Proof Of God's Existence

[Kerrblur]

Now I have far greater respect for you now, I apologize.  But you showed good things to me, thank you.  I was just kinda upset how this discussion turned into something different.  I have a open mind, and I'm not well educated in the bible yet.  But did alot of what I'm doing now, asking questions, thats how I came up with a proof of gods existence, but theres something far greater that you, me, and many  others with the exception of a few that might understand, that there IS a connection between this stuff.

 Please believe that what you write back to me, when I trust you described it in full, is printed down in a document book I am keeping.  Trying to understand this stuff from all different angles.  took me a second to understand your angle but I got it now, and its good stuff.  one last question to you though,

Explain in full detail like you did the others, about the guides. . .
guides/angels/higher spirits, are they not the same?  at my church they call them angels, I call them guides, you know, but tell me why there from hell.

 I have 12 credit hours in Psychology, they all tell you the same thing, but does science prove all this ESP, TK, telepathy mumbo-jumbo? lol noooo

anyway, except my apologies, took me a minute to understand your view-point. . .

Thanks,

[bomohwkl]

I have no wish to go into details into the all the mistakes and illogical statements in the bible as I have little interested further studying more.

Would you be interested to examine a rubbish tip just to find out what is there?

However, I will only quote one of them. (source from the book Thiaoouba Prophecy)

'In Chapter 18, verse (1) the scribe refers to our appearance at that time, saying: 'The Lord God appeared unto him among the oaks of Mamre as he sat at the entrance to his tent in the heat of day.' The scribe is speaking of Abraham in this chapter.

'(2) He, Abraham, looked up and saw three men standing nearby.

When he saw them he ran to them and fell to the ground before them.

(3) And he said, 'Lord and master, if I have found grace in your eyes, I beg you not to go far from your servant.' Abraham invites the three men to stay. The scribe refers to them as men one minute and yet one of them is also called 'the Lord God'. He speaks to them and each time, it is the one referred to as 'the Lord God' who replies. Now, the priests of the Roman Catholic Church find this in formal contradiction with their views, as do many other religions, for they will tell you that no one can imagine the face of God - that one would be blinded by it. In a sense they are right, since the Creator, being a pure spirit, has no face!

'According to the scribe, Abraham converses with the Lord God as he would with a high ranking lord on Earth. And the Lord God answers him and is accompanied by two other 'men' - the scribe does not speak of 'angels'. Isn't it odd that God comes down to Earth in the form of a man, accompanied, not by angel]s, but by men? Actually, there, and in many other places in the Bible, it is easy for someone of good faith to see that God has never spoken to any human being.

'He could not have done so, since it is astral bodies which aspire towards Him and not God who leans towards them. That would be like a river flowing backwards - you have never seen a river flowing from the sea to the mountaintop, have you? A passage from the Bible, two pages further on from the one just mentioned, is also quite amusing: Chapter 19, verse (1): 'The two angels arrived in Sodom, and Lot was seated at the gates to Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to go and kiss the ground in front of them' - then he manages to get them to go to his house, and suddenly, in verse five, 'They called Lot and said to him: 'Where are the men who entered your house?'. Now the scribe is referring to them as 'men'. Next, in verse (10), 'The men reached out, made Lot come inside and closed the door.' (11) 'And they struck blind everyone at the entrance to the house, from the smallest to the largest person, so that it was useless for them to try to find the door.'

'It is easy to see the lack of precision in this passage, where the scribe begins by speaking of two angels, then speaks of two men, and then describes two men striking people blind. According to the Bible, such a 'miracle' requires at least an angel! There my dear, is another good example of confusion in Earthly scripts. The 'men' were quite simply our men from Thiaoouba.

