The End of Days?

[Gandalf]

That's nice Gandalf. Anything interesting to add to the topic?
Exothen_

Look Exothen, from your comments its clear that you believe everything in the bible as literal fact, written in stone... that's fine...Really!

I'm just pointing out the view of those who don't quite see it that way, but of course that just a view, its not heresy or anything (although it would have been a few centuries ago!).

Regards,
Douglas

[shadowdancer]

Namaste,
   something interesting to add to the context of "apolyptic thought".  has anyone ever read "Catastrophobia" by Barbara Hand Clow?  pretty new-agey, but she presents a very interesting theory about all the apocalyptic hootananay.  she hypothesizes that some time ago, about 15,000 years or so, there was a global environmental catastrophe, the last ice age it was i believe...but that's not the point...bible=great flood, you know, some great horrible end of the world all life caput scenario, it is present in many many cultures mythologies around the globe.  also there are other catastrophies that she tries to connect to other religious and historical documents that are way more recent, aka=destruction of the minoans.  but anyway, these global catastrophic events have basically thrown humanity back to the stone age.  she believes (and there is lots of archeological evidence to support this); that humans were much much more advanced in technology, philosophy, religion, culture, art etc etc, and then we were nearly wiped out.  after generations of survival living, humans are now trying to piece together what the hell happened...and we all have a deeply deeply buried unconscious racial memory of global cataclsym(sp?)....we have had no way to get over the trauma, cause we dont even remember it, as a species...and so like all trauma survivors, we attack that which we felt hurt us(nature) and try to reproduce the traumatic event so that we may find meaning and integration in our collective emotional body....thus certain temporal rulers seen hellbent on trashing the planet ecosystem and creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.  by the way, much of ms.clow's theories are based on a really great book called "Hamelt's Mill" by Giorgio de Santillana and Hertha von Dechend, which i am making my way through now...so many scandanavian names....[xx(]

[RJA]

quote:Originally posted by exothen

The Bible is a text about spiritual matters, yes, but that doesn't mean that there are hidden spiritual meanings behind the text.

1 Corinthians 2:7 - But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:  

Also, Jesus, when asked why he spoke in parables indicated that it was so that they would hear, but not understand - clearly implying a hidden message that some would understand and not others.

And as for The Revelation being literal and not infused with hidden meaning, that's absurd.  Consider the following passage:

And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, ... And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Do you think when Jesus returns he's going to be in the midst of seven literal candlesticks and that he's going to be holding seven literal stars in his right hand and that a literal sword will be sticking out of his mouth?

Personally I believe that when people insist on taking the Bible literally it is because they are two scared or lazy to take personal responsiblity for their own spiritual growth.  Spiritually they refuse to grow up.  In Old Testament days the jewish people didn't have a concept of individuality before God - they were part of a nation that was covered via a group covenant with God.  

Jesus announced the passing away of that covenant and the good news that we could all, via the Holy Spirit, seek God directly.  Unfortunately, many Christians have refused to accept the "perfect law of freedom" that Jesus offered, preferring instead to be part of pack like the Old Testament jewish nation adhering to a written law.  Their written law is the New Testament and they cling tenaciously to the hope that if they just believe the Bible literally and in Jesus' death and resurrection that nothing else will be required of them.  Because they are spiritual infants they have made the Bible their God, rendering the Holy Spirit mostly idle.  

Unfortunately they have missed the point that spiritual growth doesn't come from a book or from Jesus' death on the cross.  That is the beginning but the radical internal transformation by the work of the Holy Spirit is something we must strive after relentlessly - and that message is "hidden in plain site" in parables throughout the New Testament but can only be understood by those willing to let loose of their written law and plunge into the messy, sticky, vague, frustrating, challenging and yet wonderful process of allowing the Holy Spirit to bring about that internal transformation spoken of in Romans.

[Mustardseed]

Well Firstly maybe someone could have a word with False Prophet. He is PMing me with lyrics of his wierd songs and in this thread he is just thumping his anti christian probaganda in exactly the same way Narrow Path did. So far I heard nothing in the way of actual discussion or arguments.
Kindly Mustardseed

[exothen]

Gandalf,

Not one single person in this whole forum has given any reason whatsoever to believe that the Bible isn't to be taken literally.

