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My current understanding is that physical and non-physical is all one thing. My experience is that it is the apparatus (e.g., body) that is different. Another way of pointing to this is: "the human is only a small part of who I am".

Overall, I see my physical self (a temporary strand) as an "extension" of my non-physical self (eternal, complex being) and my guidance (a component of the complex being). This works well for me. As William Buhlman often holds forth, the physical is only the thin, outer epidermis of total reality. This metaphor may be helpful here to those reading along.

With respect to science, our society is very dependent (e.g., because everyone has a biological brain) upon the materialist arguments, so I quietly disengage those that are grounded to the physical earth when debate arises (e.g., those of us that know from experience will understand). I have not found one that understands the non-locality of consciousness very well (e.g., at least well enough to conceptually understand).

One of my first experiences with non-physical occurred at the age of 15. In the experience a non-physical being revealed themselves to a couple of of us in the physical (e.g., we saw and experience the being with our physical eyes while the being hovered 4 to 8 feet off the ground). There were about 90 of us at this event. I know that I was in my body during the experience, because I had my arms around two friends on each side of me. I asked one of them if she saw the being, and she did not. However, another person two rows behind me did. I also know that I saw the being with my physical eyes because I covered them with my hands and the vision was out of view, and was there when I removed my hands (I was pretty smart for a 15 year old).

I am not a medium, but if you think about it, this is similar to how experienced mediums (for example Jamie Butler) see beyond the physical. The difference between Jamie and I? She is gifted with the skill, and I was given a singular experience. This defies not only the materialist argument, but also the beliefs of many OBE people and projectors who "think" that the physical and non-physical are two separate things. From experience, I can tell you that they are not. In my experience, the non-physical being (who was in a glowing light body formed like a physical body) wanted to be seen BUT only by a couple of us.

Finally, I decided to speak up here for this reason. I would not be too quick to draw up a bunch of laws or rules about the relationship between the physical and non-physical. The Universe has a lot of mystery built in purposely. However, maybe the discussion can help a few newer people here understand that to project, you really need to be using a different apparatus (e.g., the mind and not the biological brain). I also think that you present a decent question, so it deserves attention.

Yes ... since I was 15 years old ... and honestly these days, quite a bit more often ...

Try to view it mentally this way ... the physical and non-physical are "one thing" (they are not separate) ... when you go to sleep at night and begin seeing things, you are simply not seeing with your physical eyes anymore (but more with what some point to as your mind - NOT brain) and that is why are seeing things differently.

Maybe ... maybe not ...

Just log it into your journal and try again. Once you have a few out of body experiences, you will be able to come back to journal and most likely answer this question for yourself.

Vibrations do NOT usually come with dreams (I have never had that happen myself), but then a dream could provide false vibrations as a subconscious element. That makes a confirmation of your perceived experience difficult.

Projecting beyond the body does have some very obvious confirmations (e.g., like looking back and seeing a body like yours lying on your bed). I would look for something like this as proof of an OBE in the future.

It is interesting by itself. The originator is worth searching too as some of the work is available online... at a price and you guessed it, what I wanted to read has this obstruction so I didn't bother.

fwiw, I tracked him down using the address provided by the web site. I used to live and work in the Los Angeles area. I confirmed his name to the home address. The author is now a 91 year old man (if alive), but I do not think he is alive. While his writing style (quite nicely) pulled together many traditional and non-traditional physical perspectives of the energy body, overall I was not as attracted to it. I was curious about him, so I did some quick work to find out.

I don't hold a grudge against the non-physical; I tend to write fiery and provocative things to try and stretch understanding. I am not entirely convinced that there are in fact entities that influence our dreams - I am equally as sceptical on the topic of "guides" because both are outside my frame of experience.

For me feels equally possible that both guides and dream content are merely reflections of the subconscious. Additionally, not every dream I experience is constrains my free will. I have to wonder whether this is really a property of someone relaxing the noose on a particular night, or whether it is just another natural mechanic of dreams that large contrasts in awareness cause instability.

The level of lucidity and awareness in my dreams tends to peak around the full moon - further evidence against 3rd party influence.