[kakkarot]

so what, exothen: we have no souls then? because that's the ONLY way that we would have no spiritual abilities/understandings, is to have the absence of a spiritual body with which to perform spiritual things. our moral conscience is a part of our soul and it one of the more obvious aspects of our souls existance AND USE.

i know MANY people who have TURNED AWAY from God and yet STILL FOLLOW MORAL CODES of conduct. according to you, such things would be impossible apart from God, if we are spiritually dead to God and therefore use our spirits through satan. and don't even try to counter by trying to declare that apart from God a person can know no morality because that's just bull.

and next, ok let's take it away from "taking a crap" and doing something like, for instance, doing a good dead like opening a door for an old lady. according to you, it would be impossible for us to do this unless we are christians because if non-christians are spiritually dead then they can know no good since "only the Father in heaven is good".

your ideas might be good as mere ideas, but they do not fit with reality. and before any theory can be labelled as true it must pass two tests: an internal test and an external test. in an internal test, the theory is tested to see if it holds up to itself, ie does it contradict itself or does it fit perfectly within it's own ideas? the second test is to take the theory and hold it up to what we've seen of reality and see if reality doesn't prove the theory to be wrong, ie i could make a perfect theory about how water is the cause of all gravity and have it hold up within itself but it would fall apart as soon as someone proved that something with absolutely no water in it created a gravitational field. that is how it is with your ideas: they are ideas that are not shown to be true by reality.

as for your arguments about sorcerers knowing false gods rather than the real God, i won't even waste my time on that false logic.

and as for the supposed accuracy of today's translations: then which one is it? or do you believe them all to be accurate? have you even looked at different translations of passages?

~kakkarot

[exothen]

Van-Stolin,

quote:What was said in the passage was when Adam was hiding from God. God askes why Adam is hiding and where he is hiding. Now in the bible it also says that God is all knowing and all seeing, so why would he have to ask Adam these things?

There is no contradiction at all. God is asking Adam a rhetorical question to get Adam to own up to his sin. From there, you see the typical human patter - Adam blames Eve, she then blames the serpent.

This example actually fits well with this discussion since the serpent deceived Adam and Eve into believing they would "be like God." Is this not part of New Age philosophy: that we all have some sort of "god-consciousness" and we can develop it to eventually achieve oneness with "God," thus becoming equal with "God?" Believing that lie got us seperated from God in the first place and will continue to do so for those who follow such beliefs.

Also, it was the sin of pride (believing that we can do things our way, apart from God)that got us removed from intimate fellowship with God. That is what I see in here all the time. Wanting spiritual power apart from God, believing that it is in ourselves, and seeking knowledge and wisdom about spiritual matters from a source other than God all comes from a sense of pride and that was dealt with in Eden.

quote:Even with people saying that this power is bad, what do most do with it, they help people, they put it to good use and yet they are ridicled and put down.

It's great that people can do good things with this "power," if indeed such power exists. But that is the deception of it all - if it isn't from God, it doesn't matter what you do with it, it is still condemned.

Kerrblur,

quote:Explain in full detail like you did the others, about the guides. . .
guides/angels/higher spirits, are they not the same? at my church they call them angels, I call them guides, you know, but tell me why there from hell.

All angels, good and bad, were created at some point by God. The Bible says that a third of them tried to overthrow God, being lead by Lucifer/Satan/the devil, as I am sure you have heard. Now, I believe that all Christians may have angels guarding/guiding them and the Bible calls them "ministering spirits." The word "angel" means "messenger" in the Greek.

However, there is no need to ask for "spirit guides" especially since the Bible says that for Christians, the Holy Spirit will guide them. But to ask for guides apart from being a Christian and praying to God, means that there is only one other source for guides - fallen angels. They may have the appearance (if one can even see them) of looking nice, but the Bible says that even Satan "disguises himself as an angel of light" (2 Cor. 11:14). The whole point is deception - to make people think that they are getting spiritually closer to God when in fact they are further distancing themselves from God. If something isn't from God, it will not lead you closer to God.

[exothen]

bomohwkl,

For you and others who think there are thousands of errors in the Bible, the highest number I have come across according to scholars is about 40. And these are not necessarily errors, but difficulties, with none of them affecting Christian doctrine.

Such as the one you post. It is not illogical, nor contradictory; difficult...maybe.

quote:Now, the priests of the Roman Catholic Church find this in formal contradiction with their views, as do many other religions, for they will tell you that no one can imagine the face of God - that one would be blinded by it. In a sense they are right, since the Creator, being a pure spirit, has no face!

There is no contradiction at all. Christians believe in the Trinity and so it is most likely Christ who appeared. It is God the Father who no one has seen, or can see.

quote:Isn't it odd that God comes down to Earth in the form of a man, accompanied, not by angel]s, but by men?

