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I have to go with Kakkarot on this one..
There is so much evil and judgement in people..
people are really vile. Not al o§f course- but many.

I  too need my chare of privacy- and it has not become
better since my meditations and my energy work has
increased. I guess partly it is becuse it takes alot of time,
and because It shows that there are other things to life
than beeing around people.

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

A group of psychology students in sweden actually did a test on this
subject. They sat down at a some public place and looked at people, and then asked them if they had feelt that someone had looked at them-
and they got pretty good results. People seemd to sense that they where looked at.

Or at least so I have heard.

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

Yes, psionics should be a branch of magick. In New Age there
is much talk about people doing a lot of wierd things and having
loads of strange powers- but what it all comes down to is this-
I have never seen anybody move a stone with mind power.
I have read loads of books about magick writen by people who claim
to be magickans and claim to have been it for many years, and none
of them calim to have any of these extraordianry powers.

When you assume a god form in meditation, I belive that you only draw down
the energy that is asociated with that god. If you assume a god form in  a ritual, the god might actually come  through alot stronger, and be as storng
or stronger then you. i.e. the ordianry person might in a way dissaper for a while to give way for the god.
Bet then again that´s a long discussion..


"If you can influence someones decision making process and a different chain of events happens, aren't you directly influencing the physical. "

In a way yes, but it is still in conformity with the possibilitys of the things you affect. You affect the will of a person, and then that person moves it´s machin the body.

Felix


-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

The easiest thing to influence with magick should be the own body,
since this is controled by the own  energy body.
Still some great occultists where not even able to shift there own
bodys... Crowley had asthma al his life, and could not get rid
of this with magick but had to take opium.
Dion fortune died of leukimia... If she could have affected
matter with magick, why not cure her disease?

I know that many talk about healing- and yes I belive in it
to, but it seems to be working sometimes and not others..
I would like to know why.

Many people talk about affecting great things in there surrounding
but cann´t even change there own bodies.

Should it not be harder to change the outsid world than shanging the
own body?

Then again many say that magick works badly if it is done with a
egoistic motife- this could explain why outside work is easier.

The problem is that self delusion and hypnosis is wery strong, and to
se something dosn´t have to mean that it exists.
Of course this dosn´t make the magickal act less potent.
It might still have al the power on the individual exposed to it.

If someone manages to change an object- lets say a person, into
a toad- whel that is impressive ! ( and quite evil and stupid.. of course)
I have never seen it, and will remani sceptical until the day I see it.

Atracting events is another thing- I think that this is possible.
When this is done one only has to inlfuence things to do
a certain thing, but always in accordance with there own
possibilitys. It is quite another thing to transform a stone into
a carrot... The stone dosn´t have this ability.
So not even by influencing the stones will you can get this
result. Even if the stone whant´s to turn into a carrot I cann´t.
It is dead..

A living beeing should have greater possibilitys to transform.
As longn as it is within it´s own frame of possibility.




-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

Fenris-
I agree with you.
The question is if it is possibl to create great changes in the
physical world with magick. I know that the main goal of magick
is development- it´s not the "powers" gained that are the goal.
I have littel experience of any outer form of magick, and the people
I know who are magickans mainly work with the inner plains.
The poeple I knoe put great value on knowledge, and have read
alot on the subject. The interesting thing is that all the great occultist
that I have read books from say that it is extremly difficult to cause
changes to occure in the physiacl world. (Dion fortune, Crowled and many others) So when other people claim that it is easy to make real physical changes in the physical plane- it´s a word agai´nst word matter for me-
and I usually belive the great occultists in these matters. I have never
seen anybody make a change in the physiacll world- I don´t even think
that I know anybody that has seen it..

Of course, making oneselfe invisible ( I can´t do that..) would not
be changing the physicall - it´s only a matter of changing other poples perceptin- and perception is a mental state.

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

Hey kakkarot!

Do you have cactus in canada?

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

Perhaps I should have answered the questions myselfe..

well- here we go..