I can speak up here from a different experience. I have met my guidance, when out of body (not just dreaming). Guidance is real. I no longer have any beliefs underlying this topic, because I asked the figure in my OBE to confirm herself and she did. It was rather spectacular actually, but too long a story for now.

There are also many very experienced travelers who have documented this for themselves. Probably the best writing that I have seen on this subject currently among the OBE community is Frank DeMarco. He has written several books where he has long discussions with his guidance (he calls them TGU or the guys upstairs). He is the former creator and editor of Hampton Road Publishing. I have started doing things with my guidance that he does, and it is helping quite a bit.

In "some" contrast of OBE's, non-lucid dreams (and even lucid dreams) are certainly much more subject to fictional figures created by the subconscious, HOWEVER that does not mean that our guidance cannot participate in our dreams. My guidance consistently participates in my dreams, but not all the time. And I mention this because they seem to know the territory of my subconscious better than I do.

Dear Subtle Traveler!

Thank you for your useful informations, so to speak I really like it and gives me some answers in certain details about the whole energy body construct.

Sure. Not a problem. Glad it is somehow helpful.

ST,  boundaries are protected and perhaps your guides know my value. Ask them why so I can do what is required. They should already know what is in question by the single word "why".
This too will make sense in time my friend.

OK, thanks.

I am currently using a writing process before bed to quietly communicate with them, and it is working quite well - confirmations arrive quickly - using within 24 hours. I will ask them this evening.

Relying on physical manifestations (e.g., like pictures) to describe non-physical manifestations is riddled with problems from the start. So I do like Xanth's general suggestion to you, but I wanted to expand on a couple of things to maybe help you further.

First, I work with my chakras and my energy regularly (e.g., daily). I often find this work not only helpful but necessary. And, I have never seen my chakras or pranic tube - even when out of body. The first time I saw outside my physical body, I was working my chakras before falling asleep and then later awoke in the non-physical with my projected body spinning wildly on the other side of my room. Chakras are real, but all the man-made instructions about them is not.

Second, we actually have several bodies for our use in exploring consciousness. You can read William Buhlman, Kurt Leland and others to learn more about this (if further interested). I will focus on just two bodies here: (1) the etheric body (e.g., chakras, energy meridians) and (2) the astral body (our aura extending up to 3 feet around us). Each is unique to the energy levels we are consciously focusing on (e.g., when projecting away from our physical body). For example, if we end up projecting into the RTZ (real time zone) we are generally using our energy body or chakras. If we end up visiting higher levels, we are probably using our astral body. There is certainly more needed detail on this complex topic (and other bodies or vehicles), but I am going to keep this simple. Just know that when the Monroe Institute trains people to go 'out of body' (e.g., the Gateway program), they focus first on the two bodies that I am mentioning.

Third, I mention this level of detail because your green picture appears to be a different body. It appears to be a representation of an astral body (not chakras). This could be why your perception is much different, when comparing the image to your chakra pictures. You can explore this further on your own, and find some better answers for yourself when focusing outside your physical body.

Fourth, I find that working with chakras is helpful, but when I focus upon them before projecting, I always end up near the RTZ. The RTZ is the mirror copy of our physical environment and the lowest non-physical energy level. However, you appear to be naturally focusing with a bit higher energy (your aura energy). So, I am going to suggest ignoring your physical chakra pictures for now - and instead focus on feelings, perceptual impressions, non-physical sensations, etc. The "imposed" chakra pictures are keeping you analyzing in the left hemisphere of your biological brain. This is not a good place to project (or even dream) from.

In closing, you are asking good questions (it's just that the premises you were taught to analyze them were goofy). Hopefully this helps you a bit in your exploration of your non-physical bodies (and does not hinder you further). I can imagine more (and deeper) non-physical experiences happening very quickly for you.

I see it's easy for new people to have that problem too. I used to. I would put so much into always "pushing forward", that I would actually lose touch and memory of all the little things that happened along the way. Those little things are important as well.

Yes. This is a common response in the OBE / Projection community - pushing forward as if the astral experience were more important than the physical experience.

My growing perception is that it is really all one thing (physical and non-physical). I think that this is why I have been attracted to all your shifting exercises and ideas.

Thanks for the tips and bread crumb trail.

