90-Day Trial: Achieve an Out of Body Experience

[personalreality]

I thought it might be fun to try to do the 90 day guide again.

but alas, i lack the motivation to stick to it.  i got through day 1 and quit.  lol 

[CFTraveler]

If you decide you want to try again I'll be happy to assist provided you stick to it.

[michaelsaganski]

If I understand what is happening to you correctly when you try exit techniques given by Robert it is as if you actually "bring yourself more to the surface", i.e. the technique seems more "external" than the meditation you are doing. Correct me if I'm wrong (it's difficult to understand these things via writing).

If that's the case, yes, you are doing something wrong. Try to keep the silenced, inward feeling you have when you meditate while doing the exit techniques. Don't let you "raise up" from that feeling. I say "raise" because it actually feels as if you are "stepping up" from a more internalized status.

Probably when you do exit techniques you associate the effort with the physical body without understanding it, sort of like moving the lips while reading. This is often the case at beginning, especially when exists a strong feeling (many times not conscious) that the self is intimately associated with the body, and especially with seemingly "physical" efforts techniques (as it is point-shift or rope). Mantras helps a lot in this case, as going high in Pranayama. Also, if problems of these sorts persists, do some of the exercises in the writing I told you, specifically trying to "feel" the "astral" body arms and legs moving while keeping still the physical body, they helps a lot to disassociate the two when you do those techniques.

Remember that also if you think that you are better doing something else that it's closer to your nature, it is actually a very good thing that you are confronting yourself with these troubles. They are extremely useful to overcome or you will never be able to produce a full awareness of the "other" body and it will always be a little intermingled with the physical. So, redouble your efforts, and also if you think that what you are doing is not close to your nature, do it with all your will just for that. It will be of immense help for you in future (and also in what you are trying to achieve).

Yes that's exactly it! The exercises (the way I do them anyways) end up bringing my awareness back in tune with my physical body. What I understand from what you're saying is that I should be able to keep going "inward" in my meditative state while also trying to separate from my physical body.

Some of what you say is a little beyond me at this point. The "writings" you refer to is the Golden Dawn link you sent me before?

I'll work on bringing the two together.

[AstralBeginnings]

I thought it might be fun to try to do the 90 day guide again.

but alas, i lack the motivation to stick to it.  i got through day 1 and quit.  lol  

I know what you mean.  I bought MAP and was excited to try.  But I personally cannot motivate myself to stick to it for 90 days.  I also feel that everything in the book could be done in 30 days.  In one way, I like that RB has slowed it down to allow people more time, but on the same note, it actually feels like he is dragging it out.  Whether or not an OBE happens using his methods in 90 days or even a year is irrelevant as this will depend largely on the person,  the point for me is that the whole process seems drawn out too much.

[michaelsaganski]

I know what you mean.  I bought MAP and was excited to try.  But I personally cannot motivate myself to stick to it for 90 days.  I also feel that everything in the book could be done in 30 days.  In one way, I like that RB has slowed it down to allow people more time, but on the same note, it actually feels like he is dragging it out.  Whether or not an OBE happens using his methods in 90 days or even a year is irrelevant as this will depend largely on the person,  the point for me is that the whole process seems drawn out too much.

It is a bit, I agree. But on the other hand I adore it because if you just drop all the pre-analysis and just go for it... then you'll be making progress. For me I didn't really know what to do because there's so many different guru's/protocols/aspects to this stuff. I just wanted a blueprint that I could read, practice and just see what happens! The 90 days is really more of a way to help build up a habit of a spiritual practice. It's not like you'll stop doing the exercises after the 90 days... or even 30 if you meet early success.

[Selea]

Yes that's exactly it! The exercises (the way I do them anyways) end up bringing my awareness back in tune with my physical body.

The act of fully transferring the consciousness in the "other" body is a personal mental trick that for some people (usually accustomed to long years of meditation, above all on mantra and pranayama work, or for precedent achievements) comes natural an easy, while for some other (the majority of people) is a lot of pain. What happens is that when you think about your self you usually tie it with your physical body, so when you try to do something resembling "physical" activity mentally you tend to think of your physical.

