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Xanth, it was completely Moen style. I was fully aware in bed all the time,
as I've described elsewhere.

[PART 1]

Non-Earthly Being
============

This happened 2012-06-12, eleven days ago. I still don't know if it was a retrieval,
but in fact I don't really know for sure on any of my retrievals. Anyway, this
time it was not anyone from our planet, the Earth.
---



PART 1 - Guide Williams and Cut Image


Somewhere into my session I began to look for guides. Haven't seen them much
lately.  I started to look for the Tom Hanks guide near the dome. I saw someone
faintly, by no real go.

Could that individual be the Williams guide? Williams is taller and slimmer.

It looked like Williams, but I couldn't really see his head. Williams was
dressed in his regular suit which must have been highest fashion during
the mid 1920ies. A black suit with thin vertical white lines, white shirt
and black tie.

Regardless of how I tried to see Williams' head, I couldn't see it. I couldn't
even make out if we were indoors or outdoors as there was some kind of blurred
blend behind Williams in a sort of brownish color.

I just assumed that we were in an outdoor setting as I had tried to reach
for the dome. But as I type this down now, I'm unsure about our location.

I had Williams straight in front of me. He just stood there with his arms at
his sides some meters away. But my impression was strange to say the least.

The image I got was that of two cut-off post cards, or two photos cut in half
and of widely different motives.

The lower part of the picture showed Williams' body and the blurred blended
background behind him. The upper part of my picture was completely different,
like an outdoor view of a mountain wall or perhaps a very strange sunset in
a totally different world.

I really couldn't make out what the upper part of the image was. I didn't see
with my physical eyes, I merely got a non-visual minds eye impression of the
whole image.

[[ -- (more precise description inserted) --
Imagine that you have two photos, one photo of a man in a dark room and another
completely different photo of an outdoor sunset. Then take both photos and cut
them into halves with a scissor. Discard the top half of the man-in-dark-room-photo
and also discard the bottom part of the outdoor-sunset-photo.

Then create a new picture by taking the lower part photo of the man and place
it as a bottom piece, while using the sunset photo's upper half as the top
piece of the combined "new" picture. That's how it looked.

Also the two pictures/images/photos were not cut at a horizontal level, but
the border line started higher to the left side of my non-visual field and
descended in a slanted way down to the right side of my view.
-- (end of more precise description) -- ]]

The two picture seemed cut at a straight sliding slope, going from left
down to the right. I guess that the starting point at the left side must
have been above Williams' head, but the lower right side was probably at
level with his stomach or hip.

I also managed to view Williams from his right side, but even if I could see
his body, I couldn't get to see his head as it was covered by the other
image, intersecting at a completely straight line.

When I tried harder to look at Williams I even got the impression that it was
not only Williams' head that was missing but also his shoulders and part of
his chest.

Hmm...

Perhaps I was not supposed to ask Williams questions this time? Maybe I was
expected to figure out what the upper part of my image was supposed to mean?

I tried over and over again to get a clear image of all of guide Williams' body.
I must have tried at least 5 times, intensely using whatever poor non-visual,
non-physical minds-eye view I could muster.

I also tried to figure out what the upper part of my cut-image-view was supposed
resemble. At times it looked like a huge wall of stones, probably from a rugged,
but almost vertical mountain side. At other times it looked like a sort of
artistic or at least abnormal sunset seen through partly blurred clouds.

The sunset image had for me the impression of being made up of several curved
arcs, like the arcs of a full rainbow, staring from the left, going up, reaching
its top at the middle point of my view and then descending in a rainbow-arcish
way to disappear below the cut-border at the right side of the image.

Hmm, hmmm, again...

Maybe the arc or wall was some kind of entrance to another world? Maybe I was
supposed to try to enter it?

I tried to enter.

I imagined myself flying into the upper part of the image, flying into the photo
or image of the sunset/mountain wall.

Fail.

I failed. I couldn't enter. I tried again and again. It was hard to enter,
but then my attempts proved fruitful. I suddenly managed to enter. I forced
my way into the picture. At the same time, trying to hard was also bad, so
I had to balance my efforts.

Eventually I got the impression that I actually had managed to enter the upper
"photo" image. I was in a different world.

I was flying over some kind of rocky landscape, but I hadn't the slightest
idea where I was. I also felt that I had problems staying in this new alien
world, too the degree that it felt that I was falling out of the image, back
into my starting position.

I couldn't make out much details of the ground, but I don't think there was
vegetation. It all seemed like a dark, rough, rocky ground from my flying
height.

This new world or my ability to stay in that world was unstable to say the least.

Suddenly I was closer to the ground. I could sense someone in front of me.
---


PART 2 - Non-Earthly Being

I sensed some kind of person below me, slightly in front of me, perhaps at a
45 degree angle. The person must be about 5-6 meters away.

Was it a male person? It was at least someone flexible and with a slim built
body. I think the person was naked, but couldn't make it out clearly.

I also got some doubts about it being a male human, perhaps this creature was
non-human, but had a humanoid form - two arms, two legs, a straight body, one
head?