1. I usually sitt cross leged on a round green thik carpet on the floor- but I can only do this for so long before my legs start hurting. I try sometimes to sit on the couche to- but I do not reach the same levle of deep meditation that way.

2. I always do NEW sitting on my couch- usually with candles light in the eavning. It is important to be comfortable while doing NEW.

3.I guess the stronegest experiences I have had have been when going into pretty deep trance while sitting cross leged- it is a monumental feeling when thebody really starts to tingle and vibrate..

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

[Originally posted by Frank:]

quote:Originally posted by Frank:

The kind of activity you will gravitate towards will depend on your past physical life to a high degree. Opera singers will continue singing opera; carpenters will continue practising carpentry; avid stamp-collectors will continue avidly collecting stamps, mathematics teachers will continue teaching mathematics: all completely oblivious to the fact they have undergone physical-body death.

Frank- I don´t see the sense in this. We at the forum al have some religious knowledeg, but is it not harsh to state that the poor ignorant  people out there would not know that they are dead just because they had no religious belife in life? Of course they will realise! And I tell you this, if peopel get "stuck" in a self made dimension refusing to die, It has nothing to do with what they belived in life - it has al due to not wanting to let go of the physaicll body. It could happen to a religious person too. I am sure that most atheists will realise that they are dead preatty fast and move on.

Felix



-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

Hi!
I know Falun Gong, and have read the books.. but left the groop
again pretty fastly when I realised that they where extremly fundamental,
it really is a sekt..

Some of the things Hogzhi write seem logicall and some are just
buddhist cliché... and pretty stupid.

Hm.. if mr Copperfiel is a magickan?
Well, he once said,
- Illusionists get big hollywood cheks, and magickans get burnt alive..
...or soemthing like that..

That made me think that he might actually be a real magickan- but
that would no mean that all he dose is magick- most of it probably
is illusionism anyway.


-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

I have to doubt...

kakkarot-

Magick i´s hard to learn!
If you say that magickans playing around caused a snow
storm then I have to say it sounds a bit suspicious to me.
Perhaps the peole who told you where lying, - or so mad that they
belived that they had made it happen..
But NO WAY they had made it happen..
And when you did your ritual to stop the storm- it might
have been a coincidence that it stoped snowing.

I live in a pretty usual city in sweden, and I know most of the
people involved in magic and occultism here.. and I know that
even the most advanced could not cause a snow storm.. and
they are good at magick! One of them has hige grades in both the
OTO and the AA.

Magick isn´t about that kind of stuff at al, it´s about inner workings.
It´s not possible to do the kind of things you see in the movies..
or at least not without GREAT effort and usage of energy.

And for negative thoughts beeing psychic attacs... They are not!





-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

Hi!
I would like to know whitch LBRP u guys us.
I do like the works of Crowley, and Í guess he´s
rituals are wery good- but there are so many others.
I have thought about using a basic LBRP and then adapt
it to suit myselfe bu schoosing words of power that I can
relate to.

I have one here:
ATOH
MALKUTH
VE GEBURAH
VE GEDULAH
LE OLAHM
ADONAL
EHIEH
AGLA
RAFAEL
GABRIEL MICHAEL
AURIEL

Yes.. I list of pretty wird names..
I have to say they mean wery little to me-
sure I can check up on the mythology, but it takes
a while of us before a god becomes alive.

Felix


-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

I did some trance meditation yesterday in the eavning, and when in trance
the same kind of feelig comes as from doing NEW- but in the whole body. Here´s the strange part - after the meditation I thought I should sit down and do some NEW, but it was wery hard! I had to give it up again. I tried later that evning and some energy raising- but after a short while I started to feel "wierd" and stoped. I know I get sleeping problems after doing to much NEW. I dunno why..