RJA,

quote:Also, Jesus, when asked why he spoke in parables indicated that it was so that they would hear, but not understand - clearly implying a hidden message that some would understand and not others.

But still, it does not follow that everything in the Bible was written with some other meaning behind it.

quote:Do you think when Jesus returns he's going to be in the midst of seven literal candlesticks and that he's going to be holding seven literal stars in his right hand and that a literal sword will be sticking out of his mouth?

You are assuming that because the Bible uses metaphors that the Bible is always speaking metaphorically with some other hidden meaning.  Of course there is much use of metaphors in Revelation, but that doesn't mean that all the events in Revelation are metaphors as well.  Jesus warned of the terribleness of the end times and Revelation expands on that providing details.  The return of Christ will be physical and the tribulation will be physical.  There is nothing to suggest otherwise.

quote:Their written law is the New Testament and they cling tenaciously to the hope that if they just believe the Bible literally and in Jesus' death and resurrection that nothing else will be required of them.

The Bible is clear that if one does not believe in the literal, physical resurrection of Christ, they are eternally separated from God.  But to think that "literalists" hope that nothing else will be required of them, is completely false; I know of no Christian who is like this.  

quote:Unfortunately they have missed the point that spiritual growth doesn't come from a book or from Jesus' death on the cross.

Spiritual growth begins with believing in Christ as saviour, it is not an end in itself.  And the Bible is not an end in itself either; it tells us how to get right with God and then provides the instructions on how to continue growing.

quote:Personally I believe that when people insist on taking the Bible literally it is because they are two scared or lazy to take personal responsiblity for their own spiritual growth. Spiritually they refuse to grow up.

And I believe that when people do not take the Bible literally it's because they don't like the teachings of Christ, it makes them uncomfortable, and they don't like to be told what the truth is and how they stand in relation to that truth.  People love being right and it all comes from the Garden of Eden, the "Original Sin" - rejecting God as the authority and wanting to be their own boss - pride.  And as a result, they come to the Bible already rejecting much of the message of the Bible and then reinterpret it however they see fit.  This is an attempt to rid themselves of nagging guilt for not doing what they know they should do.  

The problem is, the Bible states that man's heart is deceitful and sinful, beyond cure, so one can see that this will immediately cause problems with personal interpretation apart from already literally believing in Christ's death and resurrection.  On that, the Bible is clear.

[RJA]

It's interesting to note that during the New Testament church's most dynamic period - the first century - there was no such thing as the New Testament.  Is it coincidence that this is also when we see such a dynamic working of the Holy Spirit?  I don't think so.

It's also interesting to note that when Jesus ascended he said he would send us a helper, - the Holy Spirit, but he didn't mention anything about a New Testament.

It's also interesting to note that Paul never intended for his writings to be bundled up and regarded as scripture.  It's clear from Paul's writings that he thought Jesus' return was imminent and therefore it's reasonable to think that he had no illusions about a "New Testament" coming about.

So, when an official, organized, heirarchical church was founded in Rome and set about putting their official stamp of approval on which religious texts would be "in" and which "out" - the body of Christ on Earth began the transition from a loosely organized group of city churches relying on the Holy Spirit - to religious subjects to whom religious truth was dictated by an authoritarian group of people.  Bye Bye Holy Spirit.[]

[Beth]

RJA,

Well Put!![]

Peace,
Beth

[Gandalf]

RJA_

Quite right!  organised Christianity as we know it today is a purely Roman construct; it amazes me when hardcore christians talk about the 'evil empire' of Rome, when christianity is in fact one of the lasting legacies of that empire.

After Constantine's 'conversion', Christianity officially became part of state policy and the old cult of christianity (the original and best!) died. One of the main reasons for Constantine's adoption of the christian cult and the development of it into an international religion, was that he was looking for ways to bind the empire together and prevent further fragmentaion; a new state religion seemed like a good idea.

Over the course of the 4th Century the empire was steadily transformed into a christian theocracy, where bishops became so powerful they could even bring emperors to heel. For example, in one instance during the late 4th century, Bishop Ambrosius ordered that Emperor Theodosius do public penance for an atrocity he carried out on the citizens of the Greek city of Thessalonika; this kind of thing would have been unthinkable only a few years before!