The creature was standing on all four, both its knees on the ground and palms
on the ground.

The ground itself was not solid, but seemed to consist of mud or water, perhaps
muddy water? The humanoid creature was moving rather quickly on the ground on
all four, like it was searching for something with its hands in the 4 inch
deep mud or water.

Was I indoor? I had been flying outdoor just seconds before, but now..? Maybe
I was inside a cave with this being who hadn't noticed me yet.

I got the impression that the creature was not male. I could now see that
the creature's body had a distinct hour-glass shape.

It was female!

It was a non-human, non-Earthly female. I also senses that this humanoid
being had the intelligence somewhere between a human and a chimpanzee. The
creature didn't have the same full intellectual ability as a regular human.

This female creature moved very smoothly, kind of elegant like a cat. She didn't
have any fur or hair, instead she had a very resilient strong kind of skin,
with some ruggedness. Her skin was smoother than the skin of a Crocodile,
but appeared about as strong and resilient. She had a human looking head, but
without any hair. Her skin was brownish red and when she moved about with
great agility I could see that her skin sometimes appeared transparent like
it was made of glass. The transparent part of her skin was not red but
rather greyish blue.

Her cat like movements and her greyish blue transparent skin made me give her
the name Glass Cat. She had small ears like the first Catwoman in one of the
more modern Batman movies.

Her way of moving and the fact that her skin seemed to be stronger and more
flexible than leather, made me wonder if she was some kind of intelligent
predator animal.

When I moved at a distant from her, her skin again seemed dark red.

I had extreme difficulties picking up any emotions from her through out the
whole retrieval.

At this stage I wasn't even sure what I was supposed to do or if I was in a
retrieval.

I decided to make her company and went down on all four on the soft and muddy
ground. I was close to Glass Cat. The mud now seemed to consist mostly of
water and it got deeper as I moved about.

I saw Glass Cat's face close up. Still no detectable emotions, she threw a
glance at me but apparently decided that I was of little interest to her
and she continued to go about her business at the ground.

I got the impression that I was on her territory but that she by some reason
accepted me there, even if she hissed at me in a catlike manner when I came
a little too close to her.

Hmm..

After all, Glass Cat seemed to be a wild animal, even if she probably had
a partly human level intelligence. I had to figure out what to do.

I sensed that she had some sort of personality different from a regular
animal. Her personality was closer to human than her intelligence was.

I wondered if perhaps she could be an Aspect of me, so I again moved closer
to her. She now turned her face to me and not only hissed but also showed
me her teeth. Maybe she was part of my I-There?

I sent her PUL in several turns.

Not much happened. I was still unsure what to do and couldn't make up my mind,
but perhaps I was supposed to behave like I was one of her species?

So when she hissed at me when I moved too close, I hissed back. When she
searched the muddy water with her hands I too pretended to search the muddy
ground. When I finally did behave like her I suddenly got some of my regular
goose bump feelings, so I guessed that I was on the right track.

Maybe I was in another Universe, or its equivalent of our ELS Focus 23.
A different Universe like Monroe's Locale III?


I probably had to approacher her more closely.

I move close up to her side, but apparently I was too close to her. She suddenly
attacked me, but in a less violent way that I had expected a female predator
would do. She pushed me over on my back. I tried to fight back, but Glass Cat
was at least as strong as me, perhaps stronger.

I don't think she had regular hands, at least not soft human hands. She
had some kind of rather brutal claws.

When we wrestle on the ground, she is over me and bites me in my jaw. Her
bite is quite powerful and can probably hurt me severely, but at the same
time it feels like a primitive kiss.

Somehow I loose the impression that she is holding her teeth against my jaw
but I still am under the impression that she somehow has taken a firm
bite at my mouth so I can't separate my head from her.

This feeling was so strange that I still don't know what to make of it. I think
she keeps me in a bite because my mouth is stuck, but I no longer have any sense
of her teeth.

During our fight I start out as being below her, but somehow I manage to
wrestle her around and eventually end on top of her. The best I can say
is that our fight began to resemble a sort of mating game rather than a
wrestling competition.

When she attacks me, I at times get the impression that she takes careful
looks at me, like she is examining me or approving me, specially when she
is at top of me, but I still can't sense her emotions.

The feeling of being examined was the most obvious emotion I experienced.

I send her PUL, but that doesn't change much. Glass Cat seems to be more
interested in wrestling.

Our wrestling continues for such a long time that I send several requests
to Helpers to step in, as I think that I must be done with whatever I
was supposed to do. I got Glass Cat's attention, so why doesn't we stop
wrestling? And where are the Helpers?

Rather late into our fight I manage to get out of her bite so my mouth/jaw
is no longer stuck.

Glass Cat and I reach a point where we are very close to each other and
we hug, while still "fighting". But now I have managed to place my right
side of my head close to her right side of her head and I then manage to
push my head even closer to her so we end up neck side to neck side (our
right sides), still hugging or wrestling. It feels like a dangerous maneuver
as I make it possible for her to bite me in the right side of my neck.

