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Kundalini can do this but like we all know it works differently for different people so it cannot be a sure bet. Maybe for you activation of kundalini may open your nonphysical perception when it's at your naval or sacral chakra. This didn't happen for me. I'm sure it definitely allows access to a number of psychic abilities once it reaches the third eye because once activated the kundalini's main task is purification, so once it gets to the third eye it will clear the blockages and open up the perception of your mind's eye. However, I don't think this would be the best way of trying to perceive within. The best way IMO is to just use the phasing model that is described in glorious detail on this beautiful website. Whether my kundalini is activated or not, phasing is the same for me as it is for everyone else. Doesn't happen any quicker or any easier. If there is a kundalini shortcut to the out of body experience I don't know what it is. I'm not really concerned either because phasing is the best option to me. It's practical and it's universal.

By Focus 2 I mean Focus 2 of Frank Kepple's Phasing Model. The experiences/memories of your "Total Self"/"I-There" can be accessed in the Akashic Records of Monroe's Focus 27. This would be Frank Kepple's FoC 3. Because you are a part of your Total Self you can access your memories there as well. However, your personal memories are stored in and can be accessed in FoC 2 of Frank Kepple's Phasing Model where you can relive the experience.

If I were you once out of body in the Astral I would ask for a Helper to guide me to Focus 27. Basically, when you're out of body "in a different world" ask for a Helper to guide you to Focus 27. I don't know if a Helper can help you when you are in your room, so find a way to become conscious of a different world and then try it. I'm sure you're in the Astral when you find yourself in a different world.

[NOT]

@ MaryBell

Is it possible to control it? I don't know. Maybe if you had the ability to manipulate the matter and energy of the universe you would be able to control kundalini? I know my conscious awareness affects it to a certain extent... But I don't try to control it. I try to cooperate with it and let it do its thing. It's like it has a mind of its own. Once activated and has risen through a few chakras, you don't have to do anything for it to move about through those chakras, it just does it itself.

Personally, I don't think it will help you be more open to receive and remember information. At least not until it is permanently beyond the third chakra. If activating your kundalini will make you believe that you can now be more open to receive and remember information then that's a different story. But anything you can do with an activated kundalini, you can do without activating your kundalini. So why not find more practical ways to receive and remember information? For instance, why not explore Frank Kepple's FoC2. That is where each individual stores all their memories and information they receive. By establishing a more direct and conscious connection/communication with FoC2 you may be able to remember things better/quicker/easier.

Kundalini doesn't give you magical powers. At least not until it permanently moves beyond the heart chakra we may be able to do things that may seem magical. And it is my theory that in order to permanently move kundalini up to and beyond the heart chakra you must greatly purify your physical, emotional, and mental bodies/energies.

I look at kundalini as an impersonal, technical, purification process. It helps uncover physical, physiological, and psychological imbalances within your personality and energy system, and it is up to you to notice them and resolve them. All the while it continues to purify your physical body, etheric body and energy field as much as possible.

Kundalini is a natural part of life and if we as human beings were born at, and remained at, our most pristine, pure, and optimum state we would all be born and live with fully activated kundalini constantly flowing up through the crown chakra. I can explain more about it but I think I'd be heading over into philosophy and I'm only on this website to talk about practical things dealing with the out of body/projection/phasing experience. I just commented on this thread because I have an intimate and personal relationship with kundalini so I can share my experiences. But kundalini is life energy and I'm not going to sit here and try to explain what life is and how we receive it's energy lol

However, I will say that according to my research activating kundalini is NOT a prerequisite for enlightenment or ascension. By going within, walking your spiritual path, and undertaking the enlightenment process, your kundalini will naturally activate and flow in a healthy, well balanced manner. Remember, once activated it cannot be deactivated until you either physically die or permanently raise the kundalini through the crown chakra and around the body at which point it will flow uninhibited and you will no longer feel it throughout your body even though it is still there activated. It is my belief that in order to permanently raise the kundalini through the crown chakra you must be consciously aware on, and can operate in, all dimensions of this universe.

@its_all_bad

Kundalini is a natural part of life. As I said above, it is life energy, therefore, everyone has kundalini, if you didn't you wouldn't be alive. If you haven't activated it it is dormant but who's to say how dormant it is. We've all been half-awake haven't we? On the border of sleep and wakefulness. As I stated earlier, it is my belief that you can awaken your kundalini and experience it's diverse effects, especially during traumatic or stressful experiences. But I don't think this is the same as activating your kundalini, in which case it is permanently awakened.