Regards,
Douglas

[exothen]

RJA,

quote: It's interesting to note that during the New Testament church's most dynamic period - the first century - there was no such thing as the New Testament. Is it coincidence that this is also when we see such a dynamic working of the Holy Spirit? I don't think so.

First, you are assuming that there is a direct link between the working of the Holy Spirit and the advent of the NT.  There is no reason to believe this. Second, you seem to be implying that the Holy Spirit doesn't, or hasn't, moved in such a dynamic way since the NT came about, which is also false.

quote:It's also interesting to note that when Jesus ascended he said he would send us a helper, - the Holy Spirit, but he didn't mention anything about a New Testament.

It's also interesting to note that Paul never intended for his writings to be bundled up and regarded as scripture. It's clear from Paul's writings that he thought Jesus' return was imminent and therefore it's reasonable to think that he had no illusions about a "New Testament" coming about.

And why should Jesus or Paul have need to have known or mentioned the coming of the NT? It doesn't matter that Paul didn't intend on his writings to be regarded as scripture because God did. The scriptures are inspired of God and he brought together the writings that were to be included in the NT.  All the books were completed before 100 AD and were being copied and circulated amongst the churches.  So, although they didn't have the complete NT, they did have the books, and they still had the Apostles.

quote:So, when an official, organized, heirarchical church was founded in Rome and set about putting their official stamp of approval on which religious texts would be "in" and which "out" - the body of Christ on Earth began the transition from a loosely organized group of city churches relying on the Holy Spirit - to religious subjects to whom religious truth was dictated by an authoritarian group of people. Bye Bye Holy Spirit.

Again, more assumptions.  First, the process of determining which texts would be included in canon was a very lengthy process, and one which included the Holy Spirit's guidance.  There are very good reasons as to why some texts were not canonized.  It was not just a matter of "putting their official stamp" on anything.

Second, you are assuming that the Holy Spirit left, or at least was no longer guiding the Church after the canon of scripture. This would prove Jesus to be a liar. I do agree that the Church abused scripture and used it to gain power over the people, but that's all it was, an abuse. The reformation changed that. The Holy Spirit never left and people never stopped seeking the Holy Spirit for guidance.

[shadowdancer]

namaste,
    did anyone even ready my post about catastrophobia???  i know, the orgiastic argument over anything christian is too good to pass up.

[Mustardseed]

The Bible says there will be several signs indicating that we are in "the time of the end" these signs are given by Jesus in Matthew 24:

1.Wars and rumours of wars (see my post above)

2.Famines and pestilences

(consider aids, sarg, the ebola and the expected antibiotic backfire not to mention the threat of chemical warfare never before possible)

3.Earthquakes in many different places

Nr of earthquakes between the years
1000-1800=21
1800-1900=18
1900-1950=33
1950-1991=93
Between 1950 and 1991 93 major earthquakes tripple the number of the previous half century killing 1.3 million people (you do the math and see if the is an increase)

4. An increase of violence

(consider hollywood , videogames, in the us alone a person is murdered every 22 min someone raped every 4 min and a robbery committed every 26 sec)by the time a kid is 15 he/she will have witnessed 35000 killings on tv as well as 200000 other brutal acts such as beatings rapes etc.)

5.The LOVE of many shall grow cold.

(A moral decline happening all over the world divorse rates abortions, selfishness)

I could go on with other signs and we can talk about wether they are fulfilled they include:

False Christs and false prophets shall arise.(this one we see before our very eyes[])

Increase in global traveling

Mens hearts failing them for fear

Increase in homosexuality

Knowledge and witchcraft increased

Cashless society invented

Let me know if you wanna see it but please spare me the rantings and raving and let us discuss these things nicely.