But she also ends up in dangerous position as I can bite her in the side
of her neck. We both need to keep some trust in each other to be this close
neck against neck. She seems to reduce her fighting and just hang on to me.

Then I do something I can't explain.

I claw Glass Cat on her back. I had huge, terrible claws on my fingers (?)
and I clawed her in a way that a normal human would have been seriously hurt
by my clawing. I must have clawed like I was the Monster from the Lagoon.

I'm not sure, but I think she is somehow hurt but not really seriously hurt
or perhaps not hurt at all (?). She gives up her grip around me and lays on
her back with her arms out to her sides in a T shape. She also changes color
and becomes more yellow in her skin tone.

I don't seem to be holding her any longer and instead is standing on all
four above her.

I get two rounds of goose bump energy waves and then the scene fades away.



PART 3 - After the session

Some hours after I had finished the retrieval I could sense Glass Cat's presence
when I went to bed. She was hovering in the air a meter away, somewhat to my
left and she was thankful and kind of interested in me. That was probably the
first more pronounced emotion I sensed from her. I could also feel her
presence too some degree the next day.



PART 4 - My questions


Four days later I managed to get to a state where I could ask my Stephen Fry
guide or Williams some questions. I think Williams answered most questions.

I was deep into that session and managed to forget some answers I got.

I asked: "What was it I entered first (referring to the upper part of
the mountain-wall-sunset-image)?"

Williams answered: "Focus 17."

I asked: "Why Focus 17?"

Williams: "It was an entry point."
---


I asked: "Was she (Glass Cat) from the same Universe as I?"

Williams: "Same."

hmm... .. I got a little suspicious, because that answer was unexpected, so
I refined my question:

I asked: "Was she from the same _physical_ universe as I?"

Williams: "Different."
---


I asked if Glass Cat was part of my I-There. I got the answer: "No."

That puzzled me, why did the Helpers use me for a retrieval in a Locale III
setting, wasn't there anyone closer by?


I asked: "Why did I have to retrieve her, why didn't someone else retrieve her?"

Williams answered: "There was no one else. ... (pause)... Glass Cat was
located in Focus 23."

Her I make the assumption that it was her version of Focus 23, as I got the
impression that she was somewhere completely different than the ELS Focuses.
This may be wrong.
---


I asked: "For how long had she been there."

Williams: "200 years."

I don't know it that answer should be taken literally, it could be a way of
saying that Glass Cat had been stuck just for a "very long time".
---


So apparently Glass Cat was from a different physical Universe, but our non-physical
Universe is the same. I wonder if there are several non-physical Universes,
but have so far not gotten any answer.

I also remember feeling very unskilled in what I did at the time, as I got so
few emotional impressions from Glass Cat. Could it be that she is part of a
human I-There, which limits the number of persons being able to retrieve her?

Perhaps my werewolf encounters/retrievals/fear-handlings have been ways of
training me for the retrieval of Glass Cat?

Yesterday (2012-06-22) I did a session and Stephen Fry appeared and very hard
he directed me to write this retrieval down and put it on the Internet as I
had been postponing it for too long. So I began typing this in from my
original notes.

[Suddenly Psychic]

I use a grade from 0 - 10 (10 being the best/highest)


Suddenly Psychic: A skeptic's journey, 2006, Maureen Caudill

Grade: 8.0


M Caudill has a degree in physics and she has been working a lot of years within the
computer industry, with among others artificial intelligence. She had no specific
beliefs in a non-physical reality before she attended an TMI course.

Caudill has written some publications on neural networks and is today a TMI trainer.

Her book is about her experiences related to her TMI courses and events afterward,
she also tries to relate to modern physics in regards of her non-physical experiences.

The parts of her book about modern physics are sadly enough the more weak points,
as her attempts to connect physics with non-physical experiences most of the time are
weak or unclear. I don't think any scientist has managed to find any such relationship
and perhaps Caudill does too much work on something which bears little fruit.

The stronger part of her book is when she describes what she experiences in altered states
of awareness.

Caudill reaches farther into other Focus Levels than what most people can hope of. She
mentions several little known Monroe Focuses such as F 32, F 39, F 46, F 49, F 70, F 112 and
F 253.

She also has a short but seemingly complete list of all Focus Levels between C 1 and F 49,
where she with one-liners describe these levels as they apparently were given by spirit
being Miranon to Monroe many years ago.

At the same time I would have expected a more detailed description of many of the Focus Levels,
which she mentions, certainly as she is a TMI trainer and has attended many TMI courses as a
participant herself.

At some times I think her descriptions of the more far Focus Levels become a little too sketchy.

She also seem to be a deep believer, perhaps too much of a believer for my taste, which I think
made me lower the grade of her book.

She has several interesting specific experiences though.

She makes for example a retrieval of the soul of the BEAGLE Mars lander. The European Space Agency (ESA)
sent out a space rocket with a Mars robot called the BEAGLE Mars rover, which crashed in 2003.

