into the physical world, not any astral world. This has long been misunderstood. What is usually thought of as astral projection today is better called `Lucid Dreaming' which is completely different."

"Many authors suggest we all race about the universe in AP every night. This is simply not true. You will find the world a lonely place in your astral form and will rarely see anyone else projecting there. If you do see someone, often they are just standing, confused and befuddled, caught in a `between' state of projecting and creating. This is what happens when you lose control during a conscious OBE. I call it `The Alice and Wonderland Effect' It is an effective barrier to the untrained mind."

"In the astral form you have an incredibly strong creative ability, normally used to create dreams. Once free of the fetters of the physical world, you can create an entire world, and often do. This creative ability is the problem, and the cause, of all the misunderstandings about AP."

"There is a natural barrier in AP just as there is with any other form of psychic ability. The `Alice' effect, limits projection time in the real world to a few minutes, in most cases, unless you can control your mind and energy level well. If there was not a barrier - think about it - millions of people flitting around the world every day and night, no privacy, no secrets. This would be a very unhappy world to live in."

"What happens during a fully conscious AP if you can't control your mind and energy? Well, at some point during the AP you will start to lose control over the experience and well known things will be found in wrong places. Doors, windows, furniture; extra rooms will appear etc. Your subconscious mind has started creating or you are tuning into a dream plane. Once this happens it is impossible to know what is real any more. Some of the dream pool levels, or planes, are a carbon copy of the real world. You may tune into one of them and think you are projecting in the real world - until you meet a Cheshire cat."

"One final thing, the Eastern concept of the levels; physical, astral, mental, buddhic, atmic etc are very real. They have been confused though and mixed in with the Western concept of astral projection. They are different levels of consciousness, not planes as such. When you AP you don't raise your consciousness, it is the same as when you are awake. These `higher' levels can only be reached by raising your consciousness, you can't just project into them. It is a different kind of `projection'. I have been in these higher levels but it is difficult to explain them, they really have to be experienced. They are normally reached during deep meditation."

"In order to reach these higher levels, some clairvoyant ability is required. This can be developed, or natural ability."

Frère · July 21, 2003, 15:26:00

Good Sinestro
but you don't answer the question in this topic
and you should quote your sources when you post things you did not write yourself
I call to the moderators!
offtopic is not netetiquete

Sinestro · July 22, 2003, 09:03:20

No Frère, This reply that I posted is not off topic. Smilecollecter wanted to know what you can do in the astral world. So I gave smilecollecter some info that would tell her/him what the astral world is and what you can all do in it. Don't you see Frère OBE's are NOT REAL! They are all just a Dream, just like NDE's are too. Look Frère,the subconscious mind can create any scenario it wishes. This is the subconscious mind's way of solving problems and of communicating with the conscious mind. Some of you people on this forum have said that whenever you have an OBE you can fly around the world and do anything that you want to. Well How would you fly around the world and look at things and go places when YOU haven't actually been there in the phsyical world. I mean how could you go to some place that you haven't even been to, that makes no sense at all.

beavis · July 22, 2003, 09:10:13

Sinestro "Well How would you fly around the world and look at things and go places when YOU haven't actually been there in the phsyical world."

I must have been where I projected to because I read something there (that I had never seen before) and it was the same when I went there physically.

zakaroth · July 22, 2003, 09:25:42

wait a second....

If the astral isn't real then how can people meet up and talk on the astral plane? I am sure that I have read of people doing this many times- as well as tests scientists have conducted- i.e- leaving a symbol on a top shelf, someone projects and tells the scientist what it is... how would those kinds of things work if the astral plane is simply an expanded type of dream?

Sinestro · July 22, 2003, 12:43:41

Well Beavis, If OBE's are so REAL then why don't you to try and go into the astral world and try to talk to people HERE IN THE PHSICAL WORLD. Let me tell you what is going to happen. You WILL NOT BE ABLE TO TALK TO PEOPLE IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD. Why? Here is why, becasue OBE's are NOT REAL. An OBE is all just in your mind, so it is NOT REAL. Oh and Beavis you say that you have been somewhere that you have never been before and read something there and when you did you went to that same exact place in the Physical World. Well how would you go to some place that you have never been to before and know what is there? The answer is, is that you would't, because you don't know what is there, because you HAVE NEVER BEEN THERE PHYSICALLY.

zakaroth · July 22, 2003, 13:14:41

It is indeed true that a person in astral form cannot communicate with a person in physical form HOWEVER if the person in physical form was to ascend into the astral form you could converse, each return to your physical bodies and have perfect recall of the conversation so this prooves that the astral world IS a real place and not some kind of mass hallucination! HAHAHAHA GET OUT OF THAT ONE!

