Cold and Impersonal Angels?

[Mustardseed]

Hi Leyla
In my life I have on several occations met angels, both in the physical as well as the spiritual. Your observations equals my own. I thought about it a lot and have come to the conclusion that angels have a different way of expressing emotion. In a human way they seem unemotional, but maybe they just have different emotions. In this life people in different parts of the world as well as timexpres(ed0) their emotions and feelings very different, just go to England and you will understand what I mean[].Could this be the same principle multiplied several million times?

Regards Mustardseed

[Huwie]

Nice one Gandalf, I'll be buying Moen's books post-haste then.

[michael]

Bruce Moen is a nice guy who admits that he doesn't do "classic" astral travel...more use of the imagination..eg it is alleged that some pranksters went to a workshop of his and said they were disturbed about their dog's status in the afterlife...Bruce "resuced" it and passed on the message..whatever "woof" it was..als there was no dead dog......I do not go for this myself but if it makes folks happy...

[Gandalf]

They must be rich pranksters then, considering how a ticket to a conference costs about $275!!!


Anyway, although Moen has developed a technique using the imagination it is not as simple as just running through a mental exercise. Once developed fully it is more of a 'focused awareness but while still in the physical body', half way between astral and physical if you like.

Critics also have a problem when it comes to 'imagination' a word that is often thrown around with little idea as to its true nature and potential. The power and nature of the imagination underpins the philosophy of Monroe AND Moen, as for them, the imagination is the bridge where the human mind and the astral meet.

Imagination creates reality in the astral. The very act of making up the story about the dog and the guys willing Moen to find it (which they would be) would be enough to create a thought form of it. If Moen is then pointed towards it he will find it. If this story is true then it doesnt mean anything other than that Moen can be fooled, which he has admited himself.
The key to focused awareness is practice. With practice and experience you are meant to get better at telling the 'real' from the 'imagined'. However, even the best of us can still make a mistake.
Luckily, we know that more often than not Moen is on target as there is a large record of verified cases (not just Moen but others) where the dead person has revealed information which is later verified, such as telling relatives to look in the attic where they will find a stash of letters under the floor etc etc, which is then validated.

The dead also reveal info known only to relatives, which can sometimes be suprising or shocking!

So yes I think Moen's technique works, however there is a higher risk of failure and harder to master although so is conventional OBE.

Douglas






Douglas

[kiauma]

You description of 'Imagination' sounds very much like Hank Wesselman's technique of guided meditations, his technique to altered states of awareness.

I'm sure there are others.

[ralphm]

Leyla, a few random thoughts on reading your post and the responses.
In Monroe's books it seemed like most of his guides were actually his 'higher self' which were different entities from true angels.
If these guides are a part of yourself, would that have any meaning in the context in which they appear?
I think the guide aspect I have met is not a loving and personal being but one that makes me feel like I am safe and in good hands.

[kiauma]

In my POV, roughly, love is that which facilitates my growth.

It doesn't need to make me feel all warm and fuzzy, or be complementary in any way, though I will usually shy away from outright hurtful or attacking behaviour.  But, if someone shows up, and out of that interaction I become a bigger person, even if they appeared indifferent - and often indifference is the point, for then I know my reaction is entirely from me, it makes me think - then I will consider that person to be there out of love.

Such was the case in my meeting with an angel.

It's not always just about me and my tender feelings, and those who are 'nice' are not guarenteed to have my best interests at heart.

[Meg]

Maybe we need different guides at different times. One of my guides was very formal.. virtually giving me text book lessons on OBE (not that I could remember them in their entirety afterwards, but thats another story) In fact, he got pretty frustrated with me about my early astral pursuits, such as riding rollercoasters, bonking etc.

Meg xx

[Vicky]

quote:Originally posted by Leyla

My only experience with my personal guides was disappointing because I did not find the warmpth, or love, or bliss that is supposed to be found with heavenly beings.

They seemed like royalty, or military, and wanted a sort of "status report" on my development. They were "checking up" on me.