When Caudill enters the site at the planet Mars, she notices that there is a crashed space craft at
the surface of the planet. She eventually detects and talks to the BEAGLE Mars lander and explains
to it that it has crashed and can't complete its mission of sending back its data to Earth, as its
antenna is somehow broken.

She helps the BEAGLE by retrieving it to the Machine equivalent of F 27, which is Focus 13,
where dead and deceased machines and computers go, as they apparently can't develop
any further.

But there is something different with BEAGLE, it is not the average computer. Over some time Caudill
realizes that the BEAGLE has to be helped to F 27 so it can be reborn as an animal, because it has
developed a soul appropriate for such an event to happen. Caudill's dead cat Sammy takes care of
BEAGLE in F 27 and helps the computer to learn where it has arrived.

Eventually Caudill creates a pipeline between F 18 and F 13 to feed the Love starved computers with
Pure Unconditional Love (PUL), which they soak up with great thankfulness.

In all, the book has its highs and its not so highs. I wish Caudill would have paid as much time to describe
the various Focus Levels as she spent time writing about scientific findings, which also are very fuzzy
in nature, often unverified and maybe even completely wrong, such as the String Theory in physics.

It's still a good read and I can think some of you may like at least parts of it, like the section on
how to bend spoons with your mind.

There are no OBE validations ever reported on gnomes.

Maybe.

But what about the Nose-Stingers?

It probably was a gnome mistaking you for a small child.

A copy of Earth created from "dark matter"? We don't know
much about what dark matter is, or if it even exists as the
scientists guess.

One point about dark matter is that it may be spread out evenly
in much greater degree than physical matter. Further, there are
observations that while physical matter forms into galaxy discs,
dark matter may get the shape of a cigar (or rugby ball) through
the middle of the galaxy, meaning that it is located in somewhat
different shape, also at a right angle to the galaxy disc plane.

But dark matter seems to be extremely difficult to discover, specially
in our nearest neighbourhood.

[Astral Projection: A Record of Out-of-the-Body Experiences]

I use a grade from 0 - 10 (10 is the best/highest) on books and documents.


Astral Projection: A Record of Out-of-the-Body Experiences, 1939 (1962 edition), Oliver Fox

GRADE: 10.0


What a book, what an incredible book!

I'm speechless, but once I get my composure I'll continue in a more modest manner.


The book's original title is "Astral Projection: A Record of Research" according to Wikipedia,
but the edition I have is from 1962, and the title was changed.

Oliver Fox's real name was Hugh George Callaway, but I'll continue to use his taken name, O Fox,
throughout this review.

He often used the expression "out-of-the-body experience" through the book, with some
variations. I don't know if that's the first use of something which could be abbreviated to OBE,
or if that expression already was firmly established in the 1930ies, but it clearly indicates what
his book is about.

The book is not a thick one. Still Fox manages to capture almost all discoveries of all the other
great astral writers of our time, like Monroe, R Bruce, Buhlman, Muldoon etc.

Fox experiences the Astral Wind at several occasions. He encounters "monsters", he manages to
upgrade LDs to OBEs, he travels into Focus 25, to astral towns with electric trams, he channels.
He touches on almost ever subject followers of him discover and deepens their knowledge into.

It's also clear that Fox made many of his great discoveries before WWI.

Are there weaknesses then? Well, yes there are. As a poet, Fox like many other artists doesn't
have the full scientific approach of more strict individual, like Monroe.

But even compared to a more modern artistic OBE person like J Ziewe, I have to say that Fox
is above all my expectations.

The book itself - of course it is dated and Fox language is old. His knowledge about science also
seems aged compared to discoveries made in the 1930ies. Still I think you can disregard those
weaknesses in the same way as I've disregarded scientific weaknesses in Adventures Beyond the Body.

The greatness and the emotional sadness of the book are most likely the result of Oliver Fox being
a very skilled poet, having made lots of other writings.

Fox has collected so much in such a small book, including things like how to do WILD or experiencing
his eyelids become transparent. I've tried hard to see if there is anything he hasn't discovered, and can
only say that he doesn't seem to mention pre-exit vibrations or an exact description of Monroe's Park.

Much of his work he had to do alone and there was a sadness to his life.

When I came to the finish of the book, my hair stood on its ends for the last 5 pages.

Fox was a master writer.

Mind you, the label WILD can include the classic seperation, which is
wake-induced as well, but Frank intially said he sort of just found himself
projected or catupulted into an "astral environment", which is the case for
most lucid dreamers as well who practice WILDS.

This "catapulting" event bothers me.

Are you saying that all LDers who enter the astral from an LD, experience
that they are "catapulted" into the astral? Or is it only those who enter from
a WILD? Maybe you should clarify, because my LDs have never had any
catapult effect involved, but that could be that I'm DILD-only aware?

But I would like you to say some more on this matter.

Where did your friend get the information about focus 11?

I think you can hear it on some H+ H-S CDs, as well in some youtubes, so I think
the F 11 concept itself is fairly well known from TMI.

