What not to do...

[Dragen]

Huwie!
Congratulations!  I'm not sure I would consider that a failure if I were in your shoes.  That's called "Progress" and you got closer than you ever got before.  As you know, (from my own thread) the closest I have gotten is feeling very intense vibrations and loud humming, and feeling like my body was heavy and then weightless.

But for me, it has only happened once.  I'm having difficulties getting back to that point.  I would be interested to hear your personal experiences using Robert Bruce's techniques in detail.

Wow!  What a great experience.  I enjoyed reading it!

[Nay]

I Ditto that!  I feel your excitement!!

I would say that was great progress.  That darn fear..grrrrr, I use to get it really bad.  Just keep on doing what you are doing, and soon it will lessen with time.

I could never get the rope method to work for me.[] I would tense up, glad to hear it works well with you.

Really happy for ya, Huwie! []

Nay []

[Huwie]

[:I]

Thanks for your kind words, Dragen!  I suppose I should be seeing it in a more optimistic light, as you suggest.

As for your questions, I'll reply here rather than split my reply between this thread and yours.

The ROPE technique is astoundingly good, but I agree that it's difficult sometimes.  Let me tell you something, Dragen - I was having exactly the same problem as you at first!  Namely, I was visualising the rope instead of feeling it.  To get around that, I used two methods.  Firstly, I think RB has said somewhere that it's easier to imagine you're climbing in the dark.  That helped.  Also, my own method, was to imagine that climbing the rope is difficult.  Imagine you're really heavy and that you have to really struggle for every inch.  I think that the reason it works is that it focuses your concentration a lot more.  I know it works because I practically projected yesterday morning, as I said.  It's just that that damned 'fear of the unknown' beat me.  The fear of the heart chakra is nothing compared to it.

Speaking of which, yeah, your heart probably is beating rapidly.  RB says it's just the chakra, but after an attempt I will feel my pulse and discover it really is my heart beating.  However, all I can say is that it isn't anything to worry about.  It's probably just caused by the adrenaline.  I find that the closer I get to projection, the faster my heart beats.  But trust me on this, dude - it really isn't anything to worry about.  Something that helped me here was something I read in Robert Monroe's book Far Journeys.  He said that in some 25 years of experimentation, absolutely no harm had ever come to the experimenters, physiological or otherwise.  Reading that made me feel a lot better, and the next time I attempted to project I realised that I had defeated my fear of the heart chakra.

Regarding the chakra stimulation.  In order, this is what I do (I stick closely to RB's methods).  First, I use my mental hands to pull energy up through my legs.  I try not to visualise my hands (although I find that chakra stimulation isn't ruined by visualisation), I just imagine what it would feel like.  I don't so much grab the energy and yank it up as RB suggests...instead I kind of 'waft' it up.  Give it encouragement.  Then, I open my base chakra exactly as RB suggests.  I have no idea what a chakra is supposed to look like, so I just use a general opening action with one of my mental hands.  After that, I continue to send energy into the chakra, and beyond it.  Then I simply open successive chakras in the same method.  For the crown chakra, I imagine pulling it open from beneath, i.e. from inside my head.  I then spend a few minutes dragging the energy through my body (always upwards), through each chakra in turn.  I concentrate on chakras that I think need it, I like to keep it all balanced.

I think that's everything you asked about.  Please feel free to ask any more questions if you like.  Hopefully, soon, I'll be projecting so I should be of a lot more help to you.  And don't ever give up!  No matter how depressed I get about my failures, I always try again with as much passion as the last time.  Good luck! []

[Huwie]

Hehe, thank you Nay!  Very kind of you to say so.  I find that ROPE works wonders, it's a magical technique!  If you ever feel inclined to try it again, maybe employ the slight variations I use?

Anyway, thanks again for the encouragment.  I'm sure you know how much it means to me right now! []

[Huwie]

Oh, one more thing Dragen.  You said you only got to that point once, and haven't achieved it since.  That also happened to me.  My second and third attempts didn't even result in heavy vibrations, just a little bit.  After thinking about it, I realised that I simply hadn't relaxed my body enough.  As RB says in his treatise, the inital relaxation stage is VERY important.  He's right.  Whenever I make an attempt since then, I always make damn sure my body is relaxed as can be before I even start on my chakra work.  All my attempts have been really close ever since. []

[Dragen]

Huwie!
Thank you for spending your time sharing your personal techniques with us.  I am going to try some of the things you suggested and see if that yields better results.  I guess you're right about the ROPE technique and making sure you don't visualize it.  It's just really hard!  I also think you may be on to something with the "relaxed state" before attempting to move further.  I've never been clear on this, whether or not i'm REALLY comfortable and relaxed.  (Even though it seems I am?)