Regards Mustardseed

[shadowdancer]

Namaste,
   this is a thread topic that i am really interested in, and i really wish people could stick to the damn topic...apocalyptic thought!  you know, analysation of the deeper psychological and esoteric(if you say anything because i used the word esoteric, so help me) basis for believing that there is an eminent "end" of all things...christian apocalyptic thought imo is based deeply in the idea of original sin.  it is this deep sense of collective and peronsal guilt that leads the believer to the constant feeling of need for "cleansing".  and since the essential nature of the believer's humanity is "unclean" or sin, i feel one of the direct results of a massive portion of humanity that hates themselves, is that there will be an apocalyptic cataclysm of sorts.  what is really interesting, is that one of the most open and spiritual people's known to have existed, the Hopi, have similar beliefs, as do many other North and South American Indigeonous(sp?) cultures.  there are gulfs of differences...namely, the idea that a person can be "unclean" in their essential nature is unheard of...but the major cause for a needed "cleansing" on a massive scale, is when humans become poor stewards for the living earth.  i'm gonna make a conjecture here and say that this interesting comparison shows us that the origins of christianity are based in the earth based fertility cults of the ancient mediterranean and european world, and have been manipulated by men to create an abstracted, near constant emotional hysteria where believers are taught that they are "unclean by birth" and the clergy give their flock no practical way to make themselves whole...constant interal psychological war.  native american cultures on the other hand give us the message, you were ok when you were born, remember where you came from, care for your relations and life will be good.  is it possible that the constant internal war in an individuals mind and heart can lead to a tremendous amount of focus on "SELF", "what can I do to be better" etc, and even possibly a dangerously nihilistic view of life.."bonk it all im no good, never was, so who cares??"  I DONT CARE TO HEAR YOUR OPINION MUSTARDSEED.  what i understand is that it is not a thread to list a bunch of subjective "signs" of the friggin "end times"....we know you think this, but why??  because the bible says so...and you agree with the bible.  that is all you have to offer.  it you can leave that personal guilt trip at home and bring other things to the forum(which i know you can, i have seen it); then maybe we could have a fruitful debate....now, i am very very curious, does anyone have any thoughts about the ideas presented in the theory of "catastrophobia"  i brought it up a couple of replies ago...

[Beth]

shadowdancer,

I have not read the book "Catastrophobia" so I cannot comment or discuss in any real informed way, but from the info that you have given, it would not surprise me at all.  Plato is the one that spoke of Atlantis, and how much more advanced this civilization was.  The problem we have with this, is the same one we have with so many things of the ancient past--we are so far removed from the actual events it is going to be near impossible to reconstruct a valid picture.  All we can do is speculate.  In my opinion, these speculations are not bad things, they can really help us by giving us a possible "in hindsight" view, but more importantly they can provide us with great motivations to keep the bad events from reoccuring and help insure that the good ones are build upon and secured.

In many ways, what we have today is all that we have got.  This is what we have to really work with, and it is here that we must really begin.  Because the Bible is still here, the bible is still a valuable tool, but that does not mean that the Church or any Church owns the "Only True" interpretation.

I think you made a very clear and succinct comment about why the Church's interpretation is failing so many people:  

quote:by men to create an abstracted, near constant emotional hysteria where believers are taught that they are "unclean by birth" and the clergy give their flock no practical way to make themselves whole...

By doing so, they have no other defense mechanism than to defend the Church's interpretation. Further, the Church itself has thus become the "only True Savior."  I have never felt that the Church offered me a "practical way" to make myself "whole" and I knew in the deepest places of my heart that there was a much greater wisdom that the scriptures offered.  I have dedicated most of my life to discovering this wisdom.

quote:is it possible that the constant internal war in an individuals mind and heart can lead to a tremendous amount of focus on "SELF", "what can I do to be better" etc

And this has been the result for me.  By my starting with the literal and moving past it, to a place within it, I found a much deeper meaning that "liberated" the Holy Spirit from the book and allowed it to move within my own heart/mind/and life.  This "liberation of the Spirit" is what I now understand the character of Paul as trying to convey. This "liberation of the Spirit from the book" has been "my Salvation" time and time again. I hope that my salvation continues to increase as I evolve.  BTW: In Hebrew, the name Jesus means "to liberate" "to set free" or "to save."  The whole meaning of "salvation" has become stagnate with the Church's sole--One True Interpretation, and I for one now prefer to think of the spirituality that the 1st century offers us is a "liberation" from the casualties of earth-bound human endeavors such as greed, violence, destruction and a general "ill-use of power."