Also, many of these sensations could be caused by the various chakras/energy centres and not by the kundalini itself. Maybe these symptoms are just more prominent with people who have activated their kundalini because of the kundalini's interaction with the various energy centres.

[knew]

Wow, according to that list of symptoms, the "kundalini rising" can account for every sensation known to man.  

I'm not gunna argue with you there. I'll tell you a little bit of my story so you can understand better and cus it's kind of interesting.

Shortly after I came across the spiritual path I found, and did, a certain meditation that's specifically designed for activating your kundalini. I did it once and completely forgot about it. And then when I first started experiencing these symptoms I just thought they were regular sensations. You know muscle spasms here and there. And then I began to experience spontaneous sleep paralysis and internal vibrations, things which I had never experienced before. Research led me to find sleep paralysis isn't uncommon, but it got me thinking something's up. Didn't know exactly what but something was up. I thought maybe they were happening because of my newfound interest in spiritually related topics, and because of the visualizations I was doing at the time (simple things like imagining myself in white light and the light expanding). You know, I'm reading about these higher dimensions so maybe my mind is connecting with them in a way. At least that's what I thought at the time. Didn't even chalk it up to be because of the kundalini meditation I did that one time because like I said I completely forgot about it! Or I think it would be better to say that I neglected the fact that I did it.

A few days or maybe weeks later I was in my car with my friend in the parking lot when I began hearing this faint whoosh sound. It sounded like a gentle stream. As I took notice to it, it got louder, so I turned music on to drown it out. Then it got louder and louder to the point where it began to drown out my music and sounded like I was standing in a waterfall or even like I was standing on shore when a huge tidal wave just came crashing down sweeping the city away. It was ridiculously loud. I looked at my friend startled but he seemed not to notice anything out of the ordinary. I turned the music down and looked at him trying to remain calm because I realized by his lack of expression that he may not be hearing this sound. With my hand on the knob I said, "do you hear something?" He said no. lol No?! That shizz was so loud! Anyways, I never mentioned it to him or brought it up; but that's when I definitely knew something was up, very much out of the ordinary. You must understand I never had any supernatural, weird, involuntary, gifted, anything ever happen to me before I began studying spirituality. By the time I got out of the car I felt like I was in an altered state of consciousness and I still heard the whooshing but it was lower now. I didn't want to drive because I didn't know how my state of mind would effect my driving and motor skills but as I walked around I seemed fine. I went in my friends house and sat for a bit to straighten myself out before I drove home and eventually the sound went away and I felt normal and drove home.

Eventually, I stumbled upon Journeys Out of Body and Monroe spoke of internal vibrations and sleep paralysis so I was like okay I'm not crazy and I'm not making this up. The huge, rushing sound however was still an odd mystery. It happened several times after that first time and one time was even accompanied by a sound of electricity. When I heard the electricity I heard it outside of my body but I just knew it was an internal sound. It seemed to come from within my head. Each time I heard the rushing sound I felt as if I was going to be sucked up or shot out of my body (this was before I knew about monroe, out of body experiences or astral projection) but that's how I felt and I always fought it because 1) I was in my car and 2) I didn't know what was going to happen. When I look back at it I kind of wish I would've surrendered to the experience.

A little bit after that I would experience this uh.. pleasant sensation in my brain. It's hard to describe. It sort of feels like light is magnifying/massaging certain parts of my brain, maybe altering it, producing a blissful sensation. It would start directly at the top of my head and spread and seep into certain parts of my brain. Then one day I had a normal headache like I should've cus I didn't eat much that day or something. The headache sucked and I couldn't eat at the time because I was out and didn't have money so I laid down and somehow I got the idea to 'play' with the pain. I focused on my headache and tried to move it around. I began to feel that oh so pleasurable sensation and was able to move it around to different parts of my brain. The more I played with it it eventually shifted to the middle of my forehead (my 'third eye') and the pleasurable feeling began to pulsate there. That sensation is one of the most amazing, pleasurable feelings I've ever had. That and flying while projecting/lucid... are better than drugs, sex, and roller coasters... in my book. Haven't had any spiritual or nonphysically energetic experiences involving sex or nonphysical sex etc. so who knows maybe that can one day come back and take the lead in the near future   .

Fast forward 2 years and while doing a certain energy work I started feeling.. well.. I don't know... faint?... like light headed... but throughout my body as well?... and the non-physical energy surrounding the lower half of my body was pulsating... I laid down (as to not.. faint?..). The non-physical energy surrounding the lower half of my body pulsated to a certain point and then the non-physical energy surrounding the upper half of my body pulsated to a certain point and then they sort of.. synced. That's when something began to move up my spine. It frightened the sh** out of me to say the least. It felt like a ball of energetic pressure that situated within and around my spine slithering up from the bottom of my spine. It moved from what is known as the base chakra to the naval chakra. It feels very physical. This is when I put 2+2 together and knew I had activated my kundalini. That the meditation I had done 2 years prior had worked and all the spontaneous sensations I had experienced were because of this.