I don't have a real comfortable chair or recliner, so I do this laying down on my bed.  I wonder if propping my head up will help?

[Huwie]

I dunno mate, despite RB's advice I always lie down on my back, with my head parallel with the floor.  Seems to work for me...

But yeah, be as relaxed as possible.  I dunno if I'm naturally good at this type of thing or not, but I seem to have no trouble at all achieving meditative states and ignoring rogue thoughts and things.  I have a topic around here somewhere (in the energy body devlopment forum) called 'Quick meditation question', and in it I outline my meditation technique.  It helps me a lot, so maybe it would help you too.

As for ROPE, I cannot stress enough how much better I became at the technique when I imagined myself as being really heavy, so I really had to try hard to 'climb' it.  You're right, it is difficult to avoid picturing it.  The best advice I can give you here is to try and focus your visual awareness on the blackness of your eyelids.  Just never stop climbing that rope, not even for a second!

[m0d0]

Hey Huwie,

Sounds like you made real progress with that last attempt. I havent got to the lifting stage yet. But theres definately something goin on []

I think i mentioned in a previous post somewhere on the site that im gonna give the heavy ROPE a try because up until know ivebeen as light a feather.

Once were all fully able to project, we'll have to meet up and go for a pint down the local astral pub [8D]

Have u tried Brain Wave Generator? I don't think it works for everyone but it's certainly my cup of tea. Maybe it might do the same for you.

[Huwie]

Hi m0d0

That's an excellent suggestion, I'd love to meet up with you guys! []

I've tried to project twice since this thread but I've been disturbed both times, bah!  I've tried the BWG, yeah, and I love it!  It cures my headaches, it helps me relax, or it wakes me up with the attention-focussing (cyclic) presets.  With regard to AP, though, I wouldn't really want to try to be honest.  It may very well work, but I'd rather be able to do it on my own, know what I mean?  Besides, getting to the exit stage isn't too much of a problem for me, it's just the letting go I have a problem with.

[m0d0]

I Know what you mean with BWGEN. I dont want to become dependant upon it, so i eventually plan to ween myself of it.

Just a note about your previous post as well -

I havent encountered the fear of the unknown yet and was kind of apprenhensive about doing so. That is until i read this lovely little paragraph by Robert Bruce.

"Many people feel there is something evil waiting for them, or a nasty spirit trying to stop
them projecting. This must be faced with courage! Look upon it as a test, an exam that
must be passed before you can project freely. Once you do project, and face it, you will
find it is only a hollow threat that will crumple into nothing.
"

Once i read that, i have no worries at all and hopefully will just be able to take the experience in my stride. Hope it helps you as well.

Cheers,

Mo!

[Huwie]

Hehe, thanks m0d0!  There's so much information in that treatise that it's easy to miss something.

I will certainly bear that in mind next time I begin my preparations.  Much obliged! []

[Dragen]

Hey Huwie and M0d0!
The "Astral Pub" sounds like a great idea!  It looks like we have a goal now don't we?!  And don't you worry, the tab is on me!

Just a quick little follow-up about the ROPE technique, since this thread is focusing on it quite a bit.  (No pun intended, HAR!)  Ok that was lame.. lol, but I am still having a hard time with the rope technique.. and I suddenly came up with the idea to "borrow" that concept and I used a LADDER instead of a rope.  For me, this has helped tremendously.  

While this concept is still new, it seems to yield the same results as the rope, but it works better for me.  I think I do better climbing a huge extended ladder in pitch black, then trying to climb a rope.  I can "feel" the metal and the footsteps and "hear" the creeking of the ladder as I climb.  I think it's working very well.. maybe you guys could try it and see if it works as well or better?

Cheers!