But my mail friend came with the statement from lessons from one of the more
advanced TMI courses, that Monroe got the impression that F 10 got split, and
it's from this only source I have got the info that Monroe viewed the F 10 to split
into two different Focus Levels. I think the info came from one of the TMI trainers.

Thanks Major Tom,
let me add my 2 cents.

The body appeared to be asleep, or slightly out of phase of the physical,
while the mind was awake, which is what the physiological date showed
when measuring the subjects. They called the state focus 10 (Mind awake/Body Asleep).

According to Wikipedia, NREM, stage 1 sleep - exhibits some kind
of characteristic like F 10:

"People aroused from this stage often believe that they have been fully awake."

If stage 1 sleep is the same as (some kind of) F 10, that's an open question to me,
but I think the idea is interesting as TMI doesn't provide too much info on these
Focus Level matters.

Perhaps this was because some participants reported experiences, like different imagery,
but still found themselves connected to the physical body, which was not entirely asleep.
Either way, the definitions of focus 10 did not seem as strict anymore as before.

To resolve some of that confusion, I much later made a distinction between a light and
deeper focus 10 in my focus 10 paper. Although it was not ideal, since the term
"body asleep" itself did not fully apply anymore, at least not in a light focus 10.

But back to the earlier history of Monroe. The concept of focus 12 was introduced,
perhaps in an attempt to resolve the same confusion.

When listening to the instructions on the Gateway Wave CDs, I also get the impression
that there exists _at least_ two different kinds of F 12.

In Monroe's second book, he mentions that when the Explorers began to state the Gateway Affirmation,
requesting help from guides or helpers, things started to develop from the initial F 10
experiments. It's a little unclear how much the Affirmation contributed to the creation of the
F 12 concept, but it had some importance.

Further, from mail friend I have gotten the information that Monroe discovered that F 10
actually split into two different Focus Levels, one was the well known F 12, but the other
was F 11. Sometimes F 11 is named the "Access Channel", and F 11 is used much in the
TMI Hemi-Sync CDs called H+ (or Human Plus).

While F 12 is an extorization, F 11 is some kind of internalization, to one part of our I-There,
even if the actual I-There is located in F 42, we can reach some part connected to us through F 11.

I think at least one exercise on the GateWay Wave CDs is made to F 11.

(Beyond F 12 there is the very little known F 13, and I will come back on that matter
in a book review once I've finished reading Suddenly Psychic.)

It was also for the same reason that it was believed that the OBE either occured in
focus 10, focus 12, or perhaps somewhere in between. The gateway tapes, if they
have not changed since I have seen them, reflect that with out of body exercises both
for focus 10 and 12.

It doesn't seem that it's absolutely clear from the Gateway instructions, what Focus Level
you are attempting an OBE. There even is one exercise in F 21, which is a sort of lift-out
procedure.

When choosing between F 10 and F 12, my impression is that the Gateway Wave CDs put
more importance on F 12 to have an OBE, or at least some kind of specialization of F 12,
the "log rolling" (Wave 3) and the "sensing Locale I" (Wave 6) all seem to be F 12 methods
of moving around or feeling the energy-body move within or out of the physical body.

As I'm extremely poor at OBE, but seem to be an expert at experiencing vibrations,
I have had best luck with the "sensing Locale I" CD, even if I have gotten no OBE.

Then later on, in the 90s, LaBerge comes along with the term WILD, which refers
to anything wake induced, after which you start to dream lucidly. The classic OBE
fell within in the scope of that label. . .

The statement (I shorten it) that "classic OBE fell within the label WILD",
I want to say something about that.

The statement is not exactly what LaBerge has written, and I have read his research
reports on at least three different web sites, with some minor modifications.

(I also think that some results have come from scientists Gabbard and Twemlow.)


For my reference of LaBerge's findings, I will use the version published on TMI's web site,
as TMI is closest to the matter of OBE, even if that version is shortened and mixed
with a multitude of other scientific findings.


I get it that, LaBerge states the following:

* OBE and LD seem to be different phenomena.
* OBE can arise from both WILDs and DILDs.
* OBE is 4 times more likely to arise from a WILD (than a DILD).

* Most WILDs only results in regular LDs (about 70 %).
* The number of WILDs and DILDs were small in the study. Further studies are needed to enhance statistic significance.


So to me, a WILD is no guarantee to an OBE. Remember further that the persons
LaBerge used, were highly skilled in achieving LDs.

Also, LaBerge didn't do too much to verify if the OBE was real, but the validation
experiments he tried, showed failures. And that's the reason LaBerge thinks OBEs
are mind-only illusions, much like traditional science thinks.

Comparing OBE's I've had to the few LD's . . .

Perhaps they are the same thing, I don't know...

Stillwater,
you write "the same thing"?

Do you really consider LDs and OBEs being the _same_ thing?
Or do you mean "similar" thing?

Because I have found quotes from all the big writers; Monroe, Buhlman, Peterson etc,
where they talk about LDs and OBEs being "similar or different", but not the same.