No. If God himself came down in the form of a man, why couldn't the angels also come down in the form of a man? The other two 'men' are identified as angels in 19:1.

quote:It is easy to see the lack of precision in this passage, where the scribe begins by speaking of two angels, then speaks of two men, and then describes two men striking people blind. According to the Bible, such a 'miracle' requires at least an angel! There my dear, is another good example of confusion in Earthly scripts.

This is an example of someone who knows nothing of biblical interpretation trying to interpret scripture. There is no problem with referring to the two as 'men' or 'angels' since the context makes it clear that they are angels in the appearance of men.

[exothen]

kakkarot,

You're listening but not hearing. There is something lost in communication here.

quote:our moral conscience is a part of our soul and it one of the more obvious aspects of our souls existance AND USE.

I don't disagree with that.

quote:i know MANY people who have TURNED AWAY from God and yet STILL FOLLOW MORAL CODES of conduct. according to you, such things would be impossible apart from God, if we are spiritually dead to God and therefore use our spirits through satan.

According to me such things are not impossible. I agree that people can do good things apart from God. You are taking what I said way too far, as you did with your previous example.

My point was that all the spiritual things discussed about in here (I'll term them New Age beliefs for simplicity's sake), such as OBE, astral projection, mediums, channeling, psychic abilities, etc., if they are even real to begin with, draw their power from a source that is not of God.

quote:that is how it is with your ideas: they are ideas that are not shown to be true by reality.

You have yet to show how this true. I would also be interested in your views on any New Age spiritual phenomena since they are not shown to be true by reality.

quote:as for your arguments about sorcerers knowing false gods rather than the real God, i won't even waste my time on that false logic.

Why is it false? There are two sources of power - the greater is God, the lesser is Satan. Sorcery is not of God.

quote:and as for the supposed accuracy of today's translations: then which one is it? or do you believe them all to be accurate? have you even looked at different translations of passages?

The ones considered the most accurate are the NASB, RSV, and ESV. Some include the KJV. But even besides those, there are many other good translations out there and more are still coming out. Of course I have looked at passages in different translations, I own several and plan on getting more.

[Van-Stolin]

Yes there are a lot of people who are power hungry and have found that the quickist way to that is not following God, but you didn't see the part about where I said that Satan can not give power to the soul, he can empower the body, but not the soul. The power that we have has come from God and it needs to be unlocked with patience, if anyone tells you that they can do it for you then I wouldn't trust them.  I still follow God and I have asked spirits that I have meet if they belive in God and if Jesus is the savior, they anwser imeditly, yes.  You can ask Mustardseed for some more info on this as he has meet with some that will constantly avoid something like this.

We are not trying to be like God, but we do want to understand him better and we do this with these things.

[bomohwkl]

Do you think God is stupid or clever?
Are you sure of your answer?
How clever is God?

You already admit that there is some errors in the book of God. And you quote that the highest number is 40.
Is it much easier to write a book than designing a living human being? How much intelligence is required to design a living universe than just writing a book?
How can God make such obvious errors in a book yet able to design complex universe?

Aren't those imply that Bible is the book of God directly implies God is an idiot? An insult to God?

If there is 40 errors in a book of God, then how many errors are there in designing life and the whole universe?

[exothen]

Van-Stolin,

quote:but you didn't see the part about where I said that Satan can not give power to the soul, he can empower the body, but not the soul.

You would have to clarify this a little more. I am not sure what you mean or what you are getting at. How do you even come to a difference of 'empowering the soul' and 'empowering the body' and that Satan does one and God does the other? How do you know that they both don't empower the body or both the soul?

quote:The power that we have has come from God and it needs to be unlocked with patience, if anyone tells you that they can do it for you then I wouldn't trust them.

Power from God is not something that we unlock or use at our leisure. The power of God is for the sole purpose of building up and edifying the church and to advance the gospel. That is the only kind of power God gives and it is him working through Christians.

bomohwkl,

quote:Aren't those imply that Bible is the book of God directly implies God is an idiot? An insult to God?

If there is 40 errors in a book of God, then how many errors are there in designing life and the whole universe?

No, no, and none. The original autographs that were written were perfect. But in transmission and translation, there is some stuff that has brought about these difficulties. God is perfect, man isn't.