The next day I did this energy thing again and it moved from the base to the naval then from the naval to the solar plexus. The next day I did this again because it was something that I did everyday, and that's when all hell broke loose. It simply would not or could not situate at my heart chakra . I would feel a HUGE rush/intake of energy from my feet to my head. Unlike anything I've ever felt before. (The rushing I used to hear always seemed as if it was from outside of me, even though I knew it was an internal sound, and I never felt any energy. With this I didn't hear anything I simply felt the energy rising through me.) It was like a 500% increase of my normal energy flow. When the kundalini would begin to rise my heart would beat faster and faster and faster like it was about to explode and then there was this sensation that I liken to when a desktop computer is on and you hold the power button and it goes "eeeeuuurrrrrnn" (lol) and turns off...like a system shut down. Then it would go back down to my root chakra. From there I would have heart palpitations. I would feel pain in my left arm, it would get heavy and hurt. My heartbeat was irregular until I could no longer feel my heart beating nor could I feel my pulse. Then I would feel lightheaded and dreary... as if I was about to faint.. like I was losing consciousness and slipping away. (It was similar to how I felt before I had my first conscious exit OBE a few months later that I wrote about in a prior post... but that time I felt faint.. this time I felt like I was about to faint) I had to fight it because I didn't know if I was dying or what (and it felt kind of dangerous unlike when I had my first conscious exit OBE, that 'lightheaded' sensation felt more natural and safe. I say lightheaded but it's not really lightheaded.. it's not like when you smoke a cigarette.. but that's the best way I can describe the feeling, it's a distinct feeling I've felt a couple times.. like.. I feel faint). Anyways, after awhile this whole process would start all over again.. over and over again exactly as described.. and this would go on allllllll night. Literally from like 11-7. IT SUCKED to say the least.

So the next night I was like maybe this won't happen every time I do this energy work and again it happened, and again it sucked. A week later I thought well maybe if I just do a little bit of energy work and not nearly as much it won't happen. It happened again and this time it was the worst. I contemplated calling the hospital a number of times. I made peace with death. I told my roommate to check up on me when he leaves to go to work in the morning to see if I was still alive. The process was going on over and over, it was horrible and I had to put an end to it. When the kundalini would rise to my heart I would feel this huge rush of very, very fine energy enter my left palm and travel through my hand. Then I remembered from Bruce Moen's book that when he first went to TMI he was experiencing all this energy and he went outside and rolled in the grass and felt better afterwards. So I got the idea that maybe if I could ground the energy it would stop the process from starting over again. So I got up went in the backyard barefoot and stood in the dirt.. Nothing happened   ... Well, I definitely wasn't about to roll around in the grass! It was very early like 6 or 7 AM and no one was outside but still.. Anyways, we have these huge trees in front of our house so I walked out there, put my left hand on one of the trees and leaned on it.. so if you walked outside and saw me leaning on the tree you would probably think I was on the phone or something. So then I visualized energy from the tree entering my left palm and sort of.. I don't know what to call it.. "-willed- it happening" and I began to feel the energy of the tree enter my hand. It was very heavy and coarse as opposed to the light and finer energy already entering my hand, and I don't know if I would say of lower vibration than the vibration already entering my hand because of the kundalini being at my heart but it definitely was not as fine. The energy from the tree kind of stopped where my elbow was and was acting as a sort of.. I don't know if this is the technical term but.. diode? The finer energy would try to enter my palm but it's like it was blocked. I thanked the tree, mother nature, and Bruce Moen. The energy was held at bay, the process stopped, and I was able to go to sleep.