Since working on mantras or pranayama will require months of practice before you can clearly understand that You is not really your physical body, I suggest you to do a thing that always work at beginning. When you do the techniques do them while watching yourself doing them. If you consider closely what you do when you daydream you will see for example that when you do something "physical" there you always "see" yourself doing acts, either if it's you doing them. This is what you must do. The "you" that you see doing the actions doesn't need (and on the contrary is worser at beginning) to be detailed; a silhouette is all that you need. The most important part is "feeling" that you are doing the action while you watch "you" doing them.

When you are proficient on doing the actions watching yourself doing them then work on merging with the "figure". Do it in steps. While it can seems complicate to describe in practice it's quite easy. Just for example now bring to memory you doing an action. You will see that you can actually see your body doing it while you do the same. This is what you must do at beginning. When you can do this easily, then put yourself inside the "you" (the figure) doing the actions and do them in first person. If your concentration and willpower are good you will either find, to your surprise, that after some attempts you'll be in the figure automatically at a point, doing the actions in first person.

You will see that looking at yourself doing the actions will not bring you out of your meditative state. Persist on doing this and one day you will be able to act in that "other" body indipendently and slip in it as you can wear a dress. When you will be able to do this you will not need any "technique" at all (the techniques are used only as a mental "spring" to put your consciousness in the "other" body, simulating actions mentally transfer slowly the consciousness to it). For this I said to you that also if you think that this way of doing it doesn't pertain to your nature, it is very good training: actually is one of (if not) the best.

The most complete thing you can do in that "other" body as a training to fully transfer the consciousness to it, at beginning, it is the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram. The beauty of this ritual when done in that "other" body is that it requires you to make the "other" body turn around (the most delicate and powerful step to transfer consciousness happens when you turn 180 or 270 degrees, from your physical position, in the "other" body), do gestures etc. This is a great tool if used well and constantly.

What I understand from what you're saying is that I should be able to keep going "inward" in my meditative state while also trying to separate from my physical body.

Yes, you should keep the meditative state while doing the action. As I've explained just now however it is too difficult for the majority of people mentally doing physical actions in first person without merging them with the physical body, they have to work on steps. Do what I said and you should have no problems after a while.

Some of what you say is a little beyond me at this point. The "writings" you refer to is the Golden Dawn link you sent me before?

I'll work on bringing the two together.

Yes, I was referring to them. Those instructions do just what I said. They actually make you split your etheric from your physical body so that you can do things in one without confusion it with the other. However doing the LBRP in the "other" body is the best way of bringing consciousness to it, in my experience.

Best regards,
Selea

[michaelsaganski]

So Selea, if I understand correctly, this is what you want me to do:

Instead of visualizing/feeling myself climb the rope in the first person, visualize/feel it in the third person. This will help keep me in a meditative state because I won't associate the feeling with my physical body as much. Then once I am accustomed to that I will eventually be able to "slip" my consciousness into it.

[Xanth]

So Selea, if I understand correctly, this is what you want me to do:

Instead of visualizing/feeling myself climb the rope in the first person, visualize/feel it in the third person. This will help keep me in a meditative state because I won't associate the feeling with my physical body as much. Then once I am accustomed to that I will eventually be able to "slip" my consciousness into it.

That, is the very act of phasing. 

~Ryan

[Selea]

So Selea, if I understand correctly, this is what you want me to do:

Instead of visualizing/feeling myself climb the rope in the first person, visualize/feel it in the third person. This will help keep me in a meditative state because I won't associate the feeling with my physical body as much. Then once I am accustomed to that I will eventually be able to "slip" my consciousness into it.

Yes, exactly.

Btw, I have asked if I could give you a particular technique very effective that we use with beginners. It has been told me that there are no problems, so I will share this with you. For what I know this is one of the most powerful methods to make a person "feel" the "Body of Light".

Begin relaxing as you do normally, and focus your mind (we do this with the fourfould breath, but you can do it the way you want, just try to have the less internal chatter as possible).