Besides, about 40 difficulties in a book the size of the Bible is next to nothing, which is why most acknowledge it is over 99% accurate.

[kakkarot]

there are thousands of sources of power in this universe. to say that it is either from God or from satan is just stupid. satan has at most the power of an archangel: which means he does NOT control very much power compared to how much is really out there, or anything compared to God (but then, what does control power comparable to what God does?)

you say that ALL scriptures are "God-breathed", how do you know?

~kakkarot

[exothen]

kakkarot,

quote: there are thousands of sources of power in this universe. to say that it is either from God or from satan is just stupid

And why is that? Because you say so? It is less stupid than saying there are thousands of sources. What thousands of sources might there be?

Maybe we could say that all power ultimately comes from God since he is all-powerful and created all; he gives power as it serves his purposes. Just a thought.

quote:you say that ALL scriptures are "God-breathed", how do you know?

Because the Bible says so. []

[Mustardseed]

Dear Exothen
I would like to ask you if you yourself practice any of the gifts of the spirit. More specifically, healing, tounges, dreams, visions, and prophecy. Do you know of any church where these gifts are encouraged? If yes where if no why?

I agree with you on most of your statements , however I find it sort of interesting that you seem to have a label for everything and a answer to every question "be always ready to answer any one who ask of the reason of the faith that is within thee" seems to be more relating to testemony of salvation. Are there any questions that your Church or reading the Bible does not answer. I mean along the lines of how it all works and how it all fits together.

You do come off as very self confident, you have the power of the written word but tell me what are your questions, do you have any?

Why are the Churches so spiritually dead and the Christians so divided why is there so little real love there and so much hypocracy, and spiritual pride.

Regards Mustardseed

[bomohwkl]

"The original autographs that were written were perfect. But in transmission and translation, there is some stuff that has brought about these difficulties"

Are you sure that you are reading the ORIGINAL autographs? How many translations and distortion the version of your Bible you are reading? Shouldn't you SEEK the ORIGINAL or the EARLIEST scribe possible?

Your claim of Bible is PREFECT, does it include the truthfulness of the fact that the world is created within SEVEN DAYS and the earth is just less than a million years old. Does it include the fact that the Earth is the center of solar system and the sun and the rest of the planets orbit with respect to the earth rather than the sun?
I am AMAZED if you still have such belief.
God isn't an IDIOT.

[Kerrblur]

Mustard Seed -

    Okay I have to claim that, you are the one and only person so far, as with cadieapple, to catch on to what I am trying to preach!!
Why is the churches SOOO spiritually dead? why are everyones eyes closed with arrogance?  thats my questions, and I have to answer them.  I wont give up

[kakkarot]

the bible says so, eh! well, if that's all it takes for something to be "God breathed", then this post is now God breathed (because it says so, just like the bible [|)]).

and it says: exothen, no more posting in this thread.

oh, and if all power ultimately comes from God, then the power of satan ultimately comes from God too, and therefore is just as useful to us as any other power, including God's own (no i don't believe this, i'm just following your reasoning).

~kakkarot [|)]

[Candieapple]

PART I
exothen:
I think it is unfortunate that the Bible condemns mediums, because mediums don't receive information from Satan, they receive it from spirit world. Since you "believe" in Satan, you've learned he exist in that hot, flaming hell-hole, not the plane of bliss of the spiritual realm.

I don't understand why you are condemning mediums, clairaudience and clairvoyance, when I don't think you realize what the definition terms of these things are. If you did, maybe we'd be on the same team.[]

Webster dictionary defines the following:
Mediums:  "an individual through whom other persons seek to communicate with the spirits of the dead and who is held by such persons to be a channel of communication between the early world of the living and a nontemporal spiritual realm of the departed."
Oracle: The revelation or response of a medium or priest.

I'll try to sum up pages of research My First Encounter With An Angel, pgs 102-105: To translate oracle from English to Hebrew (consulting The Englishman's Hebrew and Chaldee Concordance of the Old Testament) you would find two Hebrew words (I don't know how to type the symbols on the computer (book has it) we have: debir and dabar (dabar having ^ over the "a"s.) One should be aware that small dots and dashes underneath letters are vowels, which create the difference between the words, changing their meaning. In ancient times, the scribes DID NOT write the vowels in the Biblical text, thereby creating ambiguity as to the exact mean of many passages of the Bible.

