Mushrooms and Astral Vision

themadness · September 29, 2003, 21:40:47

One thing to remember with any pyschotropic drugs, there is always an element of "did it really happen?" Drugs do have benefits, and I'm not degrading them, but when a substance is required to enter another realm the thin line between halluncinations and visions becomes obscured.

But don't take me the wrong way, I too have had feelings of unity on mushrooms. My sense of self almost dissolved as my lower body meshed into and become the earth. I had no concept of legs and couldn't understand why we needed them anyway. There was a deep appreciation and love for the earth. But when I came out of that, I'm now left questioning if my love was "true" at that time.
-Ted

Logic · September 29, 2003, 22:52:29

themadness:
when you put it that way, the exact same can be said about astral projecting, or anything in relation to that matter. Its common belief that drugs just make you hallucinate and mess your mind, but really most of the experiences closley resemble the spiritual experiences. Personally I don't see a difference between asking, was this trip real? or, was this spiritual experience real?

MushieMagick · September 29, 2003, 23:59:31

Thx logic for clearing that up [8D] If you really want to know whats real...lol snack on this "distorted bit of a memory"
http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/24190 Anyway, the only time I've ever left my body was that trip and I merged with my higher self for a brief moment and ten trillion full body orgasms and a backrub still couldn't describe that feeling. When the other side looks you dead in the eyes, able to look back at them and read the future.... it becomes real. lol, sorry to get all serious......blaze it~~~

Chad

LeCosmic · September 30, 2003, 01:41:16

Aw man...i've been thinking about trying ye old Magic shrooms for some time now....your post has just settled the moral dabate....ALTERED STATE HERE I COME!!!

What i'm thinking is that if i get a wee helping hand from the mushrooms then i'll know what to strive or feel for when i attempt to recreate the experience again on my own....sorted....cheer muchly

Nagual · September 30, 2003, 02:36:58

Hum... for me, using shrooms is like having sex while being drunk (maybe not the best example but I can't find another one [

]). You might not get much out of your experience... Also, some people think that it's too strong on the body...

So, my advice: take your time; don't try to rush...

MushieMagick · September 30, 2003, 11:10:27

I really dont think the sex while drunk thing is very close. Its more like dying and being reborn. Anyone whos seen the 3 panel classic of Alex Grey's 'journey of the wounded healer' knows what I mean http://www.alexgrey.com/a-gallery/jrny1.html you cant compare that kind of experience to anything in life. To realize christ conciousness, and to fill you body with nothing but love for the divine...... I dont see a pricetag. They are not an end in themselves, they are simply a means to see the end of the tunnel (death/future). http://www.alexgrey.com/a-gallery/trns-2.html mabey that one will explain it. or I love this one http://www.alexgrey.com/a-gallery/wndr.html the point is.... that is reality and this is the dream we are in now. The 4th/ 5th dimentions that surround are unfiltered pure spirit travel that is very real. The future is in that bag......lol......for real. Meditation + Mushrooms = Find your meaning. [

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Chad

themadness · October 02, 2003, 20:24:48

I really enjoy Alex Grey's work! I own a print of http://www.alexgrey.com/a-gallery/wndr.html (Zena Gazing at the Moon - Wonder)

You bring a good point, Logic. It's hard to discern what is real - from drug trips to spiritual trips. You could say that my thoughts and experiances are so heavily influenced by outside sources (food choices, others' thoughts, books, etc.) that placing drug induced trips below spiritual trips is trivial - that getting power from the mushroom is no different than getting power from bread. And I would agree with that, but I still feel as drugs can open things in your mind and body that you might not be able to handle. Things that can overpower you and leave you in a changed state that you might not desire.

Hey, I suppose Zen could do that, too!

lol It's just some of the harder drugs today have such a purely negative energy that I'm turned off to everything but mary, shrooms, and alcohol.

LeCosmic, do try and go with someone who has done it before. It helps. Cheers!

PeacefulWarrior · October 03, 2003, 03:18:20

I have one thing to say about psylocibin mushrooms and other psychadelics: don't ever understimate them. They truly incorporate the duality of this world and can be both terrible and wonderful, (sometimes at the same time). To say or even insinuate someone would have "a good time" or discover inner peace for sure under the influence of these substances is not wise because many/most are not prepared for the "trip". Furthermore the "trip" is really much more than a word like that can convey. The trip is different for everyone and might drive some mad. The main thing to know is that what they do to you is influenced only by the totally subjective experience of the individual. Therefore, for example, when the mind's eye overlays 3D hallucinations onto your reality and they just happen to be sadistic and violent (or confusing and depressing), what's going to keep you from acting out irrationally and hurting yourself or someone else? Or what if someone couldn't stand a backwards fall into the vortex of introspection while thinking about 12 things at once? If you know what I mean by that then, nevermind...