Focus now on a ball of light 5-6 cm. above your head. With each inalation, bring the light in your head (so that all your head is filled with light), keep it there while you hold your breath, and finally imagine it becoming brighter as you exhale. Keep pulling more light down into yourself until all your body is filled with light. At the end you should have a "Body of Light" around your physical body (if you do the exercise well you can will "see" the body clearly in the end). Do this step slowly. At first it takes at least 30 minutes to do the circuit fully, but when you will be proficient with it you could do it fast, the will alone will suffice to call up the Body of Light immediately. Don't skip this step, it is very important, do it throughly and slowly.

The next step is to feel this Body of Light to expand with each inhalation and contract with each exhalation. This sensation, once achieved, will help you become aware of this "other" body in a very particular way. It will begin to take on a physical, fluid-like existence. Performing this part will, in fact, solidify the Body of Light. The act of keeping mental constructs in motion is one of the most powerfuls in all magical practices (keep this in mind also for future practices).

When you actually feel as if you are surrounded by a "second skin" you will have succeeded. If you want then you can try to transfer the consciousness to this "other" body. With the "feel" you have it will be much easier than before.

This exercise is very powerful. Also if you don't succeed at the first attempts you will be able to begin perceiving also at the start how the "astral" body feels, so that you will be more able in future to bring up its memory to transfer the consciousness in it. Everytime you do it the sensation of the "other" body will arise, until it will look to you as "real" as the physical body. Transfering the consciousness then will be only a matter of experimentation on what works best for you.

I gave you this exercise because you, as all beginners, have problems on knowing what the "other" body feels like, so it is very difficult to transfer the consciousness on something you don't neither know what it feels like. The only parameter you have is the physical body, so it is clear that if you try to "feel" another body you will try to simulate the physical. This, however, will obviously keep your consciousness in this plane. A thought-form (as the astral body) has a definite "sensation" that only those that have succeeded in "leaving the physical" know and have memory of (less with those that utilize dream methods, but a little knowledge it is still there). When you will know a bit the feeling all you will have to do will be to "see" a figure resembling yourself in front of you and utilize that "feeling" to feel yourself inside the figure. The transfer of consciousness then becomes much much easier. When you have understood how the "other" body feels like there's no need to utilize the technique no more since it is a bit awkward for projection only.

Best regards,
Selea.

[michaelsaganski]

Yes, exactly.

Btw, I have asked if I could give you a particular technique very effective that we use. It has been told me that there are no problems, so I will share this with you. For what I know this is one of the most powerful methods to awaken the "Body of Light".

Begin relaxing as you do normally, and focus your mind (we do this with the fourfould breath, but you can do it the way you want, just try to have the less internal chatter as possible).

Focus now on a ball of light 5-6 cm. above your head. With each inalation, bring the light in your head (so that all your head is filled with light), keep it there while you hold your breath, and finally imagine it becoming brighter as you exhale. Keep pulling more light down into yourself until all your body is filled with light. At the end you should have a "Body of Light" around your physical body (if you do the exercise well you can will "see" the body clearly in the end). Do this step slowly. At first it takes at least 30 minutes to do the circuit fully, but when you will be proficient with it you could do it fast, the will alone will suffice to call up the Body of Light immediately. Don't skip this step, it is very important, do it throughly and slowly.

The next step is to feel this Body of Light to expand with each inhalation and contract with each exhalation. This sensation, once achieved, will help you become aware of this "other" body in a very particular way. It will begin to take on a physical, fluid-like existence. Performing this part will, in fact, solidify the Body of Light. The act of keeping mental constructs in motion is one of the most powerfuls in all magical practices (keep this in mind also for future practices).

When you actually feel as if you are surrounded by a "second skin" pretend that your consciousness is no more controlling your physical body but this "other" one, look at one of your Body of Light arms and try to free it from its physical counterpart. Remember that you move the astral counterpart not with muscles, but with will. Just "will" to move the "astral" arm. When you can "feel" it (as we have done in the precedent step) it is much easier than it seems to.

Move it up to your face and try to move the fingers. Do this slowly. When you can do it then the transfer of consciousness is complete. Try to raise now with your Body of Light. You should have no problems.