After that I had to completely change so many things about my life. I had to change my diet at that time because my heart, body, and blood pressure was unstable for awhile. My body now also naturally detoxes itself. After decades of sleeping on my stomach I had to sleep on my back. If I laid on my stomach I immediately got muscle spasms, felt pain, or got headaches. And my headaches aren't the same anymore they are now pressures in my head from a build up of energy that I now relate to kundalini. I can kind of lay on my stomach now but can't sleep on it. Sometimes when I sleep on my back there becomes a build up of pressure that feels like it's about to explode out of my back. It's a sharp pain that hurts really bad but a tempurpedic contour pillow fixes the problem. Thank GOD I had a contour pillow it was a lifesaver and I used it all while going through that heart chakra problem, don't know what I would've done without it, probably be dead. I mean there's so much I had to go through because of kundalini. I can't even eat too much candy or I'll get a headache! (too much candy is like half a box of sour patches or 2 hershey bars). If I drink a little bit of alcohol or smoke too much tobacco I get internal vibrations that I gotta deal with damn near allll night before I can finally drift off to sleep. It's very annoying. It feels like my vibration was lowered because of the substance and the vibration is caused by my body raising back to its normal state. Don't know if that's the case but that's what it feels like. And taking drugs, forget about it! If I get some kind of illness that demands I take medicine I don't know what the hell I'd do . But overall I've learned to live with it and it's helped me straighten out my life and has taught me valuable lessons. The only dangers are forcing it up. Forcing it up through your heart chakra can get you a heart attack and by forcing it through the ajna chakra you can get a stroke. I just let it do its thing, live natural, and have everything happen naturally.

But the point I was trying to make is that once kundalini activates and rises you know it's kundalini. There's no if's and's or butt's. There is a non-physical/physical energetic pressure moving along my spine everyday. Going up and down from my base to sacral chakra. Sometimes it feels like one big ball of pressure, sometimes it feels like many points of pressure that form a ball, sometimes it's a tingling, sometimes it's a slither, sometimes it's at my root and sacral chakra at the same time, sometimes it's a sharp pain. Basically there are symptoms in the list you can experience without activating kundalini (obviously) but there are also experiences you have when it's activated that don't just happen. That internal rushing sound, blissful sensations seeping into the depths of your brain, foreign energy moving up and down the spine.. these things don't just happen. Especially in the middle of the day during waking hours without meditating, trying to go out of body, or nothing of the sort. You don't have to believe or accept that this energy or phenomenon is real, but if it ever happened to you then when it happened you would know without a doubt.

Speaking from experience these kundalini symptoms are more than accurate. If you've activated your kundalini you will more than likely experience a multitude of these symptoms. You will surely have experienced a various number of these symptoms before you even knew your kundalini was activated.

From my experience if you activated your kundalini and felt it rise you wouldn't be on a forum asking people if that was kundalini, you wouldn't need to ask anyone anywhere. But like I said scroll through the symptoms and see if any apply to you. The ones that are starred with an asterisk are ones that I have experienced myself.

The following are common manifestations of the risen Kundalini:

*Muscle twitches, cramps or spasms.

*Energy rushes or immense electricity circulating the body

*Itching, vibrating, prickling, tingling, stinging or crawling sensations

Intense heat or cold

*Involuntary bodily movements (occur more often during meditation, rest or sleep): jerking, tremors, shaking; feeling an inner force pushing one into postures or moving one's body in unusual ways.  (May be misdiagnosed as epilepsy, restless legs syndrome (RLS), or PLMD.)

*Alterations in eating and sleeping patterns

Episodes of extreme hyperactivity or, conversely, overwhelming fatigue (some CFS victims are experiencing Kundalini awakening)

Intensified or diminished sexual desires

*Headaches, pressures within the skull

*Racing heartbeat, pains in the chest

*Digestive system problems

*Numbness or pain in the limbs (particularly the left foot and leg)

*Pains and blockages anywhere; often in the back and neck (Many cases of FMS are Kundalini-related.)

Emotional outbursts; rapid mood shifts; seemingly unprovoked or excessive episodes of grief, fear, rage, depression

Spontaneous vocalizations (including laughing and weeping) -- are as unintentional and uncontrollable as hiccoughs

***Hearing an *inner sound or sounds, classically described as a flute, drum, *waterfall, birds singing, bees buzzing but which may also sound like *roaring, *whooshing, or *thunderous noises or like *ringing in the ears.***

Mental confusion; difficulty concentrating

Altered states of consciousness: heightened awareness; spontaneous trance states; mystical experiences (if the individual's prior belief system is too threatened by these, they can lead to bouts of psychosis or self-grandiosity)

*Heat, strange activity, and/or blissful sensations in the head, particularly in the crown area.

Ecstasy, bliss and intervals of tremendous joy, love, peace and compassion

Psychic experiences: extrasensory perception; out-of-body experiences; pastlife memories; astral travel; direct awareness of auras and chakras; contact with spirit guides through inner voices, dreams or visions; healing powers

Increased creativity: new interests in self-expression and spiritual communication through music, art, poetry, etc.

Intensified understanding and sensitivity: insight into one's own essence; deeper understanding of spiritual truths; exquisite awareness of one's environment (including "vibes" from others)

Enlightenment experiences: direct Knowing of a more expansive reality; transcendent awareness
-http://www.elcollie.com/st/symptoms.html

I only starred the ones that I've experienced that directly deal with sensual phenomena definitely caused by activation of the kundalini.

