HELP ME PLEASE.....DOES GOD/JESUS REALLY EXIST????

[Beth]

Dear Mustardseed and Wisp,

I really do not understand how the two of you think.  Somehow it is okay for you to insult me, accuse me of being an elitest and a wanna-be cult leader, among so many other hurtful and cruel things that these threads are full of--and yet--when I speak my mind all of the sudden the two of you become humble and non-deserving of my comments.  This is some strange kind of psycho-manipulation on your part.  

And yes Wisp, you did try to psycho-analyze the few personal posts that I made about one or two of the dreams/experiences that I had.  I was "sharing my experiences" as you insisted that I do--not asking you for your "help" to understand them.  Then Mustardseed came at me after "having a few beers" (oh well! he said...nobody is perfect...) and had a few choice words in response as well. It did hurt my feelings and I said so.  In response to this, Mustardseed said that I should get a thicker skin. So I stopped posting my personal experiences and my personal view of reality.  I chose instead to stick to "FACTS" but even then, since you can't refute my research--you still attacked me personally.  This is, logically speaking, "red herring" tactics in full form, and personally speaking--extremely hurtful and NOT good "Christian behavior."  

It is obvious that the two of you wish I were not here--and I assume it is because my research frightens you--or as you put it Wisp, "scares the hell out of you."  I wish that really were the case--because "HELL" and all those silly notions need to come out of you somehow.  

I really must get back to my work.  I will try in the future not  to respond to a "silent call" to check the AP.  I really do not appreciate your treatment, and further, I do not like what this brings out in me.  If you want to stay a fundamentalist because it is more hospitable that I am--well first--it is not ME vs. Fundamentalism.  It is fundamentalism vs. rational thought.  

Secondly, you have certainly not shown me any hospitality at all--and have done more to interrupt what others have wanted me to discuss, and regularly get in the way of progressive thinking.  Your comments and treatment continually put me on the defensive--and that is counterproductive for me.  I have nothing to defend but my thesis--and my thesis is sound scholorly research--accepted by one of the top university's in this country.  You can either learn from it--or not.  I assume you both choose "not."  That is fine--stay in the darkness. I tried my best...but I guess my best was not good enough. I will work on my presentation...but no matter what I say to the two of you--it will never get through to you.  Not because it is not good solid research--but only because it comes from me.  That is sad...

Don't shoot me--I am just the messenger.
Beth  

[kakkarot]

good luck with your book beth.

quote:Paul's epistles were written first and Paul never spoke of being there with Jesus. The Gospels are thought to have been written between 80 c.e. and 120 c.e. But besides these, there were also a great many other books written that are not commonly known about because the Catholic Church two hundred or so years after the fact, chose not to include them in their "Holy Book." But all of this has already been presented here, time and time again. This is "history" not speculation. This is reality -- not belief or opinion.

(sorry, i must have missed this part last time i read your post)that is strange, i've not heard of the books that are actually in the new testament being dated at more than 75 years (i have only read a handful a sources regarding their dating, but all said approximately the same time so i did not realize there were other "speculations". thank you for letting me know that). i am wrong about paul's books, obviously, so thanks for pointing that out [|)]. and as well i do know of the other books that were not included in what is now known as the "Holy Bible", but i've never really done any research into them and i've never heard any speculation on when they may have been written, so i was not referring to them when i mentioned the dating of the books of the new testament (sorry for not being more aparent in that).

~kakkarot

[wisp]

Beth,
First I want to say that I hesitate responding as it may encourage or reinforce whatever it is that drives your behavior, attitude, whatever.

I discovered that you are way too sensitive to what I do. I do not psycho-analyse for gosh sakes. I at least have learned from this experience with you.

I would confront you with your personnally revised expression of me,but it's all in writing here Beth. Read what I have said, you are misrepresenting me. All I can say is that I must either be more careful how I phrase things, or I must be silent altogether. The silence part would suite you I'm sure.How about this? The best thing to do, I will keep my distance from you. Trust that anything I say from here on, is not about you.

