Messages

you're on your way

i thought it would be interesting here to add that almost the same degree of concentration that is needed to keep your mind focused on keeping your mind clear is needed to watch tv. it's so hard in the beginning to keep your monologue quiet because it's never really been tried. we've been watching tv since we were born and any one of us can literally lose our sense of self while watching a movie. while watching a movie, your mind has something to grasp, making it easier to stay focused.  the hard part is keeping your mind focused w/ out anything to focus it on. we are all vey capable of achieving this state, it is very difficult though.
fred

i've also read, i believe in ad, that if you aim for a spot right above the horizon and project yourself there by flying as fast as you can, that it will take you to a more astral, astral plane.
fred

i cant say that ive tried different things that have helped me react differently to those type of situations. i've always found that i am the most passive person that i know. i do have reasons for it though. i believe those situations would be handled better if looked upon as you were an observer, which you really are, and not someone participating in the situation. i've never done this but the way i act can be described as someone taking mental notes of the situation around them. since you're only taking notes, there is no reason to get emotional. aside from taht reason not to get emotional, there just isn't any other reason at all to get emotional. actually, there is no reason at all for any type of a reaction, unless there is some sort of physical altercation.

this is something i have been thinking about lately. i havent finished on it so there may be holes in it. i'd like to be able to fix those holes because it seems like something that could make a good amount of sense. i've been giving some thought to how we view other people. if someone does act in some way that's not in accordance to our way of thinking, usually there is a negative label put on that person or situation. that guy cut you off, you get mad and think he's a poophead. this person acted a certain way for a reason. i won't go into right and wrong here but, the act was carried out because at that time a decision was made to do so. the decision was made from thoughts that person had. even if there was something in the back of this perons mind that said this isnt the way to do this, it was still done. so there had to be a valid reason in their mind to act this way. it was genuinely felt that this situation should be handled in this manner, much like you handled the situation in the manner you saw fit. if we could understand exactly what the thought process was, maybe there would be less labeling and more understanding. hence, not reacting. sure there would be a point where you didnt agree w/ what was done, but you would see waht was being thought at the time and see that even if you didnt agree w/ it, there was a reason behind it.

this gets a little deeper and is the part i'm still giving much thought to. when a thought is birthed, where does it come from? aside from memory and the way we grew up.  whethere or not  we can identify this place, is it safe to identify this place w/ "us" , or "we" or "i"? is this our true nature? if so, is it our fault that we react to situations in certain ways? if this is us then how can we be at fault? i'm not talking about premeditiated actions here.  if you truly feel that what you are doing is not something you should be doing, have time to think about it, and you follow through w/ it, i belive it's safe to say that you are at fault, or wrong. w/ regard to situations like this one, someone beeping their horn at you, is someone at fault here, or better than that, is there anything at all to be mad at? in situations like these the reaction is so immediate that i sometimes entertain that the person that perfomed the action that i thought innapropriate is no different than i . we both had thoughts which led to actions and they were both carried out. i debate w/ myself if should i take credit for acting the way i do , or if blame should be put on  someone else for immediately reacting they way they did. sure we can be taught to react differently to certain situations, especially ones that let anger arise. if we don't learn this, and it has been suggested, where does the fault lay? couldn't things be looked at as just a diffrence in opinion, or genetic even?

this is something that comes to mind, it may not fit in here but i'll include it. there are kids that ride around (i'm 23 btw, still a kid myself) w/ chrome on top of their wheel wells and loud mufflers, that do so because they truly feel that this is "cool" for lack of a better word. i don't think it can even be proven that it's not cool. i personally don't believe it is, and the majority of the people that i hang around w/ during the day i believe to be intelligent people, agree w/ me. maybe to generalize a little better...the outwardly appearance that is expressed here genuinely makes the person doing so, feel better about themself. i can't help to think as ridiculous as i think some of the things are, that are done today, they are as legitimate as the opposing arguments against them, because of what they accomplish inside the person carrying them out.

