Messages

G,day Athanasy

Welcome matee,you have certainly packed your life with experiences & learnt many a lesson by the sounds of things.There is some similar cases to yours in this forum somewhere,you might be able to glean some more info off those posts.

Good luck & good journeys

Mobius

I must go & have a look at echoes,as most of my floyd on cd was stolen.Their earlier stuff was so trippy,but apparently they didn't do acid.On the album "pink floyd the works" you would think otherwise after hearing that song "several small animals,grooving together with picks in a cave".They are just an epic band in every way.Dogs,yes that was a good song.They are a band that can just jam well together.

Good journeys

Mobius

Wow,you are a stock trader by proffesion Atlas,but somehow you don't see how it can be manipulated by the guys at the top.Just because they don't get their hands dirty doesn't mean they are somehow respectable civilised people.Not sure if you were watching the stocks around the time of sept 11,but surely you must remember that huge amounts of stocks were sold in the airline companies before they crashed,hmmm.Then there was billion dollar trades in options in Lockheed Martin & other US military stocks,all before sept 11.

At the time of the gulf war,exactly the same thing & guess who got the contracts to clean up the mess afterwards & rebuild? companies owned by the same ones who have the majority of shares in the defence stocks.
Nice little money maker that one eh? I trade myself once a week or so & I'm not a stock broker,but I do check all the way back into who the companies majority shareholders & what other interests they have,surely you can't just ignore the majority US push for total control of oil around the world & drugs too.

Every time you post you display your ignorance,I just cannot believe what I am reading,you seem to be fairly well educated Atlas & write well,but I get the feeling you just dismiss anything said about America & think that somehow I feel you are personally resposible for it all.We will get nowhere if you wont look at reality,choosing "ignorance is bliss" because you are in America.I know you wont bother to check back on my feelings for America so I will summarize here, I love America & have many friends over there.You are just being patriotic & will twist anything I say to make it sound like an attack on America & you.

I just can't believe that statement,"Every other system consists of one group stealing or extorting from each other" Now I know what I am dealing with here,you don't think that happens in America or any other Capatilist country?Ok,I will not burst your bubble.

Heres some more food for thought for skeptics.

http://www.victorzammit.com/book/chapter26.html

http://www.victorzammit.com/skeptics/index.html

Good journeys

Mobius

G,day Omega sphere

While this link I am posting is titled "What happens when we die" & has been posted in here before,I thought you might want to take a look,as OBE's are the travels we have in that place while we are alive,basically.

http://www.victorzammit.com/book/chapter27.html

Good journeys mate

Mobius

Ok Atlas

I can see that I am wasting energy on you,as even if you are given examples,you will either misquote them,take them out of context or make up something,just to ignore what is being said.We should not get into political philosophy like you said,but it seems you havn't gone back into any of the previous threads,as you would have found,that I don't believe in communism or any ism,especially capatilism.I wont go down the path of telling you how the stock market works,as I can sense you are a fairly defensive & patriotic sort & will choose to ignore what is going on around you.I have the same opinion of my own governments politicians & the system we are part of here
in Australia.

You love money you say? It is the symbol of exchange & ideas,with the absence of physical force? Where did you get that from,a US government text book? Or inside the set of the truman show part 2? Once again,you choose to be ignorant.

We have also discussed many times in this & other forums here about the various terminologies used in Monroes,Bruce's, & others books & came to the conclusion that they were all talking about much the same thing,but had their own terms which made sense to them like Focus levels,Projectable doubles,the training ground as used by Frank,higher & lower astral realms etc.You have to look past the terminology & take what you can out of them,give the exercises all new names if you have to,but the main thing is to practice the exercises or techniques & not get bogged down by the terminology.

If you ask me Bruce is the first one to just simply say energy or NEW,instead of constant references to loosh,kundalini,prana etc he just says storage centres for energy  & energy paths etc.,how simple,the OBE book with contemporary terms & meanings.Most of it seems to be an elaboration on eastern concepts & picks the best of everything.I wish I knew nothing about OBE's & read that book first,as it would make so much more sense to a novice who has never heard any other terms.

http://www.crystalinks.com/kundalini.html

Atlas you pulled a quote from me & misquoted it,you even put it above your own writing.Like I said "The reason you don't abandon it,is beacause you KNOW there is something to it" not "because you KNOW it's true".I think it is obvious you don't think it's true,which leaves 2 possibilities.
1) Like I said you KNOW there is something to it,maybe you have had some experience with metaphysical concepts personally,but not yet OBE's,so you hope someone will somehow give it to you.
or
2)You are an employee of the amazing randi or some other debunker or science fraternity that has very strict beliefs & agenda's to push.