You make things into what you want it  to be. You see things the way want to see. I cannot and will not try to change perceptions you choose for yourself.  
 
Look beyond yourself for a moment, past the mirrors you have placed in front of others.  

I have never had a thought of not wanting you here Beth. I hope you stay. You have something to offer that is good. []

[Adrian]

Greetings everyone,

I just would like to say that I am really looking forward to Beth's book!

I am also extremely pleased that she can still find the time to post here from time to time.

In defence of Beth, she is absolutely right to put forward her position in such a robust way. The dogmatic, orthodox church has remained unchallenged for hundreds of years, and historically, those who did challenge the church were tortured and/or executed horribly. And that si notwithstanding the millions of christians who have killed each other because they believe there branch of christianity was better than the next. This has been highly apparent with the catholics versus protestants throughout history. Look at the British monarch over the centuries, they routinely executed everyone who did not conform to the version of christianity supported by the king or queen. All in all, look at where this has got mankind today. The time has come to challenge and expose these orthodox religions for what they really are, as part of the activities currently occuring which will result in the expansion of consciousness of all mankind, irrespective of whether the much prophesied "dimensional shift" happens or not.

I am still firmly of the view that it has been due to the convenience of the church as a "packaged belief system" that is partially responsible for this situation. Why would people seek the truth of their true nature and their own individual evolution and destiny if they believe that the church, which after all id very high profile, will do it for them by proxy, providing they read the bible, go to church, and believe in God (the deity) and Jesus the saviour.

Excellent work Beth, keep it coming!

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Mustardseed]

Ha so much for levelheadedness. [] You guys are really something else. I wonder if I am the only one who sees this or are folks seeing it and applauding up in the grand stands while these two hungry lions lay in to us here. []

I realise now Beth that you were never interested in anything I posted, you were not interested when you asked me to post about the endtime. Though you were so kind and encouraging me to, but you only set me up, so you could come in with your wonderful research and ¨blow everybodys mind¨. You were never interested in hearing anything about Prophesies and how they come, nor Wisps take at things. All along you just dispised us and just gathered up amunition, for the final showdown Ha.

Beth my dear all along you have felt way superiour to everyone else on this forum, maybe with the exception of the elect few moderators and fellow intelligensia.

You have finally shown your true face and exposed your innermost feelings. Good now we know where you stand. All along you wanted to be the teacher the giver the great thinker and ......elitist.

Beth this is not about your problem with Christianity, this is about you and your problem with people who do not believe as you do.

For the record I have stated the following doctrines that most fundementalists build their faith on and my own take on them.

Hell

The general view is that Hell is the burning hell all unbelievers will be cast into

My belief is that Hell may be created on earth by your own experiences, your own private Astral creation. Most likely a place you pass through as you learn what you have to.

Sin generally thought to be physical things sex drinking drugs etc

I believe it is missing the mark. Not acting in love. To the pure all things are pure

Eternal damnation
Generally thought to be eternal punishment for not having recieved Jesus

I believe that it is a falacy. The doctrine of reconcilleration , that we learn as we grow. No poor little kid in the jungle will be damned, for not having Jesus. I refuse to serve that kind of God.

The spirit world OBEs and Channeling and guides
Generally thought to all be of the devil and only there to lead people astray.

I believe in OBEs having them too. Channeling I prophecy I have a guide, I believe they are there if people want them .

ETc I could go on Beth but these beliefs set me aside from the fundementalists you so love to put me together with. Aside from the belief that the organised Church and money hungry evangelists seem to most definately be afflicted and some even possessed with various Neg entities.

So It is me, that you have something against and my simple belief that Jesus was a real person, and the son of God and lives to give his love and salvation to those who ask him. Thats the beef. Not the churches and their many failings inquisitions and whatnot.

Regards Mustardseed

[wisp]

Well MustardSeed, looks like the lions done us in. [xx(]

What Now?