I knew immediatly these were high upper dimensional beings and did not sense anything negative about them, the spitituality was amazingly pure.

pure but cold.

This is the part that gets to me:

I recognized them at once and knew I had been with them many lives before, but when I ran to embrace them, as you would embrace a loved one you haven't seen in a long time, they immediatly impressed upon me a sense of "formality."

why?

I have heard that upper level angels have a "loving detatchment."

That worries me. Is that what we're supposed to strive for, ideally? No real highs or lows, just detatchment. Strictly controlled emotions?

I thought before I met them, that heaven as supposed to be about love. That there is a sense of pleasure that goes along with purity. And that's not what I found.

I have been disappointed ever sense.

Help anyone?



This happened to me also although it might be a little bit different. Once I was awaken during the night by this big black and gold man or something. He looked a little bit angry and very determined. He said Come on! and tried to pull me out of my body. At first I was so scared and surprised that I probably produced the biggest scream in the astral world, but then I relaxed and tried to help him take me out. But it was all disturbed at that moment because of a different reason, so I didn't leave my body then. But before that I once called my guides and two creatures appeared. They seemed very nice and friendly. I don't know if the black and gold one could have been one of the others. It's possible

[shaman]

Were these really angels? Did they introduced themselves as such?

Angels are supposed to be the emanation of the Divine, or in other words they are messangers of God. I think it is Christianity, New Age and NDErs who introduce this picture of Angels who radiate pure love. In the Bible (Old Testement) there is even an Angel of Death who is sent upon Pharao and all Egypt. Angels can take human appearance or any other appearance.

The most common Angels who is depicted in visions, dreams and such in the Old Testement is Gabriel, the Angel appointed over dreams. He is the one who interpret the prophetic dreams of Daniel for example.

Leyla, Did you get any names from these "beings"?

[Gandalf]

Shaman,
As I said, I dont think we should get to hung up on the term 'angels' and try to find one single definition of them from any one particular religious context.

In reality all religions have ideas about higher beings, going by various names. Most people in the west, whether Christian, Muslim, Jew or 'New ager', whatever, use the term 'angel' as it is a convinient word within our western cultural context.

In the east such as in Buddhist terminology, such beings are known as Boddhivistas or Bosatsu, and are described as radiating pure love (the diference baing that *most* boddhivistas were once human at some point in their development, although not all).

The umbrella term 'angel' that we use covers a WIDE RANGE of different beings some of whom seem to radiate 'pure love' as described and others who come across quite differently, however they are all extreemly high level.

Some people seem to have an urge to categorise everything neatly so we know what everything is and its nature and attributes (a common human urge) but I think in reality things are a bit more complicated.

Douglas

[michael]

LOL Meg!!!"bonking" in the astral plane indeed! have absoutely nothing against this concept but think that the old adage out of the Bible is probably true.."we are not given in marriage"..ie we are all "cold and impersonal" in a PLEASANT  way when we finally enter the astral state...

[Leyla]

They didn't have to give me their names. I already knew their names. Remember, I have been with them several lives before.

Everybody is getting hung up on "what is an angel, exactly" so lets just call them guides. I was very aware that they had charge of me. I was their ward.

It's not that they were unloving or uncaring. They were, but in a formal sort of way.  

And I am really irritated with the people who popped up to suggest that they don't love me, and maybe this is because I'm not a good person, and so on.

From what I understand, there are groups of angles...er...guides, who have certain goals in mind that they want to achieve. When they find a soul on earth of their same 'type' with the same goal they contact that person.

[Phong]

Guardian angels do not protect you from harm. They are not there to make choices for you, support you, or ease the suffering of life.

They guard your freedom. With divine unbreakable power they allow you to learn from life uninterrupted. They are "formally detached" so you are not interrupted by them either.

To support you or positively intervene in your affairs is to give you reason to love them. This would withhold you from an important lesson. To learn love without reason, action without support, is to learn divinity. This they must let you do for yourself.

And you may do so whenever you choose.