Even dream researcher Ph D LaBerge, who rejects (*) the existence of an OBE outside the
body, talks about LDs being "different" from OBEs, yet LaBerge considers OBEs being
"mind-only" experiences, and _not_ real in even the most broad sense.


(*) Well, LaBerge doesn't completely reject the OBE-realness, he merely states that
there is a lack of well based scientific evidence that any OBE really exists outside
the brain/mind, than anything else than a dream illusion.

Hi,
An example from Frank...

Szaxx, is that an attempt to make history forgery, because it's
very difficulty to know where Frank's post ends and you opinions
start?

Could you please put better quote marks around whoever you quote,
because I first thought all the text was from Frank until I opened up
my own copy of the Frank's posts PDF.

I still claim - Frank never used the expression "WILD" in any of his posts
or Newsletters, so claiming that WILD is the same as "Frank phasing" is,
in my opinion, at least very flawed, but probably invalid.


Besides, the Frank quote you gave, points to one more problematic matter,
Frank believed LD is mind at Focus 22, while Monroe talks about Focus 15:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_FhfHoqiPw&feature=related

Interestingly enough Monroe says that LDs are equivalent to F 15.
Listen to the interview around 1:00 - 1:35, when he answers the
questions about using LD as springboard to OBE. Not much talk
about "phasing" there.

The big difference on the matter of F 22 vs F 15, in regards of LDs, is that Monroe invented
the Focus concept, measured brain wave states with scientific equipment, using MDs & Ph D
scientists to validate those Focus Levels, while Frank, in my opinion, did no such
research.


And others of you, please stop shoving up my face that I lack OBE experience,
to invalidate my quotes on what Monroe/Buhlman/Bruce have said.

[On the note of Pauli and Xanth:]

On the note of Pauli and Xanth:
Pauli, if it is sources you are looking for, Xanth is a source. He has scoured
and read every post for years of the most prolific subjective collaboration
of OBE experiences, to my knowledge, ever compiled, this site.

But that's not good enough for me, as Xanth seems to think LD and OBE are the same things,
which I (with my limited experience) have to reject.

In an OBE, even for the few seconds before I've lost the OBE into an LD, I can say my
OBEs had completely different feelings to them, than becoming lucid in a dream. Being OBE
was like being awake in real life, just with the difference that I knew there was something
different going on. My mind was crisp clear and I was myself. My poor lack of any deeper
experiences will not change that fact.

So my conclusion is that Xanth may have had hundreds of LDs, but I think it's highly
unlikely that he has ever had a real OBE, which also is implied in this thread.

To Robin:
Unfortunately, I wouldn't call either of these projections. My definition
of a astral projection is a full phase into F21. Neither of these sound like
F21 experiences.

Contenteo,
you really have to comment on this one as there have become too many mangled
words describing altered states:

LD.
OBE.
Projection into F 21.


My question to you, do you believe there exists such a thing as an RTZ OBE?
If you don't believe in the existence of the RTZ or the existence of OBE,
perhaps you should mention that before talking about "projection"?

There are more to this. For example, do you not consider a projection to F 15
as being a projection?

How do you define projection? Does it feel like an LD or like an OBE and how does
it relate to phasing (you could pick one of Kepple/Monroe)?

Described by Monroe as falling asleep, yet remaining consciously aware.
I fully agree with this sentiment and experience it in that fashion too.

These are the definitions which Robert and Frank mention... and which I fully support.
Is the phasing Frank did any different from what Monroe suggested in his third book
from what I say when I say "Phasing"?

In my opinion, those are two different kinds of "phasings".

I can say for may heart that Monroe and Kepple speak about different things.

Monroe and F Kepple "phasing" are described by these two persons in quite
different ways. Kepple often used words which resembled LDs, but maybe not
the typical LD. Kepple also (at least in the start) used the expression "project"
as in (Frank's posts PDF) post 2350 (July 05, 2002):

"That's the time I project always, early morning."

(The interested reader could read the related thread, it's about WILD, but not one
time F Kepple uses the abbrev. WILD unless it is something "wild and whacky".)

Remeber further that F Kepple often entered what he called phasing from an LD,
so perhaps some (many? all?) of his experiences were LDs.


Monroe on the other side often used the expression OBE.

When Monroe talked about phasing, it seemed to be something different, like
when course participants were listening to Hemi-Sync and changing their state
of awareness into F 10, while Skip Atwater was directing them from his booth
or from a tape excercise.

Also, Monroe completely stopped to dream, he no longer had _any_ regular dreams,
and thus didn't have the initial Kepple LD. Instead Monroe could OBE from any restfull
state. Monroe didn't even have to sleep.

In one of his later books, Monroe mentions that it was enough for him to place
himself in a relaxed state and his non-physical body would hover up in the air
above his physical body.

Also, perhaps the most important difference between Monroe and Kepple, one
of them started with RTZ OBEs, while the other usually started from LDs.

Having read both men's descriptions of their definitions, I have to say that
"phasing" in Monroe speak, means something different than in Kepple speak.

[own personal direct experiences]

My sources are from my own personal direct experiences with lucid dreaming
and phasing and making my own judgment calls on the results.