it would be nice if this came across how i'm thinking about it. it's a good amount of thought shoved into two paragraphs. but i'm prepared to try and fill in the gaps if there are some found. everything here should be taken as lightly as possible, as not to offend. i just very much like a  good discussion.
fred

i ahvent smoked that much, but i do remember the times i have that if felt like meditaton was just calling me. i do remember how paranoid it can make you though. especially doing something new like raising energy and working on your third eye. marijuana is used on a regualr basis by various poeple to aid in meditation. if you insist on using it, maybe meditating  and raising energy w/out  for a while would be a better start. until you were completely comfortable w/ everything.
fred

i do recall reading somewehre that it wasnt possible to close these centers, and that some people were mislead into thinking it was. im not sure if it was ad or one of carlos' books where i read it. i do remember reading about closing centers in another book. if you dont find anything specifically i'll try and find the book and write down exactly how it read but, for the most part i believe it was just common sense. just feel them closing as we feel them opening. i know this is vague but i recall reading text on this and this is the idea taht i got from it. gl
fred

this is just from my personal exp, which isnt very much right now. i've found that quieting the mind can sometimes be detrimental to projecting. while it's easier to fall asleep when you let your thoughts wander, it's easier to project when your not focusing so much on projecting. the less thought you ahve running through your mind, the less likely you are to be focusing on the presence of your physical body. i've found that unless you can completely clear your mind of thoughts that it's better to have something to concentrate on ie the breath awareness.  if you can completely clear your mind of thoughts then i believe this is the way to go. but if you can almost clear your mind of thoughts, chances are, included in those thoughts are going to be thoughts of not having any thoughts. i hope this makes sense. i believe the idea is to let go as much as you can w/out falling asleep. it's easier to do this if you are focusing on something. the breath awareness is a good tek. as w/ everything it takes a little getting used to. you can substitute it w/ almost anything you feel comfortable w/ . a mantra or a visualization will also work. if you are set on completely clearing your mind, i believe meditation would be the way to go . gl

i believe it's akashic, and from what i remember you can access anything you want to. there a good section on it in ad. i think about that place when i'm meditating. when i feel as though i'm an accomplished projector, i'm going to try accessing that place. out of pure curiousity i'd like to find out who stole mycar a few years back. there will be no retaliation, i'd just like to know.
fred

wow.. thats a good trick.  i'd feel like a piece of poop if i did it though. i would end up beating some other people out of their spot.


feel like a piece of poop-get paid for my posts....feel like a piece of poop-get paid for my posts...i'll have to meditate on it. >)

i believe i remember robert saying sometime somewhere that it should take about 25 min. start to finish. it will definetly vary person to person though.
fred

down comforters are great.  i went through many different positions trying to find the right one to project from, one of the best ones was just me lying on top of one of those, no pillow.  it kinda sucks you in.
fred

welcome to the forum. it's amazing that you can remember anything from that age. i find that when i am mediatating i can recall things from my childhood, but nothing from that long ago.

this is the place you want to be if you have any questions regarding anything having to do w/ oobe's. spend a few hours looking around and doing searches on things that you have questions about. there is enough information on here to keep you busy for days. anything you dont find out about i'm sure will be answered by someone here. gl w/ everything
fred

i agree that it's a personal choice, and probably better as such. i believe that i've made love before and i would also rather every sexual experience i had be that.  i wasnt trying to talk anyone in or out or anything. i just thought that this would be an appropriate place to let that out, so that it could be argued. here maybe is some more to think about. this is not my opinion.. im not sure i have one.. but i very much like discussing things. especially ones that can be so controversial. my friends are all the same way.. if you would see us interact you would swear that we were fighting.  it's just fun to take up the other side to see what comes out of it.

the astral sex from waht i gather isn't love making. i see it as entertainment instead of making love.  i definetly could be wrong about this.  would it be accepted or even likely to be entertained that astral sex should be seperate from love making sex, and that one doesnt necessarily taint the other, in any way?  should or could astral sex be compared to going bowling or something a little more close like a physical massage, in the sense that you are interacting w/ someone else and enjoying the time you are spending together?  if the two participants are anonymous to each other, and both are enjoying themselves, and both return home to their loving spouse, then would that be alright?