The last time I "tripped" on "shrooms" was the time I realized that I didn't need drugs to enjoy this life to the maximum and in fact realized that recreational drug abuse or use of any kind made me a less productive and happy being. But some of us need to learn that the hardway...and it can take time.

MushieMagick · October 04, 2003, 01:04:03

Right on madness thats what im saying. The kundalini is not for everyone but many universes lie within for those who want to. That too cool you have the Wonder piece, I wish I did.

Peacful-
I agree they tell you that you dont need anything... thats the best part. But I think its wrong to say to someone 'oh if you start flippin, remember its just a hallucination, because what the 'bad trip' is, is the person not being able to handle a part of themselves (chakras). If they lie to themselves and say its a hallucination you create tug of war with the mushies which Im sure you know isn't fun. My point being people shouldn't take them whatsoever unless its for Gnosis/Magick/Spiritual purposes. Those are the only set/settings. The mystery is waiting to be experienced through such mediums. An initiation.

wizzle · October 04, 2003, 14:37:22

MushieMagick, how many grams did you take and what was the dosage of the kind of mushrooms you ate?

MushieMagick · October 04, 2003, 15:53:53

Both times have been just PS Cubensis that had people who had alot of experience growing them. Its a belife just from talking to people on shroomery.org that mushrooms are more grower dependent on quality whereas cannabis' quality comes from genetics. The obvious execption would be Stropharias!!! Never had them but i know their power. Many indians wont eat that specific variety and some others wont consume anything but them. I usually fast all day and eat a lite meal and take a cleansing shower, afterwhich 4-5 grams is the usual. I can never seem to find them around here but as of yesterday I was informed of thier return to my area in Cali 8DDDD. Next week well see how far I can fall into the depths without dying. Actually I took someone really really bad to the forest and ate and then I brought them into my circle. They brought very bad energy into the area and I (trying to pry him out of his little personal hell) kept telling him to let go and get up. Then (I had another friend their luckily) as I was paying attention to my friend, this dude starts to grab onto me and his demon was entering my body (we realized how cold it was and had no more warmth in a huge forest peaking, all of us hudled) EVERYTIME I switched my attention to my friend, his demon would telepathicly demand "NO, PAY ATTENTION TO MEEE" You gotta realize I am made of music. I was in a bad situation without any music (wheres Maynard when you need him, lmao) So there was this verbal battle of sorts in which I have never been in more of a serious hell realm. The once beautiful moon became very red and I COULD NOT focus or concentrate on ANYTHING. Everytime I would think 1 though... the negative energy would delibrately confuse me. When we got back this dude (not realizing what had happened) asked me if I was ok!!! I was sick for a day and then the next, only 2 days after the worst/greatest learning experiennce, I experienced the union and a connection to the divine. I knew why it (the so called bad trip) had happened, so with such knowledge I went back for a rematch and I thank the force I did....lol

Life Is A Trip

Chad

TheSeeker · October 09, 2003, 13:25:50

I'm going to trip again soon. Not sure what kind it is I get, but a friend and my girlfriends wants to try them (they've never done them) because she has been getting into the metaphysical side of things with me (we both just received a reiki attunement), and has heard all my tripping stories and wants to try.

Anyhow for first timers, I'm going to give them 2 caps and about 3 stems a piece, if after an hour they're not feeling much, i'll give them another cap. I usually eat about 1/2 of an 1/8th, and that is enough to trip balls as we say round here. Definately don't want to give too much to someone for their first time. I wigged out the first time I ever tripped, but I don't regret the experience.

By the way TOOL(Maynard) pointed me down my spiritual path. And, there's nothing like listening to Lateralus while shrooming.

Oh by the way. For first timers. Do not rush this experience. My recommendations, is to wait for a day where it is beautiful outside. And, be somewhere where you don't have to deal with anyone who you don't want to know what you're doing. It can be easy to be set on a bad train of thought and you don't want that. I always thoroughly enjoy being outside. Dakrness can be a little scary sometimes.

Kajz · October 12, 2003, 04:51:21

I'm sorry, I don't believe it, it also doesn't have anything to do with an OBE.. it is just killing braincells, and in my oppinion, it's nothing but one big illusion.. illusions can feel real, because in that state, you don't know better. this does not mean I don't believe in OBE (I never experienced an OBE before, I'm just a beginner which started just 3 weeks ago). So I just want to experience an OBE without any drugs.