Sinestro · July 22, 2003, 13:31:12

Well zakaroth, What I have read has told me that when you are in this So called "Astral Dimension" or World, that you cannot talk to pople in the Astral World itself. "You will find the world a lonely place in your astral form and will rarely see anyone else projecting there. If you do see someone, often they are just standing, confused and befuddled, caught in a `between' state of projecting and creating." Oh and if you cannot Project in the Astral World and then make contact with someone in the phsical world, then what does that tell you? It should tell you that OBE's are NOT REAL, becasue if they were real then you could talk to people in the Physical world, so it just prooves that it is all just in your MIND.

WalkerInTheWoods · July 22, 2003, 13:39:28

Sinestro, how can you make such a judgement when you have not even had an OBE? You are well entitled to your opinion, but I suggest you be open to all possibilities. Just because someone in the astral cannot talk to someone on the physical does not mean that it is not real. You can talk and interact with others in the astral. Sometimes you will find the nonlucid and sometimes not. Sometimes you may be alone. I suggest you experience this before you make such harsh judgements, especially against those that have had the experience.

RoyHarper · July 22, 2003, 13:39:33

That's simply an example of bad logic.

smilecollecter · July 22, 2003, 13:53:34

sinestro...do you say that oob's are not real based on what you have read or because you have not experienced them. There are millions of people that believe angels are not real and God is not real but that does not make it truth. It is only true for those people until they leave their physical bodies at death and surprise, surprise, they have a new truth. I have experienced oobs as has many of the people on this web site. It is as real to us as being able to touch, hear, feel and see something in the physical relm. Being spirit is just as real as being physical...it's a matter of vibrational fequency. We can't see angels in the physical unless they lower their speed or vibrations but we can see them with our spiritual eyes (that part of us that is eternal)at times of meditation or prayer so intence that you just tune out the physical relm. And as the song goes (by Colin Ray) "That's my story and I'm sticken to it." Everyone has their own truth and we live our lives accordingly.

Sinestro · July 22, 2003, 14:23:03

Well FallnAngel177, I can't beleive you. You are 25 and beleive in OBE's. You people just don't seem to get it. HOW CAN YOU GO SOMEWHERE THAT YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO BEFORE, I MEAN IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE AN SENSE.

Sinestro · July 22, 2003, 14:30:55

Well Smilecollecter, There are no such things as Angel, or God, or OBE's, and NDE's. If you would read my research on this site that I have posted about the Bible and God then mabey you would actually learn something.

WalkerInTheWoods · July 22, 2003, 14:37:37

Sinestro, I do not understand what you mean. Are you talking about people going to places on Earth they have not visited in person before? Using your logic, that OBEs are not real, then it would be purely fantasy. Seeing OBEs as real then it makes perfect sense. You can go anywhere.

And Sinestro, you are the one that does not seem to get it. One of the main requirements to willfully project is to believe it is possible. Unless you accept it is possible then you may never have an OBE. What you also do not get is that a lot of people have found proof that OBEs are real. They understand what you can and cannot do, and found the proof anyway. If you want proof you must understand OBEs and be realistic in the proof you seek.

zakaroth · July 22, 2003, 14:38:49

Sinestro I think I speak for everyone here when I say

HOW DARE YOU!

how dare you 1) Say quite brazenly that a belief shared commonly by the vast majority of people on here is false- that god does not exist

and 2) claim- while ignoring all evidence to the contrary- that astral projections- the main point of this forum- is in fact false and that you are suprised any person of adult age belives in it!

If you hope to use this forum to its full potential you MUST keep an open mind and all you seem to be at the moment is wrapped up in your own world where the physical is all there is and anyone who believes to the contrary is an immature child! I am sorry if I misinterprited your remarks but that is how it has come across to me

Sinestro · July 22, 2003, 14:44:24

Fallnagel177--------"I do not understand what you mean. Are you talking about people going to places on Earth they have not visited in person before?" Yes fallnangel177 I don't understand, why should it be that you have to beleive in something in order for it to work?

