Children of forbidden unions?

[James S]

NickJW,

And Souljah, uh, the proof that science ranks highest in the scale of truth is all around you. Seriously you people shouldn't kid yourselves. It's ok to believe what you want but you can't seriously deny scientific evidence and proof when it is right in front of your eyes.

So much harping about proof!!

"Proof is never definitive, after all; one has to begin again with each new person."
- Albert Camus

"If you believe in something, no proof is necessary. If you don't, none is sufficient."
- unknown

I know you were addressing Leyla & Souljah, but I couldn't help thinking -
what are you doing here?
No, really.
Why are you even a member of a site like this if you cannot except anything outside of what science can prove?

Aren't there sceptics forums you'd be better suited too?

Oh, wait, thats right! You do believe in phasing - as per Franks model.  
I hate to tell you this, but the "pure science" sceptics don't believe in phasing either. It too, according to "science" is mystical mumbo jumbo, and cannot be supported by proof. I believe there's another thread running about just that.

Funny thing also, if you read through all the literature available on evolution, you will see that it too is not supported by pure scientific "proof".

Science, to those who follow without question, is just as much a religion of faith as any other religion, and you appear to be falling into the same "religious" trap as many followers of the mystical beliefs that you criticise.

If you want to give something true scientific validity, providing proof that something is true is not enough. You must also provide proof that it is not false

Evolution is only a theory, nothing more. It has neither been proved or disproved.
It holds weight in the scientific community only because it is a popular theory. Any theory, when given enough technical data and made popular by the media can also be held up as "science".

James.

[Leyla]

even if one answer raises a dozen more questions.

That's exactly what happened. That's what I'm dealing with.

The slap on the hand you recieved for peeking under the covers

A clever way of putting it. Certainly that's what it felt like.

So if it was a test as you say, I passed because I picked up and re-lit the candle, placing it back on the alter. Stubborn as ever.

But I really feel I offended them. (obviously without meaning to.) But this grain of knowledge I got is very valuable. (Even though it took me about a year to realize its significance) But scary.  

(...and of course you know a piece to this story that nobody else does.)

[Souljah333]

i had fun writing a reply to nickyJ...just obvious stuff and more rope, and all that, but held of posting it till this morning, bcuz i thought i could be more concise & sweeter. this morning however i have little concern over delivering my perspective in a palatable manner, and picking up on some energy that this thread might not hold any information for me (that i'm not already well acquainted with). feeling i read something 'more' into it that's not really there.

(...but of course i know a part of the story that nobody else does.)
best of luck with it all
soul

[NickJW]

The only difference between science and religion is that science has proof while the rest is faith. By looking at fossil records it is proof that evolution occured, we don't know everything of how exactly it occured (but there are plausible theories) but we still do know that it did in fact occur. I do question some scientific biases, example phasing and other psi phenomena, but it can't be disproved and most scientist are unwilling to investigate. However, some things are plain and simplely true or not true. We can disprove things like being half angel with biology. While some mysticism can't be proven wrong or right, some can be proven wrong flat out. And many mystic beliefe systems are based on belief systems, while for I, phasing is just science which has yet to be proven.

It is not your decision to decide whether I can come here James, some people have reasonable views, while your kind are unwilling to accept truth , even when it proves without a shadow of a doubt that your theories are wrong.

[James S]

Leyla,

Stubborn as ever.

 You go girl!

Yes, and I've wondered how the story has progressed. No doubt though that you were/are on the right track.

I get the feeling you didn't offend them more than you surprised them. You're seeing something on the horizon that maybey they feel you're not ready for yet. To which I'd reply "FREE WILL! Like it or lump it fellas!!"  

NickJW,

...while for I, phasing is just science which has yet to be proven.

LOL!! I hope I'm not the only one here who can see the irony in that!
Does that mean you have faith that it will be proven?
All the sciences were born of imagination and belief.
All the prominent scientists through history had to have faith and belief, or they would never have found any of their proof.

No, it's not for me to say whether you are to be here or not. I just wonder sometimes, when you are so unaccepting of the thoughts of others, why you are?

And I've yet to see your proof of anything here being wrong at all!
But like I've said elsewhere, go for it! Find the proof!
I've been wrong before in my beliefs, so I'm definitely open to having yet more proven wrong. It helps me learn. You also might surprise yourself!

James.

[NickJW]

That is of couse assuming phasing is real, which i believe to be so since i have experienced it. Is not everything that is real technically science? Thats where i get the conclusion that it is science that has yet to be proven. Actually science starts out with noticing things not inventing ideas out of thin air. Newton noticed things which led him to his discoveries in physics, not made them up. Some how you have an emotional need to find a flaw in science, but you will be very unsuccesful.

[Leyla]

That is of couse assuming phasing is real, which i believe to be so since i have experienced it.

Funny how nothing anybody else experiences is real.

[cairnsb]

Not to be rude but all religions are just man made inventions and ideals.

Some belive in god and satan, some in the old gods like marduk and pazuzu and tiamat other belive in buda, others in goddess.