This exercise is very powerful. Also if you don't succeed at the first attempts you will be able to clearly perceive how the "astral" body feels, so that you will be more able in future to bring up its memory to tranfer the consciousness in it. Everytime you do it the sensation of the "other" body will arise, until it will look to you as "real" as the physical body. Transfering the consciousness then will be only a matter of experimentation on what works best for you.

Best regards,
Selea.

Who is we?

And again, I assume you mean this should be visualized in the third person, not the first. Then at some point I should begin to feel the "second skin" (astral body) you mention.

[Selea]

Who is we?

And again, I assume you mean this should be visualized in the third person, not the first. Then at some point I should begin to feel the "second skin" (astral body) you mention.

Yes, to "see" something you have to do it externally, isn't it?

Anyway I edited a bit the post, skip the part of using the technique for projection, it is best used only to "feel" the body for future reference (see the last paragraph I added.

As for the "we" is the magickal order I'm int, you curious boy

EDIT: Btw, if it is too difficult at first to expand and contract all the Body of Light, just focus on a point, for example the right hand, and become accustomed to the feeling there, then do the same and exand to all the body.

[michaelsaganski]

Yes, to "see" something you have to do it externally, isn't it?

Yes and No. It's external but I could visualize a ball of light coming down into my field of view. Or I could visualize from a point outside the body, watching the ball of light enter the body. I believe you are saying the latter. At some point though I should go from looking at my astral body to actually feeling the sensations, even though the astral body is visualized externally.. it's still in my mind (thought-form) which is a part of me.

I've been doing all the exit techniques in the 1st person, that could have been a mistake as well. This whole 1st/3rd person thing has been a confusing point for me. This can get complicated!

Anyway I edited a bit the post, skip the part of using the technique for projection, it is best used only to "feel" the body for future reference (see the last paragraph I added.

As for the "we" is the magickal order I'm int, you curious boy

EDIT: Btw, if it is too difficult at first to expand and contract all the Body of Light, just focus on a point, for example the right hand, and become accustomed to the feeling there, then do the same and exand to all the body.

The notion of how something "feels" is something that Bruce Moen talks about a lot.

I am curious indeed. I've been looking for a support group to help me grow spiritually.

[Selea]

Yes and No. It's external but I could visualize a ball of light coming down into my field of view. Or I could visualize from a point outside the body, watching the ball of light enter the body. I believe you are saying the latter. At some point though I should go from looking at my astral body to actually feeling the sensations, even though the astral body is visualized externally.. it's still in my mind (thought-form) which is a part of me.

I've been doing all the exit techniques in the 1st person, that could have been a mistake as well. This whole 1st/3rd person thing has been a confusing point for me. This can get complicated!

I see. You are complicating too much things. Do the exercise as you want, the answer to how to do a thing is to just do it without thinking about what is right or wrong.

I talked to you about 3d view only because you have a problem with merging the physical with the mental. However the technique I've given you it's only to "feel" the astral body, so you can do it however you want.

What I've told you is NOT an imposition on how to do things, not the right way to do them. It is only a mean to become separating the physical from the non-physical at first. Don't become confused with it. I told you to watch yourself doing things while you do them because it's the most natural way to do it at first for the majority of people. As I said, try now for example to envision in your mind yourself doing whatever activity. You will see that you aren't doing them in first person, usually (consider this carefully, "see" what is the most natural way to do a physical action mentally, then do the same, this is in little words what I told you). You must go with the flow at beginning, after you modify the flow to what you want (or better the flow modifies by itself if you fully surrender to it). Remember that the subconscious opens only by love, the more you force the more you obtain the effect contrary. So, just as I said, the only right way to do a thing is just doing it.

The notion of how something "feels" is something that Bruce Moen talks about a lot.

Obvious. Experience is much more important than words. There are things that cannot be explained properly (or not at all) with language, the only way to understand is to experience them. Take for example the "feeling" of the "other" body. Would you be able to explain with words to someone what your own physical body feels like? The same is true for trying to transfer the consciousness in the "other" body. This, btw, it's one of the motives why many great authors talks very little about how it is done, they tell you what to do, but not how to do it or what you should "feel" or not. Words complicates instead of simplifing. The only way you can do it is to experience it for yourself so that you have a start point.

