There's no such thing as 'Evil'...

[Euphoric Sunrise]

I'm reading a book at the moment for my English class at aschool ("Triage" by Scott Anderson) and one of the characters in the book says "...evil is too easy; life is far more complex. I think you would agree that most are merely weak men caught up in difficult times."

I think this holds some sort of truth to it, even when taken out of context. I think there aren't really any evil people in the world, just those who have suffered psychologically and are trapped.

[Mystic Cloud]

quote:Originally posted by aissy

I read the article "Spirits, Angels, Origins & Relationships" by Robert Bruce and wanted to impart point that I think should have been mentioned in the text. I don't believe that 'evil' exists in itself. I see evil as a 'lack of good' just as dark is a lack of light. Evil is simply a label that can be interpreted in many ways...some say the devil is evil, but according to many religious scriptures, the devil(Lucifer) was once good and is now simply living in respite, cut off from the Creator's Grace, until his appointed term is complete. This conjecture is coming not from a religious bias(as it may apppear) but from a true belief in the goodness of our Creator, Exalted in Power, Wise.

Lots of Love and Light.........aissy[]

Actually Lucifer is the name of an old Babylonian King and it literally means "Bringer of Light". Why it was interpreted as the Devil's name I don't know. Some stupid mistake when translating the Bible from its original language to english(?) (king james version).

Anyway you are right, evil doesn't exist in itself. Only nature exists, because good&evil are only mere human assumptions.

If you have a baby and a Tiger approaches and kills it. It is not evil, it only acts accordingly to its own nature. If an adult kills a
another human we can say in some situations that he acts AGAINST his 'own' nature this can be considered by some as evil but actually he just acted along with his own belief system so it could be said that it was his own nature to act in that way.

Same things apply for negs. They can not be considered as 'evil', but just acting according to their own nature. So if we relate their nature to our we can say that this relationship is evil.

[Gwathren]

Everything depends of your point of view, but "evil" is a needed term for describing things that are not ethical and "good", evil are the things that are unmoral – "bad".

[kiauma]

Cool, another good/evil pos/neg debate.  

Personally I also think that good and evil are human conventions, at least as humans usually speak of them, because it is all relative - relative to humans, as we look at them.  

That does not mean, however, that there is no basis to good/evil, just that it is relative.  For example, if a seed sprouts and the tender shoot reaches upward then unfolds leaves which seek the sun, then the sun is 'good', and it seeking the sun is 'good', because it promotes the higher expression of the plant, which is a mature, healthy plant which can then go on to propogate more plants and contribute to the life and beauty of the earth.  Growth and higher expression are good, and growth and higher expression which contributes to the growth and higher expression of others is a greater good.  This is a naturalistic expression of 'good'.

Of course, we choose to call good only those things that contribute to our own growth and higher expression, even if that means destroying some plants - that is why it is relative, after all, some plants really are a nuisance or poisonous to humans.

As such, something which takes, obstructs or discourages growth or higher expression is 'bad' - again, this is relative, but if several mutually opposing species were able to work out their differences in mutually supportive growth and higher expression, this is universally good!

Opposed to the universal good is 'Evil'.  However, like aissy says I agree that evil is a lack, as in my above example of the mutually opposed species.  Obviously working together benefits all, but if they disregard that then one or more of them will perish, locked in eternal conflict.  There is no way out except the removing of the other species, and even then there will always be other species so the conflict will be unending.  Not understanding this is what perpetuates their aggression.  Therefore I agree with aissy that 'evil' is a lack, a lack of understanding, a lack of awareness, a lack of compassion, and ultimately a lack of love.

And so it is when speaking of 'negs'.  Simply to call a neg a neg is to assume polar positions, that you are 100% right and it is 100% wrong.  This is only possible if we disregard the relative nature of what we think of as 'good', and that is only possible if we have no compassion.

This does not mean we must always give in to aggression or tolerate invasiveness or injury, it means we must speak our truth, but also be sensitive to other's truth.

