Robert, what do you think of a devil/satan?

[Mustardseed]

As I said.......whatever my little friend.  Whatever[]

[Coffee]

Atlas-

I am very sorry that the responses went so far astray, noone seems to want to post here now.  

As far as counterparts go, I've found out that Mustardseed is my counterpart.

Good luck with future posts

Coffee

[GhostRider]

If one is too believe in a yin/yang version of the universe then by all means Satan is God's equal and complete counterpart. I don't think that Satan is less powerfull than God because God would've gotten rid of such a vile and dangerous enemy a LONG time ago, if he was more powerful.  

But then again, that presumes that I believe in either, and the jury is still out on that.  Gotta run, plumbing emergency!

[greatoutdoors]

Atlas, I can only answer your question by inference, really, but it is at least logical inference. If you've read some of my other posts you know I try and tie metaphysical topics into their scientific origins. This question fits very nicely into one of the fundamental laws of physics: "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." The scientific community applies this law to various types of particles, matter and to natural forces like gravity, etc. The next logical step would be to apply it to the metaphysical realm as well. Therefore, if there are angels, then there are indeed demons. If there is a "God" (sentient or otherwise), then yes, there is an equivalent "Satan".

Froggman (and a few others),
The idea that there really is no good and no evil has been around since the politically correct crowd came into power. It is an effort to distance everyone from the consequences of their own actions and make everyone a "victim". Good and evil do exist, not as some esoteric concept, but in the choices we make every day. I know Atlas mentioned Hitler, but I can give more mundane examples. If you choose to hurt, tease or abuse an animal or human, that action is evil. If someone cuts you off in traffic and you give them a specific gesture in response, that action is evil. That action, by itself, does not make you evil, but the collective impact of evil decisions can do so. Our "soul" (call it what you will) is shaped by the sum of our experiences and choices. Lest you think good and evil is merely a Christian concept, both Wiccan and Druid philosophy (which pre-date Christianity by a good bit) warn, above all, to harm none. Practioners of those faiths who choose to cause harm are doing evil in two ways, first by inflicting harm and second by oath-breaking.

The consequences of evil actions, IMO, are up for grabs, depending on which faith you follow. Again, Wicca and the Druidic path caution that evil action by a practioner will bring evil in return. Maybe that's the basis of "reap what you sow" that came along later. But so long as we deny evil and practice casual cruelty, this world will be a sad place.

Hehpaestus, I sort of agree with your philosphy as to "God". I think, as I've said before, that we are like ants. We go quite cheerfully about our tiny little lives, totally ignorant of things around us that we cannot even imagine! The more scientific journals I read, the more this lesson is brought home to me.

Sorry for the long post! []

[greatoutdoors]

Come on folks, give me some comments on my thoughts here. One reason I like this forum is the good discussions we have! []

[wisp]

Hi greatoutdoors,

Well, I agree with about everything you have said. I see evil as something produced. It didn't pre-exist, man and woman produces it. The polically correct movement is one of the most evil productions of this present day.I would like to say more when I get more time later.

How has scientific journals helped you?

[Coffee]

one of the fundamental laws of physics: "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."

how do you know you can apply earthly laws of physics to God?  If God exists (which I doubt) then I also doubt that fundamental law applies to him since he is all poweful.

I don't take oaths because I am bound to break them.

[greatoutdoors]

Wisp, the only ones I'm taking right now are Scientific American and Discover. They show that today's scientists are not only discussing metaphysics as being real, but in some cases proving metaphysical concepts they wouldn't have believed in the past -- parallel dimensions, time travel, clairvoyance, and OOBE's just for starters. A couple of articles report on how OOBE's can be induced, but they haven't reported testing the actual experience, just its occurrence. Sometimes the articles are heavy sledding, but to me it's worth it.

Oh, one of the more recent topics has been whether fish can feel pain. The verdict of the investigating biologists was "Yes". Of course, that drew immediate fire from their more PC crowd. I could make a whole other post about that!

