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Hello everybody,
I am a vegetarian and do not intend to change that for ANY reason, but I'm interested in your experiences/opninions on this issue related to energy development and obe's.
According to some people (book author's!) you need animal protein to build up the energy needed for ap's.
I guess for people with a natural ability to project it doesn't matter either way, but what about a person without this natural tendency?
I'm looking forward to your reactions!!
A-M

ps I haven't read all Robert's material yet: does he have an opninion on this?

......and what do women have to show ??

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>   A-M

Hi Joe,
Thanks for the elaborate explanation!  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>
I just gave it a shot, but I have installed the dutch version of IE, so the button names do not correspond.
I tried to find something that looked like a 'view files' button (1.), but I couldn't. Then I moved on to 2. and I could not find a security setting under the security tab either. And then I gave up...... http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_sad.gif" border=0>
I'll save your explanation for a visiting friend with more computer experience.
So I hope to meet you all soon there!
And thanks again!

Anne-Marie

ps. All this is very bad for my ego, but I guess that's good, because it should dissolve anyway!  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_wink.gif" border=0>

It works fine until I want to select a topic, then it takes minutes for a page to load...... http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_sad.gif" border=0>
I'm REALLY frustrated now, since I bought a new computer and installed IE instead of Netscape, to be able to continue visiting this website after it was upgraded !!!
What's next? Will I have to follow a computer course now so I will understand how to change my software-settings !!!

A-M

(not feeling very Zen)

Something else interesting was said in another documentary on the moon. The astronauts reported bright white flashes of light behind closed eyes.
The way they described it, it sounded exactly the same as what RB calls 'strobe effect' in his book (and what I experience too before going to sleep). As you all probably know, his explanation of this phenomenon is surplus energy 'strobing' from the frontal chakra to the crown chakra.

According to the researchers it was due to cosmic radiation of dying supernova's, which penetrates everything, including your head/eyeballs (!)
(and they showed some impressive microscope slides of damaged rocket material  to back this theory up)

Do both forms of energy (cosmic and 'extra-physical') simply cause the same effect in the eyes or is there more to this ??

A-M

That's very clever reasoning (about the fear of the unknown).
Does reiki do that for one too? I could use some of that!  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>
I'm surprised that distant attunement works better than in person. In pranic healing it is the other way around....
I take reiki seriously and was therefore hesitant (in retrospect an better word than fearful) about getting it from someone you don't know and without even meeting in person.
The way you all talk about it, it sounds as easy as ordering a book or something from the internet (no offence meant!).
However, I do feel I'm ready for this next step in my spiritual development....
I'm going to sleep on this one.
Thanks for explaining to patiently!

A-M

How does a 'distant' attunement work?
How will you know how  to use reiki yourself after having had the attunement?
I'm really interested in reiki, but I feel some fear of the unknown.....as Tom stated: once you are initiated you cannot NOT use it !?
A-M

Hi Tom,
I read the above and up to a point I do agree with you on the asking-money-for-reiki-subject, but there is another side to all this, that I would like to mention. In the discussion the focus was mainly on the 'supplier': should he or she give the attunements for free.
But look at it from the 'demander' point of view. In general,  people have a tendency to take more than they give; material and non-material.  However, for a balanced universe it is important that the process of giving and taking is balanced too.

Based on this, it is said that healing works better if you give something back ('ít is in giving that you receive'). Which doesn't have to be money to the healer, but it can also be passing on the healing to someone else, e.g.
Personally I like this thought.
Of course it would be nicer if people volunteered 'returns', but unfortunately a lot of people need to be 'helped' with this......

All this doesn't mean I think you should never give something for free!
You and Edguidry mean well, and if more people thought like the two of you, then I would hate this world a lot less!
It's just that I wanted to balance the discussion with another way of  looking at it.

A-M

ps  how's your mole?  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

Hi Jeni,

I think what you experience is what RB calls 'strobe effect'. I have it too since I started working with energy. The brow center (third eye) 'strobes' accumulated energy upward into the crown center. You can find more about it in Astral Dynamics on page 185.

With me the flashes are usually white and occasionally red or blue. No rainbow colors like you have. According to RB this effect is a strong indicator that clairvoyant potential is present. The flashes will come more frequent (with less intervals), speeding up to a 'vision screen' that can be manipulated. So, it sounds like we're in for some fun!  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

I also have been seeing 'energy-patterns' before going to sleep or when i wake up. Like spirals and cristals.
I think all this is cool too. it makes me look forward to going to bed.  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>
And it's comforting: I don't have obe's yet, but at least SOMETHING is happening!

A-M

I've marked two moles too since friday, and no change yet either.
It makes me wonder if it only works with marks related to entity attack?
In that case I guess I should be happy they won't disappaer....