As far as negs in the astral, Robert Bruce says (from http://www.astralpulse.com/guides/oobe/oobe_8.htm#5> ):

During an oobe, a projector is virtually invulnerable and can pass through solid matter, sit on ground zero during an atomic blast, or even to bask within the heart of a supernova unscathed. The only thing to fear while out of body is 'fear' itself. Nothing else can directly hurt a projector and nothing can get at their physical body and mind during a conscious projection. While it is fairly rare to come across anything nasty or negative during a projection, any troublesome entity a projector might stumble across cannot, therefore, directly harm them. They can, however, show themselves as a form designed to scare the daylights out of a projector, and this can cause psychologically damage. This can also result in a subconscious fear of OOBE. It can cause an instinctive, negative baulking type of reaction which can ruining every conscious exit. This can stop a projector from enjoying conscious OOBE for the remainder of their life, unless they can program themselves to overcome it. If this is already the case, I suggest a course of affirmations and self hypnosis be used to overcome it.

As to why a 'neg' does 'bad' things, well, while you may not be able to do much about it, a neg is probably just doing the same things you are doing, going about it's business and trying to survive, even if the way it goes about it is in ignorance (lack of compassion) for your position.

[aissy]

...some interesting points have been raised. With regards to Kiauma's view on the nature of good and evil, I wanted to elaborate another aspect that has not been directly acknowledged.

Now, considering Kiauma's view about the interpretation of good and evil..."Obviously working together benefits all, but if they disregard that then one or more of them will perish, locked in eternal conflict"...one can duly interpret 'good' as being in 'Unity, or in sync' with the universe, nature, or whatever one wants to call it. Hence, evil would therefore be interpreted as not conforming one's will to Unified Whole.

To expound on this topic from a different perspective, one could argue that if a person makes life choice that go against the concept of Unity, as in rebellion, one could be considered 'evil' to a certain extent. And as stated previously, evil is simply a label...so is the concept of good. I believe there are certain degrees of good and evil, but one must understand that there is no such thing as 'absolute evil' because that would go against Universal Laws of Nature...again, as stated previously, good and evil are relative terms. Love, on the other hand, is the only absolute quality of Nature, though it may not always appear to be so on the 'surface.' A lack of love, if heeded, seems to create a yearning to get closer to the concept of true unity, which in my view, is the only way of life. We may now argue that there is no such thing as good or evil or a lack of good or evil, but that everything in life is a lack of love trying to find its way back to pure, absolute Love.... "For example, if a seed sprouts and the tender shoot reaches upward then unfolds leaves which seek the sun, then the sun is 'good', and it seeking the sun is 'good', because it promotes the higher expression of the plant, which is a mature, healthy plant which can then go on to propogate more plants and contribute to the life and beauty of the earth. Growth and higher expression are good, and growth and higher expression which contributes to the growth and higher expression of others is a greater good. This is a naturalistic expression of 'good,'" as Kiauma so pleasantly puts it.

Sincerely............aissy

[kiauma]

"...one can duly interpret 'good' as being in 'Unity, or in sync' with the universe, nature, or whatever one wants to call it. Hence, evil would therefore be interpreted as not conforming one's will to Unified Whole."

Good point!  I think though, rather than trying to put it into terms of submission to 'the unified whole' I think what this reminds me of is implications of the difference between selfishness and selflessness.  

I like this because I can then go back around and relate selfishness to a lack of compassion and to a lack of understanding how whatever we do affects all - or a lack, at any rate.   []

[The AlphaOmega]

Yes of course, genocide isn't really evil, just some poor dictator suffering from hard psychological times.  I'm sure Hitler didn't think that what he was doing was evil, but to hell with philosophy and it's 'get you nowhere rantings'.  There is good and there is evil and you can't "reason" your way out of it.  Killing millions of innocent people or killing one innocent person is evil.  "Oh, well what makes a person innocent"?  That's the way of the heaping pile known as philosophy.  Go kill a baby, it's not evil, you're just hurting psychologically!