We can come back in spirit! []

[Wyzeguy211]

Mustardseed, as an "audience member", I can't really cheer for anybody, because you people are confusing the sh*t outta me. You and wisp are calling Beth the agressor, but are acting agressively. Beth is calling you two the agressors, but is acting agressively herself. Personally, I'm just gonna adhere to my church (I'm a Salvation Army Soldier) and sit it out until I figure all this out myself, because I can't figure out anything you people are pushing except that the Bible is false, but isnt't (personally, I'm confused on this too. If God could let his "Chosen People" suffer at the hands of the Nazis for so long, letting His Word be corrupted by liars doesn't seem to be too far of a stretch). One thing I do know for certain though is this: Somebody has to be right, but what if it isn't any of us?

[Mustardseed]

Hi Guy
Ha well said, its hard to see whats happening. I dont blame you. I think when those Christians were mauled they probably tried their best to slap the lions but what is a slap against ivory. About your question. It seems supportable by scripture that the jews stopped being the chosen people at the crucifiction of Jesus and the chosen people were from then on the ones who were Spiritual Jews and accepted him by faith.

I find it a falacy to think that God has a people geograpically located. The Jews are actually persecuting lots of Christian Palestinians as well. This is a point of doctrine that I could share more on  if you are interested.

I am pretty sad about the whole thing and feel quite betrayed and decieved by her and I guess I react as a man, if it is stumbeling to you I apologise. Beth and I go way back some 4 months and to get the whole picture you will have to read a lot , which I would not expect. All that to say....Pray my friend and just trust God ...He will lead you.

All the best to you
Regards Mustardsed

[wantsumrice]

no, not at all...gawd and jaysus dont exist. (period)

[^]~ivan

[wisp]

Wyzeguy,
In a nutshell for me, it's about free choice and free speech. Anyone with an idea or belief is their's to own. What that entails is unique and personal to each and everyone. Churches may or may not represent the personal view exactly of any person, but they exist for a purpose(imo).
The problem is when one person or a group's belief takes steps to make another one's personal or church beliefs nil and void.  In this case it's being done by calling other beliefs wrong by proof through another enity's research. The only choice given in this matter, is believe us (enity), or else find out through your own research(you are nil/void otherwise in your beliefs). Nevermind what I or others have already have come to know for him/herself, because you are automatically wrong by way of "research". Research, being this intellectual and rational enity.

Freedom of choice is at stake here.

My belief is ......well,...whatever I believe (this is what makes me, ME). I don't want anyone trampling on it, and I wouldn't want someone else being taken advantage in the same manner. Freedom of speech on the matter is in question by what I see happening to MustardSeed. He understands his choices, and who he IS, but is not being allowed to express IT. I've been watching this for some time. Now, because I dared to exercise my free speech about it, I'm in the same boat with MustardSeed.

[Mustardseed]

Yep Wisp that seem to be the sum of it. Welcome in the boat. Sailing is a lot of fun.

"there is nothisg quite so satisfying as messing around in boats"
The water rat (from Wind in the Willows)

[Adrian]

Greetings Mustardseed and Wisp,

Discussions are a two way process whereby groups of people, often with opposing views, present their case in the most compelling possible manner. Those with the strongest case and with the evidence to support it are much more likely to prevail.

What we are seeing here is Beth presenting a huge amount of information from numerous independant sources, and quoting those sources, while yourselves, for the most part, rather than countering the positions of Beth, I and others, with discusssions based upon your own sources of information, are taking it all personally as an afront to your personal beliefs.

The problem appears to be; Beth has literally hundreds of sources of information to support her case, but yet, the only source of information to support the bible upon which orthodox christianity is built, is the bible itself.

Might I suggest that rather than being angry and upset about these discussions, you present your own independant sources of information in support of your own positions vis a vis the bible, God, Jesus, and the authenticity of christianity generally.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Mustardseed]

(Adrian)The problem appears to be; Beth has literally hundreds of sources of information to support her case, but yet, the only source of information to support the bible upon which orthodox christianity is built, is the bible itself.

Might I suggest that rather than being angry and upset about these discussions, you present your own independant sources of information in support of your own positions vis a vis the bible, God, Jesus, and the authenticity of christianity generally.

