Everybody must worship Satan!!!

[WalkerInTheWoods]

SWEET!!

SATAN RULES!!

[Varner-LaPrade]

I recommend you guys forget Satan,and read Sicthin.Seriously.

[cainam_nazier]

quote:AND IT WAS WITH A LO, BEHOLD, LO AND LOTS MORE LO AND BEHOLD, WITH A LITTLE MORE VERILY THROWN IN FOR GOOD MEASURE,

That was the best line. Genius, pure genius.

[jason]

yesss...we must all worship the one and only dark lord of hell!

the only one who can take us to the warm,soothing ocean of boiling blood!
































































and hopefully people (ahem...you know what I mean) see the SARCASM in that post.good one gandalf.[]

[Allanon]

Psalm 37
1Of David. Do not fret because of evil men or be envious of those who do wrong;
2 for like the grass they will soon wither, like green plants they will soon die away.
3
Trust in the LORD and do good; dwell in the land and enjoy safe pasture.
4 Delight yourself in the LORD and he will give you the desires of your heart.
5
Commit your way to the LORD; trust in him and he will do this:
6 He will make your righteousness shine like the dawn, the justice of your cause like the noonday sun.
7
Be still before the LORD and wait patiently for him; do not fret when men succeed in their ways, when they carry out their wicked schemes.
8
Refrain from anger and turn from wrath; do not fret--it leads only to evil.
9 For evil men will be cut off, but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land.
10
A little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found.
11 But the meek will inherit the land and enjoy great peace.
12
The wicked plot against the righteous and gnash their teeth at them;
13 but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming.
14
The wicked draw the sword and bend the bow to bring down the poor and needy, to slay those whose ways are upright.
15 But their swords will pierce their own hearts, and their bows will be broken.
16
Better the little that the righteous have than the wealth of many wicked;
17 for the power of the wicked will be broken, but the LORD upholds the righteous.
18
The days of the blameless are known to the LORD, and their inheritance will endure for ever.
19 In times of disaster they will not wither; in days of famine they will enjoy plenty.
20
But the wicked will perish: The LORD's enemies will be like the beauty of the fields, they will vanish--vanish like smoke.
21
The wicked borrow and do not repay, but the righteous give generously;
22 those the LORD blesses will inherit the land, but those he curses will be cut off.
23
If the LORD delights in a man's way, he makes his steps firm;
24 though he stumble, he will not fall, for the LORD upholds him with his hand.
25
I was young and now I am old, yet I have never seen the righteous forsaken or their children begging bread.
26 They are always generous and lend freely; their children will be blessed.
27
Turn from evil and do good; then you will dwell in the land for ever.
28 For the LORD loves the just and will not forsake his faithful ones.
They will be protected for ever, but the offspring of the wicked will be cut off;
29 the righteous will inherit the land and dwell in it for ever.
30
The mouth of the righteous man utters wisdom, and his tongue speaks what is just.
31 The law of his God is in his heart; his feet do not slip.
32
The wicked lie in wait for the righteous, seeking their very lives;
33 but the LORD will not leave them in their power or let them be condemned when brought to trial.
34
Wait for the LORD and keep his way. He will exalt you to inherit the land; when the wicked are cut off, you will see it.
35
I have seen a wicked and ruthless man flourishing like a green tree in its native soil,
36 but he soon passed away and was no more; though I looked for him, he could not be found.
37
Consider the blameless, observe the upright; there is a future for the man of peace.
38 But all sinners will be destroyed; the future of the wicked will be cut off.
39
The salvation of the righteous comes from the LORD; he is their stronghold in time of trouble.
40 The LORD helps them and delivers them; he delivers them from the wicked and saves them, because they take refuge in him

[Nayru]

Oh God (or should I say, 'Satan'?). Bored, were you? ^.^

[Allanon]

quote:and hopefully people (ahem...you know what I mean) see the SARCASM in that post.good one gandalf.

The mind of God is not something to be sarcastic about. I did not write to decieve or mock but to proclaim to you the Truth that is found in our Lord Jesus. Your rejection of the Word is like that of Sodom and Gamora. People were carying about as they do now but did not heed to the warnings of the prophets. There lot was that of fire and wrath. I write to you to help you understand that the powers we fight are not of flesh and blood but of spirit. Spirits of deception that blind the mind from the message I am putting forth to you from the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The complete Gospel and revelation of the workings of the Lord to the fallen.