[Nagual]

I sense that AlphaOmega might be sarcastic... [|)]

Also, couldn't the lack of "Good" be... "neutral"?

[kiauma]

"There is good and there is evil and you can't "reason" your way out of it."

Hitler believed in polar good and evil too...

More the tragedy.

[cristina8675309]

my oh my ---- perhaps part of this point could be brought to bear with the simple sentence of "Hitler performed according to His Nature".  I Hate what he did.  I believe it to be "an act" (taken altogether) of horrific magnitude.  However,  I'm also not naive enough to fall wholly into the "vegan idea" that eating meat, dairy by-broducts, or unfertilized eggs (might not a mother hen mourn her missed opportunities at mothering?! perhaps silly) is "evil" when one considers Roald Dahl's proposed invention of an instrument that record's the dying moans, groans, and screams of plants and vegetables and trees as they are uprooted for whatever purpose.  But the vegan is only acting according to his nature.  we are all hinting at (tongue in cheek) "aural shades of karmic-grey".

Sincerely...a true newbie[]

[kiauma]

Of course what Hitler did was horrific, but I see this as no reason to adopt his attitudes.  Quite the contrary, if we want it to never happen again.

Yes cristina8675309, we must all act with what we feel is the best information and under our best discernment.  I eat meat too.  []

[cristina8675309]

thank you for the reply...and i completely agree.  i see no reason to adopt ANY attitude that furthers evil.  however, i grow confused (but then again those who know me won't be surprised...)  if there needs be a balance in all things, i.e., hot/cold, "good"/"evil" - all this from "perspective" that one would be able to tell the difference of one FROM the other - then there would HAVE to exist to some degree and at least once or twice (by all that's holy i hope we've learned enough not again, but perhaps not with saddam and even my home country guilty of atrocities upon poorer countries it values of less economic worth) and on such an horrific scale that it might gain awareness and appreciation for the opposite end of that spectrum--the love/acceptance/health/wealth(all aspects) of all mankind in all its forms.

i guess you can tell i'm a meat-vegetable-eating idealist...huh?!  lol

namaste

[Tayesin]

HI All,
Personally I do not think evil exists of it's ownself.  While we on Earth have to contend with duality as part of the human world make-up we are experiencing, I do not think that this duality is continuous into the highest realms.

I see that what people here call Negs are simply other beings who choose to use their portion of the one energy for darker intentions, that does not make them Evil.  It only makes it a choice thing.

Good and Evil are value judgements we apply to things that exist or events that happen.  None of those things or events can exist without the creative support of Source/god.  So in that sense is god both evil and good ?  Or is it simply the originator and supporter of all ?

Hitler was a man who followed his soul's path!  As for the 10 million Jews he was supposed to be responsible for killing, they could not have been in that situation without the consent/support of 'god'.  So this tells us an important fact.. prior to incarnation to this world both Hitler and the Jews who died from his reign MUST have had contracts to be and do what was done !!  

In light of this understanding we can see that what was done there could not be called Evil by us, it was simply something that all parties agreed to bring about on the earth for us to fully realize the true nature of War in the hope that we would not allow ourselves to go there again.  Unfortunately, all those Jews died in vain because we still War.

Evil is manifest as reality on earth simply by the choices we make in between incarnations to provide experiences for ourselves and others, therefore it cannot be called Evil.  The same is true for what is called Negs, if they cause you to be scared then they are actually helping you to learn about yourself and see what issues need to be addressed in your current life.

In our current experience fields we seem to need the pressure of evil to make us grow and move forward in our spiritual life, so we must be creating this duality in order to succeed at these tasks.

Love Always.[]

[James S]

The way I look at good vs evil, is its just another way in which our universe balances itsself: light - dark, order - chaos, development - entropy.