I am curious indeed. I've been looking for a support group to help me grow spiritually.

It's something that everybody in some way seeks, yet you are always alone in things that really counts. It is true that sharing experiences and having a teacher can help, but true work is done alone, never forget it. When I was very young I joined the OTO thinking that they would teach me everything and opens me the path. I didn't learn anything at all. I expected others to do work for me. The group I was with was just like me. We were young and totally deluded. It took a bit for me to understand it. Apart talking and acting as grandeur know-all (tooking others' words for granted) we didn't do anything at all, we just waited for something that never came.

You don't need nobody else but you and your experience until a point, the only motive why to join a "group" is for something that doesn't really pertain to teachings. In past years this was not the case because knowledge was transferred orally, but nowadays if you seek you will find easily. I tell you this because for many people a "teacher" or a "group" is only another excuse to don't do things. They pass from a cult to another at the first difficulty and you can see it also in AP. Many people begin a certain "way" to do it and then after only some tries they pass to another one, thinking that what they did was not "right". They just go on in circles and don't really do anything at all in the end. A real teacher is not one that really "teach" but someone that tells you go to on when everything seems to not work and that brings you down when you think you already know everything. Apart from this (and making you do things that are contrary to your nature to equilibrate you, apart some more advanced things as the current you are in that doesn't mean anything at all at beginning) believing in someone or something by itself (without knowing it for yourself) is the greater mistake you can do.

So, also if this seems a controsense, you can take as a teacher also somebody that doesn't know anything at all. What you need is only discipline and a regime, this is the most important part also if people think the contrary. Some of the best physical trainers are neither athletes for examples.

[michaelsaganski]

Ok, thanks for that Selea.

I do have the problem of over-thinking things. So I'll just keep practicing regularly.

[michaelsaganski]

OBE/Astral Projection Trial Day 90!

Well here it is... day 90! It's a little melodramatic because I haven't been following the program to a T the last few weeks. I'm also not going to be making any drastic adjustments now either; the 90 days has been an evolutionary process.

My practice has basically evolved into 2 meditation sessions: one in the morning, and the other in the evening. I avoid eating anything at least an hour before, as well as drinking anything other than water. I find a shower in the morning helps wake me up, otherwise I'm not awake enough yet and fall asleep too easily. I seem to get better results sitting up instead of lying down. I generally start off with some breathing exercises for relaxation, followed by some forms of energy work (body awareness). I then clear my mind with the use of a mantra, and may either stay with it or attempt an exit technique. If anyone wants more specifics feel free to ask me.

My sessions don't seem to be as productive as they were a few weeks ago either, I think I've hit a bit of a dip... which is natural from what I've heard from other people who meditate regularly. The important thing is to meditate through the slump, taking a few days off as a break just makes things worse. I've found some free local meditation classes which is helping me stay inspired and motivated. I've also officially registered for the Gateway Voyage at TMI in August, which I'm super excited for.

While I haven't had a full blown OBE yet, I'm not discouraged. In fact I now know that I have opened the door to a life-long spiritual practice for me that will only get better with time. Several of my core beliefs have been modified or rebuilt, and I feel like a different person from the inside. I also feel like I understand myself and my place "in the universe" a lot more, it's like I'm more self-aware of my thoughts, feelings, and motivations. I opened myself up to my intuition, which I've never done before... and am starting to identify the information I get from it instead of ignoring it.

One new abnormal event that's happened to me that hasn't been mentioned yet is I've experienced the ability of parallel thinking. That is, I've actually been able to think two thoughts at once while in a meditative state. It basically happened by accident, since I was actually trying to clear my mind but had lost my grip on the mantra. The thing is, my mantra was still going and yet I was also perceiving/interpreting images in my mind's eye. I then became self-aware of both my focus on the mantra as well as the interpretation of the images.. after a short while they both stopped as I broke both trains of thought.