I only want to get "real" instead of being a junk. [

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Logic · October 12, 2003, 16:31:17

Kajz, where have you perceived this idea that mushrooms kill braincells, this is something unheard of to me. Usually things like that and "lsd makes your brain leak blood" is some garbage rumor of propaganda started by government parties or people to scare uneducated kids away from drugs.

I may not know what your idea of "real" is, but I see no difference between doing OBEing on substance or natural, except for the fact that when you do it naturally your acctually learning something. Your mind, body and soul are interpreting external information in a different way than you normally would, so the idea that one is more real than the other dosent exactly make sense to me.

In my opinion, reality is what you make it, and how you perceive it.

TheSeeker · October 14, 2003, 09:45:47

Then you've never done it Kajz. You can read about it and inform yourself, but you have no clue until you do it, it's not like drinking or smoking or anything, not even close.

If you want some good reading on the topic, check out 'BE HERE NOW' or pick up The Sacred Mirrors by Alex Grey. Also search the net for people's stories, 1000s of people in different countries aren't collaborating to make this stuff up.

Syke · October 15, 2003, 05:19:26

i personally believe you are all just hallucinating, you can argue that as much as you want and it wont change my mind as you are on drugs at the time and have no idea...
yeah it might feel good but you seem to not want to accept the fact that there are consequences.

and ok so what if im wrong?... well then its the weaks way and you are no further spiritually as you are dependent on drugs to get there.

i only have respect for those who put in the work to get what they want and dont resort to the easy way out.

Yeah it may seem harsh.. but why pull punches on what i feel
-Syke

TheSeeker · October 15, 2003, 10:01:09

I do it maybe twice a year. I'm not dependent on it personally. But as far as it being hallucination, sure some of it is, just as some of what you see in the astral is.

All of it being just my imagination though? Nope. My friend and I were finishing each others thoughts outloud, things that had nothing to do with what was going on on the outside. And, discussed when sober to confirm that I wasn't creating it all in my head.

My other friend, who is not in the least bit spiritual, the first time we ever tripped, he said for about 3 hours he felt like his back was to the ceiling and he was watching everything from above us, could see himself laying there on the floor and everything.

I do not think people should depend on drugs or do them often if at all. But, you cannot say that it's all BS, there are plenty of books out there on the subject. Check out some of Alex Grey's work, read Be Here Now, then there's DMT the spirit molecule (something like that).

Logic · October 15, 2003, 10:09:40

Sure syke, I agree with your descision towards drug use, but have you acctually taken any initiative towards seeking the alternative possibilities? How do we not know your the only one whos hallucinating when you try and project, after all your the one whos stimulating the seretonin and melatonin productoin in your brain, so why not? Yes, many people have had spiritual experiences accompanying drug use, but that might not necisarilly be the motivation behind it.
Some people choose to use them for fun, others for health, spirituality and sometimes, abuse. Just because some one uses drugs dosent mean they dont put work into practicing their spirituality, I for one do both and I am happy with my progression.

shaman · October 15, 2003, 11:33:10

There are mushrooms, poisoneous mushrooms and mushrooms that stayed too long out of the fridge - these last one are poisonous too...

ANy how, just to add a few words, Mandrake (like in Harry Potter) is a plant that is well known to induce what is clinically called hallucinations. And that's how the witches are flying, by getting intoxicated with Mandrakes and possibly having induced OBEs. One of the explanation is that these plants are able to produce an OBE. This comes to the next step which is actually that some people using other drugs do actually (when they overdose) induce what seem to be OBE. I have read some accounts of such "experiences" on the site of NDE, since these people were actually in a "coma" state, and while in the coma they saw themselves from outside their body. One account is about this guy who freaks out when he realised he is kind of dead. Eventually He calls for help and here comes to the rescue his Guardian (higher self?) and takes him for a ride in the astral realm... All these seems to be more like OBE (though clinically classified as halucinations), usually very close to the physical plane.

And again and again let me refer you to the NDE site, where the initial start of the NDE is actually almost always an OBE in the real plane http://www.iands.org/

However, I do agree with Sike, that I would rather OBE all by myself without any "external" assistance ...

As to the potential physical harm these can cause,.. I do not know, but I'll give as answer what I have heard from a physician talking about the exctasy pills "these chemicals are never found naturally in the human body, not even in very small amounts and none knows what they do to the body, so I would not try that on myself for any reason on earth even if you give me 10,000 dolllars"... just by precaution.

I like mushrooms with roasted walnuts and tofu, slightly fried, over brown rice with some dill and raisins too... delicious.