It seems that all of the "negative" things listed above - dark, chaos, entropy, have at one time or another, by human literary standards, been used to describe "evil". It seems we humans are the ones responsible for the definition of evil.

I agree with Tayesin that Good and Evil are judgements placed on something or someone based on human definitions. It's all relative. A shade of gray is dark compared to white, but light compared to black.

By the way....
Cristina, welcome to the forum, and did you steal that number from Jenny?[]

Regards,
James.

[cristina8675309]

James and Tayesin:  Good points, both... (thx for the welcome, James--and with all the "cristina's" in the world and the suggestions of numbers for alternate name choices, yes i stole it from jenny---at least it's one i can remember...lol).

thanks for the great "furtherance" of my understanding.  and i agree with the "compact" idea, or the idea of "between carnations" forming a plan for what "we" need to learn or experience or work out for "some advancement".

but before i sound TOO "lazy" about atrocities, let me still say i think "atrocities" deplorable.  but without experiencing mobility, could we experience paralysis?  same line of what's already been said.  thank you for all your welcomes and insightful replies.  

and i also agree (forgive me for not remembering atm the contributor's name) that perhaps the more we focus on one thing, the more we bring that energy toward us...like watching scary movies; their own energy, etc.

long-winded, sincere, meat-eating, wisdom-seeking, jenny-theif,
cristina

[Adkha]

There is no such thing as good and evil....it is just your belief system against mine.

BUT...there is such thing as love...I think there is no humanbeing that claims love is nog good...Love may be the only thing you can describe as good.

I belief hate is a fake emotion because it is an emotion with no purpose and it is created by a mind that is manipulated by his own belief system.

[kiauma]

Not to repeat myself and Tayesin and James ad-nauseum, but yes I believe love is the animating force of the universe, and that 'evil' and it's associated emotions are from a lack of love.

[SpectralDragon]

The way I see evil is this: Evil is the overriding of impersonal love becuase of either experiences, circumstances, social teachings, or other things. I say impersonal because there is love in everyone on the personal level. The "base love" people have is basically a kind of impersonal love (impersonal definitely not meaning cold or anything, people think of being impersonal too negatively I noticed...) or a love of all things. It is my belief that if people were shown thier purest form, it would be love.

The way I am interpreting the above messages, a lot of people are saying that evil is a lack of love. This suggests to myself that evil is thus the base of existince, because it means you can take away all love, but I feel that this is not possible. I believe evil actually has some basis of love, but that it's twisted to "love of self" or "love of wrong." I am not saying the above views are wrong or anything, just a couple things to think about that I wanted to add.

In truth I think there are many different "truths" to this, just different interpretations/views of it. We as people have to interpret things our own way in order to understand.

[Nagual]

quote:'evil' and it's associated emotions are from a lack of love.

Once more, what about being 'neutral'...?
I can love, I can hate, and I can not care (neutral).
So, is being neutral evil?

[Jenadots]

Evil does exist...and if you are perceptive enough, you will know it when it is around you in some form, usually via a person.  

How can any sane person say it does not exist and is just another psychological disorder?  It is more than that.  It is something a person gives themselves over to...usually by choice, but sometimes by happenstance.  It is enticing and gives a false sense of power to some.  

I will give you a personal example.  I once dated someone for a short time.  One evening, we were sitting in a restaurant lit only by candles on the tables.  As I have trance medium tendencies, I started to go into a trance while gazing at the candle.

I felt a wave of black energy going from his hand through mine and up my shoulder.  I immediately took my hand from his.  There was and is no doubt in my mind that this person was "evil" personified.  Needless to say, that was the last time I saw him.  

In retrospect, I doubt that he even realized himself what he had opened the door to with all the drugs he had used during the 60's, but it was there.

On a broader scale,  Hitler.  Potentially, he could have saved the world or certainly Europe -- he had all the talents to be a leader.  However, he opted for the path of evil rather than the path of good.  Some say he was insane.  Not so, he knew exactly what he was doing and had a gift for manipulation of crowds. He played on their fears and feelings of frustration and powerlessness until they would follow him in any way he wanted them to.  The horrors of that war that were inflicted on millions is due to the choices he made and led others to make. He told his people this was all for their good, for their rights and for salvation and pride.  