Do not joke about the seriousness of this. Anyone who has ears let him hear that the Lord is coming soon to call His elect and Chosen from the principalities of the world.

[Soulfire]

quote:Originally posted by Allanon

Anyone who has ears let him hear that the Lord is coming soon to call His elect and Chosen from the principalities of the world.

Here is an example of why I question some of the elements of "truth" in the Bible:

Think of the language here and what it means: his "elect" and his "chosen".  If this is an accurate perception of the mindset of God, it implies that God chose which of us will be his, correct?  If this is true, then God also chose which of us would be left to rot in Hell.  We never had any choice...it was God's choice.  If that is true, then the teaching of a fair "judgement" by God when you die must be false, because if God had ALREADY decided whether or not each person was going to be "his" or not, then there is nothing left of "us" as individuals to "judge".  It would be more accurate to say that we were PRE-judged...prejudice.

Do you believe God would be guilty of prejuduce?  That is a HUMAN fault...and one of the worst ones at that.  So you almost have to conclude that either that passage of the Bible is not "accurate" or that God is a tyrant.  If that passage of the Bible is "true", then all the other passages about being responsible for our "choices" must be inaccurate, because apparently God made all our choices for us.  What about the passages that talk about how we were created to choose to love God of our own "free will"?  Where is free will if God chose for us which of us would come to love him?

I would be sincerely interested in hearing your thoughts on this.  I don't want to "argue" with you, but I want your honest feelings about it.  There are many MANY similar examples...

--Soulfire

[T_Kman0610]

quote:Originally posted by Gandalf

LEND ME YOUR EARS HEATHENS. THIS IS SATAN'S DICIPLE HAVING POSSESSED THE HANDS OF DOUGLAS WHO OPENED HIS BODY AND MIND TO THE TRUE MASTER BY THE UNGLORIUS ACT OF ASTRAL PROJECTION, AS RECOMMENDED BY SATAN HIMSELF; HE RECOMENDS THAT YOU ALL DO THE SAME IN ORDER TO RECEIVE THE TRUE LORD!

AND LO! I DID DECEND INTO THE PITS OF HELL WHEREUPON I DID LAY EYES UPON THE UNHOLY MASTER LUCIFER WHO DENIED THAT HIS NAME HAD ANYTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE MINOR ROMAN GOD OF THE SAME NAME, AND BEHOLD HE TOLD ME ALSO THAT HELL HAD NO CONNECTION WITH THE NORSE GODDESS OF THE DEAD.
I BENT THE KNEE TO THE TRUE MASTER OF THE WORLD AND VERILY I TELL YOU ALL THAT YOU MUST ALL DO THE SAME AS YOU ARE ALL SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF SATAN.
VERILY IT IS EASIER TO PASS WATER THROUGH THE EYE OF THE STATUE OF LIBERTY THAN TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HELL.
I TELL YOU THAT ALL THOSE WHO FOLLOW THE FALSE SATANS SHALL BE CAST INTO THE CLEAR SCENTED WATERS OF HEAVEN WHERE YE SHALL BE TORTURED FOR ALL ETERNITY WITH BAD CAROL SINGING, HYMNS, FLOWING WHITE ROBES, WINGS AND ALL MANNER OF OTHER HIDEOUSLY STEREOTYPED HORRORS THAT THE FOUL DEPRAVITIES OF THE FALSE SATANS CAN MUSTER AGAINST THEE!

REPENT ALL YE CHRISTIAN HEATHENS LEST YE BE FORCED TO TAKE PART IN THE CURSED NATIVITY PLAY OF A THOUSAND YEARS AND BE FORCED TO GAZE UPON THE HIDEOUSLY TACKY NEON CROSSES THAT THE AMERICAN FOLLOWERS OF THE FALSE SATANS FORCE THEIR WORSHIPPERS TO ENDURE.

AND IT WAS WITH A LO, BEHOLD, LO AND LOTS MORE LO AND BEHOLD, WITH A LITTLE MORE VERILY THROWN IN FOR GOOD MEASURE, THAT I DID MARCH FORTH FROM THE ABODE OF THE TRUE LORD SATAN TO PREACH THE WORD UNTO THE HEATHENS OF THE EARTH, VERILY MY MISSION HAS BEGUN!