From my knowledge and experience I think it's possible to arouse and feel diverse effects of kundalini without activating it. It awakens, you experience its effects, and then it goes back to being dormant. Maybe this is what happened to you. For example, kundalini plays a big role in the female birth process. After the child is born, the mother's kundalini goes back into its dormant state. However, when you activate your kundalini it never goes back into a dormant state. It's forever awakened. You may not always feel it during the day, but as soon as you think of it or sit or lay down, boom there it is. Also, it is my belief (and I have read) that once activated, and it passes the heart, it never goes below the heart chakra again. I've had experiences that seem to confirm this.

If I were you I wouldn't be too hung up on activating my kundalini. It certainly can assist in your spiritual progression but it is not needed for enlightenment. If I would've known what I was going to be in for prior to activating my kundalini I may not have done it. And once activated you have to live with it for the rest of your life, it cannot be deactivated. There have been times where I legitimately thought I was going to die, no lie. I'm talking about being on the edge of a heart attack. If I was in my 50's, or had a weaker heart, I'm sure I would've died. I've had to completely revamp my lifestyle. That means my life has changed even down to the way I sleep and eat. I can't take any kind of drugs whatsoever, so I don't know wtf I would do if I came across a terrible illness that required me to take medication . There are so many other things, but all in all it's been a great experience and I truly do love it. I'm just not sure if I would've done it again had I known better..

Today, usually when I meditate (I'd say at least 7/10 times) I quickly find myself, initially, in the midst of what appears to be millions of swirling white stars in a black mass of space.

This description sounds very similar to other descriptions of the 3D Blackness 'at' Focus 21

I think you should hold off on hosting workshops until you have these experiences for yourself. By trying to teach workshops you are directing a great portion of your time and energy into hosting workshops instead of into having these experiences for yourself. I was at a workshop recently and it is very beneficial to have someone there who has experience in what they're doing. It will make you better suitable to help people. Now, if you want to get together with a group of other interested explorers and try to have experiences and do partnered explorations and other activities there's nothing wrong with that. Will there be some kind of special focus of group energy that will assist you with having these experiences who knows.. but personally I would just try to do it myself.. especially if you're trying to take on some kind of teaching or leadership role.. there's nothing wrong with that.. but even people who seem to be open minded can tend to be a bit judgmental, doubtful, skeptical, impressionable, or opinionated, and ask a lot of questions which you may not be able to answer from personal experience.

The vibrations do go away and it turns into numbness. I have my theories as to why this happens but I won't speculate.. just know that you are on the right track.. and you don't always need to experience vibrations in order to have an experience. As a matter of fact most of the experiences I've had so far did not accompany any vibratory effects.

I used to try to separate the same way, sometimes realizing I was trying to move physical muscle. And then after every experience I would have (which came very infrequently, few and far apart) I realized it was the mental state I was in, coupled with physical relaxation, that led to the experience. Most of the experiences I've had came from me doing very little to nothing and came about by just being in the right state of mind. This has led me to completely give up on trying to separate from my body, doing all these techniques, and trying to have out of body experiences.. to focusing more on phasing because phasing focuses more on attaining the proper state of mind that is necessary for projection and inner exploration. This forum has very good details and tips about phasing so I would suggest searching around.

Hi,

I just attended Bruce Moen's workshop over the weekend and he was saying how, according to his experiences, one usually experiences non-physical pain when there is some kind of resistance in the flow of the non-physical energy that is flowing through your body (I'm sure I could've worded that better but whatever). This explanation holds true to my experiences as well. I would recommended being mentally and physically relaxed and just letting the energy flow and the vibrations wash over you. Non-physical pains can occur even with physical tension or a blockage of physical and non-physical energy. You simply will not be able to separate and have a conscious exit (traditional oobe) if there is any kind of physical tension, so like the others were saying, don't try to force it.

I hear a ringing sometimes but I usually brush it off because it comes when I'm in the middle of something. One night I was lying on my couch just resting and relaxing when I started to have this feeling. It's quite hard to explain.. It kinda feels like I'm slipping away.. as if I'm about to lose consciousness.. like I'm going to faint but not in a way that indicates I have an abnormality or imbalance of any kind. I've had this feeling before and I usually just fight it or I would shake it off.. the closest thing I can use to relate is the feeling of being light-headed but it's not quite the same. This feeling did not seem as if I was sick or like there was anything wrong with me. Well, this time I decided to go along with it and see what would happen.