As far as the actual OBE exit techniques, a problem with my process had been identified to me. The reason I wasn't liking the exit techniques and why they seemed to pull me out of the meditative state was because I had associated the technique with my physical body. As I would focus on the technique, my awareness of my physical body would increase. So instead of going deeper "inward", I was coming back "outward" to my body. I have to thank Selea for this. The solution to this appears to be focusing on visualization... associate the exit technique with a visualized body... not my own. Theoretically at some point I should be able to shift my point of consciousness into that imaginary thought-form by "feeling" for it. Wow.. that sounds vague to me even as I write it but at my current state of spiritual knowledge I believe it to be possible.

I also had a little bit of confusion with visualization because I thought it had to be in the 1st person.. but really 3rd person is ok and is actually more natural.

I'll continue to post my progress and any major trials/events. My ultimate goal has changed into more than just having an OBE, it's about evolving and understanding my consciousness as much as possible. The experiences I read about excite me to no end. Where this will go, I'm not sure yet. I'm playing with the idea of developing my psychic/intuitive powers to the point of being able to help others. I think that would be pretty cool.

Thanks for reading my posts and I give a special thanks to everyone that has provided feedback. It was of immense help to my progress.

[Selea]

My sessions don't seem to be as productive as they were a few weeks ago either, I think I've hit a bit of a dip... which is natural from what I've heard from other people who meditate regularly. The important thing is to meditate through the slump, taking a few days off as a break just makes things worse. I've found some free local meditation classes which is helping me stay inspired and motivated. I've also officially registered for the Gateway Voyage at TMI in August, which I'm super excited for.

This happens to everybody, don't worry. A problem that many people have when they first try to do OBEs without having done nothing (or almost) before and try to reach that goal is that they focus their mind on the wrong things. Don't worry about exiting, worry about the meditation, if you do it right and you learn how the meditate properly (having 100% concentration and losing really in what you are doing) exiting the body becomes a trivial task.

Usually a course of study is really necessary before being able to exit the body voluntarily. People that doesn't do this can still exit the body, but the results are random. This is for the motive that they didn't actually master the steps that bring about the practice. A musicist doesn't learn a piano concert at first, he exercise on single notes, then a group of them, and so on. He constructs a base of working that when acquired will enable him to do everything easily. This is the best way to approach these things.

I suggest you for example to take a look at Liber HHH part AAA of Crowley (google it). You will see that the meditation is closely related to the body. Now, also if it's not really an OBE meditation you can clearly understand that for a person that can do the same easily exiting the body is as easy as a child's play.

This is to say to you to focus primarly on the means, not the end, this last will come by itself.

One new abnormal event that's happened to me that hasn't been mentioned yet is I've experienced the ability of parallel thinking. That is, I've actually been able to think two thoughts at once while in a meditative state. It basically happened by accident, since I was actually trying to clear my mind but had lost my grip on the mantra. The thing is, my mantra was still going and yet I was also perceiving/interpreting images in my mind's eye. I then became self-aware of both my focus on the mantra as well as the interpretation of the images.. after a short while they both stopped as I broke both trains of thought.

This is normal. The first stage of a mantra requires all attention, and many exchange the first stage for the last, in fact. In the second the mantra continues almost by its own will and you can still think also if on a different level. The third stage is acquired when the mantra loses all its meaning but it still shields all thoughts. This part is when the mantra ceases to exist altogheter and the mind becomes totally blank.

As far as the actual OBE exit techniques, a problem with my process had been identified to me. The reason I wasn't liking the exit techniques and why they seemed to pull me out of the meditative state was because I had associated the technique with my physical body. As I would focus on the technique, my awareness of my physical body would increase. So instead of going deeper "inward", I was coming back "outward" to my body. I have to thank Selea for this. The solution to this appears to be focusing on visualization... associate the exit technique with a visualized body... not my own. Theoretically at some point I should be able to shift my point of consciousness into that imaginary thought-form by "feeling" for it. Wow.. that sounds vague to me even as I write it but at my current state of spiritual knowledge I believe it to be possible.