Hephaestus · July 22, 2003, 14:54:25

Sinestro, you are entitled to your opinion even though the majority of us know your belief on the matter is false.
However, perhaps through further research you will come to understand the truth about OBE's.
Until then I wish you luck on your journey.

Sinestro · July 22, 2003, 15:03:25

Look Hephaestus you say that what I beleive in is false. Well just to let you know that what you beleive in is not right, or wrong, and what I beleive in is not right, or wrong. It is a beleif, so know one knows if it is right or wrong, it is simply what you beleive in.

Hephaestus · July 22, 2003, 15:20:30

The Earth is round, or rounded and not flat - if a person believes the Earth is flat he/she is wrong even though that is what he/she believes.
If a person believes the Sun orbits te Earth, they are wrong even though that is what they believe.
The same goes for the situation we are discussing - there is undeniable proof out there that OBE's are not just peoples imaginations and yet you choose to ignore it even though the evidence isin everybody elses favour other than yours.
But like I said, good luck on your journey, because somewhere along the line you will realise your belief is false.

zakaroth · July 22, 2003, 15:35:39

look sinestro you are really starting to grind on my nerves-
if you
a)read the last few years of posts as most of have done
b)experienced a full, controlled obe, like most of us have done
and
c)met entities of another plane, like most of us have done

then, maybe, then your views and opinions will be changed to that which, most of us belive, is correct, as it stands, you simply disregard any and all opinions or facts which do not conform to your ideas and I for one find it extremly offensive and irritating, so until you are prepared to accept someone elses opinion as valid, kindly shut up.[

!]

Sinestro · July 22, 2003, 15:40:12

Hephaestus---"The Earth is round, or rounded and not flat - if a person believes the Earth is flat he/she is wrong even though that is what he/she believes.
If a person believes the Sun orbits te Earth, they are wrong even though that is what they believe.
The same goes for the situation we are discussing - there is undeniable proof out there that OBE's are not just peoples imaginations and yet you choose to ignore it even though the evidence isin everybody elses favour other than yours.
But like I said, good luck on your journey, because somewhere along the line you will realise your belief is false."

No they are not wrong, a beleif is a beleif. Therefore it is what you beleive in. So it is not WRONG and it is not RIGHT, it is simply what you beleive in. Now I may not agree with your beleif on OBE's, but that does not make it wrong. It just means that I don't beleive in it, that is all.

Fyrenze · July 22, 2003, 15:45:36

Always with the quarreling! The one thing I will say is the use of "you people" never seems to carry much weight and sounds uninformed or ignorant. And certainly all of us are capable of being either at times.

But it seems to me the real topic hasn't been addressed for a bit.

Maybe people do discover cures in OBEs. But I agree that the general populace would not put much stock in a such a discovery.

Maybe we have not reached the point where cures to certain diseases are possible or at least understood.

And perhaps these diseases are the crosses we bear in life. It seems to me that people who have the fortune(ill fortune or not) to become personally aquainted with terminal illnesses are, on the whole, more "enlightened" than your average person.

][\/][

zakaroth · July 22, 2003, 15:51:42

'No they are not wrong, a beleif is a beleif. Therefore it is what you beleive in.'- I believe that this is a perfect quote for what I am about to say.

Sinestro I believe that your belief is wrong and that my belief is right- I assume in turn that by definition you belive that my belief is wrong and your belief is right.

logically I think I have you caught- If you can find a way out of my paradox that ends in one of our viewpoints coming out victorious- be my guest.
Oh and by the way, I hope this is the last post on the matter and we can get back to the subject at hand.

Hephaestus · July 22, 2003, 15:58:41

quote:
Originally posted by Sinestro

No they are not wrong, a beleif is a beleif. Therefore it is what you beleive in. So it is not WRONG and it is not RIGHT, it is simply what you beleive in. Now I may not agree with your beleif on OBE's, but that does not make it wrong. It just means that I don't beleive in it, that is all.

A belief: The feeling that something is real and true.

If a person believes something to be real and true but there is no evidence to say that belief is either true or false then yes, that belief can be neither true nor false.
A person may feel something to be real and true, but if there is 'evidence' that the persons belief is false then thats what the belief must be - false.

As for OOBE's, if you research further you will see the evidence for OOBE's is extremely extensive - therefore your belief must be - false.

News:

find cures???

beavis

beavis