The Englishman's Hebrew and Chaldee Concordance of the Old Testament indicates debir (as a noun) means 'the place where oracles were given'. The Theological Wordbook for the Old Testament explains that debir ...refers to the holy of holies and is translated sixteen times in the King James Version (KJV) and ASV as "oracle".

Dabar (with ^over a's) is also a noun that can mean oracle. . The Theological Wordbook for the Old Testament explains as "....is translated eighty-five different ways in KJV!...basically means what God said or says." It is also used 1400 times in the Old Testament, examples:
And Moses told Aaron all the words of (dabar) the Lord.(Exo 4:28)
And God spake all these words (dabar), saying...(Exo 20:1 (The Ten Commandments)
a man had enquired at the oracle (dabar) of God...(2 Sam 16:23)
and see what answer (dabar) I shall return to him...(2 Sam 24:13)
according to the saying (dabar) of Elisha which he spake...(2 Kings 2:22)

The English language has no verb meaning "oracle", yet it exists in Hebrew and yet the Old Testament uses the verb form of oracle dabar (a verb with ^ over only the first "a") 1100 times:
As the Lord had spoke (dabar) unto him...(Gen 12:4). Also (Exo 33:11; 1 Kings 5:5; 2 Kings 1:3;  etc, etc,

The point is this is one of many examples where the psychic connotation of a Hebrew word was lost in the translation to English. English readers are left unaware that every time God spoke, it was to a medium who possessed the gift of clairaudience. So to translate correctly we would have "And the Lord spake unto Moses" would become "And Spirit oracularly spoke to Moses." But using a 21st century understanding of psychic science, this phrase would metamorphose into: "And Spirit clairaudiently spoke to Moses."


I don't care whether you think Paul was a medium or not, even though he was because he "heard" voices from the
Clairaudience:  the act or power of hearing something not present to the ear but regarded as objective reality.

The bible is filled with the gift of clairaudience, some examples of them hearing something not present to the ear....:
"And God spake unto Noah, saying" (Gen 8:15)
"And the Lord spake unto Moses saying" (num 8:1).
"Then the Lord called Samuel, Samuel" (1 Sam 3:4)
"This is the message which the Lord spoke to Jeremiah." (Jer 46:13) etc, etc, etc, etc,
get the point?


Clairvoyance: the ability to see images beyond the range of normal visions.

Abraham saw God (Gen 12:7); Moses saw the burning bush (Ex 3:2-6); and also Amos (1:2), Jeremiah (1:11-14), and Ezekiel (37:1-14) all saw psychic phenomena.

Exothen:  I was also wondering what you were doing on this web-site, since it was created by Robert Bruce who states that he is a energy clairvoyant on page 185, speaking about the "strobe effect".  

You quoted: "the source of clairvoyance and clairaudience are not of God!"

Oh dear![xx(] Do you consider being on this site and hob-nobing with hundreds of people endowed with clairvoyance and clairaudience conversing with people Satan speaks through?[:O] Maybe you should get off before you burn in hell's damnation![] By the way – do you possess any gifts? If so, are you sure its not Satan on the other end? RIDICULOUS. It would probably be beneficial to think "open-mindedly", use your common sense and research A LOT deeper, instead of just thinking what the church and the bible tells you too. You do have a mind of your own don't you?

Then you say "we have no power in and of ourselves" – Then go on about some New Age stuff. The heck with the new age. The problem is the church has separated everyone from God. We are NOT separate from God. Reason it out. Did God, the Creator – create us? Yes. Then we contain a part of those ENERGIES of the Creator, how can you be separate from that? Doesn't make sense. To think one is separate from God is a really sad "belief system". When I even say the words I can feel my soul mourn. Can't you? Now say to yourself – God and I are not separate. Doesn't that feel fabulous.[] Doesn't your soul just leap with joy! That is proof! What one feels is right. Not what their told to "believe". It has to be a "knowingness". A feeling experience that becomes your truth.

This goes hand to hand with:
My God quote –
God created all, therefore, god is all. Oh! By the way check out:

John 10:34   Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, you are gods'?
See, even Jesus says we have a piece of God Within us! God is all.