even if you are a happily married one man type of woman, or vice versa, these physical urges still manifest themselves in some way or another. maybe not for everyone. i believe that there can be people out there that don't think about anyone else but the person they are w/. obviously they will be excluded from this. the rest of us though, i believe, still will have these urges, content or not w/ our current situation. i believe it's been proven that repressing feelings is unhealthy. would it be better to vent in the astral?


about the foundations of relationships today...if the monagomy isnt agreed upon at one point or another, then would it be plausible that it would make the relationship stronger instead of being detrimental to it?

again, i'm trying to word this delicately by questioning all of these opinions rather than stating them, so as not to open myself up to a barrage of opposing arguments. these are meant for excersizing the mind and maybe opening it up some too. i'm not sure where i stand on any of this. i do realize taht i may be the only one taking up this side though, which i kinda like
*sigh* ok bring it on.
fred

i couldnt resist an excuse to add another post to my name.  gold member here i come.

projecting from the dreamstate is fairly easy from waht i remember. usually the exit sensations aren't the same or they are omitted. the advice about the waking hour practice is right on. also maybe you would want to try reminding yourself to try and project as soon as you see that cat or whatever. this may bypass the emotional drawback that causes you to lose lucidity in a dream. it's kinda hard at first to keep your emotions neutral when you realize what's going on. i suggest using a stabilizing tek as soon as you realize that you are dreaming/projecting. looking at your hands would be great if you were dreaming. gl fred

i havent cked out that ruiz guy, however remaining aware during sleep is extremely difficult. it takes years and some vigorous dedication most of the time. i actually have never heard of anyone being able to do it fast. i believe that the tibetan buddhists, that are capable of doing so, remain aware throughout the night. they claim to do this by keepiong their mind clear the entire time and if they are thinking about anything at all it's a focus object to keep their consciousness at a certain spot until they are developed enough to do w/out the object. they claim to dream lucidly, and when it comes time to stop dreaming they just remain in pure awareness until the next dream sequence occurs.  trying the above excersizes will probably be suffucient enough. however, this will be a sure shot but will require dedication and hard work. i'm sure you'd be able to find out more information on the net.
gl w/ it.  happy projecting.
fred

i'm going to try and summarize this as much as i can.  i wonder, or used to alot, about the whole relationship deal that we have going on here on earth.  i wonder if it's an instinct that we have to want to spend forever w/ someone and want to not have a want to be w/ someone else during that time.  i dont believe it's natural or healthy.  

i understand that we are way above the evolutionary line compared to all of the other animals we have here, however, most of the other ones just mate and move on.  i wonder if the jealousy thing never would have gotten started, and if we were told from the beginning that relationships as we have today were not the way to go, would things be different.. i believe this is something to really think about.  

sex feels good. it's natural to want to do it. it's natural to be promiscuous. especialy w/ numerous people.  i believe that the majority of the population would agree to this.  and the ones that don't would change their mind if they actually thought all of this the whole way through themselves and dismissed everything they've been taught.


not too much actually bothers me, nothign ever really has.  i credit it to a pure understanding that i think i hold.  if we all agree to the above, and we all want the person who we are w/ to be happy, then i think it would be natural to understand what makes the other happy and for us to want them to do whatever made them happy. setting aside disease related issues.  if there were no diseases and nothing phsycially detrimental about behaving promiscuously,  then what would be the problem in having sex w/ everyone that you wanted?  

i know most people would say that it was just wrong or something similar, but why?

i've been jealous before. i know how it feels and how overpowering it's influence can be. jealousy can probably move mountains too. i believe i'm past that stage now and am just at a pure understanding stage instead.  it's been tested w/ an ex gf of mine w/ certain situations.  i'm not saying i'm great or even right, but i do think that it's possible that this is right.

i believe that if you want to fully understand something that you should break it down ... all the way to the bare blocks that the foundation is built upon.  i believe that if you break jealousy down all the way you'll see that the foundation that it's built upon is illusory.  it doesnt exist.  we made the whole thing up. i understand that it would be very hard to convince someone that  has been conditioned to think otherwise, to change their minds now.  i don't feel that is a valid enough reason for it to still go on.