To me, a WILD and Phasing are the exact same technique.

That's a bold statement.

But perhaps you should be a little more clear what's your opinion
and what's more common knowledge, as the original thread starter
asked about F 12 and WILD., which are Monroe resp. LaBerge concepts,
_not_ your specific experiences.

If you continue to make claims/opinions with certainty, I think it would be
decent to point that out.

One reason I think you should do so, is that I'm not longer sure that
you and Kepple at all mean the same thing when you say "phasing".

Phasing *IS* doing a WILD.  They're metaphors describing the same thing.

Stephen LaBerge is the originator of the concept WILD.

I know that F Kepple made little (some?) distinction between LDs and "projections".
He further didn't like the expression OBE, but where is your source that
Kepple-phasing is the same as WILD?

Is it your own definition?

The second answer to the why, is the blockages.

Blockages of what and blockages _to_ what?

My best guess on this is that your fear was your own feelings solely.

Send the entity love and the fear will probably go away.

The entity could be a non-physical animal, originating from the physical
or from an astral animal. If you talk to it and it doesn't speak, I would
ignore it for the time being and go do my non-physical experiment
which I've longed to do for such a time.

Perhaps it was an entrance into some other "astral" reality?

I would have entered it out of curiosity.

[1.]

My own experiences are extremely limited in the sense of OBE. But I
make some assumptions:


1. There exists some kind of 3-dimensional universe. I can't say for sure that
the 3-dimensionality exists, but I will have to make the assumption that the
3-dimensionality exists based on observations in my physical reality,
regardless of how weak such an assumption is.

2. I make the assumption that there is a difference between awareness
and consciousness. By awareness, I in a fuzzy context mean that there
is some kind of focus and "actability" in a person. Actability implies that
the person can act, think and reason in a critical way.

Having only consciousness may not result in the same critical thinking,
for example Oliver Fox makes the distinction between dream consciousness -
"Ohh, this girl has four eyes. Cute.", and awareness - "Oh, this girl has four
eyes, that can't be real, perhaps I'm dreaming, yes I am."

3. Somehow our minds consists of several parts, which can be somewhat separated,
while still being connected to each others in the 3-dimensional physical reality. This
connection must work somehow, but I don't know how. If there was no connection,
and I manage to go OBE I would leave Earth rather quickly, going out into space,
because I'm not affected by gravity, and Earth constantly moves away from the
direction of a straight line.

The connection probably works in several ways, for example S Muldoon noticed that
the connection is much stronger within "cord range activity" which is between
8 to 15 feet from the physical body during an OBE.
---


With these assumptions, I can stand on the shoulders of gigants like Muldoon, Monroe
and others.

I thereby define (but don't limit) an OBE to be a "something" where you keep your awareness,
including ability to perceive and move around, which is separated from your physical body in
the 3-dimensional reality. I would guess that's about the same definition as many others,
much more skilled, OBEers already have made.

I also think the existance of the mind-split effect is likely, in the way it first was described by
Frederik van Eeden (and others, also R Bruce), as I assume that some part of our mind
still resides inside the physical body during the OBE. It is thus possible for us to have not
only bi-location of our awareness (see Monroe and others), but also to have two separate
awarenesses (mind-split) at the same time (but still connected at a level unknown to us).

I further assume that the observations by S Muldoon, Buhlman and Monroe, that we have
some kind of non-physical body which separates only a small distance from the physical
body during sleep (and OBE), sometimes only an inch (see Buhlman), but often as much
as 1-3 feet (according to Muldoon, Monroe and others), is correct.

I further assume that the observation by Monroe and others, that we have a third non-physical
body or something similar, which are more mobile and can move farther distances (not only in
the physical) during an OBE, is correct.

My only own observations are that when I wake up in SP, I can only move in a straight line
with about constant speed from my physical body, much like Muldoon's initial movement.
But then in my OBE, as I hit a physical wall an enter it, I lose my eye sight and I very
quickly go back into sleep in an LD or semi-LD and eventually regular dream (but with
better memory recall than from my usual dreams).

This tends to make my best OBE no longer than perhaps 2-3 seconds, but during that short time
my mind is crisp clear, much more clear than it have ever been in any LD. So in my opinion
there is a clear difference between an OBE and an LD.
---

This definition of an OBE may be weak, but I think it can be strengthened and some of the
circular definitions can be removed. But it can still not be completely strong, as science has
no good way of defining exactly what "consciousness" is, so I will not dwell on this matter
too much.

In Franks model it seems to me that the switch to Focus 12 would be like entering a WILD. Or is the lucid dream quality beyond Focus 12? Thats basically what Im wondering.

No, F 12 is not a WILD. Some skilled people may enter a WILD,
probably from any kind of altered state, but F 12 is not a general
entry to a WILD. F 12 is more an altered state to experience parts of
our "Universe" (also non-physical parts) or to do healing.