In my comments on apocalypticism, I wrote of both an "internal" and "external" meaning.  The internal are the "internal wars" that happen on every new level of greater understanding.  The external meanings and prophecies abound about the "external wars", but I would really like to see more of the "internal meanings" brought forward within our world.  Thinkers such as Jung, just to name one, did just that.  He searched for a deeper meaning of it all, and I for one take seriously many of the things he wrote about. He tried to provide us with a "new model" from which to work.  His findings resonate deep within me. In a great many ways, his search is also my search--a search for a "practical way" to understand the internal wars that the Holy Spirit, God, higher-self, guides, masters, (whatever we all call it/them) will bring about in our lives.  

I made the decision a long time ago that I would no longer be a victim to my own life.  Sometimes I still am![B)]  But, I always eventually find my way back to the "practical way" in which a higher power is working to help my soul progress.  

I read the memoirs of a Nun who, while being raped and brutally beaten, cried out: You can take my body, but you cannot take my soul!  

Okay, enough said for now![8D]

Peace,
Beth

[Mustardseed]

(You said)[I DONT CARE TO HEAR YOUR OPINION MUSTARDSEED.  what i understand is that it is not a thread to list a bunch of subjective "signs" of the friggin "end times"....we know you think this, but why??  because the bible says so...and you agree with the bible.  that is all you have to offer.

(answer)
I dont want to become like you so I will try to be nice about it. I think you are out of order and would like you to calm down and stop being rude. Is your rude behaviour a sign that you are not able t or want to  argue your case, and just want to shut up anyone disagreeing with you.Look back at the first post. I was invited to offer my opinion by Beth in the very first post as I had allready opened a thread of my own. She asked me

"My take on this, however, is going to be quite different than what has been posted so far (does that really surprise you??,) but I will let someone else start. How about you Mustardseed, since you thought of it too?"

She knew very well what my beliefs were gonna be and that she would differ. I knew that too so I gave her the opportunity to post her beliefs as a contrast to mine. (the more mainstream believed understanding of things ). This is why I wrote. You might not agree , I have no problem with that, Beth might not agree, well there are several things we dont agree on so what, we can still talk and maybe sometimes even learn from each other. I would suggest that if you dont want to hear what I have to offer , and mind you , I am not cramming it down your throat nor bible bashing you nor condemning you, well just dont read my posts. When you see my name just dont read it. Pass over it and be at peace with yourself. If you do feel that my ideas and beliefs can be debated do so, but if you want me to take you serious, stop behaving like you do, and stop using curse words.

My take of the end times is the same as it always was. I think there is a beginning to everything and I think there is an end. I do not find it hard to believe, and when I first read the things above I was surprised as I saw ancient writings depicting events happening all around me. I dont see the need to complicate things or interpret but think it could mean just what it says. Maybe that sounds ignorant or simpleminded to you, if so .....guilty at all charges, I never considered myself a big thinker or complicated philosofer.

Regards Mustardseed

[Logic]

according to 'bowling for columbine', violence and killings have only been going down. I think they went down to about 70% or something, as where the broadcasting of such things has gone up 600%. Perhaps you should think about the fact that violence isnt really getting worse, but its only being publicized more now, same with natural disasters.

[wisp]

Hi Mustardseed,
I hope I can help with my take on your list at the top of this thread. I have a feeling that this all may be judgment (coming to terms). In the mean time, life goes on. I wasn't prepared for my judgment day/realization. I had it figured alright until it came to the decision choice of "Who am I listening to?". I couldn't decide. This is in a personal way, I can't say what it means in the global way.
Personally, if I had known more at the time, I may have made a different choice, I had to choose the best answer with the information I had. So maybe that's all any of us can do?

Your list:
1.
Could be from listening to end time ministries or other religious sources.
Astral sounds in the sky sounds like "war".

3.
Earthquates may be astral vibration. A quaking, a releasing on a large scale.

4.
You may become more aware of these things. This may depend on the level your in. Higher vibrational levels cause things to seem more intense.