!

what the hell did satan do for us?!hes the lord of darkness, those of you who worship his presents will be tossed into the the lake of fire and damned eternity in darkness, now is that what you want, do you want to be tortured for life? do you want to be burned by the fire of hell, which i believe is hotter than the sun! do you actually believe his lies he tells you? you are all fools for even thinking about worshiping the lord of darkness. in hell you will get thirsty and not have water, you will get hungry but not beable to eat!
weirdos i tell ya!

[James S]

Gandalf,
ROFLMAO!!![][]

Ok hands up who can spot the members without a sense of humor!

Reminded me of this skit from Rowan Atkinson:

The Devil

Hello, nice to see you all again.

Now, as the more perceptive of you have probably realised by now, this is Hell, and I am the Devil. Good evening. You can call me Toby, if you like - we try and keep things informal here, as well as infernal. That's just a little joke.

Now, you're all here for eternity, which I hardly need tell you is a sod of a long time, so you get to know everyone pretty well by the end, but for now I'm going to have to split you up into groups. Are there any questions? Yes?

Um, no, I'm afraid we don't have any toilets... if you'd read your Bible you would have seen that it was damnation without relief. So, if you didn't go before you came then I'm afraid you're not going to enjoy yourself very much... but then, I believe that's the idea.

Right, let's split you up then.

Can you all hear me still?
CAN YOU HEAR ME AT THE RACK?

All right, off we go...

Murderers, over here. Looters and pillagers - over there please, thieves if you could join them, and bank managers...

Fornicators, if you could step forward - my God there are a lot of you. Could I split you up into adulterers and the rest? Adulterers if you could just form a line in front of that small guillotine there.

Okay...

Americans, are you here? Look, I'm sorry about this, apparently God had some fracas with your founding fathers and damned the entire race into perpetuity. He sends particular condolences to the Mormons who He realises put in a lot of work. That's the way the wafer crumbles. The Iranians, I'm afraid, can't be with us - someone's been holding them in purgatory for about nine months.

Sodomites, over there against the wall.

Atheists! Atheists? Over here please. You must be feeling a right bunch of charlies.

Okay, and Christians! Christians? Ah yes, I'm sorry, I'm afraid the Jews were right.

Okay, Moonies, maniacs, marmite eaters, male models, masochists, mass murderers and masseurs, if you could take a pew at the back - with the Methodists that is.

Now, you're the lot who used to kill whales, is that right? Ah, yes, I must remember - I've got some strips to tear off you bastards later.

Everyone who saw Monty Python's "Life of Brian" - I'm afraid He can't take a joke after all.

Alright now, one final thing. We're trying to implement some kind of exchange scheme with the Lord God Almighty, or Cliff as we know him. Some of you will travel up and have a decade in heaven and we're having some angels down here. Now, I hardly need tell you that in heaven you will be expected to behave in an exemplary manner, so I hope you will do the exact opposite - tear off their wings, use their haloes for frisbee practice, that sort of thing.

Well, I have to go now, unfortunately, but Beelzebub here will show you the ropes ... and the chains, and electrodes.

I'd just like to leave you with a favorite joke of mine, if I may. Quite apt to the circumstances, I think. It goes something like this:

Knock, knock!

Who's there?

Death.

Death wh...!



Enjoy
James.

[Allanon]

quote: would be sincerely interested in hearing your thoughts on this. I don't want to "argue" with you, but I want your honest feelings about it. There are many MANY similar examples...

quote:Think of the language here and what it means: his "elect" and his "chosen". If this is an accurate perception of the mindset of God, it implies that God chose which of us will be his, correct? If this is true, then God also chose which of us would be left to rot in Hell. We never had any choice...it was God's choice. If that is true, then the teaching of a fair "judgement" by God when you die must be false, because if God had ALREADY decided whether or not each person was going to be "his" or not, then there is nothing left of "us" as individuals to "judge". It would be more accurate to say that we were PRE-judged...prejudice.

God calls those to Him that are willing to HEAR HIS WORD. It is not prejudice as you say. If you will not hear the Word of God than you will not be able to test His will and know what he wants. ANYONE can be Chosen that decides to put His Word ahead of man made doctrines and ideologies. Read the verse below for more.