[Huwie]

That's an interesting concept, Dragen!  I'm going to keep on with ROPE for a little while longer though, because - and this is probably just me - I think that if I can't do it with a rope then I won't be able to do it with anything.  Besides, I know rope works because I almost got out before, and it was just my stupid fear that stopped it.

I have a new problem now.  I think I've finally defeated that fear, but what that has done is made me over-keen to project.  So now I'm starting to rush it and getting too frustrated when nothing happens.  Bah!

I really need to stop thinking about it and just let it happen. [|)]

[Dragen]

Hey Huwie!
Yep, you use what works best for you.  I just posted some ideas if there is anybody out there who is having troubles with the ROPE technique.  Who knows, it may just work!  But it's funny how many of us go through the same things.  Just like you, I have been overly "keen" and tried rushing (or tried too hard) to project ever since that first time.  

So here is what i'm doing to take the "pressure" off.  I want to project, that is my ultimate goal.  But right now, everything starts with a trance state.  I just want to relax.. and get in to the trance state.  That's my goal.  The projection is a secondary thing... if I have the capability to do it, then i'll sure try, but not expect anything.  I just want to maintain that trance.  Robert Bruce even recommends getting used to entering this state and maintaining it.

Entering that state of mind has been a load off my chest.  I feel like I can meditate better now that I am strictly focusing on energy, relaxation, and trance.  With the "expectation" and overwhelming "desire" to project being out of the picture.. you can focus on the most important part... meditation and relaxation.. and if I have time.. i'll toss in the projection!

Remember, Robert Bruce even stated relaxation and trance is the SECRET to this whole thing.  I think many of us try and skip steps on that high stairway!

[Huwie]

You're right!  That's the best idea yet, I'm going to try that too.  We have our whole lives, right?

This has the added bonus of being more practical when there probably isn't quite enough time or peace to try a full-on projection.  I think I've been getting too sure of my meditation skills lately.  Thanks for pulling me out of the clouds, so to speak. [|)]

[Dragen]

Yep, you're right.  We do have our whole lives.  That trance state is a big accomplishment in my book.  And it does bring you a sense of peace and weightlessness.  In this state, you can focus on developing your Chakras capabilities.. which we all know is incredibly important!

I think it will be one of those things, where you just "know" it's time to do it.  It has to come natural!

I wish you the best of luck Huwie.. if you do get out before me.. give me a hand and yank me out will ya?  []

[m0d0]

Hey Dragen, Huwie.

The ladder sounds like an interesting modification and if it's what works for you then thats what you should do. I think the learning curve were all in requires us to make these little modifications to suite whats best for are personal selves. At the very least the modifications will help because you believe it too. That kind of self belief is important (By making changes we truly believe where making progress, therefore we are).

Like Huwie though, i'm gonna stick with the ROPE method because (Agen like Huwie) i have gotten close using it.

Although tonight my attempts completely bombed. I don't whether it was down to tiredness or just the wrong frame of mind, but i didnt get anywhere close to where i was yesterday. I got realxed an all but no further. As backup though i worked on my Chakras so at the very least i did a little bit to help me in the future.

Dragen, its definate go for the PUB expedition, we'll have a celebratory drink (Don't quite know how yet, but as they say 'where theres a will, theres a way) []

This pub needs a name. Any ideas?

My first obvious attempt is 'The Astral Inn' but there has to be a more clever name out there. Get ya thinkin caps on. [)]

[m0d0]

Just an added note before i slip off to the land of nod.

Early this evening, when i was bombing. I did managed to get real realxed. Now when im meditating i tend to lie or sit with my hands resting on my thighs (Instead of by my side) When i was in deeo relaxation mode, it felt like my hands had sunk into my thighs. It was a pretty interesting and new feeling.

Just wondered if any of you's have it at all?

Finally, i think one of the other reasons i bombed today was because i set out directly to AP. Sounds like i got the same over-determined attitude to nailing this thing as you both.

So great advice Dragen, i think im gonna take a leaf and just bring myself down a peg or two (Now thats a lamer pun concerning your ladder mod) and concetrate on honing my meditation skills before attempting to AP hehee.

Cheers,

Mo!

P.S - jus thought of another name. 'The Astral Arms' (How sad am i, i actually started a list).