JoWo made an interesting statement when discussing a dream under the title of OMG in the Dream Section.

quote: According to QM and many trustworthy channeled messages, we create our own reality through the contents of our mind, with what we focus on and what we believe. This goes for our dream reality as well as our daytime experiences. The difference between these two is that our dream experiences give us glimpses of untold probabilities, of potential physical experiences, whereas our daytime consciousness is aware of only one particular selection from these many possibilities. In QM, the world of possibilities beyond our three-dimensional physical experiences is called "multi-dimensional".

To use a somewhat simplistic metaphor, the multi-dimensional world is like a giant department store with an overwhelming choice of possible events. We pick only a few of those events and make them "real" in our 3-D environment. This selection occurs usually unconsciously and is determined by your mindset, which attracts those events that "resonate" with it. In a dream, you pay attention to some possible selections before we make our choice.

 


5.
There is an isolating aspect in spiritual development. You could find your more aware of the difference and you therefore feel as if your in your own world.

Fear of coming into realization. It can be alarming, but it doesn't have to be if your prepared for it.

More acutely aware of those things foreign to your knowing.
If you don't understand "witchcraft", you may take a collective view and it will appear evil or bad.

Things may get more convienient and things happen effortlessly and quickly. Your more in with perfect (knowing) timing, I call it synchronicity. It could be your spirit too.

You may become more aware of things that don't sound "right". You come to a deeper understanding.

Oops, I don't know if your a man or a woman. I'm a female.
I'm not sure if it works the same way, but I don't see why not

[Mustardseed]

Thanks for your nice post. YES it could be all of those things. I am considering wether this is so. As I do not KNOW, and confess I am seeking the TRUTH, I will have to include it as a possibility!!!That said I still lean towards my first post. It is a bit like the saying "if it ain't broken don't fix it" It makes a lot of sense to me and I can see the things that has changed and how things still change. Many years ago back in the 70s when I first heard about this I argued in a similar way. I was a hippie and into "vibrations man" . I never felt the increase in violence 60s and 70s were very tame and peacefull compared with today. I also could not concieve of a cashless society Computers internet etc. But all that changed. My life experience tells me that these signs could be unveiling before my very eyes. I do not claim I KNOW, do you? Are you willing to consider that it might be true??
Regards Mustardseed

[shadowdancer]

Namaste,
    mustardseed, i just wanted to say thank you for being you.  you are a blessed individual....your humility is definitely an inspiration for me.  God Bless.

[Mustardseed]

Namaskar
Thankyou and all the best to you too
Regards MS

[wisp]

Thanks,
I agree, if it ain't broken don't fix it (cause you have to know what to fix first []).  I've been a literal believer from the get go. I'm not about to change at this late date. I know about heaven. God protects me from hell. God will make the change(s). The veils are getting thinner.

I think I know about the inbetween, not about the beginning or the end. Do you have any specific questions Mustardseed?

There was an earlier statement that christians don't want to grow up. God never said to grow up. Maybe the problem is too many man made rules. Man/Woman oppresses, not God.

[Mustardseed]

No Wisp but thanks. I dont really have a lot of specific questions either. I just try to consider the points brought up by folks on the board. However there seem to be to be very few here that have real formulated ideas or understanding of the deeper reason and meaning of these things, and they mostly use OBEs almost as a toy. For most it seems that they believe or disbelieve things based on wether they what to or not, and they are blown about with every wind of doctrine. Its a bit of a mindgame mixed with feelingsgame and at times a powertrip (to use a ancient Hippie term[]). Some people are more serious . A few seem to have a deeper understanding and desire for the answers. Very rarely do people take up an argument and face certain things I write and stick with it. This is a difficult dilemma. I might write long long posts  and the questions and observations will be generally ignored if they are hard to answer. It is sort of a selective discussion where people answer only what they want to, and no one can be kept to the topic. Time delays and all. A lot of folks make big claims and after they are asked to substantiate them they just change the subject, this seems to be a very widespread way of getting the last word [].