Good journeys

Mobius

Hey

I,ve heard many explanations on why we sleep,dream & have OBE's,including one a few days ago that said "Once we fall asleep,every 90 mins an electrical discharge is sent through the brain,these electrical impulses are basically messages from all around our body,sending in their gathered details & recordings of the day,these are displayed visually in our brains in the form of dreams,which are displayed in a metaphorical sense."

Then there is Freuds theories that it is all to do with sex,that one I find hard to swallow.Lucid dreams & OBE's are different I believe,sure you can have a dream where you can see your body,but what about hearing things people say in another room,or seeing what they are doing,numerous NDE cases in hospitals have reported seeing & hearing what the doctors were talking about.Clairvoyance? Clairaudience? OBE? whats the answer?

Some very talented remote viewers like Joe McMoneagle,not only went to TMI regularly,but married a monroe.He often stated in interviews that sometimes he left his body for retrievals of info & psychic ability was a definate advantage.Every single one of them despite all their success CANNOT see numbers very well,sure shapes & scenery,but numbers were deemed by all an extremely hard target,2 or 3 numbers yes but 5 or 6 no.I suspect most skeptics have read this also & rely on that one sticking point for proof.The thing is who cares what they think,you guys obviously think there is something to it otherwise you wouldn't be in here.Why not today decide that the whole thing is a lie & a hoax (OBE's) & never concede the idea again in your life.Get on with things in the physical & even though you believe that microwaves cook your food,have you seen them exactly? they mustn't exist if you can't see them,you can't see the energy's inside our bodies either,so that can't be a possibilty.

The reason you don't abandon it,is because you KNOW there is something to it.As ancient an art it is,it's still only just come onto the public market 5 to 10 years ago.So you can forget about it for now & then watch as others pass you by,simply becaused they tried.

Good journeys guys

Mobius

Hi guys

I think Pe makes a good point about materialism.Most of the human inhabitants of this planet have to become part of the monetary system in one way or another & we seem to be reaching a saturation point very soon.Noticed the rediculously high wages of company CEO's in proportion to the average wage earner?Insurance pay outs in the millions for petty things,banks that have billion to trillion dollar turn overs everyyear?Third world countries that have the same bank balances as a single person walking the streets in a first world country.Because they are dumb? no,because of their religion or colour or race? no, because the ones who have the money,the stuff that virtually ensures success,don't want to change that,they want the money to stay in power utilities,defence utilities, & manipulate where the attention of the majority of the planet will be focused on,while they eat your pants off your arse/butt & don't even turn in their sleep at night in worry.Most people know that money will help a great deal in an individuals success & that of their offspring.Natural intelligence is another,but hard in a third world country to succeed.The other advantage a parent can give a child is to teach them from birth,everything,music, speaking,reading,languages.

The ethical issues behind genetically altering your child to have a high IQ are way behind the scientific realities that are taking place right now,money is a big issue here for all,will only the exceedingly rich be able to have babies with no genetic defects & high IQ? while the poor debate the ethics & morals,a generation later we will be living in the movie GATTACA.The US government has allready declassified the RV program files & admitted there is something to this idea that every individual has some psychic ability & can be taught.Thus the flood of people into the new age & metaphysical market,the next generation will have psychic abilities as a pre-requisite on job applications.Like Frank said,10 to 15 years ago you just couldn't talk about this stuff,now there are people coming out of the wood work.

The basic dilemma we are faced with here is MONEY,while it exists,there will always be trouble & manipulation.I guess the rebuttal from the top 10 richest on our planet would be ;sure you can't take any possessions with you when you die,but you can make sure your children will be exceedingly wealthy too,at the expense of millions.We all know intrinsically that money is wrong,it stifles life.