The only Way to be in the New Kingdom is if God ALLOWS us in. We cannot make it on our own. The Word is your guide and Jesus is the physical manifestation of His Truth.

10You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed. 11For you know that we dealt with each of you as a father deals with his own children, 12encouraging, comforting and urging you to live lives worthy of God, who CALLS you into his kingdom and glory.
13And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

[Allanon]

quote:Gandalf,
ROFLMAO!!!

Ok hands up who can spot the members without a sense of humor!

Reminded me of this skit from Rowan Atkinson:

The Devil

Hello, nice to see you all again.

Now, as the more perceptive of you have probably realised by now, this is Hell, and I am the Devil. Good evening. You can call me Toby, if you like - we try and keep things informal here, as well as infernal. That's just a little joke.

Now, you're all here for eternity, which I hardly need tell you is a sod of a long time, so you get to know everyone pretty well by the end, but for now I'm going to have to split you up into groups. Are there any questions? Yes?

Um, no, I'm afraid we don't have any toilets... if you'd read your Bible you would have seen that it was damnation without relief. So, if you didn't go before you came then I'm afraid you're not going to enjoy yourself very much... but then, I believe that's the idea.

Right, let's split you up then.

Can you all hear me still?
CAN YOU HEAR ME AT THE RACK?

All right, off we go...

Murderers, over here. Looters and pillagers - over there please, thieves if you could join them, and bank managers...

Fornicators, if you could step forward - my God there are a lot of you. Could I split you up into adulterers and the rest? Adulterers if you could just form a line in front of that small guillotine there.

Okay...

Americans, are you here? Look, I'm sorry about this, apparently God had some fracas with your founding fathers and damned the entire race into perpetuity. He sends particular condolences to the Mormons who He realises put in a lot of work. That's the way the wafer crumbles. The Iranians, I'm afraid, can't be with us - someone's been holding them in purgatory for about nine months.

Sodomites, over there against the wall.

Atheists! Atheists? Over here please. You must be feeling a right bunch of charlies.

Okay, and Christians! Christians? Ah yes, I'm sorry, I'm afraid the Jews were right.

Okay, Moonies, maniacs, marmite eaters, male models, masochists, mass murderers and masseurs, if you could take a pew at the back - with the Methodists that is.

Now, you're the lot who used to kill whales, is that right? Ah, yes, I must remember - I've got some strips to tear off you bastards later.

Everyone who saw Monty Python's "Life of Brian" - I'm afraid He can't take a joke after all.

Alright now, one final thing. We're trying to implement some kind of exchange scheme with the Lord God Almighty, or Cliff as we know him. Some of you will travel up and have a decade in heaven and we're having some angels down here. Now, I hardly need tell you that in heaven you will be expected to behave in an exemplary manner, so I hope you will do the exact opposite - tear off their wings, use their haloes for frisbee practice, that sort of thing.

Well, I have to go now, unfortunately, but Beelzebub here will show you the ropes ... and the chains, and electrodes.

I'd just like to leave you with a favorite joke of mine, if I may. Quite apt to the circumstances, I think. It goes something like this:

Knock, knock!

Who's there?

Death.

Death wh...!



Enjoy
James.

As far as this follish stanza goes all I have to say is JESUS TAKES YOUR PLACE at the judgement for your sins if you will recieve Him.

[no_leaf_clover]

Satan loves you, Allanon. Loosen up. There are so many sects of Christianity that chances are you're a part of the wrong one and you'll end up in Hell anyway. And your 'corpse' will magically rot in fire. Forever. And when you ask, God will ingore you, because he really can't care less after you're in Hell, and even if he did, I personally think Satan could honestly own God's butt. God won't even show his pathetic face! You know why? Fear and strict security policies that he must follow. Satan owns.

[Soulfire]

quote:Originally posted by Allanon

 God calls those to Him that are willing to HEAR HIS WORD. It is not prejudice as you say. If you will not hear the Word of God than you will not be able to test His will and know what he wants. ANYONE can be Chosen that decides to put His Word ahead of man made doctrines and ideologies. Read the verse below for more.

