Matrix enigma

MJ-12 · November 05, 2003, 20:02:31

as

beavis · November 05, 2003, 20:58:02

James S, the option to leave requires suicide. I said most people are scared, and you just made yourself an example of that. You choose to stay here. That is the reason you are not in astral right now. IF I found that due to the laws of this reality my energy capacity decreases permanently every day I'm here, I would leave. There are lots of possible reasons to leave. Maybe I'll find out there is something more important I should do on the other side of the universe.

James S · November 05, 2003, 23:02:46

There may be reasons to leave, but I can think of a lot more reasons to stay.
I had a feeling that's what you had in mind Beavis. I have to disagree with you here. Leaving by way of suicide I do not consider to be an option.

Being scared to suicide? I find that to be a ridiculous idea.
It's not an option! It's not even something to be scared of. It's something done by people who are scared of facing this world, who feel they are unable to cope with living in this reality. A permanent solution to temporary problems.

The more I come to learn about the alternate realities around us, the more I come to cherish this life that I have in this one because it means more to me now. There's more to it than I had previously considered. I don't fear death at all - it's just the next stage in my journey, but trying to jump the queue and get there early to me would be a step backwards, not forwards.

James.

TorosDead · November 06, 2003, 00:20:28

I don't think that the matrix is real. I know what you mean when you say that people walk around in a dream world, I think that is true. When we die it will be an awakening of sorts, and we will see the truth for what it really is. I don't however think we are under the control of machines that we created that ended up turning on us. The movies are awsome though, and I just saw "Revolutions". Thought it was the best one yet!

lostprophet · November 06, 2003, 14:57:49

It might be possible that a matrix like situation exists, but I choose to believe it doesn't. If I choose to believe it does, what difference would it make to my life? There's no conceivable way you could get out anyway.

Inguma - Thanks for that little titbit of info. Simulacra and Simulation gets a short cameo during the first movie when he's in his bedroom, I spotted that and I've been wondering what the reference was.

Beavis - Are you serious about the suicide thing are were you just saying it was an option? I don't think suicide is a good idea.

TheSeeker · November 06, 2003, 15:33:01

I don't think suicide would be a way to escape permanently to the astral. Commiting suice I'm pretty sure would keep you caught in the birth/death cycle.

beavis · November 06, 2003, 16:35:40

James S There may be reasons to leave, but I can think of a lot more reasons to stay.

I agree, for my specific situation, but not in general. Thats why I'm still here.

It's something done by people who are scared of facing this world, who feel they are unable to cope with living in this reality.

This is faulty logic. People do X to avoid Y because they are scared of Y. We dont have to want to do Y (live on earth)!

The more I come to learn about the alternate realities around us, the more I come to cherish this life

Everybody doesnt have to think like you. The more I learn about those realities, the less value this life appears to have. Before, it was the only life, but now I know it is only a small fraction of the total.

lostprophet Beavis - Are you serious about the suicide thing are were you just saying it was an option?

I am serious when I say it is an option, but I am not planning to do it.

TheSeeker, I could avoid reincarnation by choosing not to incarnate again, which I have already chosen.

James S · November 06, 2003, 18:56:45

Hi Beavis,

Good argument![

]

> "This is faulty logic. People do X to avoid Y because they are scared of Y. We dont have to want to do Y (live on earth)!"

The logic to me seems to apply. People do go out of their way to avoid things, often at a higher cost than if they accept those things. Its the difference between choosing because you have a choice, and forcing a choice because your afraid of the alternative.

Perhaps it's more that my thought processes don't accept the idea of suicide as a choice that can be freely made, not because of fear, but because my brain's just not wired that way. To me its more of a black and white thing, with only a few shades of grey.

>"Everybody doesnt have to think like you. The more I learn about those realities, the less value this life appears to have. Before, it was the only life, but now I know it is only a small fraction of the total."

Thats true enough. I tend to be an "I'm just along for the ride to see what's here" kind of person, so knowing there's more than one direction I could go in is what makes life interesting. I tend not to "think" about things more than I "feel" them, and I don't feel that there's any benefit in jumping to a different level when I haven't explored this one thoroughly enough yet.

......but then it all comes down to - do we really have a free choice in this? Or do we only THINK we do!

Regards,
James.

beavis · November 06, 2003, 19:19:42

James S The logic to me seems to apply. People do go out of their way to avoid things, often at a higher cost than if they accept those things. Its the difference between choosing because you have a choice, and forcing a choice because your afraid of the alternative.

Thats their choice, but my point wasnt that everybody should choose it. It is a better option for some people.

Perhaps it's more that my thought processes don't accept the idea of suicide as a choice that can be freely made, not because of fear, but because my brain's just not wired that way. To me its more of a black and white thing, with only a few shades of grey.

There is no line I wont cross if more good than bad comes from it.

Thats true enough. I tend to be an "I'm just along for the ride to see what's here" kind of person, so knowing there's more than one direction I could go in is what makes life interesting.

Thats why suicide is an option. Its an other direction to go in.

I tend not to "think" about things more than I "feel" them, and I don't feel that there's any benefit in jumping to a different level when I haven't explored this one thoroughly enough yet.

Why read anything from a new book when you havent finished the last page of your current book?