Atlas you didn't get back to me on what OBE books,techniques or meditations you have tried in your attempts to have OBE's & whether you have a journal & hemi sync? I have taught people guitar & karate in the past & the majority buy a guitar or learn a technique or two & then say "why can't I play as good as you?" "Iv'e bought a guitar or uniform why can't I kick arse/butt?" when no effort whatsoever has been put into actually practicing it & not talking about it.Please tell me Atlas as it would be a shame to hear you have no books,no journal,don't meditate,stretch,try NEW, or some other technique? or you work for the government in your spare time.

Good journeys matee's

Mobius

Hey guys

Yes I must say I've got a soft spot for pink floyd,I've got most of the collection except for "nice pair" & stopped collecting them at "momentary lapse of reason",my favourites were" the wall" "the final cut" "animals" "obscured by clouds",what is on the latest floyd releases? I havn't checked for a while .But yes they seem to get you in a very relaxed mood,love em.

I like Metallica too but mainly the earlier stuff from "kill em all" to "master of puppets",I still like the other stuff but they went on a tangent after cliff died.I learnt how to play most of their songs on guitar,the neighbours love it!

Hey Ralphm,they have a place here in Australia that is still doing group drumming & getting stoned,it's called Nimbin & they do it daily,caught in a time warp down there.hehe

Good journeys

Mobius

Hey Hey

It's good to see other peoples experiences when first taking the big plunge into the gateway cd's/tapes & your post Frank made me go through the lot again & I had one of the best OBE's last night,because of it.Just having it on the brain so much & then going through the cd's & tapes & read a bit of Astral Dynamics.I was at a castle surrounded by water on three sides & had a perculiar contstruction on top of one of it's towers.I talked briefly with some people,which gave me a brilliant idea for an essay I have to do on genetics & insurance.Very cool & most grateful,thanks to them & thanks  Frank for posting it & inspiring me into action.

BTW if you choose to go down this path of getting the gateway cd's,do just that,get the cd's,don't make the same mistake I made & get the tapes.The tapes are allright,but for a bit more money,you get a superior recording,no tape hissing,no walkman slamming off on you at the end of the tape & destroying your state of mind,no constant changing tape sides from A to B & no risk of the tape getting chewed up! Its Ok if you are just getting one of their single tapes such as transcendance as they are cheap anyway,but the gateway is probably the most you have ever spent on anything on tape or cd,so get the cd. I am in the process of replacing them all on cd & will sell the others when I've got the set of cd's,for this commitment it involved me having to get a discman which only cost me $50,but at the end of that spending spree do I think it was worth it? #*%# yeah!

Manfred I think Daniel got that Transcendance cd as well,so you will both have to tell us of your journey's,sounds cool.What is Going home like for you? is it worth getting ?

One other thing,I tried using Robert Bruces NEW while listening to Hemi Sync & whoah! I never realized the potential for this NEW application & after buiding my resonant energy balloon on the first CD I used NEW.I would love to have some tests done to measure what is happening,as it feels incredible.

Good journeys all

Mobius

G,day X

I've got " life long learner" & had OBE,s with them,also they turned me into a sponge for information,hehe.Some mates have "Opening the heart" & "Going home" & said they have had OBE success with tose ones too.I havn't tried "lucid dreaming" you will have to tell us of your experience,when you get them.

Thanks for the other link mate,cool

Good journeys all

Mobius

G,day guys

We should probably get all these monroe posts together for seekers of this subject,I put this on the other one too.

http://www.altered-states.co.nz/hemi2/page15.htm

This is a pretty comprehensive guide on the gateway stuff.

Good journeys

Mobius

Hi Nik

I'm not too sure about the other brands of meditation/trance/subliminal message music,or their authors & I've only used Hemi-sync products.

The term hemi-sync is actually a trademark that is unique to the monroe institute (TMI) & that have that name copyrighted I'm sure.This is a special blend of binaural beats,with narration & sounds over the top.These sorts of tapes have been around for years & everyone says that theirs works of course.There is the problem that cainam mentioned,that it might not work for you.I have heard this is the case for hemi-sync as well & some people have reported no effect,fortunately that wasn't the case for me.

TMI was the only one that scientifically proved something was happening & the 2 hemispheres of the brain were in syncronisation,thus hemi-sync.Also the only one that attracted government & military personel to it's doors.I have heard & been told that OBE's are only acheivable on the gateway series from TMI,but I have had results with most of their tapes,so I guess everyones different.I know it is expensive the TMI gateway series,but you could try a cheapie tape,probably $15 to $20 worth or just go the first wave of the gateway series,theres 7 all up,here in Australia it costs heaps,but there in the US,each wave on CD is only $99 & you get 3 Cd's in each wave.Some exercises require you to open your eyes,move around etc. & you wont be sleeping I'm sure.