Christians are a good example - there are numerous forms of christianity and all of them belive that everyone else (even other other religions that belive in the same god) are going to a bad place.

The point I am trying to make here is everyone has their belifes, and to say that if you can do this then you must be part of something is just dead wrong.

There are powerful forces out there, and these inventions we call "gods" and "goddesses" are mere shadows or echos of the real thing.

With that being said -

I belive that science has always been slow to catch up with the "supernatural" - not too long ago our ancestors hugged each other in fear as lightning and thunder ripped across the sky - they belived the "gods" were upset.

In modern times we know that thunder and lightning is caused by charged particals in the clouds that bind together to form a static charge. You don't see masses of people screaming in fear from the thunder - now days they know it is not some all powerful being that is mad but rather a natural event that we can understand.

As far as OOBEs are concerned, we are till in fear of them, don't understand them, or just flat out don't know they exist.

Some day in the future we will have hard scientific proof of the astral, and of course when we do more and more religious belifes will be dispelled.

If you feel it nessasary to flame me for the rant about religions, thats fine - but remeber I do not belive what you belive - so in the end I really won't care  

[Stookie]

That is of couse assuming phasing is real, which i believe to be so since i have experienced it. Is not everything that is real technically science? Thats where i get the conclusion that it is science that has yet to be proven. Actually science starts out with noticing things not inventing ideas out of thin air. Newton noticed things which led him to his discoveries in physics, not made them up. Some how you have an emotional need to find a flaw in science, but you will be very unsuccesful.

There is no way that science as you speak of it could ever prove phasing. It's a non-physical thing, in the non-physical universe, and a physical instrument could never record anything of it, only how it effects the physical. Like said, it's personal "experience" that matters. That's scientific proof in the astral.

It's kind of silly to me to say "hey, your non-physical experiences aren't real, because I haven't experienced them, but mine are the definite article, I just can't prove them to you."

Both science and religion have held humanity back in the search for real explanations. Maybe it's time to discard both. The answer is never going to be in front of your physical eyes.

The physical world is Maya, and that can only be understood through experience.

[Leyla]

cairnsb- If you feel it nessasary to insult me for the post about angels/spirit guides, thats fine - but remeber I have met the entities you don't belive in - so in the end I really won't care.

[cairnsb]

I was not insulting you - but I am kind of glad I did.

Because that was one of my points...religion tends to send people off the deep end faster then anything else, not to mention that it also makes them assume certain things without knowing any of the facts.

Just because I do not belive them to be "angels" does not mean that they do not exist.

But the act of calling them "angels" or "demons" attaches a certain stigma to them.

For example if I tell you I had a 4 hour conversation with a "deamon" you would get a mental image that I was sitting there with some bat winged monster that wanted nothing more then my enternal damnation.

When in fact I am a computer guy and "deamon" is slang for a network server - but because the word looks and sounds like "demon" people automaticaly assume certain things based off their own belifes... even when the two subjects have nothing to do with each other, the impulse to prejudge the topic based off their religious belifes is too strong to ignore.

When it comes to OOBEs and things of that nature I think (like Robert Monroe) people should remain as open and objective as possible - just because it is a "pretty being made of light" does not mean it wants to help you in any way - more to the point it may actually want to eat you instead  

The other point I wanted to make is that saying everyone that can OOBE (basically every living creature) is part angel is very offensive to people that do not belive in god and angels and such things... not to mention terrifying if you think about it from the perspective of non-christians... little hindu girl gets out of her body only to get a firm beating by a few angels that happened to be in the area and wanted to put the word of god into her.

So in short - before you start labeling things and saying they are "angelic" or "demonic" maybe - just maybe ask them who they are, and then ask them to prove it - after all it might be something that just wants to play with your mind  

[jay dawg]

all im saying is people dont GENERALLY think those lights in the night sky are angels or DEMONDS anymore. we pretty much know they are balls of gas, in this day and age.

all things which are unknown to man lead to superstition or science.

[NickJW]

You claiming to be half angel is not an experience Leyla, it's a false assumption.

[MindFreak]

You know demon actually means a spirit. Its nothing evil at all.

[James S]

Your absolutely correct Mindfreak.

The word Demon originated from the Latin Daemon which simply means "spirit". Its only been later christian translations that have translated it as "unclean spirit", or deofol in Old English,  feend or deuil in in Middle English. I'm sure you can see what became of those words.

As to the usage of the word with computers, it apparently originated in 1963 with the early developmnet of IBM systems. DAEMON is an acronym for Disk And Executive MONitor. Mosts systems today, including Windows still make use of Daemons to monitor processes.

I love the polar opposites here!
On one side we have the religions so fearful of demons taking us over, and on the other, the computer industry where daemons work for us!  


James.

[Leyla]

NickJW- You are a liar. I never made any such claim. I did not write the Mesopotamian texts or the book of Enoch.

I said that angels appeared. (Because they did.) I said one of them told me "We have seen and heard enough." (Because it did.) And that one of them knocked over a candle (Because it did.)