Also in this case you have these sort of problems (as have all people that do these things without proper training first) because you are accustomed to associate yourself to your physical body, as I've said. For example in Liber O (where Crowley talks about Astral Projection) he says clearly that an absolute control of God-forms is essential before being able to create the Body of Light. This is natural. A God-form enable you to focus solely on that image enveloping your body to the exclusion of all else. There is a point in the discipline when this "form" actually exists on its own, as real as it is your physical body (and this last doesn't exists no more, your consciousness is in the "form"). When you have learned this the Body of Light is easy to create. Without, it's a pain.

Naturally there are sidesteps to overcome this lack of knowledge. One is what I told you to do. The act of creating a duplicate of your body to see in 3d view actually "trick" the mind (after a bit of practice) to follow the same, till you find "inside" the same (it mimicks a bit the assumption of a God-form). Another is explained in the document I linked you, where you actually begin separating all body and astral parts one at a time. The most powerful, however, remains mastering God-forms, for various reasons.

Naturally, then (and I will not lie to you), there are also some "tricks" that can be teached, however sadly these are only doable in person, because you have to watch the student doing the thing "astrally". Crowley insisted many times that he could make a person "go out" either at the first try. This seems to being the case in many circumnstances also in my experience. However these "tricks" are only to let a student really understand some points that were already within him/her, in reality they serves only to really make learn the student that he can surely do it. Many times this "fear of success" (or doubt that you cannot do it) is present in almost everyone. The "tricks" removes the same, and when this is out of the equation (also if it is difficult to believe) the rest is much easier.

I'll continue to post my progress and any major trials/events. My ultimate goal has changed into more than just having an OBE, it's about evolving and understanding my consciousness as much as possible.

This is really good. It is a sign of your real progress. Also if you can think that your end has not come, on the contrary you have learned something that it's much more useful. Doing work without lust for result. When you completely learn this, along with the methods of working all becomes easy.

Best regards,
Selea

[MuVoVuM]

This has been a very interesting and thought-provoking account to follow! Thanks for your candid insights, and please keep us posted about your progress and epiphanies.

[WASD]

I agree with MuVoVuM I've been following this thread since you started it!

[michaelsaganski]

I've been sharpening my meditation with the help of some free classes and gaining a better conceptual understanding of the non-physical from the books I'm reading. It's all very exciting stuff to me right now, but progress is a little slower than I'd like!

The third book in Bruce Moen's series is so crazy, and it aligns well with Todd Campbell's "My Big Toe"... I'm getting a pretty big conceptual picture of reality. It feels intuitively true, but I want to experience it firsthand. I also recently read "Eat, Pray, Love" for fun, which gave me another perspective on my spiritual growth.

I swear I was extremely close to leaving my body yesterday.. I lost all feeling in my body... almost attaining a sort of "point consciousness". For whatever reason my eyes naturally opened (or was it astral sight? I couldn't tell), and all I could feel was warmth and energy. It was the deepest disconnection with my physical body I've felt thus far.

[michaelsaganski]

Well I got back from TMI (The Monroe Institute) a couple weeks ago. It's taken me a while to get some free time and to really understand any sort of permanent changes their Gateway Voyage program left on me. It was an amazing week of self-discovery, exploration, experience, and development.

In a nutshell I came wanting to learn more about consciousness and subjective experience (and maybe have an OBE too!). While I didn't have a pure OBE, I did come away with much more than I expected. I do have a deeper understanding of how I am more than my physical body (consciousness). I am more aware, happy, sensitive, and caring in general, and have a modified outlook on life.

The Gateway Voyage teaches you how to attain different altered states of consciousness (what they call Focus 10, 12, 15, and 21) with the help of Hemi-Sync. Attaining these states during the program was surprisingly easy. Some people might also know that Bob Monroe termed this shifting between altered states as phasing. Phasing is a whole lot easier to do and is more gradual than trying to just attain an OBE. I think it's because phasing allows you to be open to any sort of non-physical perception, instead of expecting for XYZ to occur in an OBE.