maybe this is comparable to a cigarette poster or something where it shows you that if you keep doing this thing that is nothing but counter-productive, it's only going to lead to bad things.  the poster is understood by everyone and it's point well taken. for whatever the reason,  a smoker goes right back to smoking after have been shown this.

i myself am borderline in beliving  that sex is extremely special and actually lean towards that it should only be shared w/ someone that you hold very high in your eyes. even if this were the way to be, what would be said if  the same feelings that are present when someone is held high in your eyes, were shared w/ 5 others. all genuine.  i say this instead of someone you love because love is such a big word and this would open up a very big can of worms. everyone has their own idea of love.

i believe this jealousy bit holds true in all cases.  if we were as understanding as we could be, then wouldnt it make more sense to be genuinely happy for someone instead of the latter in any situation?

i'm kinda tired and dont have a very good closing for this post but the point is there to be argued i believe.
fred

being awake when it' s happening is definetly spectacular, like you said.  the actual transition that takes place when you project is something that opens you right up.  any doubts you've had about anything like this just get tossed.  it's a life altering experience, for the better i believe.

you have the right attitude w/ wanting to take it slowly and do everything perfectly.  this can't be stressed enough for optimum development.

changing your meditation session is something that i think occurs naturally when you find out about something like this.  i changed mine when i read ad.  at first i pretty much stopped doing it altogether because i was so interested in projecting.  i was probably rushing things at first but i learned to slow it down. eventually i just incorporated my meditation into the trance and energy work.  i suggest giving this a shot if you think it would suit you.  there are many different types of meditation. i've found that the one where you keep your mind clear of all thoughts, or at least try to, has been my favorite to go along w/ my practices. if you've had any success in doing this it will fit right in to the trance state.  if you havent done this type of meditation,  maybe you should ck it out.  holding your mind completely clear of any thoughts is extremely difficult. it took me months just to be able to keep it clear for more than four or five seconds. usually the thing that would break the emptyness would be me noting that i was doing it.  it's actually kinda funny when you get to that point cause you know that you are doing it and you know that you don't have to note it.  right after that is you noting that you didnt note that you were doing it.  it's a visciously ironic chain that you have to break through in order to be able to abide in that calmness.  i'm up to about 30-40 seconds on average w/out thought. in one of carlos' books i believe he wrote that don juan relayed to him that everyone has their own personal time threshold that they must cross in order to be able to abide in that calmness indefinetly. whether it be thirty seconds or three minutes or ten. everyone is different and w/ effort you can reach your threshold and when you do you'll be able to abide in that, w/out effort.  it is very difficult though. the feeling you get when you accomplish this even for ten seconds is amazing. i believe it's ineffable and that's why there are so many buddhist analogies that seem to contradict themself. for example, my favorite one is one they use to describe that exact state that you are in when there is no thought, no thinker, no effort to accomplish it, they say that it's 'like light illuminating itself'.  pure awareness is what comes to mind. my whole point of brining this up was to tell you from my own personal experience how much this 'feeling' amplifies when you are in a good trance state. it literally feels like you disappear into nothingness and you  no longer exist. it's bliss. any attempt to describe it doesnt do it justice.

also meditations on love are very strong when you are in a good trance state because you can work on energizing your heart chakra, which i believe makes it all the more visceral.

you being able to feel or hear any type of vibration in less then thirty seconds is impressive. all of this w/out the use of ad is also very impressive. you may have a real knack for this. hopefully when you receive ad you read through it and your development sky rockets

there won't be any doubt in your mind once you  are accomplished at this. validity won't be a problem and as soon as you do validate the experience, your mind will rest a little easier and you will be able to concentrate on flying through walls instead i've done some research on writings and people who are in opposition of the validity of oobe's.  there is one that comes to mind at www.lucidity.com which has a text written by someone.. i cant remember his name right now, but i believe the person who wrote it was a very intelligent person, maybe did some research for lucid dreaming.  this person is convinced that oobe's are actually lucid dreams and has some good points to support his own experiences.  they were obviously enough to convince him that the experiences that he has had ( which include a large amt of lucid dreams .. well over a thousand and numerous oobe's)  were actually  ld's.  i don't comdemn him or his opinions.  this is just the way the experiences he had were perceived.   it's always good to x reference and get some good opposing thoughts.  after you find that your experience surpasses all of their tests or criticism, it makes it all the better.