Sound familiar?  As in Bin Laden and all the other terrorist leaders.  They do exactly the same thing and they call it good.  

I do beleive evil is usually a choice, on some level, that a person makes or agrees to even if in just deciding not to resist it.  

Yes, we all have our little evil moments.  I don't know anyone, including myself, that hasn't committed murder in our minds over and over again when someone has hurt us or vexed us or made our lives miserable in some way.  This is normal, small potatoes in comparison to true evil.  

One last example is Charles Manson who has openly said if he ever gets out of prison he will kill as many people as he can.  He makes no excuses, just says he likes to kill people and he is entitled to kill all those he thinks of as less worthy of life than himself.  
The man is not sick...he is evil.  

Most of the time, tho, I think it is much more difficult to know or to ascertain the nature of evil.

 Those that depict evil or "Satan" as monstrous and ugly are off base.  Who wouldn't run from that?  No, I think evil is usually very attractive, charming, seductive, enticing in some way or another - at least at first.  It is only later, once a person if fully involved or committed to the evil within themselves that the ugliness of it is known. Then it is too late for those around that person who feel its effects or fall victim to their treachery.  

Best advice:  avoid it when you can and resist it any way you can.  

It is real.  It may not exist on other planes, but it certainly exists on this one.  At some point in life, each of us encounters some of it.  Only a fortunate few never see it or feel its effects in some way.  

Peace...Jena

[wendi]

Lack of good and evil are the same thing.


Lack of good is not nothing.



For a guardian angel, let us entreat the Lord.

[jilola]

Are we talking ab out evil as a seperate and independent entity or as a laell we put on behaviours tat harm other and prevent them from experienceing and learning their life lessons?

I think the distinction is important. In this thread the term has been used in both meanings and that seems to account for most of the differencens between opinions.
Those who maintain evil doesn't exist seems to ue the term as a reference to the entity and those of the opposing camp for the behaviour.

Imho, separate entity evil doesn't exist. A behaviour that harms others does and can be called evil to distinguish it from a helpful behaviour usually called good.

2cents & L&L
jouni

[Interek]

I do also think that evil doesn't really exist. However, I would say that in the human world there aren't objective "good" and "evil" things at all. The evil and good things, the way you see them, depends only on yourself.
Maybe there is something good - God for example, but take into consideration that if God really exists he is everything (evil included, even though he doesn't use it).
So, something is good or evil, because you think it is, it always is up to you. If you believe it isn't true what I say, let's take a look on the best example: World Trade Center tragedy.
Many of us, perhaps even everyone of us, would say that this what happened in New York on 11th September 2001 wasn't good. I do think so as well. But, there are people who think otherwise. For them it wasn't "evil", it was good - at last the Big Powerful America has been punished for their greed and swaggering... It was for such people a day of celebrity. I mean for instance the Palestinian people.

So, there aren't good and evil things in the world. Everything is up to you. What you think is good, may be evil for me. It just is so. Everyone of us is different and has different way of thinking as well.

Please, write me what you think about my statement.

[jilola]

Evil as a label attached to certain kinds of destructive behaviours certainly does exist. Nobody can deny it.  But it doesn't necessitate the existence of a big bad wolf lurking on some plane or another who for some reason has nothing better to do than pester us humans.

But evil is a relative label. Like it's been pointed out one man's evil is another man's  good.
Let's not make the mistake of climbing on a pole claiming ours is the absolute good and theirs the absolute evil.

One should endeavour to stop bad things, to best of our knowledge, from happening and being perpetrated on others. Just choose wisely as others are may at some point do the same to you.

2cents & L&L
jouni

[Interek]

And what would you say If I told you that real Satan doesn't really exist?