Matrix enigma

Logic · October 26, 2003, 15:05:23

the creator, as in the wachowski brothers?

Mustardseed · October 26, 2003, 15:20:38

Yes I think that was the name

James S · October 26, 2003, 19:36:34

Doesn't sound like it really fits the profile of either of these two. They're like big kids - Anime / Manga junkies that had a great idea of turning some Manga concepts into a movie. The Matrix basically started out as a comic these two came up with. If you think The Matrix is out there in terms existentialism, you should see some of the Sci-Fi Manga stuff that comes out of Japan - totally BENT!

They've become one of the most highly acclaimed movie writers in Hollywood at the moment. When leading SFX, stunt, and other type of movie people were asked to help make Reloaded and Revolutions, they all all jumped at the chance without question.

Not that I claim any kind of personal knowledge of these guys, but isn't it just all too typical of the media to try and drag some successful figure like one of the Wachowski's down into the mud?

As to the teachings of The Matrix - its Sci-Fi, and its damn good entertainment! It's a great story because it has so many different levels, but that's all it is - as story, fiction. Why spoil it by trying to turn it into some kind of reality?

Down with the gutter-press tabloids and corrupt media barons! [}:)]

James.

beavis · November 03, 2003, 12:20:36

James S Why spoil it by trying to turn it into some kind of reality?

I'm not saying it is reality, but can you prove its not?

TheSeeker · November 03, 2003, 13:18:14

I thought the Matrix made an accurate analogy of us being 'trapped' in physical reality. We think we're running around but we're just sitting in our little pod creating all of this with our conciousness.

Except, getting out of the matrix, would be like the realization that there is more than just the physical. (as opposed to the movies waking up in a different physical world)

-not sure if that made any sense...

The AlphaOmega · November 03, 2003, 13:27:57

Just a movie man, meant to entertain. Don't go changing your life because of it.

beavis · November 03, 2003, 14:33:03

If this reality really is in a matrix (unlikely), then it is most likely that astral is part of the program because astral is directly accessible to us here and I dont think the programmer of the matrix would intentionally give us access to the inner workings of the matrix. There might not really be an astral outside the matrix, if we're in a matrix.

The AlphaOmega · November 03, 2003, 15:58:40

You guys can't be serious. You're actually considering the fact that the matrix MIGHT be real just because it's such a great movie? Reality check... just special effects and actors written by a couple of guys.

jc84corvette · November 03, 2003, 16:04:06

quote:
Originally posted by beavis

James S Why spoil it by trying to turn it into some kind of reality?

I'm not saying it is reality, but can you prove its not?

If it was reality, the whole series would be be crap.[

]

lostprophet · November 03, 2003, 16:16:38

If it was reality, dudes in shades would have blasted the wachowski brothers years ago. Curb your enthusiasm, it's no more than a kickass movie.

APGuy · November 03, 2003, 16:28:36

quote:
Originally posted by lostprophet

If it was reality, dudes in shades would have blasted the wachowski brothers years ago. Curb your enthusiasm, it's no more than a kickass movie.

I sincerely doubt that the matrix is reality. However I also doubt that if it were real that dudes in shades would have blasted the Wachowski Brothers years ago. What better way to make the percentage of the population think that something is just a story than making it into a huge movie? Sure there would be a few that thought it was real but try to tell anyone and they would more than likely account it as a paranoid dellusion brought on by the movie.

MJ-12 · November 03, 2003, 20:42:39

zz

Aas

Van-Stolin · November 03, 2003, 21:19:05

I remember when most movies made had meaning behind them and I feel that the Matrix is no different. Matrix got alot of people thinking outside of what they do everyday and question the world around them. As people have said, a great analogy of The Matrix would be the astral. We only think that this world around us is all that exists, but if you open up to other things then you wake up to the truth that there is something else out there.

Hephaestus · November 04, 2003, 07:02:26

So people are saying we cant be in a Matrix because its actually just a movie with special effects and actors *interesting*.
Think of it this way - perhaps the making of the movie is a part of the systems control, designed to make us humans think it is perposterous that we're in a matrix because its just a film and cant be real. If that is the case then that method of control seems to be working with many of you in this thread.