I relaxed into the feeling and then I started to hear a high pitched tone in my ear. I closed my eyes and concentrated on the tone and it got louder and then built up in pressure. Once it got to a certain pressurized point I felt as if my conscious awareness slid from my head and slipped into a tunnel in my chest (the only way I can describe it). Once this happened my chest then began to rise and I felt as if I was floating upwards from my chest up. Once that sensation ceased I then felt as if I was separating from my body diagonally and upwards to the left. This separation accompanied a magnetic pull at my left foot. The more I concentrated on separating the more I would be magnetically pulled out of my body (I'm emphasizing that it felt very magnetic). When I would stop concentrating on separating I would simply float motionlessly.

Eventually I was floating horizontally a few feet up above and to the left of my physical body in a new body that seemed just as much physical as the one I had just separated from. I was in the same room and was now wearing a shirt (I wasn't physically wearing a shirt at the time). I was trying to move so that I could go explore but I felt stuck. I was very alert and awake and magnetically stuck floating horizontally in the air of my living room. I tried to put my feet down and turn vertically upright but there was this huge resistance and it was just not working. After floating there for god knows how long (and being kind of satisfied with the experience) I decided to call it quits, intended to be back in my body and woke up immediately.

Looking back at the experience I'm quite sure if I would've concentrated on separating further from my physical body I would've eventually got far enough to be able to move freely and explore. However, that being my first conscious-exit experience I didn't mind simply separating and coming back. One thing I learned from the experience is that it confirmed to me that the out of body experience is definitely happening within us. There was a definite feeling of going within my self before a separation of any kind. And that is my experience with the high pitched tone in my ear.

@M4RT1N

I usually try to phase while laying down on the couch in the living room, and I fall asleep very rarely, barely ever when I do that now that I think about it. And if I roll over and decide to sleep I'm more likely to wake up out of body or lucid dream than I would if I tried to phase while lying down in my bed.

Racing thoughts are not a problem to get into sleep paralysis/MABA/F10. For that all u need to do is simply relax your physical body. Racing thoughts are a problem when trying to get into a deeper focus 12, and to make the shift from focus 12 to focus 21. Because that's when u need to become less aware of the physical, and constant mind chatter interferes with that process. At least that's how it seems to be with me. But I will take your advice and see if it works for me.

I think what he's trying to say is that there have been experiments that show that DNA responds to emotional stimuli. For instance, if you're experiencing anger, or any other perceivably negative emotion, the DNA strands may tighten. I don't know how reliable and accurate these sources and tests may be, but it seems to make logical sense to me.

I do use the noticing technique. I try to notice the cloudy grayness swirling before my eyes, but eventually it goes away... That's when I start trying to "do" stuff to get back to that point, (like trying to create a mental rundown, imagining scenes colors or objects, concentrating even harder on the blackness, looking upwards, etc.) which works to get me back to the point of the gray clouds, but then eventually it still goes away... 

[cannabis]

I smoked kush almost everyday for 6 years straight. I just stopped about 6 months ago. I've been into astral projection for about 2 or 3 years now. I haven't AP'ed while high as it just seemed like it would ultimately be counter-productive, but for about a year and a half every time I smoked I would experienced vibrations and a various array of other OOBE like sensations.

Weed is an entheogen (which is probably a main reason why it may never be legal nationwide). An entheogen ("generating the divine within")[4] is a psychoactive substance used in a religious, shamanic, or spiritual context. Examples of traditional entheogens include: peyote, psilocybin mushrooms, uncured tobacco, cannabis, ayahuasca, Salvia divinorum, Tabernanthe iboga, Ipomoea tricolor, and Amanita muscaria. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entheogen.

So, yes, it probably can lead to an OOBE, however, like I said, I wouldn't know because I refused to have one while I was high. Whenever I used to meditate or use Hemi-Sync, I would do it in the morning while I was sober, and then start my daily smoking when I was finished. When you smoke, since weed is an entheogen, it opens up your crown chakra, which doesn't close until you come down from the high. A big part of meditation is gaining control of your life, your mind, emotions, and body, and if you can't even dictate when or when not to connect to the higher realms (which happens when you open your crown chakra) then what's the point of smoking and meditating? It becomes counter-productive.

It also sends a huge rush of prana/life-force/whatever into your energetic system. This is what gives you that euphoric, lethargic, relaxed feeling in your physical body. Mentally, marijuana gives you an altered state of consciousness. If you can achieve an altered state of consciousness without marijuana, or any other drug for that matter, then why take it?