James S · November 06, 2003, 20:12:05

Yes, all things are subject to circumstance. Where I in a hospital bed in extreme pain alive only through constant life support, the choice would be a lot different. But that's where semantics comes in and calls it euthenasia rather than suicide.

>"Why read anything from a new book when you havent finished the last page of your current book?"

Well, you've got me there! I'm a chronic cheater when it comes to books, especially big ones with lots of different storylines. I'll often skip ahead between books just to find out what happens next with a certain character without wading through all the other storylines to get there. Trouble is it doesn't then always make sense.

James.

The AlphaOmega · November 07, 2003, 01:38:00

I guess I give up. If you wanna believe that the Matrix is possible, then who am I to say it isn't. But a couple things for the record. First, I've seen the last matrix, and it can't be possible because everyone is freed after the war is over (sorry for the spoiler, don't care). Second, the reason that the matrix isn't real, is because it's OBVIOUSLY not real. We live in a world where hollywood makes movies... and sometimes those movies make us think. That's all. Come on, screw your head on straight. It's not real because it's a movie. If you can't tell the difference between a hollywood movie and reality then you need psychiatric help. It's that simple. I wish I could type a sentence or something to allow you to realize that it's fake, but I cant, so good luck. As for the concept of the movie, I think it's right on. I do believe that we are living in a dream world and that death is an awakening (as Toro said), and that the truth will be known by all of us eventually, without exceptions. I'm not saying all of you are blind and believe in the Matrix, but some of you definately are. Decide for yourselves, doesn't matter to me. But for those of you that think you can jump off a school building (like 'kids story' ) and wake up in the matrix, you got a hell of a wake up call coming!

beavis · November 07, 2003, 10:42:40

TheAlphaOmega If you wanna believe that the Matrix is possible, then who am I to say it isn't.

the matrix isn't real, is because it's OBVIOUSLY not real

Make up your mind.

It's not real because it's a movie

Then there are really no doctors, because movies are made about doctors.

sorry for the spoiler, don't care

How can you be sorry and not care at the same time?

TheSeeker · November 07, 2003, 11:28:51

yeah, i read that spoiler on accident [V]

Hephaestus · November 08, 2003, 07:12:18

quote:
Originally posted by The AlphaOmega

First, I've seen the last matrix, and it can't be possible because everyone is freed after the war is over (sorry for the spoiler, don't care).

Now im ticked! [

!]
You WILL care! [

!]

beavis · November 08, 2003, 09:16:31

Thanks for pulling that spoiler out of its big block of text and isolating it so we can all be spoiled.

Ceriel N · November 08, 2003, 16:20:15

quote:
Well, unless of course you're Buddha.

I am Buddha. You are Buddha. Everybody is Buddha.

(I am not making this up.)

beavis · November 08, 2003, 19:37:16

Hi, Buddha. I just saw Buddha in the porn shop.

Hephaestus · November 09, 2003, 06:10:47

quote:
Originally posted by beavis

Thanks for pulling that spoiler out of its big block of text and isolating it so we can all be spoiled.

Good point. [

]

beavis · November 10, 2003, 08:29:25

People always want to know the future... except in movies.

Hephaestus · November 17, 2003, 15:06:56

quote:
Originally posted by Hephaestus

quote:
Originally posted by The AlphaOmega

First, I've seen the last matrix, and it can't be possible because everyone is freed after the war is over (sorry for the spoiler, don't care).

Now im ticked! [!]
You WILL care! [!]

MATRIX SPOILER WARNING:
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Ive just watched the movie and I tell ya The AlphaOmega you're a little sneak, they dont all get freed, not even close, none have even been freed yet and the architect says only those who want to leave in the future can leave.

TheSeeker · November 17, 2003, 15:16:15

I don't want to know the future. Think about how much it sucks when someone tells you what is about to happen in a movie, or tells you how it ends. You don't even want to watch it anymore. I don't want my life spoiled in the same way[

].

eomaia · November 17, 2003, 15:34:32

There are other-dimensional beings sapping us of our energy while we sit naïvely in the physical plane. They're the egos. They create an illusion around us, but when we destroy them and realize who we really are we begin to actually wake up and experience things we never thought imaginable. And it's possible to escape the matrix for good à la getting off the wheel of samsara, never needing to be reborn in this dimension again. Even if you go look at the multitudes in the astral who are still 'asleep' in this world, they look like a bunch of mindless zombies.

It's a movie, but it's a profound parable for many different archetypical paths.
-eomaia

Mustardseed · October 26, 2003, 11:38:00

Just read today that the creator of the Matrix wanted it to be a picture or allegory of the evolution of the consiousness of man. Sort of a buddhist/hinduist/pagan/gnostic mixture. The article aslo mentioned that he himself seemed to also "evolute" as he recently left his wife of 15 yrs to be the personal slave of a dominatrix, and is publicly starting a career as a crossdresser. It got me to thinking of the old proverb "can men gather figs from a thorn bush" by their fruit ye shall know them. Matrix is very facinating but I somehow wonder what it "teaches". I am not sure but am tempted to believe that what a man creates (like Matrix)is determined by what you are. Show me your life and I will tell you what you believe , sort of thing.
Any thoughts
Regards MS

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