Coffee, I'm still ambiguous about a sentient "God" - you and I are in accord there. But so far, the evidence indicates the laws of physics are universal, not just earthly. So, if God exists, it would be logical (I'm a Star Trek fan) he/she/it would be bound by those laws. This is sort of borne out by the Yin/Yang concept of eastern philosophy. Of course, these are just my theories. I am woman, therefore changeable! []

Thanks for the comments! []

[Coffee]

Great Outdoors-

I would like to read a couple good articles about clairavoyance and APing.  Can you refer me to any?

I've read some old studies of clairavoyance, but they were done by clairavoyants instead of scientists so there was a lot of room for error in their tests.

[wisp]

Happy New Year To All []

Coffee, you do bring up an interesting point about God's Being, being different from the universal law concept. This is something I want to think about and observe from now on.

Until now, I have had a tendency to see universal laws an extention of God, the center, or God the beginning (creator). Your added obsevation has added the possibility to another dimension to me. A way I've been seeing universal law connected with God is in the same way the aura emits from one. By that, I mean universal law or the way things fall or happen are because of the original power affects. I hope this makes sense. In place of the word oath, I would have to use natural or universal law as words that suite me better. There is no doubt to me from my personal experiences that this balancing thing goes on. It's almost an automated thing, oftened called cause and effect. There are some things not understood to me. These being the possibility of spirit intervention(dark/light, both good from my pov), the opposition to this may be from what I guess so far is evil influence. This is the formation of combination of personality types, combination of political ideas exercised, and all the commonly known tempting vices,flesh loving addictions, ego effecting triggers, and all the other factors commonly known in all this conglomeration of subjects brought to the forefront of controversy and often targeted or labeled bad or evil by various groups, and with the added various opinions (with most, equally being relevent or true/false). For instance, I know there are profilers who can produce a pretty accurate picture of someone, based on all their compiled information. But, what about the compound aspects, such as, the changable factors in these same profiles, such as, the temporary chemistry between two persons together at a given time, another common one may be environmental.I don't mean to ramble, I'm just trying to draw out the various factors that may be the chemical reactions which cause the evil things. To be able to understand all these mentioned things, would seem to be prerequisite to deciding if a spirit is evil (or good?... for that matter).  We may have to know(or least begin to understand) the nature of man, before we can know the nature of spirit. I'm not meaning to get into the discussion of political correctness, but, pc does a good job of covering up the nature of man/woman/children. This is the very thing that should be uncovered (exposed truths) to progress forward (Unless someone does not want this to happen! - another subject within itself).

I'm sure there are honest and sincere scientists. The other side of this is of course, is the scientists ill prepared within themselves to study or more important, influence others by their findings which may be flawed, purposefully, or not. An example I throw out is the concept that we create our reality (a belief I'm coming more to understand and see in my experiences). A flawed or uninformed scientist can create a false result easily by the very nature of their ability to do so.What if that person is prejudice or bias on some belief he/she holds, when in fact, the universe or natural law is quite different? I see this happening daily (imo)! This opens more opportunity for political correctness to be the next best truth, because many cannot or will not see or believe anything else. It's kind of another "follow the leader" into another blind alley.

I would be interested in hearing more of your pc opinions, greatoutdoors! For me, I see pc as a way to avoid any offensive move against the least amount of people, and at the same time,a way for this leader- wanna-be to please the largest number of the people. This is a  trick on the mind of the masses, using a common people pleasing technique on a large scale. At the same time, truth seems unimportant, or at least watered down for people to become all the same, and if not, you are separated from the group by not conforming to the collective thought being introduced.

[Atlas]

Hi,
I've read and heard you say on Art Bell I believe, that everything has its counterpart. There are arch-angels and arch-demons, demons and angels, negs and lower level good spirits, but is there a counterpart to God? Do you think there's a main evil being the rest come from?