John 14:12   Verily, verily, I say to you, He that believes in me, the works that I do shall be do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go to the Father.

Jesus also acknowledges the gifts of the spirit and says we can do greater works than him.: the gifts of the spirit are: Clairaudience, clairvoyance, healing, materialization, OBE's, direct voice, apports, levitation, automatic writing, remote view, sending and receiving, dowsing, prophecy, dreams, psychometry, trance, etc. All these gifts are given to us and we were created by God, therefore, they are God given gifts. []Smile, God loves you![]

Part II to follow.

[Van-Stolin]

Thank you for making that clear.  If Jesus said it then we have nothing to fear and I will now leave this topic in your hands.

[kakkarot]

also don't forget that the hebrews defined witchcraft as dealing with evil entities, and sorcery as using your own magic towards selfish ends. both definitions make it impossible to use witchcraft and sorcery for God. now, using magic in conjunction with God's will means that you are not using it along the above definitions and so are not one of those two things.

and exothen, i hope you understand the fallacy of your logic which i pointed out in my previous post. i was being a jerk about it, but i needed to in order to make that point.

~kakkarot

[Kerrblur]

Candieapple, Van-Stolin, kakkarot, you people are beautiful with words, and educateing me, you have no idea how much i have to thank you, keep this discussion going because I will be making a large essay and when i get more educated with the bible, I will preach on a wednesday(pastor(SP?) picks me to speak for 45 minutes)

ong question for Candieapple- Please show me as many examples and summaries as you can with OBE's and the bible! thats my main concern right now, you have utterly turned my eyes around sideways, I went and got the angel book you told me to get!!!! [] [] []

But I need something for OBE's and is there ANYTHING relateing to the silver cord, from the physical to the spiritual body? anything relating to that, think about this, a not-well educated boy on religion, in 6 months is going to "edify" the church with spiritual gifts, and the correction that needs to be made, you people are gonna help me, and i will before hand, receive the few at this church that 'do' believe in spiritual gifts, to have them answer when i ask a question instead of getting the common 'cricket' noise lol then tomatoes thrown at me HeH.     thanks!

[exothen]

Candieapple,

That's all I have to say about your post at the moment.

kakkarot,

quote:i hope you understand the fallacy of your logic which i pointed out in my previous post. i was being a jerk about it, but i needed to in order to make that point.

I hope you realize that by that smile after I answered your question I was purposely giving you the answer you were fishing for. Maybe I should have used [] instead.

Note to all: I have exams starting on Saturday as well as a paper due that I am working on, so I will not be posting much at all until next Tue or Wed.

[kakkarot]

quote:Originally posted by exothen

kakkarot,

quote:i hope you understand the fallacy of your logic which i pointed out in my previous post. i was being a jerk about it, but i needed to in order to make that point.

I hope you realize that by that smile after I answered your question I was purposely giving you the answer you were fishing for. Maybe I should have used [] instead.

no, i had not realized that. i've spoken with many christians who make such simple logical mistakes with such enthusiasm, so i had merely thought you were making the same mistake. looks like i am the fool however [|)].

as to the thousands of sources of power, it *may* be a bit of an exageration (or it may not), but there are still more than merely two (God and satan). magic, psi, chi, ki, (unless you count chi and ki and psi as the same) kundalini, reiki, etc are all different external sources of power, yet why would it be that only magic (witchcraft) is condemned? well, there is evidence which points to the possibility (fact?) that king james changed certain words in the bible to suit his own desires, and one of those changes was to include witchcraft as an evil/unclean act.

as well, in the early days of the catholic church, the catholics seemed to have no shame in changing whatever they wanted in order to keep the masses in line, so who knows what they've done with the translations since.

and next, (and this one would get me in mega excrement from most christians of any denomination) the bible was not written as the end all and be all of what christians should be and do. the old testament i won't go into since i'm sure most people already believe it doesn't apply to us directly, but even the books and letters of the new testament were written for the purpose of trying to help new christians understand what they were getting into. and with only the pieces that we've found, how to we know there are not MORE letters/books out there which have a more full outlook on christian "duties" and whatnot? well, the quickest answer might be that God has given us all we need to know in the bible, but what about before "the bible" was compiled as a single book (a few hundred years after the death of christ, wasn't it?)? where was the "complete truth" for the christians living then? they didn't have the bible and yet they still kept the faith and kept it well enough that it eventually caught on (catholicism) and thrived as well (though possibly distorted).