When it comes to an altered state of consciousness, Hemi-Sync makes marijuana pointless and seem like child's play. For me, for prana to enter my body, all I have to do is go into Focus 10 and visualize energy entering my feet and palm. I must admit the intake of prana is nothing as close to as when I'm on marijuana, but that amount of prana was not beneficial for me. It was like adding water to a cup that was already full and overflowing. Therefore, you can see smoking weed truly did become counter-productive for me.

Just to put it out there, there's other reasons I stopped but none of the reasons has anything whatsoever to do with morals or anything like that. I have a lot of friends that smoke weed (most of them actually) and I still love weed, and the stoner community, for a various number of reasons. I just don't smoke anymore. Meditation is way more important and beneficial to me and smoking weed and meditating is like mixing water and oil, while they may seem to have similar properties (both liquids/both give altered states of consciousness), they just don't mix well.

I don't see a link.. are you talking about this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiL0D-_cUKU

Looking at the bigger picture, I just want to explore Monroe's Focus 27, maybe do a few retrievals; and from there make my way to what Frank Kepple calls FoC 4. That's where we can find our "hidden treasure" so to speak... the holy grail of this so called projection experience... what I think is truly the only way for real, fast-tracked spiritual progression.

I think 2013 will be more or less the same to be honest. If we've really learned anything from this whole astral projection gold mine we've all stumbled upon (and from quantum physics) we can see that beliefs, mental constructs, and expectations shape our reality. Humankind as a whole is not in the mind state for a big spiritual shift that changes all forms of our reality within the next month or two (or even year or two), therefore it won't come about that way; and if we've really looked at the way life works we can see that, 9 times out of 10, big breakthroughs usually come about in small increments and not in just one big, huge life changing event. Spiritual evolution comes about through knowledge, hard work, perseverance, dedication, love, rightful action, a balanced lifestyle, etc; not through aliens, DNA, and other random events that would affect the mass populace against their free will. On the topic of DNA, TMI recently posted an article about how scientists have found that 80% of junk DNA helps dictate how and where proteins are produced; so I think that whole unlocking 12 strands of DNA for spiritual enlightenment rumor can be put to rest now. Article can be found here: http://www.monroeinstitute.org/thehub/worldwide-army-of-scientists-cracks-the-junk-dna-code

Binaural beats are more of like training wheels for me, I could never achieve an OOBE or anything like that with them on. It's more like they're there to help me experience and become familiar with the mind awake, body asleep state and the beginnings of focus 12, and everything after that I have to do on my own without them... like my dad let go of the bicycle. I still use them for relaxation, or if I'm trying to phase and I'm too awake to achieve the focus 12 state on my own I'll use them as a sort of catalyst for a slight push into focus 12. Btw, I'm talking about Hemi-Sync from TMI. Never used any other kind.

The astral realm is also called the desire realm, and by what you're saying it seems that you had a lot of desire to be conscious within the astral, so I think your desire to do so really affected your experience as well. The astral is also called the emotional realm (as I'm sure everybody knows) and desire is an emotion and emotions can definitely be a vital catalyst when it comes to these experiences. Just putting that out there for other first timers as well .

Thanks, I've been on this forum for quite awhile as a guest so I've read through a lot, I have Frank's posts as a PDF on my phone (thanks Xanth) but like I said I'll read through it again and read through all I've skipped over to see if I missed anything.

I just wanted to see if anyone has experienced the swirly blackness I was talking about.

I've already read that but I will reread it to see if I missed something, try to phase again later in the week, and update if I see any results.

Thanks for replying to my post! Yes, I need to get deeper into the phase. The million dollar question is how. I'm obviously missing a step once I get to this point. There is something that I am doing, or not doing, that is keeping me from getting deeper into the phase.

I have tried all you have suggested. It doesn't work for the most part. Imagining myself being of finer substance or of higher vibrational frequency is quite vague at this point in my venture. It is all very theoretical or analytical, especially if you have not experienced the Light within a substance or material or have not seen the subatomic particles within an object through clairvoyant sight; because, even when I have had oobes, or lucid dreams, in my experiences everything seems pretty solid even though they are of finer substance, livelier, and more colorful. I guess I could visualize it in a metaphorical way but even that does not work for me when I have tried it. I am a practical person and, although I have a pretty good imagination, it just doesn't seem to work for me when it comes to oobes and phasing, although Moen proves it should.

I was seeing if anyone has experienced the swirling blackness sweeping over their visual field and how they got passed this point. It usually comes about when I'm in focus 12 or if I am simply relaxed enough.

Asking for help seems fine, but it doesn't seem too practical for me. I would now be in a passive state waiting for someone else to take control of the situation. For example, lets say if what I am supposed to do at that point is clear my mind and be still, then I would be actively choosing not to do and I would still have control of the situation. By asking for help I would not be able to recreate the experience if my guides suddenly decided not to help because they want me to learn to do it on my own, which does happen.