Ok, if this is true, then how do you explain MY history?  If you bothered to read my posts about my history with Christianity, you already know what I am talking about, but I will summarize:

I spent 11 years trying to be a born again Christian.  I studied the bible, I prayed, I prayed for the Holy Spirit to live through me, I prayed for forgiveness, I prayed for understanding and wisdom.  I opened my heart and asked God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit to take my life and my will and make it his.  

A lot of Christianity made sense to me, but no matter what I did or how hard a tried or how much I studied or prayed, I could not come to accept and worship Jesus as God or understand how his ritualistic murder somehow saved me.  I could never honestly accept Jesus as my "savior" because I view God as my savior.  I don't want to babble on about this, and if you want to get a deeper sense of what I experienced and felt please readon one of my earlier posts where I already explained it all.

The bottom line is I cannot conceive of any way I could have been more willing or more open to understand or receive this one central teaching that supposedly decides if you are saved or not, but it never really felt "true" to me no matter how badly I WANTED it to be true.

It wasn't that I was not willing to accept God.  It was that for whatever reason I was incapable of understanding that one supposed truth (the ritual sacrifice and worship of Jesus as God), and that despite my desire and prayer God would apparently not help me to understand it.

I can see no other possibilities other than that either:

1) God outright rejected me. -OR-
2) Maybe God does not truly require of you what the Bible and church insist determines wether or not you are "saved" (again the ritual sacrifice and worship of Jesus as God).  Maybe I really am a child of God just as much as you, even though I do not fit the requirements of popularly accepted Christian dogma.

--Soulfire

[Allanon]

Soulfire-

I understand where you are coming from. I too once had trouble with Absolute Truth claims and what they entitled. But often what you or I want is not in congruence with God's Will. Whatever the case I am sure you follow an ethical lifestyle that could be considered similar to Christianity. I am sure you dont willfully try to be a bad person.

But the fact remains that there is One God and He is not a flake.

He has a Way that should seem obvious to the world but it doesnt because we are so blinded by sin.

As far as Jesus and His sacrificial death are concerned I dont see how you cant figure out why that is. The OT is full of atonement of sin via the sacrafice of various animals or the blood. It is pretty obvious to me that the Jews were the chosen people of God and were blessed by God above all other nations due to Abraham and his faith. They failed to recognize the True Messiah and this is what gives us Gentiles access to the New Covenant in Christ and His PERFECT blood which can atone for not just one but ALL sin. It is the central theme in the Bible and it comes with constant study of scripture and inquiries.

Isaiah 40:28
Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom.

[Anonymous]

I have a feeling that some people will go to hell, but not as it is described. That fire that is described is a spiritual fire that burns inside you for your wrongdoing, or rather, for the realization of your wrongdoing. It is NOT external- it is INTERNAL. That fire is about struggle. That fire is about your spiritual development to become something better than what you are now- constantly. God forgets no one and would never send anyone to hell forever. I won't name names here for the sake of not getting off-topic, but I think that people are only in hell for as long as they keep themselves there; and hell is not the same for everyone or as bad for everyone. There are different levels of evil and good, and so when we die, whatever level we are at for either will mix together to form the place where we will end up. Like yin and yang. Only the issues that need addressing will be addressed. It's like God is saying, "You no longer have to deal with this and that, because you have proven yourself worthy. However, you must still purge yourself of these things before I can allow you to go on." So you see those things for what they really are.

So the whole idea is to separate the evil from the good, and the only way we can do that is by being here on earth. We are allowed to reincarnate, and that is the only way we can achieve all that we are supposed to achieve.

By the way, I had a rather strange dream last night. I dreamt that I found a meteorite that looked like a piece of iron ore (a brittle rock that contains a clay-like substance which can be obtained by smashing the rock- which isn't hard to do). I decided to smash the "iron ore," and when I did, I made a hole in it. When I looked in, I found some computer chips set up and two eggs. One of the eggs hatched and this green alien popped out, and instantly grew about 6 feet tall. The microchips appeared to be a life-support system for this creature's journey. The meteorite was a perfect disguies. This creature turned out to be quite intelligent- smarter than any computer- and decided to put on a juggling act. It was weird. Then I woke up. I think the alien was a male and the unhatched egg was a female. This could have some meaning. it was a pretty vivid dream.