it is not the words in the bible which people should be paying attention to (since Jesus who is the Christ is the Word of God according to the first few verses of John), it is the message which the bible contains. too many people get caught up in the mere words and don't understand the message they convey.

many are the times when God told the isrealits something DIRECTLY and within one generation they turned away from His Will. so why should we believe that God has "written" a single book that would be treated any differently?

and finally it is not the bible that people should be striving towards, it is God. the bible contains the message of the Christ and shows us how to know the Christ, for it is through the Christ that we come to know God. the message is also that while we are impure on our own and cannot hope to do enough good deeds to get us into heaven God has already made the blood sacrifice required so that we can be forgiven of our evil so that we would no longer be seperate from God. all we need to do is accept it and strive towards knowing God.

God is not a dead God, He is active in the world today as He has always been (though many denominations would believe otherwise), and He is guiding people to Him just as He always has been. so it is not in the bible that we should place our faith and our hopes, but in the Christ for it is through him that we can know God.

at least, that's my understanding of things [|)]. i could be wrong, but i'm sure that at least a few things i've said up there are correct.

good luck with your exams [|)].

~kakkarot

[Candieapple]

Part II:   It is extremely difficult to condense years of research and an abundance of information in a short essay, but here it is. If you don't get it – read the books like I did![]

Exothen: You spoke of Psychology when you quoted "we use all of our brains".  Well I would like to introduce you to "the magical brain" and a little Quantum Mechanics. This will bridge science and our divinity (like the kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed (Matt 13:31)) and will be in reply to exothen's quote: "we have no power in and of ourselves".  Well, not according to Quantum Mechanics and our "god-given brain".[]

In order to do this we need to get down to the very "tiny" quanta level. It proves we have a will/intent and an "observer" which together give heed to "consciousness and energy create the nature of reality".

In 1803, Thomas Young used the double-slit experiment. This experiment and the most important implication arising from the study of quantum mechanics is the role that the Observer (you and me) plays in the nature of reality. David Bohm, in his book Wholenss and the Implicate Order (London: Routledge, 1980), 134, concludes that "Rather, the primary emphasis is now on undivided wholeness, in which the observing instrument is not separable from what is observed". Modern quantum physicists are taking seriously the role of the Observer by exploring the relationship and role of consciousness in the material world. See Amit Goswami, The Self-Aware Universe (New York: Tarcher/Putnam, 1995). Even describing the true order of the universe is difficult because it involves something more than the physical world. It involves us, our minds, and our thoughts. When we observe mass, all the electrons stop exactly at the point that we observe them. See Fred Alan Wolf Taking the Quantum Leap, (New York: Harper & Row, 1989). What the observer "thinks" can become his reality.[]

Most people are taught to use less than ten percent of their brains. The typical human uses only a part of his neocortex, with very little activity in the midbrain and lower cerebellum. Each neuron in the cerebellum has a thousand times more connections than the neurons in the rest of the brain. That means a scraping of cerebellum, the size of your little fingernail, has more neutron connections than the whole neocortex! Wow! [:O] What's going on down there? And can we make better use of it? Jesus did not limit himself to the use of the neocortex, but instead expanded his mind and used the powers of his God-given lower cerebellum.[8D]

The neocortex (our altered ego/personality) is set up so we can do all the regular things humans do while awake, like talk, have fun, worry, whatever. The neocortex accommodates anyone from a nerd, to a sports hero, to a fabulous genius. No matter the stupidity, fame, or even smarts, a human can grow up, work hard, have some joys and sorrows, then die, all right inside the neocortex.[xx(]

The midbrain allows us to be psychic and to see into the future. It is the only part of the brain that is sensitive as a receiver to infrared radiation (8 hertz). Animals today are very telephathic because their brains are ultrasensitive to infrared radiation.