I agree with Xanth's suggestion ... as available knowledge about OBE's and projection has grown significantly since Monroe's first two books.

I would add that the first half of Ultimate Journey is very left brain conceptual stuff, as Monroe tries to figure out what he is supposed to be doing (you may want to skip it, as I eventually did). The second half of the book is the adventure, exploration and travel. He even meets up with Miranon. His discoveries at the end of the book are compelling.

btw, you can find copies of Ultimate Journey for free across the Internet.

Thanks for clarifying, Szaxx.

Something is going on at my end of things. I will ask my guides a bit more about that (e.g., I had a sense that they gave me the name). Thanks also for respecting my boundaries.

I think this might be a great intended goal for all of us here to try. See if you can slow the process down. Whether that "slowing" being as  you enter your nightly Dream cycles or when you awaken. Try to find the trigger that helps it commence and morph and the trigger that kills the experience immediately.

We can do some great personal experimentation with this and then share our conclusions and results as they begin to reveal themselves.

Great! Count me in!

Thanks for the reminder about slowing down.

I wanted to chime in here ... last Thursday I spent the early morning (over 2 to 3 hours) rolling in and out of several dream-like experiences ... I was milking my focus 10 state while taking advantage of my conscious and intentional recognition of it. I am guessing that the hemi-synce I was listening to was also prolonging this state (I have a 90 minute recording on an old Ipod). I briefly woke up when I heard it end, and started the recording over and went back into the experience.

I use the word 'dream-like' as I could not confirm I was out of body (the landscape was too fuzzy), but I was definitely more lucid as I decided to transition by jumping out of a window and going somewhere else. There was an element of control that is not present in dreaming. I also spent time with a guide. Afterwards, I began to question if my "milking this experience" was a low level form of dream yoga that Lumaza has mentioned before.

I am definitely going be practicing this kind of experience again, and I will going back through this thread and reading the prior posts over the next week.

=== separate question for Szaxx ===

@Szaxx

After exiting the experience and resting in the focus 10 state, your first name came up. I wanted to ask if you somehow visited me last week or maybe were even a character in my experience.

I also had some 'energetic experiences' when meditating earlier in the summer, where I questioned the same thing about you but felt it was more like you were sending me energy (rather than visiting).

Sure, not a problem. I learned something also on your thread.

Btw, once you conceptualize the area, leave a period of time for changes and additions. That often helps me 'settle into' a new way of doing something, and I make it my own.

There is both success and failure (duality), but I can understand why he (Adyashanti) would emphasize failure to his students. He does have a lot of people looking up to him (as a model of spiritual success).

I would probably augment one statement that he makes (because it lacks clarity from my experience) - "because at the moment of failure, that's when everything opens". My experience is that the opening does not occur at the moment of failure, but at the realization and acknowledgment of failure (e.g., like it needs to sink in a little bit but not much). I would probably clarify it this way ...

At the realization of failure, a void point appears (nothingness). This nothingness is 'the point of creation' (the mother of all things), and from here I have the most opportunity to start creating (again). I also usually use an affirmation when I recognize this process ... like

"All is well. All is always well."

Thanks for the reminder.

What a great thread (and question) ... here is something that I regularly use ... I visualize this meditation structure and do my OBE preparation activities within this environment. I have been reading old Frank Kepple posts for the last month here and he emphasizes how often he uses visualization in his own preparation to project. As a result, I used it last night (for the first time in a while), and it resulted in several, varying NP experiences. I have shared it on other forums and most people really enjoy it or find benefit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4RkltlJZKM (4 minute YT video)

You draw this on a single piece of paper (I still have mine from last year), and add to later as needed. This visualization technique provides a structure (umbrella) in which all NP preparation and launching can congregate. If you bounce on a trampoline, then place the trampoline in this area. If you sit quietly by river stream to calm your body, then draw that into the territory. You get the idea ... it all goes in this dedicated but all encompassing launch area for meditation, your run down, contact with guidance, etc.

When I use this structure, I have noticed that I am able to stay in my technique much longer - without mental disruptions. And ... if I need to change my technique while preparing for projection, somehow it helps my mind, because I am not leaving my meditation-projection launch area (just changing a technique).

fwiw, just an idea ...