[Antranik]

Okay my first post on this astral pulse, feels good to register to this place!

If you saw a real ANGEL, here is what Sylvia Browne has to say about them from one of her books it reminded me of.. (it's nearly word for word, but not completely).

You saw a separate species, created by God to be our messengers and protectors, His divine legion of activists.  They never incarnate, and have no gender.  They never speak, even to each other, their comm. is exclusively telepathic, and not a single sound is ever heard from tehm except when they're singing their magnificent hymns of praise to God's glory in the Hall of Voices.

Other info that may tie in with the lack of emotion...

They don't socialize, wrok, research, study or participate in the gregarious, integrated lives we live at Home.  They stay to themselves, exuding their powerful love wherever they go but not subject to the same range of emotions and varieties of personality that we are.  Without ever looking grim or unfriendly, they never change expression, never smile, never frown, never laugh, and never cry, because they've never experienced any feeling except pure, uncompromised devotion.

Well, that's enough about angels i suppose, although there is more, hehe.

[Mustardseed]

I do believe they have both emotions as well as gender

[Leyla]

"They are not subject to the same range of emotions and varieties of personality that we are."

Yep, that part sounds right.

They approached me as an adult would approach an over-excited child. It was clear they though of themselves as my caretakers. In our view, children laugh easily, cry easily, make a lot of noise and are generally over emotional. Maybe angels feel the same way about humans.

I like sylvia brown but a lot of her ideas are christianized. My angels were male. There is no question.

One of the basics of mysticism is that gender is everywhere. As above so below. This world is a mirror image of the astral one, if gender is here then gender is there. And for a reason. It takes two polar forces to create life. Spiritual perfection lies not in the absence of opposing forces but in the balance of them. All the forces in the universe work in balanced pairs: acids and bases, protons and electrons, from the tiny double helix of DNA swirling inside each living cell; to the polar magnetic forces that keep our entire galaxy spinning and suspended in balance.

[glowsoftly]

Are guides cold and impersonal?...thats a very acute observation.

U: do you think I am cold and impersonal?
g: Well no, but I know what they mean, you seem a little detatched.
U: Feel now...tell me...
g: like a big hole inside of me, that goes down and down...really deep...*tears well up in my eyes.
U: What did you feel?
g: A very deep connection.
U: Smiling* and your experiences with beings who radiate Love...tell me..
g: They were so beautiful...it was hypnotic...and then they vanished.
U: What do you think happened?
g: Like I had lost myself and got sucked into their beauty, it was like falling in love.
U: and what does that say to you?
g: I can't hold that vibration?
U: Yes...but there is more..what else?
g: Its very hard to communicate in the state of love.
U: Yes *smiles
g: Thankyou
U: Smiles

[Leyla]

"g: Its very hard to communicate in the state of love."

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought of it.

[taom1234]

Hi.  I had the same experience you mentioned in your post about your guides being pure but "detached".  They were almost elecronic sounding.  Don't take it to heart. It seems your guide had the same purpose with you as mine had with me and that was to convey a personal message to you, not to immerse you in deep cosmic love which will come to you in time.

[Leyla]

My only experience with my personal guides was disappointing because I did not find the warmpth, or love, or bliss that is supposed to be found with heavenly beings.

They seemed like royalty, or military, and wanted a sort of "status report" on my development. They were "checking up" on me.

I knew immediatly these were high upper dimensional beings and did not sense anything negative about them, the spitituality was amazingly pure.

pure but cold.

This is the part that gets to me:

I recognized them at once and knew I had been with them many lives before, but when I ran to embrace them, as you would embrace a loved one you haven't seen in a long time, they immediatly impressed upon me a sense of "formality."

why?

I have heard that upper level angels have a "loving detatchment."

That worries me. Is that what we're supposed to strive for, ideally? No real highs or lows, just detatchment. Strictly controlled emotions?

I thought before I met them, that heaven as supposed to be about love. That there is a sense of pleasure that goes along with purity. And that's not what I found.

I have been disappointed ever sense.

Help anyone?