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quote:cainam_nazier, what a waste of a good obe, not that you could have done anything about it since it looked normal. How did you get it to last that long? What did you do when you realized you hadnt been on earth for the last few hours?

I really didn't do anything to get it to last that long.  I did not have a clue anything was wrong or different.  At the time I was just going about my day as I normally would.  Actually it would have been a very productive day a work if it had been real.

Like I said I didn't realize anything was wrong until I started having some problems.  I was cleaning and noticed some water runing under some of the equipment I was hozing off.  The crack in the floor should not have been there.  When I looked I noticed a room under the floor that also should not have been there.  I spent the next ten minutes or so trying to get to the room and some time durring that I realized what was going on.  When I looked at where I was and what I was doing I fully realized I was dreaming or something and then everything just started to fade away.

I was kinda bumbed because I knew I had to wake up so I could go "back to work".[]

Just a thought.  You could be putting too much behind the image.  The fact that you are seeing it everywhere now could only be because in some way you are looking for it.

It's is kinda the same effect as when you or some one you know gets a new car.  Suddenly you start seeing that car all over the place.  It is not so much that there are any more or less of them ou just notice them more because you equate the item to the one you or you friend now has.

It is possible that you are experiencing this kind of behavior because you placed some meaning on what you saw.  

Then on the other handif you believe that it does have some kind of meaning them maybe you could try looking into some books on symbols.  Look into religious or magical symbols of various culture.  You could also try looking up various sets of runes to find a match.

Wow, that was great you two. Well actually 6+ if we count all involved.[]

This is all really interesting which leads me to even more questions.


1.  If the individuals own soul/consiousness wished to continue into another body, through cloning, a blank would have to be on hand or available shortly after seperation?

2.  The way the process was explained also implies that a living thing, or rather a currently incarnated being/thing, could never be fully replicated because of the soul/consiouness.  Even if the replicated being was physically similar it would vary simply on its soul/cousiouness.  Is that correct?

3.  Okay and not to sound a little geeky, but lets see if we can get this concept into terms more easily understood by the general populas.  The interaction between the soul, cousiousness, group consiousness, and so on seems to be a bit like it is described in Star Wars with midicalorians and the force.  Would that be a fairly accurate analogy?  To clear up my meaning, that being a soul or what term is better suited, inhabits all living cells.  That together they form consiousness and bind us together with all living things.  

4.  If I am thinking correctly, which I believe I am, in essance the individual is his/her own "group consiousness"?  Just as the individual is a part of the larger group?  And ultimately the universal mind?

5.  Would all of this explain why for me, and probably others as well, why many of the answers given here, even to the odder questions, are seemingly already known?   That many of the answers given are the expected responce even if the question was not previously pondered by the individual?

I had a good half a day one time.  I managed to get to work and go half way through my shift before things started getting screwy.  That's a good 7 hours or so in "dream time".

Okay, I have another handful of questions.  I will fully understand if the following is difficult to get answers for because I believe they might fall under the "huge question" catagory.  But these are a few things I haven't seen approached in other sites.

Cloning.

It was previously said that the Zeta's use cloning as thier means of reproduction.  With that in mind.

1.  Do you (the Zeta's) believe that we are on the right track with our own process of cloning?
2.  Did you go through the same kinds of pitfalls that our own scientists are experiencing?  That being abnormalities that have resulted in so many different kinds of failures.
3.  It is currently believed that you can not maintain a race through genetic replication alone because of cellular degridation.  Is this a problem for you or have you managed to get past that into pure genetic replication?
4.  DId your race go through the same moral conflict as our own when it comes to cloning?  That being over the implications of cloning something that can be self aware and the effect of knowing ones origins on the mind.
5.  Did your race go right into cloning for reproduction or did you first try to create clones for organ harvesting or attempt cloning individual organs for replacments?
6.  What do you think of our own moral issues with cloning bodies for the sake of organ harvesting?
7.  Did cloning become needed for reproduction or did it just seem like a good idea at the time?  And how did your race as a whole react to the idea?
8A.  This could be my own flawed view but, cloning seems to negate the idea of a soul.  The human idea of a soul is that it is not an "item" that can be replicated along with a body, ie it is not a biological function.  Is our idea of a soul in error?  
8B.  Is the soul we refer to not so much a thing but an idea?  To better describe, is what we describe a soul simply self awareness?  
8C.  If it isn't simply self awareness what effects would cloning have on our being and the soul?  Would we be without one?
8D.  And what about past lives and re-incarnation, things we believe happen because of the soul, how would cloning effect them?
9.  And just for the topper.  Because of the idea of the human soul and its function is it even possible to clone a human correctly?