[Huwie]

LOL m0d0!  Nah it's a good idea actually, we need a good sign for it anyway, so it'd better have a name as well.

"Now when im meditating i tend to lie or sit with my hands resting on my thighs (Instead of by my side)"

Yeah, I do that too actually.  I've no idea why, I didn't even think of it until you mentioned it.

So you're being thwarted by over-eagerness too, huh?  This is so ironic.  If it isn't one thing, it's another.  At least it was one way of beating the fear of the unknown.  Now I'm just so ticked off I can't project I really couldn't care less what happens when I finally do it, I just wanna do it!

[Dragen]

LOL Huwie!  You sound overly excited again!  I thought you were going to take it easy so you can lower the anxiety?  []

I can't blame you though.. I feel the same way!
As for your hand locations, I have found that my hands cannot, in any way be touching each other or be "too close" to one another.  If they are touching, the heat from each hand distracts me, and it can cause you to sweat over time.  

I will either have my hands at my sides, or I will put them on my chest, approximately 2 inches from each other.  

Works great!  Am I crazy?  I think i'm crazy.  The voices try to convince me that i'm not.. but I know I am.  Or is it the other way around?  

[]

[Huwie]

Hehehe, well I'd be lying if I said I wasn't really excited about the prospect of getting out of my hellishly unfit body for a while. []

The first time I tried to project I had my hands on my chest, and so the racing heart was even more alarming, so ever since then they never rest on my chest when I make an attempt.

[m0d0]

I think were all crazy Dragen lol. It's healthy, i love being crazy. At least i think i do... Sometimes when i argue with myself in the mirror wearing a bear suite i get confused. But 90% percent of the time im crazy happy.

I'm not sure what it was for me. I think maybe it was a mixture of over-eagerness and Tiredness. I dunno, gonna give medtation another crack of the whip tonight and see what occurs (Notice me, playing it all calm like) hehee.

Never tried meditationwith my handson mychest before... Hehee my heart Chakra already beats like a mo-fo when im in a trance. I wouldnt want to do anything to increase it. God knows what would happen if i did.

[Dragen]

Haha!  A bear suit!  []
This thread as turned in to the Huwie/Dragen/m0d0 thread.  It has been flagged as a "hot forum" because of all the posts.  But I think if people read it, they would be bored with it!  lol  [B)]

Last night, I attempted to project.. but it didn't work well and I ended up falling asleep.  I was in the middle of having sporatic dreams, when I woke up in the middle of the night.. just enough to slip into consciousness.  My body was asleep just minutes after.  Pretty simple that was!  But after countless attempts to use the ROPE technique, or my LADDER variation I got absolutely no-where.

I must admit, i'm feeling really frustrated.  I don't think i'll give up, but seeing some kind of results or progress would be nice.

Oh, Huwie, I saw you added me to your MSN Messenger list and it asked me to add you to mine.  So I should see you soon!

[Huwie]

Sure thing, Dragen.  I'll see you online!

Have either of you tried the NEW techniques available on the website?  I only realised last night that they were free to peruse.  I think I'll have a good look through that and see what I can see.  In other news, attempting to project after only 5 minutes of meditation isn't a good idea... []

[Zarklon]

Hey , correct me if I'm wrong but .. that experience happened after you had some rest or in the morning ?  It seems that most people's experiences happen after a long rest or unless they can get their bodies to that "after a long rest state".. at least thats how it has felt through my year or so of experience.. I'm able to have an OBE at least 90% of the time if I do it in my first class of the day at school. I take 2 naps before arriving at school.. (2 busses).  So I think meditation and stuff helps to get to that state im talkin about but it seems to be effortless if you've just woken up and are still a bit tired. IF you go to bed at 12midnight and wake up at 6am or 6:30am ,  then walk around or eat breakfast without waking yourself up to much .. within 20 or 30 minutes , you should be in the state I project in..  It has something to do with how tired your body still is and how awake your mind has become from brushing your teech , or making your breakfast.. I project form a sitting position so I dont fall asleep as easy.  I hope this helps , Icant type much cause I'm in class right now.  Good luck !  

PS: The fear of the "unknown" goes away in time. Luckily I havent had that cause I didnt really care what was happening .. maybe you should have the same attitude "SO what! Just leave my body!" Heh.. I dunno , peace!