A-M

hi Tia,
I suffer from anxiety attacks too and I take the herb Hypericum ( 'st.John's Worth' ? I'm not sure of the English name). With me it helps within half an hour after taking a tablet. As long as I take one tablet a day I'm fine under normal circumstances. In periods of stress or low energy I take two or three a day. Have you already tried it? I can really recommend it!!
A-M

Hey everybody, I just realised that I forgot to comment on the vitamine B12 issue.
The question was: if humans are vegetarians, why do they need B12, which is not found in plants.
The answer is that only VEGANS have a problem, i.e. people that don't eat ANY animal products.
VEGETARIANS however have no B12 problem, because it is found in dairy products and eggs!
So, since our ancestors used to climb in trees to pick fruit, they probably also bumped into some nice eggs every once in a while and ate them. (Whether this was a very ethic act is a different subject...)
The body stores B12 for 3 to 5 years so it would not be neccesary to eat eggs all year round.
And probably also an occasional insect slipped through.....As we only need a small amount of B12, this could also have been a good source!
Which makes me happy that I live in a time that I can cook my eggs and buy cheese!  
But then again.........maybe I lived in that time also....??!!  

goodnight to you all, it was nice talking to you!!
A-M

ok, Mobius, you want some scientific facts, here they are:

http://www.meatout.org   is a website with many links, one of them being:
http://www.pcrm.org/health/Info_on_Veg_Diets/faq.html
with FAQ's about vegetarian diets

but then, it's all a matter of who you want to believe, because no matter the subject there are always different opinions and opposing research facts to support them......
(as with the existance of more than 4 dimensions.....)  
A-M

First of all I want to say that I'm delighted with a discussion on this level. Normally it doesn't get further than "well, yes, I do feel sorry for the animals, but I like meat, so......" (which tells you a lot about the inspiring surroundings I live in)
I would like to add some brief points of reflection:

1. what I've learned from the 'inside' of our bodies is that it is not adequate to digest meat: the saliva and the stomach fluid is not acid enough, and our bowels are too long (the teeth were discussed before).
Though not everybody seems to agree with this, from my personal experience I can testify that a lot of (heavy) meat eaters I know have digestion problems....

2. without the help of our intelligence, our body would not be able to hunt down animals. There is no way we would be able to catch a rabit without a weapon or a trap to catch it with. We also use our intelligence to keep animals in places were they can't run away from us. We have a body to climb trees and pick fruit (as was stated before)

3. unfortunately most animals don't die quick and painless (like Mobius suggested) and most of them have terrible lives because of the obsession humans have with making money. Most of them are treated as lifeless products; I'm sure I don't have to list all the things that we do to them in their short lifes. In some countries it might be worse than others, but generally it is too terrible for words what happens behind closed doors. Buying meat is supporting the industry that has no respect whatsoever for animals. It makes you an accomplice to down right torture!

Well, I hope I haven't spoilt your day with all of this.
In the time to come I will have to reevaluate my relationship with plants, thanks to you!!  
A-M

Thanks, Mobius, for the vegemyths-link. I have not had time yet to read all of it, but it looks interesting!
It will not make me change my mind, but I like to be fully informed.
What I do not understand is that a person that is spiritualy involved still eats meat. How can you want a living being to die for you if you know there are plenty of food-alternatives. And on an energy-level: you eat the pain, the suffering and the anguish of another being; how can that benefit you?
I know why the people around me eat meat, but I'm really interested what the answer is of a person that is involved with spirituality.
A-M

Thanks everybody for your replies!
It gives me hope for a better world when I read a message like Distant Bell's who (like me) values sticking to a moral issue (in this case eating meat) more than his own life!!
To me (like Goku22) it feels so wrong to eat animals that I would find it VERY strange that it would affect my energy-level. Intuitively I feel like Tom said that the contrary is true: that vegetarianism increases your 'frequency/vibrations'
But......as I am not able to project into the astral dimensions (yet) I was not quite certain about it. Somehow if you read it in a book it sounds impressive and you start getting doubts (call me naif).
So, thanks everybody for supporting my feeling about this and hope to see you all in the astal some day!
Anne-Marie

Thank YOU for giving us the opportunity to exchange information and opinions, and for sharing your knowledge with us!!!!
big hug from Holland
Anne-Marie

Hello Wolf,
I also have this peculiar thing with my nose!
Since I've been doing energy exercises (like the FBC), I sometimes wake up in the middle of the night and (just) my nose is 'vibrating'.
(this is the first time I'm not afraid to tell somebody!)
To me it feels the same as the vibrational state in other body parts, but I was puzzled why I would just feel it in my nose!
So the 'awakening kundalini'-explanation sounds feasible to me.
Anyway, I have no new information to offer you, just the feeling that you are not alone out there!  
Take care!
Anne-Marie