Like I said I understand if the above is difficult.  My brain kinda hurts just from thinking of the possible answers.  I already have an idea on some of these because of my own beliefs on how the human soul functions.  But I would like to hear what the Zeta's have to say.

Okay, how many people have read "The Illiad"?

My personally I consider the various bible's to be much the same as this book.  In "The Illiad" there is much that is considered historical fact, more that is considered possible but speculation, but most of it is made up.  We know that the Trojan wars took place, we also know that at least 20% of the people listed through out the book were actually alive in those times, and we can accept that it is possible that the descriptions of who killed who and how are possibly true.  But we also know that a great many of the details were blown way out of proportion as a way creating the heroic figures that the people of the time believed them to be.  We also accept that the many descripencies come from the story being handed down orally for several years before actually being written down.  

In the end the overall view of the book "The Illiad" is considered historical fiction based on the events of the Trojan Wars.

The various bibles read the same way.  We know that some of the major events actaully took place to some degree because of other historical evidence and accounts.  We consider it fact that a man named Jesus lived in those times and was a major player in a spiritual revolution in the area.  That is just name one thing from the bible that is considered historical fact.  But what I don't understand is how that so many people can look at the book as a complete historical record of the times when the story telling style of the time was to idolize the main charaters in any story as these wonderous heroic figures.

There are too many things in the various forms of the bible to say that is one way or the other it is historically true or complete mythology.  It is, like most books/stories from the time, a fanciful tale based loosely on actual events.

I thought I was next in line....[]

I guess I'll just have to work on rectifying certain proceedures..[}:)]

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Oh, yeah....."I love you man!" [)]

I have only had it twice in a row.  The third time I woke up, and actually being awake this time, I just sat there for a few minutes trying to figure out if I was awake or not.  I ended up spending the rest of the day doing that really.  Every time some thing even slightly odd would happen I would wait to see if I was going to wake up again.

Kinda annoying really.

If you are indeed that sensative the idea of there being several energies trying to get you rattention is a plausable one.  There are several different things you could do to help at the very least calm the places you spend most of your time.  There is a user on this board named Nita.  She is very knowledgable about physical remidies to problems such as yours.  Well that being the attracting of energies.  Have you tried things like insence or rituals to help slow things down a bit?

The dream part I find interesting also.  The reality of the dreams could be part of the reason you have difficulty waking up.  For all intents and purposes your body could be thinking you are actually there, even if your mind knows it is a dream.  If you are fully aware durring this you could try telling yourself that its time to wake up.  That and concetrating your thoughts on your physical body could help to bring you out of this state when it happens.  Other than that I don't know, it's kinda a shot in the dark.  But many people when projecting or lucid dreaming encounter the experience ending when they start thinking about thier physical body.  What many view as a set back could help you here.

The re-occurring person in your dreams is also interesting.  Again there are several possibilities to why he is there.  Amoung then are the following: 1. He could be an attached energy, either some thing you have been carrying for a while, or some thing you picked up around the time he started showing up.  2.  He could be a watcher entity.  There has yet been no discerned reason for thier appearance but they have taken interest in the functions of humans, mostly when they are alseep.  Thier origin is also unknown.  3.  It's also possible that he is a guide of some kind.  That only you can figure out and it would be through long conversation with him.

You also said that you went to a hypnotherapist with little results.  Did that person have any experience with dealing with attached energies?  There is a web site you could check out for more assistance in finding some one who does deal with this kind of problem. The main web site is here. http://www.witchvox.com/  You can also look people up by your location here. http://www.witchvox.com/xwotw.html   I don't know if you are into the whole pagan religious view or not, it's not important if you are, but many of the people here who offer services acknowledge alternate reasons for various problems.

Up until a couple of weeks ago I was going to a hypnotherapist and she may be able to reccomend some one in your local area if you would like.  I found her through the Witch's Voice Web Site.