(MS) Yes Adrian you might suggest that, however I do not have to, do I. I have a faith a belief that does not need the facts you are looking for. I am not in a trial court, where I will be declaired guilty of ignorance or any such ridiclous thing if I fail to present evidence for my case , well enough to convince you or Beth or anyone else. Or am I ?

I will restate my point!!. The documents the Bible is translated after are very old, they are stories written about this Jesus guy, and the Bible in general. They date differently and are found in different places. Some are in the dead sea scrolls from what I understand. They indicate to me that the Jesus I know could have been real. The counsel of nicea canned some stories or accounts and approved others, for reasons I am not sure (I was not there). I believe the Spirit of God found its way into thise pages anyway!!!. Josephus a contemporary to Paul even wrote secular books and told of Jesus. Do a search on that. I included a list a while back but you probably allready know it.

I do not need to know by worldly proof that what I believe is the truth to me. I believe it and never claimed to have more than that!!. Anyone listening!! There has been some archaelogic findings to tell that the places in the Bible were there but by enlarge I do not have a whole lot. I KNOW THIS. That makes Jesus someone you have to believe in by faith not proof, but this is not inconsistant with scripture as it seems that Gods loves a mystery. Even Beth says so. He has hidden some of those things for the wise and revealed them to babes. (Not babes babes but babies[])

What I feel is wrong is that I cannot have this Faith and this belief without being badgered at every turn by folks who call me all kinds of things and ridicule me as unintelligent etc etc. for believing a falsehood.

Leave me alone.

Just say ...well I dont believe this. I have not used the astral pulse a soapbox to gather souls and converts as Beth an others have said. You know this Adrian. All I have done is stand up for my right to have a faith.

I find it ludicrous that you and her and others consistantly demand proof for Christianity while at the same time embrace a myriad of beliefs , like Zetas OBE  pole shifts etc. with no question, go figure!!. I get taunted for thinking "i am some kind of Prophet" becourse I prophesy and others post at great lengths about Prophesy and channeling and are encouraged and applauded or at least left alone.  

So there it is again, why do you all have to prove me wrong???. I never said anything nor claimed or badgered you for your beliefs did I Adrian? Why are you not content to agree to disagree, and why do you see the need to make me and now Wisp the wipping boy(s) for the king.

Regards Mustardseed

PS and kindly stop calling me a fundementalist and group me with various Ministers and tele evangelists and whatnot. I have explained why this is incorrect. I will not be at the recieving end for all the bitterness that flows toward Christianity (falsly so called), I will not take the blame for the inquisition, nor will I do penance for the (UN)Holy wars.

[wisp]

Adrian,
Anger is not at play here for me. I am expressing freely an appropiate response to circumstances which can occur in life. Expression and anger are not the same thing.

I'm sure you are quite aware of the true dynamics of the emotion anger.  Anger and fear are tightly coiled. My belief system is not in any internal fear or danger. [] I am secure.

Matter of FACT, this encounter only reinforces the beliefs I have already come to know as truth.

I'm in agreement with MustardSeed and also must decline the invitation or trial to be guilty of ignorance.

Here is the top portion of MY list of priorities or hierarchy for information:

1. God

2. Son

3. Holy Spirit

4. Me *

5. Any person or thing other than the above.

* I find that most people will respond openly and honestly if I make that person #4 and me #5 during my encounter with him or her. That way I get another perspective other than my own.

Adrian said,

quote:Might I suggest that rather than being angry and upset about these discussions, you present your own independant sources of information in support of your own positions vis a vis the bible, God, Jesus, and the authenticity of christianity generally.

Having addressed my views on your anger issue, the rest I feel I've answered here, and in my previous post.

When the opportunity presents itself, and the time is right, I will be glad to add anything significant. Until then, I will be delighted to check out Beth's intriguing studies.

[Mustardseed]

This is the way things often end here in the Pulse. Someone like Beth will come in and say a bunch of outrageous stuf, Adrian as well and as people argue against this or defend themselves, there is suddenly no answer and it fizzeles out.