James S · November 04, 2003, 14:36:58

quote:
Originally posted by The AlphaOmega

Just a movie man, meant to entertain. Don't go changing your life because of it.

TOTALLY AGREE!!!!

To be blunt, I've got better things to do with my time than to work out whether or not we live in a "matrix" like situation, be it analogous to the astral / physical setup or not.
Whether it might be real or not is of no relevance to my day to day life.

Like it or not, this is the world I live in. This is the world I wake up to each morning and eat, breathe, live, play and work in. I've sampled the other side, the astral, but I don't live there. I don't get paid to work there. One day I might be there permanently, but until then this reality will have to make do.

For me, making do in this reality fortunately involves enjoying ENTERTAINMENT like The Matrix and other sci-fi's without having to think about if it's real or not. Unfortunately it also involves listening to the media while they try and hang sh*t on people who are clever enough to come up with such good storylines, and try to read to much into the whole existentialism of their movies and what kind of lifestyles or beliefs such writers might have.

To be even more blunt - to those who really want to believe The Matrix might be real - GET A LIFE. ITS JUST A MOVIE!

My 2 cents worth....plus another 2 cents for the last comment. [

]

James.

The AlphaOmega · November 04, 2003, 14:40:11

Holy excrement you're right! Last night morpheus called me and told me that I need to stop pretending it's just a movie and open my eyes. How could I have been so blind? The truth was right there in front of me in movie form and I thought it was just for entertainment value. I didn't see that they were really trying to warn us of the bondage that we are all under by the machines. Now I clearly see that the matrix has me!

beavis · November 04, 2003, 16:09:52

TheAlphaOmega You guys can't be serious. You're actually considering the fact that the matrix MIGHT be real just because it's such a great movie? Reality check... just special effects and actors written by a couple of guys.

No. I'm considering that it could be real because I cant think of any reason it cant be real.

James S To be blunt, I've got better things to do with my time than to work out whether or not we live in a "matrix" like situation, be it analogous to the astral / physical setup or not.
Whether it might be real or not is of no relevance to my day to day life.

Like it or not, this is the world I live in. This is the world I wake up to each morning and eat, breathe, live, play and work in. I've sampled the other side, the astral, but I don't live there. I don't get paid to work there. One day I might be there permanently, but until then this reality will have to make do.

We all have a choice to live here or in astral right now, but most people are scared to move to astral before they are forced to. It is useful to know if we are in a matrix or other things that dont affect our daily reality because we might learn it is advantageous to leave now.

Hephaestus · November 05, 2003, 06:13:22

quote:
Originally posted by The AlphaOmega

Holy excrement you're right! Last night morpheus called me and told me that I need to stop pretending it's just a movie and open my eyes. How could I have been so blind? The truth was right there in front of me in movie form and I thought it was just for entertainment value. I didn't see that they were really trying to warn us of the bondage that we are all under by the machines. Now I clearly see that the matrix has me!

You're not too good at understanding what people say are you, you must skim through posts without taking them in - might I add your sarcasm needs a bit of work, it makes you look like a prick. I said the movie might be a method of control, a way to make us think us being in a matrix right now is stupid - I didnt say it was morpheus trying to warn us we're in a matrix (thats not a method of control is it!).
Who said we're in a machine world matrix, I didnt say that - we could be getting used as food by higher dimensional beings and this physical world of hell is our prison.
If you cant even consider it a possibility you're not a very open minded enlightened individual are you.
If you cant even consider it a possibility then you're trapped in your own little ignorant matrix.