Conscious experience is very subjective and there is quite a variety of ways to experience the focus levels. That's why if you believe you want to have an OBE just like one you've read, you'll likely end up blocking any sort of non-physical perception that isn't what you're expecting. It's much better to just be open to what comes to you. That's one of the biggest things I learned at the Gateway Voyage, and it's why I've dropped the goal of "having an OBE" for something more general and expansive.

My non-physical perceptions were varied between visions, feelings, and the occasional sense of "knowing". I should be clear that these visions came to me in my mind's eye (so I didn't see it through my physical eyes), and I'd sometimes have trouble figuring out whether I was actually imagining what I was seeing or if I wasn't. I'm far from mastering this, but I've also come a long way.

The exercises at the Gateway Voyage also give you plenty of tools. This gives you things to try when you're lying there in the altered state, such as receiving guidance, performing healing, remote viewing, manifestation, interacting with entities, etc. One of the best successes for me was deepening my connection with my guidance (be it a guide, helper, or whatever you want to call it). When I have a question about something going on in my life, I can usually get a yes/no answer from this guidance (it depends on the question) - which is very useful! The manifestation exercise actually ended up working for me (a specific boost in my career), and I received some positive results (not 100% accurate) with the remote viewing.

I'm not 100% sure why I'm more happy, sensitive, caring, etc. I think part of it has to do with having experiences that have showed me what an open heart *feels* like. Hemi-Sync also tends to make you use both your left-brain and your right-brain - and my right-brain has definitely been underutilized. Perhaps coming in greater alignment with my whole being has helped in some way as well.

I used to dismiss most subjective experience (i.e. lived in the left-brained objective causality of Western culture) - but there is SO much to it.. and it is directly applicable to our everyday lives.

I should also mention that another huge source of knowledge for me about all of this has come from the book "My Big Toe". This book and its author really resonate with me - I've been able to make sense of all this new age "hokum" in a logical framework that makes sense to me. It's been completely compatible with my Gateway Voyage and enhanced my understanding of it.

I will definitely be going to TMI within the next year to take another program. I'm currently debating between Heartline, Guidelines, and MC squared. My current goals are to become more loving/caring, and to enhance my non-physical perceptions by continuing to meditate everyday.

[Pauli2]

michaelsaganski: Hi, you have been working rather goal oriented to make an OBE. That's about the same I've been doing for a few months now, but with very little success. So I either lack skill, or I am doing things wrong.

Did you tell the TMI personal about your OBE attempts and did you ask them about what you possible could do more correct to succeed with an OBE? What Focus to start from, which Hemi-Sync CDs to use, etc?

Thanks for sharing with the rest of us.

[michaelsaganski]

michaelsaganski: Hi, you have been working rather goal oriented to make an OBE. That's about the same I've been doing for a few months now, but with very little success. So I either lack skill, or I am doing things wrong.

Did you tell the TMI personal about your OBE attempts and did you ask them about what you possible could do more correct to succeed with an OBE? What Focus to start from, which Hemi-Sync CDs to use, etc?

Thanks for sharing with the rest of us.

Well they sort of stressed the point that there is much more to this than just OBE. By just going for an OBE you could be blocking other kinds of experiences. But that being said, there are some specific Hemi-Sync tracks that focus on having an OBE. I believe they're in the 3rd "Gateway Experience" set (Wave 3). There's also a Hemi-Sync CD called "Journeys out of the Body" which is specifically for OBE. You can have an OBE at any focus level, although I think they generally do it on the CD's from 10 or 12.

[Pauli2]

There's also a Hemi-Sync CD called "Journeys out of the Body" which is specifically for OBE. You can have an OBE at any focus level, although I think they generally do it on the CD's from 10 or 12.

The H-S CD you mention above I could not find at the TMI homepage. Could you mean "Adventures Beyond the Body"? I have that 2 CD set. The first CD didn't seem to produce so much effect, but I might be a poor subject. The second CD (Power of 7) seems to create some kind of prolonged experience, possibly of F 10 (fake numbness, feeling of lifting into air).

Do you prefer any specific H-S CD at you current stage (other than the Wave III CD)?

[CFTraveler]

The complete name for it is "Hemi-Sync Support for Journeys out of the Body", and is carried by TMI and Hall of Learning.