The cerebellum, along with the brainstem is the oldest part of the brain. Its part of the reptilian brain and is a small three-lobed structure behind the occipital lobe at the posterior part of the brain. It is our subconscious mind, fulfills our intent to walk, move, and make dreams come true, and possibly even live longer than people normally do. Your brain is equipped to do magical things. Instead of being concerned with peer pressure and survival (altered ego – living in the neocortex) you have the option to use your brain to make unlikely dreams come true and to do superhuman things.[:O]

The cerebellum is unique in the fact that it has apprx. one million connections per neuron, where the average neuron of the neocortices, has anywhere from 1,000 to 10,000  connections! Our greatest skills and most developed learned tasks are rooted to the cerebellum. It is the servant that executes, controls, and coordinates the body to follow a thought from the neocortex. Once motivated to act, (like riding a bike) it carries out an activity in an almost automatic fashion. It is as if this part of the brain takes over the body and becomes a simple, natural, "subconscious process." (Analogical Mind) Think of the neocortex as the "thinker" and the cerebellum as the "doer".  When unified, we have a natural "state of being".[]

Everything from learning to type and mastering it, to playing the piano and mastering it, to skiing and mastering it, etc, is all possible. By this process, it is equally possible to become a healer and heal without ever having to think about it (Matt 9:22; Luke 7:9, 17:14); to develop our psychic ability (Matt 16:21) and have it become natural and easy; to live in and experience other dimensions on a daily basis (having OBE's (2 Kings 6:12)); to be able to manifest objects (Luke  9:16) and realities intentionally without effort (Luke 5:4-7); and to perform miracles at will (John 2:8, Matt 8:26) as long as we have the knowledge that our thinking neocortex can conceive and model. Then all we need is to give ourselves the permission to practice it (Matt 7:7) until the cerebellum remembers it and unifies it to a "state of being". The cerebellum is our connection to the mind of God because it will consistently endorse all of our focused intentions. It has the fabric within its machinery. With its millions of connections per neuron, the memory already exists within, waiting to be activated. Perhaps we only need to develop the skill of remembering what we do not consciously know but we have subconsciously recorded as the collective memories of our evolution of our species.[]

A truly evolving spiritual person is not an individual with intellectual skill and memory of prayer or scripture. A spiritual person also is not a person that performs repetitive rituals without knowledge and awareness. A spiritually enlightened person, such as Jesus, is one who activates the whole brain by using the neocortices to marry philosophical knowledge with the experienced memory of the cerebellum so that thinking begets doing, which ultimately manifests a "state of being" (Mark 9:2-3). When we arrive at this state independent of the feedback from our bodies, our environment, and enslavement of time, we are truly evolved. Then making known what is not known can be a simple as riding a bike – and we will never forget how to do it![][8D][]

(References – Dr. Joe Dispenza (2002). The Golden Thread, Science and Ancient Wisdom in Pursuit of Knowledge; The Brain, Where Science and Spirit Meet,; Ornstein R. and Thompson R. (1984) The Amazing Brain. Boston: Houghton Mifflin Co.

[Jenadots]

Church building, saying God said so, holy books translated many times over, rituals, are one thing.  

I believe God is quite another:

I see him in the sunrise,
I hear him in a baby's laugh,
I know him through your eyes and mine.

God is in the russle of the wind,
filled with the song of birds and
the buzzing of the insects.

I hear his still voice in the midst of sorrow.
I know his comfort in a kind hand and a smile
mad with compassion and love.

He is in the ocean's roar,
the silence of the night, and
the blooms of morning.

He breathes life into all living things.
He touches life in ways we cannot know.
But we can know life and love.

Because he is within us, made to be
looking out into the world so that
he might see with billions of eyes
that which we look at and know.

I see him everywhere in every minute.
But I especially see him and know him
when I look at you when you let that
light of life flow through you as a
permanent residence who lives with you
and within you, in you and around you.

[Candieapple]

Jenadots, that was beautiful![][^]

Kerrblur, I don't know much about OBEs and the silver cord. That's why I came to this website, to learn. However, I found myself in this forum, not quite sure how that happened? But I will research the silver cord and some OBE stuff and get back to you in a couple of days. My husband did make me aware of an OBE in the bible in Kings referenced in my post above.

[m0d0]

I only caught the begininng few sentences of that big 'ol long post, so forgive if i missed something.

But dontchaya all get it. We are all God! Only were pretending were not, we've forgot. We aren't taught things through life, nobody can teach us anything. We already know everything, what we learn is what we remember. At least i think that's what i believe... lol it a philosphy in working Bare with me