Okay, I'll bite.  How come it changes if you post in the thread?  It WAS a bunny..now it's just some dude.[]

SO why does it change?

I don't know where it went to but there used to be a "Notify Administrator" link at the bottom of the forums.  I can't seem to find it now but I always thought it was a good idea.  Me personally I don't think that the banning or unbanning of a user should be discussed in open forum.  This often leads to more people being involved than need to and can cause a situation to get out of hand.


However Adrian has said numerous times that if you believe a user to be a problem or wish to file a complaint to simply PM him or another administrator.  They do ahve thier own private forum where they discuss what actions they are going to take on various subjects.

I picked up Psi practice about a year ago.  A little after comming to this forum.  To date I have had no verifiable or reproducable results.  At times I feel some thing is there, however the feeling itself has not produced any visible effects that I am aware of.

I have been trying telekinesis with obly a few wabbles here and there.  Nothing I can certify to my exertions.  Possibly just air movements due to moving or breathing.  But like I said I get the feeling that process is starting to work.

I have also been working on shields and such.  But again no verifiable proof.  I have no ability to see any shield constructs and I have not had anyone say or do anything odd when I mess around in public.

Also since I have not been witness to anyone doing anything like this the jury is still out on the posibilities.

I always thought that the F-word came from

"For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge"

The offenders often called F-er's.  Which we now call rapists.  It was a charge the church thought up.  

Your chances of winning the Power Ball Jackpot, an American Lottery for all you "non's", is 120,526,770 to 1.  You chances of getting hit by lighting twice is only 40,000,000 to 1.  The odds are better for you getting hit by lightning.

Have you tried just not thinking about it for a while?  Say a couple of weeks.  It kinda sounds like you maybe putting too much thought into it.  You know, trying too hard.

I have noticed that from time to time I require a break from all this spiritual stuff.  I seem to need the break to allow information to soak in properly.  Then things just kinda pick back up by themselves.

Just sleep and think about regular dreaming.  Tell yourself that LDing is not something you have to do.

I have been called an Atheist because I will openly say to people, "There is no god..well not for me."  or "God does exist, but only in the hearts and minds of those who believe."

Most heavy believers take these two lines as insults.  That I am saying that God does not exist.  However I am not saying that.  My view is more that of an Agnostic.  I have no proof of the existance of or non-existance of a god.  By proof I mean that I have had no personal experience to say yes or no.  But by logic the lack of evidence points to the non-existance.  But also I have no real desire or need to find the answers to this riddle.

Because of my experiences thus far I have adapted more of the "personal God" idea.  That being if you are set out to prove then you will find exactly what you are looking for.  The same if you are out to disprove.  Because of that god is not some thing that can be shared by everyone.  You can only know god on an individual level and not on a group one.  This make the whole god/no god experience a very personal one with no resulting physical evidence to support it.

Hence the personal god idea.

Yes knowledge is power.  I agree with that fully.  But I would place knowing self above everything else.  I feel strongly that if you don't know yourself then everything else you know is usless.  Knowing yourself gives you the wisdom and understanding to use everything else you know to achieve what you want.

Have you tried afirmations.  If not try it just before you go to sleep, after you have made yourself comfortable and all.  Think of something to say that is short and to the point.  It seems to work better if you use a present tence sentace like "I am", not "I will be".  Some thing like..."I am lucid when I dream."  Or "I am aware when I dream."  These kinds of affirmations helped me with a few things actually.

That was great.  Did you happen to read the "Application to date my daughter" as well.  That was some good stuff too.  I going to give a copy of that one to my brother for future referance.  He just had a little girl.  Or I should say his wife had her, but he helped.

That is amusing.  I didn't even really notice that is was all screwed up at the begining.  It was not until it said that all the letters could be messed up that I realized that thye were.

That's just wrong that the brain can function like that.

I have been finding recently that I am constantly trying to do or remember things that will effect my waking life.  Like in one I was trying to save a couple of bugs that I "found".  I was attempting to put them into containers so that I could show them to people.  I knew and was fully aware that I was dreaming but I thought that I could save them for when I woke up.   I am not exactly sure why.

