Flaw in the universal karma law

[quebec]

We create our own world my friend!

Karma is only cause and effect. Your decisions, acts, thoughts are what your future will be. Why blame something else or someone else for your own actions ?

This world is what peoples have made it. When you are angry, YOU are in charge of your emotion, sure you can blame others, but you are in charge of that body. Your world would be a lot better if you refused bad emotions as anger and only give Love. Same with me and everybody.

"A man with his friend where walking towards a newspaper booth talking as friends do, happy to be together. The owner of the booth was in a terrible mood, yelling etc...
The friend was there, not saying a word, and when they lefted he asked: Why did you let that guy treat you like that ?
He replied: Why should I let someone else decide what my humor should be ?

We are the only one in charge of our live, and able to change anything about it. Same with the world.

Theres a lot of talk about drugs, and everybody is putting pressure on the politician and the police to do something about it.
The problem isn't there...ITS PEOPLE BUYING IT. People are the creators of the drug problem.

There's a lot of anger in your words my friend, you will reap what you sow.  Try Love!

[beavis]

"Flaw in the universal karma law
Tell me, why people who act out of best intentions coming from their hearts get the worst fate?"

I dont know if there is a universal karma law. You have a flaw in your reasoning. You assume that if there was, it would reward you for doing what humans think is good. Your data indicates it doesnt. Find the real law behind the data.

[Soulfire]

Hi,

I recently posted in "curiousgirl's" Karma thread some information that could potentially answer this question for you.  I am not saying I am "right", but that this is my intuitive understanding of how Karma works and that if it makes sense to you too, it could explain it:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7207

My opinion of why you judge there to be a "problem" with Karma is that you are judging everyting that happens, labeling it as "good" or "bad".  Why do "bad" things happen to "good" people?  Instead of looking at pain as "bad", try to look beneath the surface without judgement for the growth potential and lessons available to learn from these experiences.  If you look at your own life experience, I would bet there are some experiences that you judged as "bad" when they were occuring that you can now look back on and see where more "good" has grown out of them over time than you ever could have imagined.

If you believe that you do not just live once and then die and it's all over, or live once and die and then either go to heaven or hell for eternity, you begin to be able to see that temporary "pain" and "pleasure" are not even very important in the long term.  You could have one entire lifetime filled with nothing but misery, but if that taught you a lot and you looked back on everyting that happened after living countless "lifetimes", it would seem no more terrible to you than the time you got punched in the nose by a bully when you were 6 years old, or tripped in the middle of the high school cafeteria and were sure at the time "that was the most humiliating thing that could ever happen to me!".

If any of this makes any sense to you, that other post I mentioned will go into more detail.  If it doesn't make sense, then please just ignore it.  

--Soulfire

[alt0xFF]

Me and a friend of mine recently argued regarding the law of the cause and effect (i.e. everything that happens is meant to happen), and the law of absolute justice, which is closely related to the Karma thing.

Here are my thoughts on the subject.

Suppose I put a dice on a table with 6 appearing on top. What's the cause of 6 appearing on top? Its my WILL. I put my will into it - which is the cause of the effect of 6 appearing on top.

Suppose I throw a dice on a table and get 6. What's the cause of that? There cause is attributed by many small factors - the exact position and velocity and spin of the dice, air friction, the irregularities of the table, etc. When many small factors attribute to the effect, we call that - randomness.

Our lives are ruled by both - the will of you and others and the chance of something randomly happening, determined by corresponding probabilities.
---

Suppose the law of absolute justice holds. Then, your karma increases the probability of the good things happening to you. This may or may not be so. However, the price for getting a good karma (be nice and all) is to let the others take advantage of you. Thus, you get bonked.

If, however, you are a bad bastard with bad karma, the fact that it insignificantly lowers the good probabilities (which may, or may not be true) is shadowed by the fact that you take from life everything you want - you rule the world around you.
---

Why should one lead a good life then? I tell you.
We come in this world to learn. Besides all, two important things to learn is to how to love and how to be happy. Learning to love things and people around you is the only way to attain happiness, even though you get bonked by them in return. If, on the other hand, you choose the other way of taking advantage of your life, people, and the world around you, in return you get satisfaction, but not happiness; but you learn how to hate in the process.
---

Is there a law of absolute justice? Do you get what you deserve? Does it happen in this life or others? In my opinion, there is no such law for two reasons:
1. There is no data to support such notion;
2. Why should such law exist in the first place? Why should anyone get what they deserve? How is it even possible to evaluate goodness of any action? What is the need for that? [this is the point where the Xtian fanactics step in and tell me about how G moves in mysterious ways and tell me to burn in hell]

In my opinion, people need reassurance that the fact they get bonked by this world will somehow be compensated in the afterlife - people WANT to beleive that, so they do.