i always liked coke better myself.

here is something fun that i accidentally found out about.  the energy that you mentioned flowing through you while you were in bed is something is covered in ad.  it's a very awesome feeling.  i've found that the more energy i get flowing through my body, the more the person sleeping next to me twitches.  i've had the oppurtunity to do this w/ two different people.  both of them girls who are close friends of mine.  one of them woke up once when i was doing it.  coulda been she was just ready to wake up .. could have been not.  also if you focus as much as you can on your hand while it's placed on a part of someones body, especially someone that's sleeping because they are more relaxed and open to this sort of thing, that parts of their body will react very well.

it's possible that the endless maze of colors you were experiencing were one of the gateways to the planes.  they can be filled w/ color and the tubelike structured ones, i've found, don't have an end. some of them are black and white and some of them have amazing color in them. i've experienced ones w/ music playing in them. they are very fun.  it's similar to an endless roller coaster. gl
fred

what position do you take to fall asleep? after you stop trying to project due to your breathing, what position do you take then? you obviosly have to get comfortable enough w/ your breathing to fall asleep. next time you do, pay close attention to your breathing. be careful though, i've found that the more i pay attention to something the less relaxed i am. i believe it's best to be right on the verge of sleep and just kind of aware of what's going on instead of focusing on it. gl. fred

nevermind this response too.

congrats on your development.  vibrations are a sign that you were close. i've been at phases that i thought were close, only to realize there is more to go than i thought. but the vibes are a very good sign.

ordering ad was the best thing you could have done. read it a few times . really. the goal of the book, however, is for a conscious exit projection w/out breaking consciousness. falling asleep and waking to part of the projection process is easy but risky if you are putting some effort and time into doing energy and trance work. you may find that you do all of this work and you dont wake up more than half of the time.  there are a fair amount of cases on here that show people doing exactly what you've done and how they plan on keeping it that way. it definetly works, but the certainty of projection is unpredictable.

i'm not trying to talk you out of doing what you have planned. by all means, experiment. it's one of the best things for development. keep in mind though that the book you are about to receive is aimed at conscious projection, which has not been easy for me and has been very frustrating for others.  i would say that learning what's in the book is easy. i would say that being able to ap when you want is very difficult. of course everyone will vary here. some people take to it quicker than others. while others have been practicing for years w/ no success.  

do not let this deter you. anything that's worth this much effort is usually well worth it. if you have any problems, stick em up here and we'll take care of them. good luck projecting.
fred

if you do some searching on "stuck at projection" you might come up w/ some good results. usually if you are stuck like that it means you arent relaxed enough. even if you think you are there is a chance you are tensing up unintentionally and not to your knowledge. i believe also that if all of your chakras are not opened you won't be able to project. some relaxation tek's should help you out.

i've read of painful projection attempts if your physical isnt totally relaxed. you could even be tensed in areas that dont seem tense. maybe spend some more time relaxing or gettng into a deeper trance. usually it's your back or neck area that's tense w/out you knowing it. some people actually fall asleep w/out gettin totally relaxed. so dont think that just because you lay there for half an hour you are totaly relaxed. you've got to do the relaxation techniques.

happy projecting

congrats on your development. it's events like this that give you the confidence boost you need at this stage to stick w/ it . after a while most people tend to start to back off w/ their expectations. also the practices will start to become mechanical, and frustrating, instead of fun and meaningful like they should be.  happy projecting.

i'm not sure i full understand what you are describing. if you could give a more detailed description it may give me more insight. you could be on the verge of a WILD. which would be someting that some people on here would love to hear more about, especially in the dreaming forum. they are very hard to be able to induce. i've tried various times w/ no success.

it's interesting how you snap bacck to consciousness when you move your eyes though. they are supposed to be able to move w/out disturbing any states  at all. i believe it's those and the muscles to keep you breathing that are supposed to be able to move freely, whether we're dreaming or not, or in any altered state, w/out disrupting what's going on.