All that is remembered is the "front page" the grand claims and pompous accusations and allegations. There is no retraction as there are no rules. I find Beths statement outrageous Adrian. It is a singeled out agression towards Wisp and myself and others who may believe as do we, indicating all sorts of negative things, and you stand by her in this. It is a reversed "inquisition style indoctrination" IMO. Believe as we do or else?. If I had used those kind of words that attitude etc I would possibly have been warned. If this is not elitist tell me what it is. You are both making US the focus of all your frustration against organized Christianity and it seems you do not care about the collateral damage. Why dont you read the message Beth wrote and try to discern its "spirit". Are we the enemy Adrian?

Why

[wisp]

No damage done at my end MS, but I do appreciate your concern. It kind of strikes me as just reactionary now. I'm sure willing to let it go. []

[wisp]

No news is good news to me. []

[Mustardseed]

Expected

[Beth]

Everyone,

My last post in this thread was most definately reactionary.  And I apologize.  But why all of this has to happen at all I really do not know.  

Mustardseed--if the research that I have been presenting here for almost 3 months now, is in your opinion so "outrageous" then why have you continued to read it, and continued to post in the threads where you know I am going to be saying things that you do not want to hear?  Because when you do, and I refute your claims or present even more material that you do not like, then all of the sudden I am somehow infringing on your right to believe as you choose.  This is absurd.  

No one is forcing you read my research or respond to it.  If we were, now THAT would most definately be infringing on your rights--but you are reading the threads where my research is posted and you are posting to these threads of your own free will Mustardseed.  You come into a thread and then argue about it instead of try to learn some new things that you have not had the opportunity to learn yet.  That is why I was so aggravated in my last post.

If, on the other hand, you don't want to learn anything new, then just don't read the threads where I have made posts, or go to a forum where people post more along the lines of your own thinking.  

But stop accusing me, Adrian and the other members of this board of somehow mistreating you or not giving you a voice.  And Wisp, stopping accusing us as well.  Mustardseed, we hear your voice loud and clear--we just simply disagree.

Beth  

[wisp]

Beth,
Sorry to come off sounding accusing. Actually I was trying to "critique".In other words,to be the response of the skeptic, the sounding out of your ideas against my standard. My standard is similar (though not exact) to others. If I was reading this solo, no verbalization is necessary. I have joined the discussion, therefore I "voice". We are not dealing with scientifically provable material, but ideas and precepts. A literist has to wade through your thoughts and material differently than those who are are on your side of the fence. Instead of keeping to your mindset that the literist is what you have perceived (that which you repeat over and over again), at least be open minded that we may be right in part. This may give you window or view you haven't thought about before. I have dream work ideas about the bible. Your information may be valuble for building on that for me. It's kind of hard to think dream material when part of the picture is being cut out. I'm trying to listen. I'm also trying to listen to MustardSeed. Let him bloom. He is a gentle person having to be in armour here.

It takes a while for one person to know another. I wasn't aware of your sensitive nature until all this blew up. Now that I know this, I will be more tactful. Plus, as I gather more of your purpose, I will stay clear of your stream.

Beth:

quote:Mustardseed, we hear your voice loud and clear--we just simply disagree.

IMO: I see more similarities than differences.

[Mustardseed]

Hi Beth
First I do not find your research to be outrageous at al. I find it very interesting and though I might not draw the conclusions you do I certainly accept your right to your opinion.

What I did find outrageous was this

(BETH)
We have tip-toed around you guys for too long.

Good people have spent many hours on this board offering you and Mustardseed (and whoever else) a great deal of very important information -- FREE OF CHARGE. We are the ones who have invested the time, the effort, and the expense to educate ourselves. We bought the books, took the classes, and studied the languages--for you. We decided to share all that we have learned with you, because we know how very hard it is to get the education that we have. We also know that it is not feasible for everyone to do.