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

Pleas peopel!
I don´t want to come of as an  a-hole here, but I have to
say on thing. In most cases it is not a psychic/magical assult!!
Before you start go around beliving that you are under an attac-
try to look WERY closely if the reason behinde the negative feelings
you have might have some other source. If it isn´t an attac ( which
it usually isn´t..) then defending yourselfe against it will only have the
opposit effect and make you even more paranoid.

Why should there always be black magickans involved in avery bad
thing that happens? The percentage of the population that have the power
to do an magical assult is wery low. And magickal attacs take loads of work
and time as Fenris said- so people don´t just do it for fun.
The kind of people who would do such a thing for fun probably would never have the ability to gain such powers anyway. Learning magick is lots of hard work...



-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

David-
I agree with you, it is better to learn one system well than jumping around between many different and not learning any of them for real..
But- what if al these different systems are only different names and iterpretations of the same thing?
I strongly doubt that there is such a great difference between the different energys that different systems talk about. So take NEW for example-
Did the NEW energy come into existens as Robert Bruce invented the system? I hardly think so!!
I belive that Robert Bruce didi like this- he used the scientific method and really investigated if there is an energy in the body and how best to manipulate it. I still think that there is ONE energy.
Every system has it´s own name for it.
After al, there are several different gods to - shall we run around beliving that there is one Alah, one Jahve, one krishna and so on.. or shall we se it as different ways to explain one divine source. I for one do not belive that there are a whole pantheon of different gods, all existing att the same time, all real and al monoteistic.. So why should I belive that every kind of name the different systems use for the energy body is a real existing energy?

I belive rather that the things that take place on the astral/ethereal plane are so subjective- or rather influenced by our thoughts, that we shape the one energy into a form that we expect. Another interesting thing is this- How do we know that one energy is percived the same way by al people?
New can feel quite different for different people- And by the way WHAT kind of energy is the NEW energy?

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

It´s al absurd to me..
In my country sweden, if you go out drinking a bottle
of whisky at a party every weekend you are considered
a party animal, but If you happen to smoke a joint you are
consodered a junky..  even though  the alcohole is AS dangerous
as the pot..

I think it´s every mans right to do what he pleases- as long
as he dosn´t hurt anybody. I myselfe stay of drugs and try
to stay of alcohol.. but I would still defend everybodys right
to free will.

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

Hi Kakkarot

You talk about DARK KI...
I woiuld like to hear more about this.
I have always belived that all energy comes from the
self and is created in a way to fitt our needs- or rather
our expectations. So I have to say that I think that ki and
dark ki might be the same thing.. just that one uses the energ
to good or bad things. If the negative side takes overhand
it "turns into" dark ki , and if the positive side takes over it´s
just good old ki. But I don´t know i´m no expert.. but my intuition
tells me that there only is one energy- and that that one is nether
good nor bad, but shapable.

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

Grenada-
What posture did you use /do you use. When working with kundalini the
back has to be rally straight, and I guess it´s quite usuall to do it in Lotus or simply cross leged on the floor. But NEW is usually easier with straight legs.
I always do NEW sitting on my couch, ansd meditation sitting cross leged on the floor. I really think there might be alot to the posture.. But the idea of combining NEW and meditation? Then I guess sitting on a chair might be the best. But since you got such a great result- perhaps you had the right posture! So how did you sit?

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

I looked the topic through a bit more.. and realised that there have been loads
of new posts since I looked last time.. my psot was intended as an aswer to why you couldn´t get your tought personality going during the "fight" at the pub (was it a pub) whith that woman around..

I will read them al through now and post back!

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

Hi Kakarot!

I have not have time to read al posts yet.. only the ones on the first page..
Well, being into ritual magick- that is what I know most about. So I will tap
into my knowledeg on that..
When you work in magick you soemtimes create a "magickal personality"
This is just a fantasy personality that has certain qualitys that you need for
that specific thing you whant to do.  The same thing when you invoke a diety or god- then you can do something called " the assumton (spelling?) of a god form". Basically you just sit down or stand in the posture you associate with that god, and imagine that you are that god, and in that way you "tune in" with the energy that that god represents. In magcik al is just a mental thing.
And in order for these magick personalitys and invocations to work you need not to be disturbed. That´s why you have the whole stage of the altar- to create the right environment.