Shaman The Dreamer

Logic · October 15, 2003, 17:13:25

People eat meat, but the human body dosent digest its own 'meat'.

themadness · October 16, 2003, 19:22:12

I think Logic brought up a really good point here.

quote:
Some people choose to use them for fun, others for health, spirituality and sometimes, abuse. Just because some one uses drugs dosent mean they dont put work into practicing their spirituality, I for one do both and I am happy with my progression

I think we should concern ourselves with looking at the bigger picture and not being as judgmental. Remember what HH Dalai Lama said that there are many paths up the mountain. Granted, drugs may lead to abuse and turn from a guide to a slipping point.

Though this may seem to rationalize use, I feel that if psychotropic mushrooms evolved, they did so for a reason - whether it be as a defense mechanism to stop animals from eating them or as a tool to assist consciousness. When you stop and think about any "drug", it is hard to see what substance isn't a drug. What about the tea you drink? The stimulants released when you bite into your favorite food? Where do they fit in the scheme of things?

TheSeeker · October 17, 2003, 08:36:25

I am on the same page with Logic. The only drug I will still do is mushrooms and maybe acid again (but this is very rare). But, I do them because of the spiritual aspects, and I do attempt to progress naturally, without an aid or whatever you want to call it.

LSD is what basically set me on the path to seek spiritual truth.

Oh, and ecstacy is nothing like shrooms, nada.

MushieMagick · October 19, 2003, 22:20:50

ok,

Logic and Seeker.... Much Love.

I would really like to expand on this idea of the word drug. TV IS A DRUG. Believe it or not. Money is God to most. A drug is something external that changes internal processing. When you bond with a plant such as the sacred mushroom you enter directly underneeth the Great Pyramid, inside all the coffins ever known. You dive into their minds as well as the Mayan and learn of time being different from what were taught. We are poised for full on evolution awakening and were using the generalization "drug"?? The mushroom is no shortcut. LMFAO!!! This is the last thing ever. It is but a complex look at our potential and a kiss of the Universal Mind and heaven. Let me ask you all something. If your a higher mind and you want these simple humans to understand complex natures of the universe do you write a book watered down with mans ego or do you create unusually looking plants to !!!SHOW!!! them how to evolve through the medium of Uncondional Divine Love and Music, the manifestation of the Pure Harmony? The Mushroom is initiating yourself into the Higher Mysteries. Look....I mean LOOK at Alex Grey's work. Feel his work with your heart. LISTEN to TooL. You dont have to like them, but what Im saying is look and listen to whats happening. That other side reached by the mushroom is blending with our dimension as we speak. We are intering the Fifth World and I can smell the transformation on the horizon. What im telling you is as real as you "can ever suppose" and these plants are ready for us to start to tune in to the new frequency and tune to the light. ~Watch the Weather change, Mention this to me.....Mention something, mention anythiiiiinnnnngg....... Watch the weather change~ - TooL

MushieMagick · October 19, 2003, 22:40:51

ok,

Logic and Seeker...Much Love!!!

First of all, there are no 'shortcuts'. Our language binds us to such meanings and terms that are not important whatsoever. The mushrooms simply initiates one to the higher mysteries. Watch the TooL - 'Parabola' video and that will be the last video you ever need to see. It's time for us humans to change from our material lead into spiritual gold of awakening to the Divine Music of the Cosmos that has always been with us. Think about it. Check out TooL/APC, Alex Grey, Bill Hicks, Tim Leary, and just the flow of our entire history bubbleling at the suface. The other side is bleeding over. Psychedelics are a trip to the Great Pyramids. They are lying in the coffins and listening to the Elders sing. But soon.....very soon, you will not need psychedelics!! They have shown me this. Look at Alex Grey, Bill Hicks, Tim Leary, Terence McKenna, and TooL/APC. The future is here. We are creating it. That is what the mushrooms says "The kindom of heaven is within you. If you choose to let go, I will take you beyond the heavens" We are on this earth to connect to other forms of life ('symbiosis') and personally I think generalizing "drugs" is at the top of the temple thats collapsing as we speak. Its an illusion that you need deprive yourself of the Food of the Gods, if your truly seeking. Its so great to see people who feel what im saying. But read what I originally posted. I've gave an experience that was more real than me typing this, and what I was wondering was how this ties into the astral or OBE as 'shaman' was heading towards. I KNOW they tie in, I'd just like to hear how one thinks seeing a million divine puzzle pieces flow in golden light to the Mystery with LUCID vision, could tie into the astral. To sit for 4 hours in full vision of the divine play of the cosmos, while letting your heart guide you to leave your body and connect to your higher self....um...... can you put a price on that???

MushieMagick · October 19, 2003, 22:43:05

cool....it pasted both things I wrote....right on.... does anyone understand what im trying to say?

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Mushrooms and Astral Vision