But what do you do instead of be grateful for the free education that you are receiving? You insult and criticize instead of learn of things you do not know. Instead of filling these pages full of empty and petty criticism, you should be taking advantage of what is offered to you here. You should be asking more questions of us instead of bringing the valid questions of others to a screeching halt with your circular arguments and marytr complexes. If you or Mustardseed want to be my teacher--then do your homework, get the credentials and make some intellectual sense for a change.
(end qoute)

I find it wrong that you put yourself up as the teacher , call us petty unintelligent, and demand that we have and show you credentials (I assume from some Univercity) before we are allowed to discuss your research. Contrary to your classroom we are not depending on you to teach us, and I find the comments were as Wisp said very elitist. Maybe I could find a better word but that word was allready used. Then to top it off Adrian applauds your "robust" way of dealing with this dissention or whatever we call it, in my opinion not fair, and not being a good moderator.

I never sought for teachers on this board and resent being put in your class. Thats all. Please try to understand that it is not your research or Adrians nor your beliefs but the rather autocratic way these things are being presented. As I said I am not a fundementalist and will not do penance and accept the blame for all the mistakes Christians have made down the ages.

Regards Mustardseed

[wisp]

Mustardseed,
I think we are an incidental presence (possibly a hinderous...oops) of what "they" are trying to do. It's not a personal attack MS. They have received the message. Your specifics you are now talking about are essentially voided by way of Beth's quote.

quote:My last post in this thread was most definately reactionary. And I apologize.

It was just a "reactionary" statement,and of no consequence. If I may be so bold as to suggest, get an eraser and wipe it from your blackboard. It never happened (try it, it works []).
Imo, what Adrian thinks of us is neither here or there. I'm sure he is only encouraging and pushing Beth forward in a good way. I'm just a little slow catching on to some things. I'm just wanting to clue you into the same thing.It doesn't mean we have to agree about it, just allow them some freedom too.

BTW- Great OBE you have written about in another forum!

[Beth]

Wisp,

You wrote:  

quote:We are not dealing with scientifically provable material, but ideas and precepts.

In order to be scientifically accurate, it must be provable again and again and again, regardless of who does the experiment.  As far as what the bible says after translation it actually is scientifically provable.  It is language, and everytime you translate a particular name--you get the same result--time and time again.  

My name is Beth--in Hebrew this means "house."  The word "El" means God.  The proper name "Bethel" is a combination word that means "House of God."  "Zachar" means "remember."  "Zachariah" means "remember God" or "God remembers."  "Halak" means "go to."

If I wanted to say "remember God and go to the house of God" I would write "Zachariah, Halak, Bethel."  In the form of proper names--"Zachariah, Halak, and Bethel" could be characters in a story that I am telling. I could have them on the surface level doing whatever I wanted them to do, e.g., go shopping at the mall.  But that would not imply that the "mall" is the house of God, but rather that there is a God TO remember, and that there is a House of God to go to.  Where that House of God actually is, the verse may not say, but with this particular type of interpretation, you only interpret the proper names--not the other words in the verse.  

All of the people involved in the biblical stories have names that are built from the Hebrew vocabulary in the same way.  When these names are translated they reveal very definate meanings.  When a group of names are used in a particular order, e.g. a genealogy for example, the translation reveals a particlar new level of verse.  When the same names are joined with other names, and listed in a different order, the overall translation says something different. But the words or "key motifs" are the same nonetheless.  How do I know this?  I have found where many ancient writers including St. Augustine did this very thing.  I have also done it myself many times using the many "lists" that are scattered throughout the Bible.  The result is truly amazing Wisp--these writers used pure literary genius to write these scriptures.

This was language based mysticism, ancient style, and they were using language to its utmost capacity.  When they wrote the bible--they were doing so with this method as a primary tool.  

I think there are 2 major things going on here at the AP:

1--What you perceive me to be doing
and
2--What I am actually doing.

I am "not" speaking to you from "my religion."  I am "not" making any personal claims about the nature of the Godhead.  I am "not" trying to hurt anyone here.  