I have heard from some friends that they have had some success with Synthesis cd,s but havn't tried them myself.

http://www.synthesys.ws/

TMI
http://www.monroeinstitute.org/

http://www.altered-states.co.nz/hemi2/page15.htm

Create your own subliminal tapes

http://www.altered-states.co.nz/hemi/subencoder.htm

Good journeys all

Mobius

Hi Adrian

I can see there has been some work done on the site as the weeks go by & it's getting faster for me,but my dinosaur2000 just can't get enoof power cap'n.Won't be long before I upgrade,but doesn't it suck how they keep bringing out new models each year & upgrades,when secretly they allready have the FLASHO 5000, a PC with a 1000 giga/megahertz processor,10000 gig hard drive & no modem,just a sattelite sender & receiver inbuilt,the size of a piece of toe jam.

yes I still believe it is an awesome site,just my computer isn't,hehe.Thanks for the ongoing efforts anyway Adrian,good job.

Good journeys

Mobius

G,day Atlas

Sure the quote of mine you picked out is a generalisation & oversimplified,but you yourself said"I may be talking to Jesus everyday,but he may not want to read your number".That's a convenient excuse they can use as a crutch isn't it? You talk to Jesus everday,really? what does he say?why wont he tell me the number? can't he do it? or is he being a snob? when you talk to him,does he answer you back?What's his birthday?.

This wouldn't work so well for the OBE,er,could you imagine "Oh,sorry I couldn't  tap into the Astral today,but that doesn't mean I can't do it"
"Ahaaa!" says the science skeptic hosting the show",hocus pocus folks,all talk & no proof" as the crowd forcibly laughs to feel part of the scene & not to stand out as a loony if they speak up.

This stuff on quantum physics IS really interesting isn't it? I think it's just a pity that not enough scientists read up on the metaphysical sides of things & utilise some of their possibilties.So many scientists are trapped in their own belief systems & are almost the reciprocal of religion & the dedicated theologian.Never ever considering another point of view or concept,because their beliefs have told them that there is no point,as whatever they are involved in is the only possibility.I would have loved to have a video camera back in the days when the majority of scientists said that the sun orbited the earth & not the other way around & the look on the faces of the scientists who said the earth was flat & you would sail off the end & die.What would have been going through their minds when their belief bubble was burst.So many scientists ARE really blown away by the thought that thought affects things,but why should they be?go with the flow I say,don't resist,just accept it & work with it's possibilities.

I hope to be among a different breed of scientist myself as I have allready had OBE's for many years & have been involved with metaphsical concepts for years now.I,ve really only just begun but I,m at uni  studying science & have plenty of years up my sleeve,so we'll see what the future holds.

Atlas the day you have OBE's you are going to have an avalanche of memories that will creep back to remind you of where you've been.You say you have been trying that long Atlas? I,m curious & want to help,do you have a journal? I gather you have SOME OBE books,Bruces & Monroes? have you tried any hemi-sync stuff? or sound & light machines?If you are this determined Atlas,you will get there I feel.

Good journeys all

Mobius

Hi Manfred

Yes that is the message that most religions convey,one of love,that is what they would like people to perceive.So many are the epitome of a good person,but the few who have financial control manipulate the information.Why not just be good outright? & do the right thing, always,when other people are involved,that comes naturally to us all & children are born with it & it is only when they are taught,these things that it becomes part of their nature.I bet you could walk into any kindergarten in the world & gather a classroom of kids to come up with a set of ten commandments we all should live by & they would probably tell us that 1) you shouldn't kill people or kill anything you don't need to. 2) you should probably treat other people the way you would like them to treat you & many other things that are just intrinsic to us anyway.

I don't discourage anyone from being in any religion or condemn them for doing so,we all have our own opinions, beliefs & relative freedom of choice,the only thing I suggest is thoroughly read their religious texts,find out about their references they have used in their texts,cross check them,practice it if need be, don't just accept it on face value.