[not]

I can have a traditional oobe if I really put the time and effort into it; so if I try to have a conscious exit I see results, however minimal they might be. However, posts from this forum, Robert Monroe, Bruce Moen, and Rosalind Mcknight, not to mention numerous others, all confirm that if you phase, then you are more likely to not encounter any type of negativity. Also, I cannot currently replicate a conscious exit oobe whenever I try and it is more of a spontaneous thing, whereas I feel with phasing I would have more control of when I could phase and the whole experience of projection.

I use the Monroe model of phasing and whenever I try to phase I start to see the blackness move before my eyes. To elaborate, I place intent to experience an altered state of consciousness and then I begin to count from 1 to 10. At that time I immediately begin to feel the effects of energy entering the bottom of my left foot and my left palm as my body begins to numb slightly and relax.

After some time (usually about 20 minutes) I then count to 12. At this time the 2D blackness before my closed eyes begins to 'sway' and 'swirl'. Some areas are darker than others. Then, like a wave of blackness will wash over from the left to the right, and then from the right to the left of my field of vision, and after awhile what seems to be a gray circle will start to form where they meet in the middle. I do not know what to do after I get to this point. Is there anyone with a similar experience? What do I do next?... What is your take on what I should do at this point?

Sometimes I feel like I should try to push my awareness forward into the circle as if it's some kind of portal or tunnel but that never seems to work and only ends the experience (the 2D blackness stops swirling and/or passing over my field of vision and becomes regular again). Trying to focus on the movement of the 2D blackness, or control the movement, seems to end the experience as well. Excessive thinking seems to end the experience also (it's okay to think, just not over think). If I begin to count deeper, like from 12 to 21 or higher, I fall deeper into relaxation and 'trance' (trance is not the proper word here but I have no other way of describing it), the blackness before my eyes stop moving, and I feel more of a rush of finer energy entering my body. I then lay there until I become bored and/or uncomfortable and abort the attempt to phase or project altogether, or I fall asleep.

I have read one thing about someone having a similar experience. They said the gray swirls would turn into colors of blue, purple, and gold which would then form a tunnel they would go through and would end up in the astral. That doesn't seem to happen for me. The gray swirls don't change color (maybe my energy is too low? The person did say they did years of energy work) and has yet to form a tunnel I could go through. I feel like phasing could work for me because I'm seeing this swirling blackness, which means I'm getting some kind of result... something is happening... I just don't know what to do next... I don't know how to take advantage of it. Sometimes I think it may be energy I'm just not perceiving properly with the faculties of my mind. I can almost always produce the experience of the swirling blackness so if I figured out what to do next or how to project from that point I would be able to almost always project. I would have more control of the experience instead of the experience controlling me and would be a lot more confident and carefree.

There's only been one time I've had a conscious exit where the experience wasn't completely intense. During that experience I seemed to sink within myself at which point I started to rise up from my chest and then began to separate and ended up in the astral equivalent of the physical realm (the RTZ). There were no vibrations accompanied with this experience. Every other time it is so effing intense with the vibrations etc. that I just abort the experience altogether because it makes me feel I have very little control of the experience. I don't like to project from my dreams because I can never tell if I projected into a recreated dream environment or an astral environment; so when I lucid dream I usually just fly around until the experience ends. These are the reasons I'm being rather patient until I can learn how to phase then project, but I've been stuck at this focus 12 2D blackness thing for awhile, well over a year now.

When Frank Kepple would phase he would encounter the 3D blackness of focus 21 at which point he would place intent and phase to say, focus 27, for example, and then would project into that 'environment'. I view this as the ideal situation. For example, Frank was never able to control where he ended up in the astral until he started to phase, and then he had more control of where he ended up when he would phase and then project. For me, I feel like once I get to focus 12 I'm getting off on the wrong exit which just takes me back to the physical. However, Frank didn't start phasing until after he had a whole lot of experience of conscious projection (Although, I know this isn't necessary because of Bruce Moen). But when he would have a traditional oobe he would end up way past the RTZ into some random astral environment and it wasn't until years after.. that he learned how to get to the RTZ through a conscious exit. When I conscious exit I end up in the RTZ which is not where I want to be so I just avoid it altogether.

However, if I were to have a conscious exit, a traditional oobe, while I had on, let's say, focus 27 Hemi-Sync frequencies, do you think I would end up in or be pulled to a focus 27 'environment'? What do you think would happen? Please feel free to share your thoughts and experiences. Thank you.