Hi Kuurt ...

I would add Jurgen Ziewe and his "Vistas of Infinity" to this discussion (only $10 on your Kindle). He describes a variety of experiences in this book. On Amazon, there are several reviews of the book including mine. Even William Buhlman provides a review of this book.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/review/R3MRG8HENK4PX5?ref_=glimp_1rv_cl

In one of his adventures he witnesses the ritual and energetic mating of an advanced alien species (it's wild and spectacular). They actually invite him to the event while he is travelling. So, Ziewe does go far. He is a very skilled traveler. He also meticulously documents his travels and verifies them for non-locality of consciousness first, before writing them down in his journal.

Why do you think I am asleep? I think I might know what your talking about but I am curious what answer you give.

With your 6 1/2 years spent here and your 730 posted comments (Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! Snort! Zzzzzzzz!) ... I will let you answer that question for yourself ...

At 727 post here I am well aware of what the top astral projection resources are. I just never recalled someone really categorizing the different types of astral projection techniques, thus my question. Other than that thanks for chiming in Subtle Traveler.

Well, actually I wasn't responding to you (and intentionally so) ... you appear to be asleep ... so I directly responded to and complimented Desert Rat. I intentionally expanded upon the poignancy of his comment to you.

However, since you have responded to me that you were well aware of top astral projection resources, let me simply ask this one clarification about your awareness ...

Were you aware that Buhlman's site ALREADY lists 'general types of astral projection techniques'? It already answers your thread's primary question (It is done ... it is finished.).

Well, apparently not.

I have seen and read many of your posts here (I have done some homework) ... in the end "categorizing things like techniques" doesn't matter much as it is a physical manifestation of the biological brain (specifically the left hemisphere) ... that is all it is ... it will not get you out of body ...

Selecting a single technique and practicing it for 30 to 60 days (as suggested by Buhlman) significantly increases your chances of getting out of body. I can confidently hold forth that it did for me.

"Wake up!"

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Desert Rat ... I would give you 10 stars or points for your comment if I could ... very poignant.

Plasma in the time you have spent on this post you could of been half way through a Monroe , or Buhlman book.  If you want different ideas , see what is posted on a.p. on you tube
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=astral+projection

Great observation and comment!

I would add that Buhlman also has tons of free stuff on his web site (www.astralinfo.org). I add this specifically, because that's how I individually had my first out of body experience (e.g., reading his web site and trying out a technique that he had presented). He also has a free newsletter (which I just happened to receive and read this morning).

Furthermore ... Jurgen Ziewe is another (multidimensionalman.com) ... Ryan Tasker (Xanth) is another with his Unlimited Boundaries forum ... Fred Aardema is another ... (and I could easily list more)

there is lots of free stuff out there if someone GENUINELY wants to learn how to project or OBE!

----------------

btw ... hello to all ... I have quietly been reading some old conversations here at AP by Frank Kepple, Fred Aardema and Bruce Moen for the last few weeks ... I decided to finally speak up and re-introduce myself.

@astralm

I made a brief observation about Xanth's comment. I did not write anything about "best", but I did write he was "succinct". I will put it another way - "His comment was brief and clear."

I would also observe that this is a public internet forum, so others do have the ability to comment and add to any discussion that begins (and that includes any discussion that you begin). The forum is structured for comments to be made when someone posts a new thread.

I have NOT been critical. Actually I have been very respectful of you in all my posts here at AP, and that includes lettings you figuring things out for yourself in this thread.

Nice work! 

I think that Xanth explained it very succinctly.

Did you also check the 2nd link I provided? I quickly found several responses to your topic on Bruce's site by doing a simple Google search.

Bruce Moen was briefly on the board here back in 2003 often responding to Frank's posts. You may find your answer in his five responses at AP.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/profiles/bruce_moen-u1154.html

Also, Bruce Moen has his own talk board (afterlife-knowledge.com). Here is a related response to your question on that forum.

http://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?action=print;num=1272573858

I have not read Bruce Moen yet myself and I am not familiar with his methods technically, but he is a very well respected leader in the OBE community and one of Robert Monroe's original travelers (e.g., I think he was a teenager at the time).

Good luck.