Here is another link with some excellent articles on OBE's, Robert Bruce is in there as well.Also check out the library on this site,very cool & check out their link page,absolutely massive & very comprehensive.

http://www.newage.com.au

http://www.newage.com.au/library.pages/oobe.html

http://www.newage.com.au/library.html

Good journeys all

Mobius

G,day all

Lost spawn,not sure if you have read through all the posts on this subject,but we have allready stated your No.3 & No.4 questions & is the crux of what we are arguing here.The idea of the institute by RB & proving OBE's on his own terms is exactly what the skeptics DON'T want.

The skeptics,science & religous organisations (that don't allready incorporate this concept of non-physical bodies) are quite aware of the drop in numbers of people joining up,the money draining away from where they want it to be & into books like Astral Dynamics or TMI. In a way it benefits people dealing in metaphysics to be as abstract as a religion,that way they can't rush in with the spooks & claim where's the proof? As most religions operating today are based on theory & practical proof cannot be demonstrated.In respect to Christianity,Buddhism,Mohhamed,Allah,.....where's the proof? I don't see any Gods,look I'll even afford you perfect lab conditions or whatever you require to prove you have some connection with God,Jesus,Buddha,Allah or Vishnu.
If you don't guess the number I have in the box,not only don,t you not win $1 Million,but it will PROVE you don't have a connection with these deities & your religion or beliefs is a lie.

Check out this link & more importantly the bit near the bottom where it talks about physicists working on atoms & particles found that their own thoughts or focus affected the experiment.

http://www.davedavies.com/splanet/realms.htm

Good journey's

Mobius

Hey Atlas

Well I,m not sure what these scientists are willing to accept as far as conditions go,but going by a recent debunking fest held here in Australia,well last year,this famous skeptic (I forget his name)from the USA had a $1 million reward for these people who claimed to have healing abilities.After these people were interviewed countless times on current affairs programs before hand & people testified to being healed from these people.

Regardless of all this & requests for conditions which suited the practicioners,they were denied & were told that it was the skeptics money up for grabs here & they require what they call a controlled environment in which to scientifically evaluate the process effectively.This equated into these people being put up on stage with 1 believing subject & 2 skeptical subjects,on stage,with lights,camera's & live audience.

After the practicioners were given a couple of minutes to work on each subject,they were asked did they feel any different & had their pain or discomfort eased.Of course 1 said yes & 2 said no & the visiting skeptic announced to everyone that "Statistically this proves that there is no correlation & the odds of actually being healed is blah,blah,blah"  Afterwards the healers were ridiculed & their previous interviews were replayed in a condescending manner.

As far as I know the scientists still havn't taken up the offer to prove that it DOESNT happen (OBE,s) a $1 million reward as well,why don't they enter into the debate on a level playing field?

The same people who have shares in these massive science based companies also have major share ownership of the media & ultimately nearly everything you see or read.Why do people need a scientist to say it's true?why don't people put some time & effort into it's validity for themselves?

Good journeys

Mobius

G,day all

Good to see some people thinking for themselves & not being told what to think.We covered this topic somewhere else in here,can't find it now.

The thing I don't understand,if you are a member of one of these religions,& you choose not to find out about their information sources & ideals,then why not stick by all the rules & doctrines they desire you to live by.So many people say "Oh I'm a Buddhist,or Christian" & think that somehow that pigeon holes them into the good people group.When they don't stand by or live by any rules of their various religions.Why? because we all have inbuilt into us what is intrinsically right & wrong,everyone KNOWS what is the right thing to do,but choose not to because of selfish reasons or thinking there is a safety net waiting for them. "Sorry father I just stole my neighbors T.V & had sex with his wife,I couldn't help it,I just like everything he owns"..............................."Thats allright my son,say 10 Hail mary's & 10 Our Fathers & be on your way"

It is all falling apart on them anyway & now people can educate themselves quicker,it only takes a couple of days now "if you choose" to find out that you are perpetuating a lie.Even the cardinals at the Vatican know it,people are speaking up & starting to say things like "Well,I really love my God,but Mum/Mom,why does the local priest make me touch him there"   "WHAT!"

Good journeys all,lucky you all took the same pill off Morpheus,hehe

Mobius

Okie Doke.

