OBEs are DREAMS... and DREAMS are OBEs !

[Van-Stolin]

quote:Originally posted by Leyla

> No. I do not assume that. I have repeatedly been able to enter other people's dreams, direct the dream, and describe to them what they were dreaming about after they awoke, which usually isn't necessary because they remember me walking into their dream and somehow or another sensed that it was all "real."

Therefore - I, in fact, *do* know that a persons dream is not contained in their own mind.

I'd like a way to stop this because the person becomes paranoid I'm spying on them/controling them/plotting against them and wants to get away from me as fast as possible. I've lost friends this way. : (

That reminds me of a Sponge Bob episode.  Well how do you enter the dream to begin with?  Also you could just deny the fact if they ever talk to you about it.  I mean I dream about people I know all the time, but the weird thing is my freind and me had the same dream, just different perspectives.  This is further proof that dreams occure in the astral, but it dissproves that we have a personal dream 'bubble'.  Maybe we just create a new one each time.  This also makes me wonder what happens to the dream after you leave it.

[Leyla]

>Well how do you enter the dream to begin with?

Ha! Wouldn't I like to know. Soon as I find out I'll tell you.

>Also you could just deny the fact if they ever talk to you about it.

Nope. They seem to sense it's "real." Also as friends of mine they already know I'm....uhh...different.

The most recent episode of this is my best friend came banging on my door after his daughter (a minor child) blurted out that she had been lucid patterend dreams about me, one picking up where the last had ended, that I was coming to teach her things in her sleep and she felt it was all leading somewhere.

He demanded to know what the hell I was doing with his kid. There was no way out of this one, as I told him days before to watch her because she was about to start having lucid dreams and AP's, and that I knew she had "the gift". I had no idea at the time that I would actually be entering these dreams. I only knew that she would have them. But I suppose my subconscious must have been aware at some level.

Thank gods he trusts me, because I managed to convince him that it as beyond my control (which it is) and that my higher self is at work. Whatever is going on is on a higher plane beyond the reach of the earthly one. He knows that she and I have always been close.

But I now understand why they used to burn us.

[beavis]

They burned people like us because they were ignorant. Death wont stop us.

[Van-Stolin]

Well that was a close one.  Really though if they don't trust, even if it is something like a dream, then they weren't really good friends.  Mine would think it weird and cool that if I was able to do that, but I guess some would get mad that I interupted their dream.

I was trying to say that if you make new freinds, then don't tell them about that and if you do find yourself in their dream, then all you need to do after wards is deny it.

Beavis, you are right.  Death can not stop us!!

[Hyperdimensional]

The dreams, AP, OBE and LD are correlated, but each person has different ideas from the same, so it's very difficut to interpret a dream or OBE of a person and compare with others, maybe it can be possible but dividing people for similar ideas or age ranks, etc..

Best regards

[Fyrenze]

You're all right, in a way. Perspective is everything. We all experience "reality" differently, because we all bring our own stuff to the table. Your world is different in every moment, because your experience is absolutely defined by what you believe. Not by what you THINK you believe, but what you honestly deeply hold to be "truth."

I don't think any of us here know the whole of what's real and what's true, but that's what we're here for. We try to figure it out. So I agree that the physical world is up for as much interpretation as anything astral or dream related.

[Ybom]

Aye, Fyrenze is correct, the everything exploration is why I'm here. I could say anything is a dream solely because there will be a point I'll forget even typing these words!

However, to fight for the idea that the astral realm is a dream, I'll say that I haven't personally experienced it yet, so it still doesn't exist to me.

Overall, I think we all need to realize one important detail. It's what keeps me moving towards my personal goals, and that's that everything you imagine or dream or think of for a spark of a second exists in some form! Given this, we have to accept that the astral is real, right?

[beavis]

The physical world we experience doesn't leave much room for interpretation. We can even quantify it, and all our numbers will match

There isnt much interpretation but there is some. Its just too small to notice without extremely accurate measuring devices or your spirit.