Another interesting one was when a person, who in waking life I had called and left a message, walked into the dream I was having.  I again knew I was dreaming but thought to ask the person if they got the message I had left earlier in the day.  Oddly the responce I got in the dream was pretty darn close to the one I got from them when I woke up.

It was suggested to me by a friend that the vividness of my dreams and such is the reason for this carry over between sleeping and waking life.  It was suggested that because everything seems so real durring the dream the mind thinks that things will carry over or brings in thoughts of the real world even though I am aware that I am dreaming.  If your dreams are as real and detailed as mine then it is possible that you are experiencing the same kind of interaction.

As far as waking up when you become aware or the dream simply ending because of it, just stick with it.  It will go away and the dreams will continue.  One of the things that I found that has helped me is to not make or try to make any drastic changes right away.  Allow yourself to stay thinking but kinda play along with the dream.  But do little things like ask questions and such that come to mind.  This has helped me build a solid base from which more and more things can be changed.

In my opinion "the debate" is not so much over the validity of the contact or the anger that has ensued from all angles because of it, but of it is about peoples beliefs.  When you start messing with a persons beliefs things get messy fast.  People can become fanatical extreamly fast.  And as many of us here know, a fanatical is the worst spiritualist.

I have sat here participating but not really making any comments of anyones actions.  I have watched as people on both sides changed from a stance of open mindedness to that of a fanatical zealot.  All this because thier beliefs came into question.

We were asked to accept the possibility of the impossible.  Our beliefs were challanged, but in turn we asked the same, and challanged the beliefs of others.

The questions that were asked of us and that we asked of others forced everyone to take a long look at what they believe.  The anger and rage that showed up did so because people don't like change, and we have all been changed.  But we long for how we were, it is easier to see yourself how you were instead of how you are.  The fear of not wanting to see ourselves for who we are drove us into to becoming something even worse and more difficult to look at, and the battle begain.

But we weren't really fighting with each other, but with ourselves, our own beliefs.  I doubt there are many here that are willing to say that they are no longer the person they were, that they have changed.  I will not name anyone but there are several people here that I have held in high reguard.  Thier wisdom, friendliness, and willingness to share is matched by very few people I have met.  I was over-whelmed by how many of them I found in one place.

But all things change and so do people.  But with change comes the possibilty to grow, to evolve into something better than we were.  Change allows us to have a wider and greater understanding of the world around us.  It is not some thing to be feared and attacked, nor is it something that we can run from.  

My only hope is that everyone sees the change that has taken place, accepts that it happened, learns from it, and become better people because of it.

FT,

You will never be able to change the world unless you can change your own view of it.  If you only see what the world is and not what it could be, then sadly, it will never change.  Change comes from throughts and ideas, from with in.  If you can not see the potential of something then you will never find it.

I will agree that no one can change the world.  But people have the ability to change and grow.  If you can help  one person change in even the smallest bit, well then in my book you have done your part for the greater good.

No, I still don't agree perceiving many voices is bad.  When ever I go into a deep meditation top open myself up to others thoughts I almost always get multiple voices.  I get all kinds of stuff: phone conversations, people talking to themselves, random thoughts, dream images, and some misc. entities.  I consider this to be normal when going into this kind of altered state.  Now I can filter them out to where there is only one or two if there is a need or desire to, but in general I listen to them all.

And I am still normal.  I don't have paranoid delusions, or multiple personalities, or any other psychological diorders.

It is like with all things a matter of what you do with it and or how you allow it to effect you.  The just being there listening is not the cause of the problem.  The problem is the resulting actions of the individual not what he or she hears.

26, with less than a month before 27.

I keep an open ear on the topic just in case it all turns out to be ture.  I find myself wondering if it is true but at the saem time not really wanting to believe it.

My problem comes with the information and answers given to all of our questions.  I either already know the information or expected the kind of responce given.  This keeps me bother wondering and disbelieving at the same time.  

The problem is I don't know where, why, or how I know most of this information.  It's possible that I know it because it is the same kind or argument I would use if I was trying to dupe everyone into believing all of this.  But it is also possible that I already know all of this because of outside sources.  That being I was shown or given this information through what ever means so that I am prepared for when it happens.  The other possibility is that I have read more than I realize on the subject and hence no new information is being presented.  

Of course it's possible that I am an alien and just don't know it.[)]