All the best on your journeys

Mobius

Mj 12,thanks mate,I had the anglefire link,but the zammit link I didn't,very cool & good to see something in print that was reinforcing what we were saying.
Big money is involved here & one of the unfortunate side effects of science is,if you want to get a grant or apply for funds,you must prove why the money should go to you & not someone else.So even though science appears to be all under one big brotherhood umbrella,that's not the case,most fields of research or methods practiced,will be visciously opposed to each other.

I don't know about Robert's abilities except for what is written in his book & in here,but for me,the relative ease that I can fall into an OBE is largely dependent on my home,it's feel,my bed,my lounge & conditions.I have had some success with OBE's away from home & different surroundings,but nowhere near the ease I have at home.So imagine going to one of these staged money giveaway, science/religion verses the astral & trying to induce an OBE with all these lights & camera's rolling & T.V set  which is stacked highly against the astral traveller.So that naturally the subject will fail & they can announce to everyone "Well that proves it folks,we can see that statistically & scientifically,there is no basis to this OBE concept whatsoever,so all the sponsors & financial institutions have nothing to worry about,keep the money rollin. OK now that we have Mr Bruces head,we can tell all the people he has helped,that it was all in their heads,who's next?".

Good journeys all

Mobius

Hey Fenris

I pinched the name Mobius from a Psi/vampire/horror type book/series called "The Necroscope" by Brian Lumley.There is about 8 or 9 books in the series & an awesome story.I know it sounds a bit corny,but the main character in the series Harry Keogh has this ability of clairaudience with dead people (hears them in their graves) after talking to some dead people,he found out there was this old famous mathematician that could teach him some tricks, called Mobius.

He ended up learning this technique off Mobius where he could travel anywhere & not only anytime,but any time period using this thing called the Mobius continuum.It has a symbol (the mobius continuum) of the figure 8.Which is basically a loop or circle  turned over on itself to form an 8.

Good journeys mate

Mobius

G,day Fenris

I,m studying science & ethics at QUT,carseldeine campus mainly as it aggravates me less than Gardens point & kelvin grove.I was a plumber before this & so this is a new life direction for me,or another skill for the moment.I hope to get into the area of Genetics or similar,but will just change my subjects around as needed to fit into any particular area that I want to focus on.I've got plenty of time to kill,so I'll just sit back & accumulate prerequesites for the time being.

My stepfather was an ambulance officer turn paramedic & now works for careflight in N.S.W. I spent from 7 years old to 16 living on top of ambulance stations or ambulance houses around Sydney & the blue mountains.Very interesting experiences that's for sure!

Good journeys everyone & do what my stepfathers job name says
"Take Care on your Flight" "Careflight"

Mobius

G,day junkie & welcome from a fellow member.

Maybe,go back to the beginning part of that awarness hands bit on pg 119 & 120 where he describes that he had to come up with a method for a blind person to use,as they could not visualize or imagine seeing hands.Practice those exercises he describes repeatedly until you get the sensation that all your focus is on that point for the moment,remembering it's a feeling that you first "trace" over your skin to familiarize your brain with the concept,so that it leaves a memory or imprint for you to work with.Hope I could help??

Good journeys

Mobius

G,day Daniel

Yes I know what you mean.I usually go through the various lists I'm on based on how quick I can get into it.When I first joined it was the fastest loading site that I was participating in,so I posted here first & then moved around the other ones.Unfortunately I've got an old computer & it doesn't like the new site at all,so I now come in here last stop on my rounds & sometimes I'm too stuffed by the time I get to it,only to wait for about 30secs for each page change,also I,m at uni which makes me fairly time poor.

Good journeys

Mobius

Wow sounds like Stuart really has lost it.To begin with,having copper wires around a bed (not an electric blanket)is a very irresponsible thing to say & some people can get seriously hurt,by taking faith in those words & U.V lights,why would you want them shining on you?Another potential for disaster.

He must have been tripping when he wrote that,surely.Didn,'t look like it was edited properly & things seemed to jump all around the place,lots of thoughts that would have made better sense arranged differently,lots of speculation & low on the facts.

Maybe one day when OBE,ing is taken more seriously,there can be an international standard or code of terminology,so we all know exactly what part of the astral they are accessing or talking about.When he talks about Etheric & Astral,makes me wonder what HE thinks the definition of them are.

I've only seen an alien type being once that looked like a grey/gray, but this was while OBE,ing & it's skin was a sandy colour.Hope we get to the bottom of it all soon.

Good journeys

Mobius