[babiebella]

I have never had OBE but I do (I think) have very vivid dreams.  I and was just curious as to what was the diff between lucid dreaming and regular dreaming.  I mean I have vivid dreams of walking around and and knowing that I am dreaming but also know that I am sleeping and not awake.  but some of my dreams are very real in the things that happen to me in them.  Like a while back I had a dream of some one trying to kill me and I feel them stab me and shoot me.  I could feel the pain and the blood.  I did not die nor get medical help in my dream, but I was trying to find out who was doing this to me and the other people I knew.  Now what kind of dream was it.  I call it a night mare...lol.

[shaman]

Hi Folk,

I had made a posting on the symbolism in dreams and the possiblity that it might be the same in the astral, but did not get much feed back from you. So I decided to face the subject directly with a very "provoking" title that OBEs are just mind-awake dreams. Now, before you answer me let me explain and elaborate, in that sens that what I am saying is that DREAMS are OBEs will be the final answer. HEre it is:

When you do have an OBE, and it is close to the physical plane, it often happens that you find a door in your room that was not there (where it is not supposed to be there) and that once you open it you fall onto something that is even weider than the door itself, you find a cave, a pyramid, or whatever other things that don't exist in the physical world. Where did it come from? From you mind, or from the unconscioud part of your mind (which might be much more than what you think, for example as the "collective" consciousness). Anyway, the point I want to refere to here is that if in the real time zone (the physical plane) you actually have things that do not exist and that are the result of the mind, THEN WHY when you are not in the real time zone and when you meet with "higher" entities, these entities cannot be themselves the result of your mind (or collective mind). You see I have difficulties accepting the fact that when you see in the physical plane (in the astral) things that do not exist you say OK it comes from the mind, I know it should not be there; however when you switch completely away from the physical, you think that all waht you experience is complete reality.

What I am suggesting is that, exactly like in dreams, one need to interprete OBE using the same symbolism that used to interprete and decode dreams. So that if you encounter entities who tell you that reptiles are about to take over the world, it might means something else than just "reptile". For example reptiles might represent the side of human that is not very spiritual, rather basic instinct and then interprete the OBE as the fact that thw world is actually dominated not by the mind of people but by their instinct (just an example). One really needs to check all the possible symbolisms before really giving an interpretation.

Now back to dreams, how do you think the same symbolism in dreams works for John and for Suzy, or for Mr. A and Ms. B? It seems (Young) that we do have a collective consciousness (more precisely this one is unconscious) and that we tap into it at night during dreaming. Now all agree that most of the dreams come in symbolism and that one need to interprete them. So if Dreams and OBE are actual "visits" of our consciousness into the realm of the "collective consciousness" then we certainly need also to interprete OBE with the same symbolism. IN that sens, not only I see OBE as dreams, but I see dreams as OBE. The only difference is the state of awakeness of the mind.

I believe that OBE can be the key to understanding dreams in that sens that in OBE we have our will and are aware of what to do or to ask, while dreams are more passive. But I believe that it is the same world, influence by our mind and that need interpretation.

Let me give you a few concrete example about how dreams tap into the collective consciousness:

The scientist who found the way "benzene" (6 atoms of carbon) works did that in his dream, where he saw 6 snakes arangin themselves in weird manners  untill they form the famous sexagonal figure with one carbon atom at each 'corner'.
Wasn't there a president of the US who had a premonitory vision of his own death druing his dream?
Dreaming of a piece of raw meat is known to mean death. The person who is offered the piece of raw meat is the preson who will die/transit.
In general premonitoty dreams are the best example that the dream world is an exploration into other planes of reality, like OBE, but event then INTERPRETATION is needed.

So, I'm coming back, at last, to the original posting:

Don't you think that one should interprete the OBE in the same manner as dreams?

Shaman The Dreamer