I should probably have posted this dream in another topic but my internet connection is way too slow to do that. I think I will go now. Bye. Sorry for the weird post.

[realism]

Gandalf... Brilliant, thats all I can say.

And Allanon, so basically, its believe or burn.... Hmmm, could have sworn i read a sentence like that in the 'cult' discussion thread...
And besides, if you actually READ your bible (and i by read, i dont just mean, believe everything blindly, but actually see the truth behind the words) you would see that MORE than half the bible is Esoterically symbolic, and as far as im concerned, alot of the texts, especially the ones written by the disciples, are for initiates. So, your asking us to believe blindly, in something that we havnt experienced? Belief withour experience is  idiocy, and true knowledge can be attained, but blind faith will lead you no where, except perhas in circles... And while were on the topic... The bible. Allanon, are you aware that the bible was put together in 350 AD, this was when the orthodox church gained power, and killed/destroyed anything they considered heretical.. Really shows you where mainstream gets you when it decides to take over.

Mainstream religion is the opiate for the Masses...

[Soulfire]

quote:Originally posted by Allanon

As far as Jesus and His sacrificial death are concerned I dont see how you cant figure out why that is. The OT is full of atonement of sin via the sacrafice of various animals or the blood. It is pretty obvious to me that the Jews were the chosen people of God and were blessed by God above all other nations due to Abraham and his faith. They failed to recognize the True Messiah and this is what gives us Gentiles access to the New Covenant in Christ and His PERFECT blood which can atone for not just one but ALL sin. It is the central theme in the Bible and it comes with constant study of scripture and inquiries.

I understand all about the "symbolism" of the ritual, but I cannot understand how an all-powerful loving God could be bound by the need to have such a ritual.

The Bible talks about how God loves all men equally, but then it sais that Isreal was his "chosen" people and the only reason everybody else is allowed into heaven is because the Jewish people screwed up?  In the old testament they say God tells you to take "eye for an eye" retribution for every wrong done to you, but Jesus taught to forgive and love everybody - especially your enemy.  There are so many examples of where the Bible paints a picture of God that makes him sound like a petty dictator: "I am a jealous God, etc."  Jealousy is not possible with true abiding love, and God IS love...so how could he be jealous?

Understand that I am NOT bashing God here...I just feel that man's understanding of God is deeply flawed and that some those human flaws seem to have found their way into the Bible.  I think God is much much MORE than the Bible gives "him" credit for.  []

--Soulfire

[sstonevenuss]

ok, so i saw the revelations movies at church when i was a kid and it scared the crap out of me, mostly because at the same time, i had stuff flying around my room by itself and the bed shook till it banged up against the other wall, and then the ball of blackness appeared in the corner of the cieling and moved across to the other side...

what is "truth"? it's one of those things in life, that when you become aware of it, and you try to ignore it, or try to live as you did before you knew it, it makes you unwell.
Truth exists to give you something to compare ignorance to.

they say ignorance is bliss, because if you knew, you'd have to live up to it or die trying to pretend you didn't know.

you feel it in your soul when you deny it.
your soul rejoices when you live by the truths you have discovered.

truth is an great deliniator on the path to...well, where are YOU going?

ok, i'll stop now. A.

[Allanon]

One thing that I must add to all this is that I do not believe in an eternal hell. In the original manuscripts the hell fire is described as having eternal consequences which is death but not eternal conscious torment.

Eventually everyone will realize that the only perfect lifefore is God alone and this is revealed by His incarnated human self Jesus Christ. And furthermore just to really get the message across God Himself allowed death to visit His body just to prove to the universe the sick and twisted end result of sin. I am sure there is much that we humans are unaware of as far as other created beings go. Certanly we are being observed by all of creation in manner with which God is trying to show His case that those who put themselves before Him will do the ultimate sin. Kill the only perfect soul in existance.

The Bible is the revealed inerrant, infallible, and eternal book in the original writings I might add that we should follow. No matter what the world around us says and what we percieve through the senses. God is not some inept deciever that is going to allow His book to be fuc$%%# with just because the Romans decided the canon in 350 AD. If God wants something to be done it will be done even IF THE MOST EVIL PERSON IN THE WORLD IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DOING IT. IN THAT I MEAN THOSE WHO DECIDED ON THE BOOKS OF THE BIBLE EVEN IF THEY HAD BAD MOTIVES WOULD FAIL AT THEM BECAUSE GOD IS NOT SOME PENCILNECK.