[NickJW]

Well in that case, why are you saying I am critising your beliefs. I am only giving a different opinion on you rclaim to be half angel. You told me I was in the wrong because I said that you weren't.

[cairnsb]

Ok all we are saying is this...

Is it possible that instead of angels it was a few bored demons (not the computer kind) that decided to mess with your head?

[James S]

Ok all we are saying is this...

Is it possible that instead of angels it was a few bored demons (not the computer kind) that decided to mess with your head?

There are distinct differences in the energies of angels to those of other spirits that people with experience here can easily pick.

Leylay's an experienced clairvoyant. She's worked with enough different spirits to tell who's who. More devious spirits can fake their apperences, but they can't fake their energies.

I mention this because I've been in that situation too.


James.

[cairnsb]

Ok all we are saying is this...

Is it possible that instead of angels it was a few bored demons (not the computer kind) that decided to mess with your head?

There are distinct differences in the energies of angels to those of other spirits that people with experience here can easily pick.

Leylay's an experienced clairvoyant. She's worked with enough different spirits to tell who's who. More devious spirits can fake their apperences, but they can't fake their energies.

I mention this because I've been in that situation too.


James.

Good and evil - a common theme in all religions and belife systems.
The problem is... who is good and who is evil - it is all a matter of perspective.

As for the faking energy - nothing is impossible  

[James S]

Hi cairnsb,

Oh absolutely it's a matter of perspective! You'll not get a dissagreement from me there. I also agree about the whole religious "good / evil" thing.

For me it all comes back to that rather important little "know thyself" thingy. Getting that happening, and getting the own intuition bit happening too, not only sets up the basis for comparison, it sets up the ability to test the spirits. Thats why I say you can always sense the energies.
Still, worst a deceptive spirit can do is to lull you into a false sense of security so you ignore the little alarm bells that go off.

God, you can feel such a git when you realise that's happened!  :wall:

Still, I can only answer that for me, not for Leyla... which... is probably exactly what I appear to be doing. DOH!
I do know she has experience in this area, but I guess I should leave her to tell you what that is.   :silence:


James.

[Leyla]

I don't see the point in trying to convince you of the validity of my experience. You already have your mind made up that the texts have to be wrong.

Yet, you cannot supply any proof they are wrong, other than to say they were written by ancients and everybody knows how dumb the ancients were, bowing down to rocks and such.  

If that's the best you can do, I'm going with the ancients, because I'm sure they have to be smarter than you.

[phantoms_rose]

Hey sweetie

I have interacted with Light and Shadow angel beings for a very long time consciously. From my understanding, the "fallen" angel beings, the Watchers, who are of the path of Shadow (which is not utterly negative by nature) either were asked to diversify the human gene pool with their "input" (hehe) or they decided themselves to do so. In either case, somewhere along the lines a certain faction of beings which most seem to agree was headed by yahweh, got their panties in a bunch and didnt like that Humans were being given "awareness" outside of the primal vibration.

To bring it down to Laymans terms, think about a group of scientists that discovers chimpanzees actually have the capacity to evolve into a humanoid state of being and awareness. One group of scientists decides that the chimpanzees should be used for their (the scientists) own advancement...as slaves basically. One group of scientists disagrees (rather vehemently) and thinks the chimpanzees should be given a chance at evolving into their own fully (with a little help as needed) because they have displayed signs of self awareness which means the Soul inhabiting the body is also aware. Both sides end up fighting.

Now take that concept and apply it to Humans. Given that there is a whole testament talking about yahweh in the Bible, one would reasonably assume that the bible was written through the point of view that would further yahweh's goals (to use us as slaves). This is made even more clear when you see the tawdry glow the Watchers are cast in. Put two and two together doll. The Watchers came here to help us but because of the rise of "organized religions" which ironically TELL us what to believe, centuries upon centuries of negativity have been heaped on the Watchers just because these religions say theyre bad...ew yuck. All that negative energy must be a pretty big burden.

Um, I'd be pretty mad too, to say the least. Wouldnt you? Trying to help a group of beings that hate you because a book(s) tell them to? I'd need a huge mega bottle of Acetaminophen to begin with!, hehe.

And, of course, just like Humans would in the same circumstances, there must inevitably be a few of the Watchers that think to themselves, "Why are we trying so hard to help and save these people when they wont even take the time to see our point of view? Let them save themselves!" These would be the more frustrated energies you encounter, reasonably speaking.

And, going along those lines, just like Humans would in the same circumstances, there must inevitably be a few of the "angels of yahweh" who think to themselves, "You know....treating these Humans like our slave race really isnt that nice of a thing to do.....why am I taking orders blindly? I think helping the Humans would be the right thing to do."

So...there is no clear cut black and white. Its all gray. Just like with us. Humans, even banded together for a collective cause, retain their individual beliefs and thoughts and motives. What makes you think these angels are different?


....What you did was beautiful, by the way. Youre thinking outside the box. Dont let the "grumpy" Watchers get ya down. Give them a break, sweetie, all that blind hatred being thrown towards them is a heavy load to carry.

:Love Light and Peace:

Corie