I do have OBEs and Lucid dreams and have had them since childhood. In my later years they have become stronger and I found out by coincidence , not Reading books how I could make them start and go away. My main question is this. WHY. ? Whats the plan? So far I have through that been able to relate to this board and certainly have a deeper understanding for folks who have them too and are scared by them. Maybe that is why. I do not desire to go into the Astral all that much though I can project almost at will.
Regards Mustardseed

[jc84corvette]

quote:Originally posted by fallnangel77

President Bush (current) wants to use Nuclear weapons in his war on terrorism. These will go off underground, which to the uneducated person sounds ok, because they tell you that all the radiation will be contained in the ground. But many, if not most, people with knowledge in this field disagree and think the fall out will be much worse than having it explode in the air like those in Japan. So no, I do not think that the nuclear test is over. As long as there are nuclear weapons there is always a threat, especially when you have people in power that want to use them.

Jesus said that NO ONE will know the time when this will take place. So why are some many people trying to figure out the time when Jesus said no one will know?

I guess their wasting their time.

[wisp]

Oh Beth,
I was so impressed with your post in this section. I must have liked your metaphors of your house so well I had a couple of dreams of my own. They were more in the form of a graph or diagram. And the background was a light yellow. In the meantime, I thought I would share my take on my life as a metaphor. A different angle perhaps.

Three Houses
I first began connecting the physical and the spiritual in a organized way the last few years. At least in a way I could form a sytem of thought on how it worked.I come from a family who the parents were part of the living environment. As opposed to say, them living way across country and keeping in contact meant phone calls and occasional visits. Weekly visits, usually on weekends. A way of life really. I lived with my grandparents a  significant part of my early years. My children are following through in the same manner. The three houses I discovered are three aspects of me. This is something I was never so aware of until suddenly things began to shift or change in my real world.

I've had a house for many years. It served it's purpose, and still does in a paradoxical sort of way. My parents had a farm. This was my other home. It was certainly showing it's age as well as my own. My mother decided she wanted a new house (don't we all[]).  So my dad went to work on making it happen. I was quite impressed at their plans and their moving forward with this plan. They even included me in on much of the plan and decision making. I had such hope for this endeavor. The house was perfect. I supplied the lighting and mirror ideas for the place.
Now I had 3 places. Through the years my things had collected at two. Now I found myself with my things collecting at three. Very odd, and kind of confusing, but it worked. To make a long story short, the third house toppled like something out of a fairy tale. My dad died fairly suddenly, my mother was devastated. She sold all she had and moved on. I was left with my one place and life changed for me forever. I had to figure a way to fit my things from 3 places into one. Even before I returned home, I knew it wouldn't fit. I had no choice and had to do it anyway.Many things toppled at this point in my life. My family dispersed, we all went our separate ways. My past caught up with me on many levels. I learned of multidimensional life in my multidimental house (3 in one).
Now if I can only know which came first, me or my house? Or the question may be,at what level at what time do I work to move on as my mother did. I've always had clues and a feel for things before. Now I have nothing in that sense. This seems like a good place to be. A good place on a certain level that is. I'm just trying to figure out the rest. How to move with the least amount of effort.Where to move because I can't stay here (too much work).
Most would say move to where your work is. Well, that's what I'm trying to avoid. God help me. []

[Beth]

Dear Wisp,

I am glad my post helped!![]  

I truly think that metaphor can be turned into reality if one chooses.  Perhaps it is time that "WISP BUILT HER OWN HOUSE"--a physical house that better matches her multidimensional house.  In other words, a house that is not built around other people's houses, but rather, a house that is built around "all that wisp is."  Sometimes our lives are so "full" of other people and things, that there is no room left--all will "not" fit "in just one house."  While "letting go" of the OLD can be difficult for us all--by doing so, we make all kinds of room for the NEW to come in. Pray/meditate on a new path that is yours alone, with the intention of making the "new metaphor into a new reality."  

It sounds like to me that the powers that be (and your Mom) have already helped you get started by giving you a pretty good push...

Peace,
Beth

[WalkerInTheWoods]

I just thought everyone should know the End Days started October 3! Yes I was surprised too, but all the prophets agree. Today I was standing in line at Kmart waiting to buy some new pants and I looked over at a magazine and there it was, bold and clear as day. Of coarse I think this is the same mag that said it was the end of the world on new years every year for the past ten years so ... I decided to go ahead and buy the pants just incase we are all still around long enough for me to have a need to wear them. []