[Soulfire]

First of all Allanon, I want to thank you for the quality of your recent posts.  I can relate mcuh better to what you are saying and thinking this way and I sincerely appreciate your effort.

I absolutely agree with you that God will in the end absolutely have his way.  I believe God uses all things, even evil, to produce the greatest possible good in the long term.  So far it sounds like we are in complete agreement.

Where I begin to see different possibilites is that I do not believe the existance of an "infallable Bible" is necessary in order for God's will to be done.  Perhaps (and this is only my belief I am not saying it is "fact") it is possible that God would allow the Bible to be corrupted by man because he created another "tool" through which people can learn the truth about him: personal direct relationship with God.  Maybe it is possible that God wants us to learn that we don't need to rely on anything that was touched by other men in any way shape or form in order to enter into a relationship with God?

You might be thinking that without some direct infallible teachings that show what the word of God is (your perception of the Bible), it is too easy to be deceived by Satan and unlikely a person will be able to see the truth.  I suggest that God has the power to use even what we consider to be "evil" to his own glory, and that if he truly wanted to, he could communicate with each one of us in a personally meaningful way without needing a written book.  

The Bible clearly does not believe in reincarnation, so one question to ask is what happens to the people who lived their entire lives without ever even being able to see a version of the Bible they can understand?  What about a person who  was raised to be so afraid of Christians (because of some of the horrible attrocities that were falsely committed in their name) that they were too afraid to "open their hearts" to Jesus?  I may be right or wrong, but it seems likely to ME that the loving God I havecome to know would offer a way that everyone would have an equal chance to get to know him without having to rely on other men.  Again, just my opinion...

--Soulfire

[JoWo]

Hello Soulfire,

Please read Neale D. Walsch's book, "The New Revelations, A Conversation With God."  It provides an eloquent and exhaustive treatment of your own argument concerning the claimed infallibility of Holy Scriptures.  It concludes with clear logic how the misinterpretations of "God's Word" are the root cause of humankind's problems, and that only a new understanding of spiritual reality can solve the present deadlock in human affairs.  In fact, it warns us that human evolution may come to an end unless we have the courage to make drastic changes in our belief systems.  

Love!  Jo.

[Allanon]

quote:it is possible that God would allow the Bible to be corrupted by man because he created another "tool" through which people can learn the truth about him:

From the Christian perspective this would be considered the person of Jesus Christ. If you have a direct relationship with Him and do not have access to the Word I believe you will still know the Truth in your heart.

Since I have been Born again I must add that my life has gotten HARDER not easier to tell you the Truth. Things that I would have paid no attention to before or simply ignored now make my heart race and my soul ache. When the Spirit is truly at work in you it is not some fun ride. In fact it is diametrically opposed. It is the flesh versus the Spirit. Many I believe turn from the faith because it gets very hard to continually have to fight the world system. I still believe that those people that had the saving Grace at one time in there life will be saved however. It is like the parable of the seeds. Read it below and Jesus explains the different type of believers and what happens with them.

The Parable of the Weeds

24Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'
28" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'
29" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "


The Parable of the Weeds Explained

36Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field."
37He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

[Allanon]

This is the best parable in my opinion on those that fall from the faith and why. IT IS VERY GOOD READ IT!!!

The Parable of the Sower

1That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3Then he told them many things in parables, saying: "A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop--a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9He who has ears, let him hear."
10The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"
11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
  "Though seeing, they do not see;
      though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
  " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
      you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
   15For this people's heart has become calloused;
      they hardly hear with their ears,
      and they have closed their eyes.
  Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
      hear with their ears,
      understand with their hearts
  and turn, and I would heal them.'[1] 16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
18"Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. 22The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful. 23But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown."

[sstonevenuss]

ok, you really must take a moment to look at the suggestions some are offering here. do read some sitchen, or was it sitchin, anyway, i've read it and I think you would be interested in discovering some more (scientific)truth to contrast and compare your position.

and read again my post above about truth...you say life has gotten HARDER since you took this position.

and remember, faith is different from truth. Faith is something you choose to believe, especially if you have not seen it.

is it the faith making things HARDER or is it the truth? A.