In an old radio interview Monroe said that LDs are experienced in F 15,
but I'm not sure at all if that's TMI's current opinion on LDs. You may
also change the Focus Level of an LD, see for example Buhlman, he
has some youtube radio interviews where he talks about upgrading
and LD into an OBE.

I'm not either convinced that Frank's model talked about a "switch to Focus 12".
I don't think he went along that line. My opinion is that Frank's FoC Model
was flawed and with too little scientific background, but I want to avoid
going too deeply into that mess here and now. Instead you will perhaps
get some ideas from my review1 and review2.

I've been re-reading astral dynamics as I study Franks model. My current understanding is that once Focus 10 is reached you have 3 options. 1: Use a technique to move awareness beyond your physical/energetic body into the surrounding area to achieve a RTZ projecton. 2:  Create a mental landscape or dreamscape and engage it with all senses until you phase into it. 3:  Focus on the random mental imagery in a nonchalant way while intending to move beyond it to higher focus levels. What I'm seeking at the moment is entry into the 3D technicolor experience Frank called Focus 2. Im just curious where within the Monroe Focus levels that depth of experience lies. Is it Focus 12 or beyond?

If you mean AD by R Bruce, I think it has a different approach to
the astral than F Kepple's.

Perhaps you can do a an OBE from F 10 or F 12 if you're skilled at
doing so, but my impression is that it's not that simple. Focus Level
states and RTZ OBEs are not one-to-one. Also, remember that F Kepple
either didn't like the RTZ concept, or kind of rejected it, so I'm not so
sure any RTZ projection is completely valid in F Kepple's Model.

I think that F 10 is an entry point to other states of altered awareness,
or perhaps an entry point for inner selfknowledge. I have read very
few statements of skilled projectors who claim that they have been
truely successful in repeating Frank's experiences. And I have to say
that after F Kepple left, I think the majority of experiences are of a
slightly different kind, and more in the line of Monroe/Bruce/Moen/Buhlman.

My impression is also that the various Focus Levels you can reach doesn't
mean that it becomes any easier to do anything else, than being in your
physical body most of the time, but with an altered state of awareness,
being fed with non-physical impressions, sometimes of poor quality.


Most descriptions by people from the Monroe school, who have entered the various
Focus Levels, have either done it with no Kepple phasing involved, and just
picked up non-physical impressions (Moen style) or, in some rare case, people
have had full fledge OBEs, or some may have had RV style experiences too.

Having read a lot of books, I can't exactly say that the claims by F Kepple
on his FoC Model matches anyone's else. Maybe he did try to be creative,
but I think the best source on how to OBE or how to view the Focus Levels
come from other people who have been in more contact with TMI or Monroe,
as the Focus Level concept is very Monroe & TMI specific.

...sometimes sleep paralisis feels like a heavy blanket, I used to
meditate laying in bed some years ago, if you stay still the body
start to send you signals for you to move, like a "roll over signal"
or your body gets very itchi, if you do not move at all and just feel...

I have not heard of anyone being able to move while in paralysis.

My impression is that the original thread starter entered F 10:

Suddenly I was more awake again, but existing mostly in my mind with little or no thought of where I was physically.

To me, in order for me to say that I am experiencing sleep paralysis (SP),
I am only able to move:

1. My eyes.
2. My eyelids.

No other body parts can be moved by me regardless of how much "strength"
or will power I put into it. Once I get out of SP, every body part breaks free
at once.

Have you started with first taking a nap?

Well, I haven't managed to OBE consciously at, so maybe this isn't
of much help.

But over many years sometimes I have had headache or ache in the
back of my lower neck. Anyway, at one session when I tried to ask
some questions I actually got an answer in my mind.

I asked if it was possible for me at all to develop an ability to OBE
and I got a fuzzy answer that yes, it was possible but it would hurt,
and would I accept the pain.

I answered yes, of course. An the next month, at all sessions, and also
during daytime I got a severe head ache.

The pain during sessions was at the back of my head, at the opposite side
of where you have the middle of your eye brows (third eye chakra?).

The pain was so severe, that I eventually asked if it could be reduced,
and it was worst during sessions. I have had much worse physical pain
at other times in life, but this head ache was so prolonged that I couldn't
stand it. The worst pain was located to an area at the back of my skull,
the size of a thumbprint. I also got pain in the sides of my neck, which
sometimes got worse if I had been in a cold room.

Today things are better as several months has passed, but so far still
no OBE. Perhaps I'm too unskilled at this..?

The pain at the back of my skull was at the surface of my head, and
to some part it felt like a pressure or painful muscle contractration.

If had had similar pressures at the crown of my head, slightly to the left
side of my skull, over an elongated stretch, but that pressure hasn't
really hurt, and has only been felt for shorter times during sessions
(10-20 minutes only).

Do you remember your emotions or thoughts a little better from the event?
You are probably the one who can say best what happened. It could be an
OBE directly into an astral area, for example Monroe's Focus 24, which is
part of the BSTs, as it was native Indians.

It could also be a test by some other entity.

It could be some kind of creation of your own mind or a flash back
from a "previous life" (kind of).

Did you feel like an observer or a participator?