Assuming that astral is the place we go after death, having learned how to love and be happy you will go far [exception: happy loving Christians get to hang out in their heaven at F25]. If all you know is how to hate - you risk being stuck in the lower astral planes. One may argue that this is exactly what the absolute justice is, but saying that would be a committing a fallacy, since the argument of absolute justice states that your judgement is determined by God and/or Karma according to your *actions*, while in the scenario I just described your judgement is determined by *you* - by your state of mind that you attained during the life on this planet.

[Fat_Turkey]

Yin and yan - balance.

Also, people have free will. The person who broke that woman's knee cap chose to do that, and he will probably reap the rewards of that by dying in a horrible car crash or something (if karma is real).

The way I see it, Karma is just as misunderstood by people as God is. Nobody will know the answer while they're here on this earth.

quote:Tell me, why people who act out of best intentions coming from their hearts get the worst fate?

Here's the trick - I don't believe there is any fate. Humankind has a free will, and sacrificing it for a belief that everybody has a fate is pretty retarded. I'd rather know that I have at least some control over my life than none at all.

Later
~FT

[beavis]

When you gain the ability to tell the difference between these...

A computer generated DETERMINISTIC "pseudo-random" number. Appears random to people who dont know its complex formula.

A real random number (if such a thing exists).

...you will be qualified to say we have free will. Until then, it could be pseudo-free and you wouldnt know it. Or it could be a lot more complex than the computers formula.

[Nick]

Hi Tyler,

This looks like a good topic for the spiritual development forum instead of obe discussions. If you disagree, please PM me and we'll work something out.


Very best,

[jilola]

Because the people who are willing to openly give a shot at learning their life lessons are more likely to get hit by the fringe crap in life?
I don't personally believe in karma as it is traditionally defined so your mileage may vary. I believe that the events in physical life should be interpreted against a broader spiritual background. That's why somne gettig th short end of the stick in a relationship isn't a direct consdequence or manifestation of karma but an indirect and should be viewed with that as the context.

2cents & L&L
jouni

[Tyler]

Tell me, why people who act out of best intentions coming from their hearts get the worst fate?

Let me draw 3 examples from real life.
There was this man, he met a woman of his dreams while he was poor and on the street, they were truly happy together and they eventually got rich, everything was perfect until his woman got cancer and died.
Few years passed and he moved on met another woman.
Some years later he got broke and that woman showed her true colors,
treated him like excrement and eventually landed him in jail.
The only thing he ever wished for was to live with a woman of his dreams and it was taken away from him. Yet he still tried to move on.
He had a daughter and she became his reason for living. Once again,
in the most unfortunate circumstances he got betrayed, and couldn't
see his daughter ever again.
Once again, the most important thing in his life was taken away from him.

Example two
There was this guy living a honourable life, never meant any harm to anyone. Everything was going great, he was about to go to college, when out of the blue he discovers he has a blood disorder, he suddenly falls ill and his life went straight down hill, ruined from there and never recovered.

Example three.
Here i can name the person, Nush from British Big Brother, i happen to know her and she is one of the sweetest creations of life to ever live on this God forsaken planet.
Short while ago she was mugged in London and the person who did it pushed her so hard, she broke her knee cap and won't be able to walk properly for at least 2 staggering years and never be able to participate in exercises and yoga.

Now. I can understand why we have wars and ongoing mass suffering because this planet is ruled by elite satanists.
But the above examples were not caused by satan or his followers.
It was pure chaos - luck - that thing that makes you turn left instead
of right one day.
It is karma, don't even argue about it. And it comes from God himself.

What is this horseshit that if you lead a good life good returns to you?
The above examples aren't just 3 i managed to pick out.

It seems to me that the more son of a grump you are the more good luck
you get from above. While the most sincere, loving people get screwed over in the most terrible ways. The universe has a sick sense of humour and makes jokes at such peoples expense. Such practise is as old as time itself. I remember my long departed farther was telling me the same thing.

"every jot and title of karma comes up for
balancing... The cosmic justice system is one of the most incredible
things I have come to understand." I don't think the word incredible is the one i would use to describe this law.

And don't even give me excrement
like they were sinners in their past life and need to suffer etc. because EVEN IF THEY WERE, (but they' weren't) EVEN IF THEY WERE hate only creates more hate, suffering creates more suffering and if it was the case they did prove once and for all THEY CAN live good lives and if they did something bad in the past life it was probably the result of thier bonked up fate in the first place.

What the bloody hell is going on?

If you're gonna say that negative condition on the planet drags others with it then how do you explain that discrimination against those who live following their hearts?
But if the planet is so negative that we have to suffer so bad, well that's just great, we're doomed and big thanks to God for creating satan in the first place so that we could "earn" his light. Yeah what a great way to "earn".