Rob · November 05, 2003, 08:04:27

Well, the Wachowski brothers - from the interviews I have seen on them - are seekers who would fit right in in a place like this. They have obviously put a lot of thought into the movie - not necessarily saying its real, but I think its meant to highlight a number of philosophical points (a metaphor....or even parable!) eg how do you know your perception is reality, then you dont; and so the only thing you can really Know is "I AM". Does it then really matter whats "real" and what is "not" as perception defines YOUR reality? A bomb goes off, I close my eyes, what difference?
As Beavis well put it - it might not be real, but that aint the point, the point is whether you can prove it to be true or not. How do you know that everyone you meet on the streets in real life are not just fleshy robots and you are the only real human? When it comes right down to it, the heart with its love and care for our fellow humans is the ONLY thing that has to power to hold us in the physical. If thats broken then life loses a lot of its meaning.
Well, if I hadn't have already thought all these thoughts before, the matrix could have really made me think [

]
An interesting titbit - they made some of the actors read 3 books before they even looked at the script. Just had a mosey around and think the books were Kevin Kelly's Out of Control, Jean Baudrillard's Simulacra and Simulation, and another (something to do with evolutionaryness I think [

]). The brothers are exceedingly well read, very intelligent, and etc.
So, damn good entertainment it certainly is, but that doesn't stop it from having depth and insight to it should you care to have a look......and some great quotes in it which could be applied to the world we live in, if you really wanted to!

Rob

Tisha · November 05, 2003, 11:25:21

It is said that art imitates life. However . . . how about life imitating art? That happens too . . . just think of all the inventions since Star Trek.

If a powerful movie can tranform the minds of enough people, these people will create a consensus reality and behave AS IF these ideas were real . . . and eventually for them it WILL be real. So-called reality will shape itself to conform to their beliefs. Magic is funny that way.

This is why, I believe movie makers should be mindful of what they create, since movies are so powerful, and reach so many people. In a sense, they are modern magic-workers. But would they listen to me? NAH.

The AlphaOmega · November 05, 2003, 12:45:49

Nope, can't consider it a possibility.

TheSeeker · November 05, 2003, 12:57:19

Just to clarify, I didn't say it might be real. I meant it was a good analogy, everyone is walking around in the physical thinking that it is all that is. When there is a whole other world behind it all (astral/higher dimensions not like the movie).

Whenever I see someone obsessed with materialism I usually have the thought that they're stuck in the matrix.

beavis · November 05, 2003, 13:55:02

TheAlphaOmega, why isnt it possible?
Can machines never be intelligent?
Do you think brains are invulnerable to implanted technology?

Ceriel N · November 05, 2003, 15:09:22

The Matrix teaches you to ask questions.

(That is a Good Thing.)

James S · November 05, 2003, 18:47:43

quote:
Originally posted by beavis

We all have a choice to live here or in astral right now, but most people are scared to move to astral before they are forced to. It is useful to know if we are in a matrix or other things that dont affect our daily reality because we might learn it is advantageous to leave now.

Please explain?
Just exactly how is one supposed to choose to make a permanent shift out of this physical existance? I mean realistically, without deliberately offing yourself?
Scared? No. Don't know how!

I'm aware of the astral as I have visited it on rare occasions. I concede that at some level a "Matrix" like situation could exist as I certainly don't really know how the "real" universe around might be constructed. What I don't see how I have a choice right now to live in any other form than within the physical vehicle that is my body.

I do not have the power of ascension. I'm not interested in wasting my physical life away on hallucinogens or other drugs that can keep me constantly tripping. I'm sure as hell not inclined to suicide as I have a wife that I love, a nice house, and generally a life here that I enjoy. Basically, with the exception of the few visits to the astral, I'm stuck in this form and I don't dislike it.

Movies like the Matrix are thought provoking, but then so are many sci-fi/fantasy books I read. Yet they still fall into the realm of entertainment & escapism. Good fun, something to dream about, can open you up to new thoughts and ideas, but nothing serious.

True it may be that nothing is impossible, under the right circumstances, but what is practical? To me, dwelling on the possibilities that The Matrix might be true is not practical. Enjoying the life I have here and now is.

As to the the original point of this topic, it's interesting that some tabloid has dredged up the info that Mustardseed came across, particularly as the Wachowski's have kept themselves out of the media spotlight. Maybey that's why someones made up some dirt on them. A snubbed interviewer seeking payback perhaps?

Regards,
James.

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