In your case you seem to have created the same kind of thing with your personalitys.. And it is not at al strange that it might be hard to bring them on in the precense of good freíends that have never seen you like that.

Hm.. make any sense?

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

Grenade- Thats great! Y´ou have really inspired me!

Hm.. I talked to a girl who has used Kundalini- and basically what
she told me was to just sit down meditating and draw energy up the spine.
This made me thing about Robert Bruce, NEW and spinal energy bouncing.
I can´t se that there should be any great difference between NEW and kundalini. Indian religion/mysticism is wery full of supertsticion to. And it all comes down to symbols. The kundalini snake is a symbol for the quality of the energy. Might it be that we create the energy in the way we whant it?
Like this- if you expect something all powerfull and strange like Kundalini- you´ll form the energy into that- if you expect something less supersticious, like NEW, you create a different kind of energy..
After all... the energy surely is created by the mind in the body..

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

There are many different wievs on karma- I don´t belive in the old indian one that every action gives a counter action. I belive that if there is such a thing as karma, it will be to tach a lesson- not to punish.
So If you go out and kill someone in self defence, why should that give a bad karma?
If you on the other hand kill someone because of some other reason, hate, envy... then perhaps you need to learn a lesson to get over these emotions.
But If you later in this life evolve and learn more, then there is no reason for karma comming back to you in the next life.

Personally I think this is what can be learnd from Jesus teachings.
He sai that If you really regrett then you shall be forgiven- and that
is just it. If you really regrett, than you have learnd your lesson and no
longer need to get a kermik reaktion in the next life. (of course this has
nothing with forgivness to do...)

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

[Originally posted by kakkarot:]

quote:Originally posted by kakkarot:
btw, who was it that said you shouldn't practice tai chi and NEW at the same time?

Hi! lol- no one I guess- it was just an example.. the frist two things that came to mind. But I have heard many other systems say that you should stick to there system and not mix it with any others. Personally I think this is only true if one follows a system dogmatically withoút any onw thinkinkg. Or it´s a matter of keeping the followers of a system more strongly tied.

Of course if you know nothing about lets say cocking better stick to the recipy, but íf you have some experience and knowledge on cocking, adding and mixing probably makes the food even better!



-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

There is another saying to " do not paint the devil on the wall"

I do not think that kundalini is much different than NEW - and we all play
around with NEW don´t we..  
It´s a energy raising method- not a way to invoce great satan.

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

yeah I agree with you- who would listen to a guy going around claiming that his body is made of chees lol - but then again when I tell people about the etheric body and that it seems to me that it is easily worked with and manipulated- like with the NEW system- most people look at me as if I would have said that my body was made of chees! but hey, that´s life.

It is an interesting question how the realtion between the physiacll and the energy body is. I belive that the energy body can have a great effect on the physicall one. But I still belive that the physicall body can do things on it´s own too ( get sick for example..)
How strong the effect on the physicall body by the energy body is probably depends on how much one works with the energy body -
how strong the energyn body is.

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

To touch the philosophic question about what knowledge and truth is..
It is wery hard to define some things as true or untrue. After all in the idealistic worldwiev you canno´t know that anything then your own mind is relly existing. And who can prowe that we are not just living in a fake fantasy existense like in the matrix? I don´t belive this- but it´s impossible to counter prove it! But I do belive that reality is wery subjective, and more important that there are parts af reality that are depending on our own belifes. After all, all magickal ork is done on the ,mentale plane and is totaly dependent on our belif in it. So in one way it is wery real, but in another way it´s not real in the same sense as other things in the physicall world. But the important thing is that it works- magick works. I feel the same way about different energy raising methods- perhaps they will never be possible to prov to exist objectivly- but that dosn´t matter wery much as long as they are real for the individual and actually work.  

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --