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"Then everything seemed to settle and I heard sounds I can't remember coming from my doorway and then my
breathing pattern changed dramatically which worried me and made my awareness to what was happening."

So..?

Where is the SP?

But where is the SP? I fond nothing of that sort in the text.

Time doesn't exist, sequence exists and time exist within sequence.

Time doesn't exist? Define "time".

I know it doesn't feel the same, but if you haven't been LDing you could
find some books or exercises to learn to LD, so you get some kind of
feeling of the non-physical. But OBE is not really feeling non-physical,
to me at least, it sort of feels like the physical, but just different.

If you can LD you're halfway in to OBEing.

Edit: Maybe some people have very great difficulties to OBE consciously.
I have for example, but have had success doing it from a random SP.

I lost control for a second and heard the familiar voice of the master.
You have failed this test.
Totally confused by the two views within myself and from a third
person perspective this sudden noise caused me to jump and thats a fail?
WTF?

Maybe you didn't act on the feeling of bloodthirst in the right way?
I would have stepped out of the game.

Did O Fox (Callaway ?) mention meeting anyone while OBE, like guides
or other people?

Did Fox manage to verify that his OBEs in fact were OBEs and not LDs,
like confirming some event in the usual physical world compared to
the RTZ?

Lightbeam, could you state a little more clearly when the dream turned
lucid, when it turned into an OBE, etc? I get the impression that there
are some kind of transitions happening here as you managed to
remember quite a lot of it?

The feelings and telepathic information I got from him was not that he was
there to protect me from anything, but rather to teach me, to reveal things
that not many humans know. And although he hasn't appeared again since
then, I have the feeling that he comes around from time to time.

Could it be that his main goal was to study you, like some kind of research?

Just seems a little implausible that a random alien wants to teach a random (?)
human anything. Do you think he has taught you anything?

In Tom's case, and what I'm currently working on, is what Tom calls
"parallel processing".  Frank called it a Focus Overlay.  Robert Bruce
calls it the Mind Split.

The Mind Split Effect is _not_ the same as bilocation.

Hi Pauli,
This a bit of the missing?

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/b_moens_exploring_3d_blackness_chat_transcript-t2905.0.html

No, that's not the one.

There once was a very good Moen thread among the Permanent Topics.
That thread is now gone. Disappeared.

A thought from a recent conversation about being able to do phasing and then
retrievals to order. I dont know if any publications exist on this two tierd
outlook , anyone?

My answer is that the most writings so far on retrievals have been done by
Bruce Moen in his 5 books. At some point there also was a permanent topic
on Moen at this site, but that seems to have been removed (?).

What's worth noting is that Moen seldom did his retrievals from any AP/OBE
state. He's always in the physical, but perceives his retrievals with his
non-physical senses. I think that Moen once wrote he in total had had
about 10 OBEs. My way differs a little though, as seen here.

Monroe has written about retrievals, and others like S Muldoon have mentioned
it in their books. One of the better descriptions on how-to has been presented
by Vicky Short in her book. V Short's book also contain other interesting info
as she seems to have further non-physical abilities and experiences, besides
astral projection and OBE. Moen praised her book on the aspect of how-to-do
retrievals.

I don't know if anyone has done a book on F Kepple-style phasing. My impression is
that Kepple's method is somewhat different from the 'phasing' mentioned in Monroe's
last book, even if Kepple himself won't (?) agree with me.

I have never done any conscious OBE and those few I've had have almost every one
been by chance from SP. The more meditation or similar sessions you do, the more
SP and LDs you will get. I haven't managed the phasing, and I haven't managed to
do the roll-out method and I haven't managed to turn an LD into an OBE (but the
reverse has unfortunately happened to me). So I guess OBEs can be done by
several different methods.

Just send them Love and Acceptance. Ask them if they have any friends
they want to meet and try to sense if they leave you.

If you haven't read Frank's entire PDF posts, all 1187 pages of it yet, I would start there.
There is great information to be found and rehashed over and over again. It's a great
place to find answers to your questions, learn new techniques and see his overall
viewpoint on Astral Projection.

I don't really agree, as I found so many question marks and incompletenesses,
in the Frank PDF that I finally felt that I had to write a review.

I also object to the idea that you will find answers or that much useful methods.
There is much text in the PDF, but in my opinion, a lot of it is very sketchy.

Perhaps Frank Kepple used a special method that worked for him, but I put doubt
in some of his claims. There are other problems too, for example, Kepple didn't
seem to put much thought to the concept Perceiver/Interpreter.

I'm sorry that I can't answer the TS's original questions, but I've not been able
to consciously AP/OBE by listening to Hemi-Sync.

Maybe the Gateway CDs should be used as exercises to go to altered states,
but in my opinion, very few people have reported actually doing OBE
during the CDs. The OBE/AP usually come in other sessions, without
Hemi-Sync! That's at least what I have noticed after having read a lot
of posts on various forums.

Some people have sites where they report their APs, like Leland or
in this blog post by Karen, they use very little Gateway CDs...

I have been getting all kinds of vibrations. That make my arm hair stand. Sometimes I feel them covering my whole body. Is this correct. Are these vibrations?

The feeling of vibrations should feel like vibrations, not like goose bump energy waves.

See for example Tisha's post on this matter:

"I liken the vibrational state to lying on top of an unbalanced washing machine during the spin cycle."


Vibrating doesn't mean that you'll have an easy time OBEing. I have
had lots of vibrations, but have never OBEd from them. All my OBEs
(very few) have been without vibrations, and mostly from SP.

...I notice everyone has a hard time figuring out where the RTZ is, in relation to the focus levels...

The Focus Levels are related to brain wave patterns of humans in the physical. When someone
goes OBE (to the RTZ) there have been some tests which indicates that the brain wave
patterns are atypical, not fitting any regular dream state. Also different OBE persons
show different brain wave patterns while in OBE, so it may not be possible to talk about
_one_ Focus Level for someone in OBE in the RTZ. Further there are indications that
the _same_ OBE person may have _different_ brain wave patterns on different OBEs,
which further makes it difficult to talk about a certain Focus Level. Each Focus Level
is defined by a specific brain wave patterns quite similar for every human, even if
you can go deeper or shallower within each Focus. But OBEs don't follow similar
brain wave patterns. Still, you can get an OBE while listening to Hemi-sync in a
random chosen Focus Level of your choice.

This brings me onto 3 questions, that I need your thoughts on:

1. Retrievals happen during normal dreams. All my dream logs point strongly in that direction. It points that if people simply log in their dreams and start to get to know their dreams soon enough they will begin to understand which ones could be retrieval dreams. What are your thoughts on this?

2. This brings us onto 2nd point. What other type of 'learning experiences' do we have out there? We know we have one type which we call 'Retrievals' and the aim of that type is to help another soul 'cross over', but what other types exist? Looking at my dream logs there are certainly different themes going on and repeating themselves over and over, with just different scenery and different 'players' in them, but the themes stay the same. I don't know what the themes are pointing towards. Any ideas what else we do in the greater reality?

3. On some phase trips somehow we know how to do things that nobody taught us or that we did not read about in the physical reality (eg: the stuff I do in some of my trips I understand nobody taught me, I simply know 'how' to do it when the moment comes (eg: I fly into people, I use other tricks to keep scenery from fluctuating or to return into previous scene and so on). On other phase trips we feel like we are just like in the physical reality (i.e. we seem to know only what we know and not more of it, this is the majority of my trips I'd say). Has anyone experienced this? What exactly is going on? Can we tap into the 'higher' knowledge and with what tricks?

According to Moen and others, the answer to question 1:

1. Yes. In fact Moen is one of the persons preferring to do retrievals in regular dreams.


For your other questions, I don't know any good answers:

2. Express and experience PUL is one thing, but sometimes I get the impression that
such a thing can best be learnt in the physical. Also, according to Monroe, it is most
valuable that we learn physical movement, move our arms, legs etc, because that
ability can later be used in the non-physical. According to Leland/Moen we can
learn to better manipulate and create stuff in the non-physical. But I'm not
sure these are the right answers.


3. This is one delicate subject. I think it is the violation of free will. Monroe mentions
that he went through "lessons" over and over again, until he managed to do the
lesson in a correct way. Each time he had completely forgotten his last time (for
example Far Journeys, pages 103 - 106). The lessons were a way of
knowing if he had developed, I think he guessed. Our actions in retrievals are
sometimes not something we can direct, but is controlled by someone else, in
Monroe speak, our I-There (observed in Monroe's second book, but didn't get
a name until his third and last book).

Great post!

Keep it coming!

If its the latter, Tom speaks about it in his videos a lot, and I'm still going through his book, but he does not say how it is done.

Could you compile some of those videos where Campbell explains how he does it.
I would like to know how close it is to Moen's "imagination method".

If possible, state the exact part of each video clip as in for example; "07:30 - 12:15".

I am quite familiar with the focus levels of 10-20; . . .

. . .his focus 1 is physical reality and the real time zone (C1 - F20?), his focus 2 is an individual's subconscious (Focus 21 & 22?)...

I think trimming your wall of text may make it more readable.

Also I think Focus 21 was Kepple's F Z oC, not (?) F 2 oC. My points
on Kepple's claims can partly be read here. Personally I think
the "F oC"-concept was a poor job done by Kepple.

To my knowledge the GateWay Wave CDs are about
Locale I (C 1, F 3, F 10, F 12 and possibly F 15 (?))
and about one Focus Level in Locale II (F 21).

You talk about F 20, what Focus is that?

In my opinion it's about awareness. If you have crisp clear awareness, then it's an OBE.
It should feel like your aware like in real awake life. If not, it may be an LD or something
in between.

Of course your awareness may drop off and you can then enter a state of LD or similar
at a later time.

But if you start off with full clear awareness, whatever state you later end in, I would
call the start of it for an OBE.

In my opinion, there is a big difference between becoming lucid in a dream compared
to having a fully aware OBE.

Edit: corrected typo.

Stook, you have a very disturbing (moving) avatar. That could cause anyone to riot.

I liked this one, got my energies moving:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKB8RfCcvAA&feature=related

Perhaps you only see an image of the physical, as some thinks the RTZ
is more a kind of radiation than the real appearance of the physical.

According to Buhlman in youtube interviews, 5 minutes in the physical can be
an astral lifetime, several "years" in the astral.

It's on the mental plane (he refers to the theosophic system of astral/mental planes). Here you can experience fantasy worlds set up by the collective of humanity, this includes tv shows, theater pieces, musical pieces, fantasy or all kinds of novels, movies, maybe also the newest roleplaying computer games, etc.

It could as well be down in F 23.

At the Moen forum, retrievers have reported various things, for example
finding dead authors in the worlds of their books with funny talking
rabbits and badgers.

The retriever took on the appearance of a talking animal and retrieved
the deceased author. If his world still exists or if the author set up a
similar but brighter fantasy world in F 27, I don't know.