I am not writing a "new scripture" or the "gospel of Beth" as I think you or someone accused me of, nor am I making claim to having some prophetic understanding of what the bible "really says" without any backup proof.  The proof is in the language that the bible was written in.  I just happen to know Hebrew and know my way around a Hebrew lexicon.  No, wait, I don't just "happen" to.  I have studied very hard for a number of years to learn all that I have--and Hebrew is NOT an easy language to learn.  So, I am just sharing here what the scripture "really says" based upon my knowledge of the language and my knowledge of the people who were writing in antiquity.

What I AM doing is trying my best to begin to clean up a language nightmare that was not created my me, nor has it ever been sanctioned by me.  The religions involved are the ones that allowed for the stories to be thought true Wisp--not me.  I have not done anything underhanded, or am I trying to "read something in" that isn't there. The findings of my research is NOT my opinion--it is just the way that it is.

I can only assume that this information needs to come out right now, or else I would not possess it.  I have to assume it is time...

On Mustardseed being a gentle soul:  Sometimes he does seems so, BUT, there have been a great many times where he has come at me personally, making fun of me, calling me names -- including the insinuation that I am the anti-christ vis-a-vis my research. He has tried to argue scripture with me in English, when I know what the original Hebrew and Greek says, and he has tried to provide his own proof that my proof just supercedes.  I know it is frustrating for him, and deeply hurtful, but I cannot tell him it is correct or okay to accept the literal interpretation of scripture as TRUTH, when I know that it is not.  That would not be responsible on my part, nor very nice of me if I did.  

It might seem the "nice thing to do" but let's say one of your friends knew something about your husband or boyfriend that you "really should know"--wouldn't you want that friend to tell you?  Or--would you rather just continue to live in ignorance with him regardless of the truth of his actions? And think about how your friend would feel everytime she was around your husband--knowing what she knew--and yet all the while you prefer to "not know the truth."

As I said above, Mustardseed can continue (and you as well) to believe whatever you are comfortable with.  But that does not change the fact that the biblical scripture in the original languages, written by it original authors, says something very different.

Beth

[Beth]

Mustardseed,

You wrote:  

quote:I never sought for teachers on this board.

 That's too bad--because I am always looking at other people as my teachers.  I am, at all times, a student.  I hold the view that we are all both teachers and students.  If I hear from someone something that I did not know before, then that person has been my teacher.  If I then share with that someone something that they didn't know before, then I have, in turn, been their teacher.  

You then wrote:

quote:and resent being put in your class. Thats all

Then, like I said, you should not have entered into any thread where I had posted my research.  You did this, everytime, of your own free will.  No one ever made you open the threads, so your resentment should not be aimed at me, or Adrian, or Robert, but rather at yourself because you "kept coming back for more."

You wrote:

quote:I find it wrong that you put yourself up as the teacher, call us petty unintelligent, and demand that we have and show you credentials (I assume from some Univercity) before we are allowed to discuss your research.

I have never demanded that you have a degree to discuss my research--quite the contrary. I have encouraged you to ask questions--you just haven't liked the answers that I gave you. If by my taking the time and expense of getting my degrees somehow makes you feel "unintelligent" that is of your own making. For I have tried to save you the time and expense of doing so yourself by sharing with you what I have learned. I have tried to encourage everyone here that they can all understand what I am sharing.  And everyone can--unless they are so stubborn that they won't even try.  

Beth

[Mustardseed]

Beth:
I will only make one other point on this post of yours and that is--most intelligent people around the globe recognize that "religious stories" are just that--religious "stories"--important stories that tell of religious things
(end qoute)

Dear Beth
I think we should end it here and just let it sit for a while. It seems obvious to me that you have quite a high opinion about yourself and your research. (however right or interesting it might be). You are no longer asking questions but appear to have found the answer. You are a teacher, or would like to be thought of as one. I actually think you must be a teacher in real life on some faculty, maybe even student counsellor or something. You portray that attitude of "faculty"!. That would match my profile. Maybe this is why you behave this way.

However your answer is not obvious to me. You will ofcourse say that this is becourse I have not got the same knowledge of languages you are more educated and can dive deeper so to speak.

You have an answer to everything. You are never in doubt. You a ...right and unquestionable, so we are not on the same page at all.

So lets leave it there Beth

Regards Mustardseed