Hell(2)

[desert-rat]

I thought this was worthy of a more serious post .   I read in a book many years ago with a tittle some thing like " astral realms" .  The author discribed areas of the astral where people would go after life .   In one part people had created for them selfs the kind of things they had when alive, homes  ,banks , schools , shopping centers , ect , a kind of living in denial .   There was an area where people had created a real hell , they believed in hell so strongly , and believed that should be there that where they went . We all create our own hell      desert rat 

[Xanth]

Do a search on the forums for "BST" or "Belief System Territories"  (Belief System Territory).

It's one concept/idea courtesy of Robert Monroe that "could" explain that.

[catmeow]

Hi desert -rat, yes it's definitely worth a more serious post. I've been looking at NDEs quite a lot and about 1 in 4 NDErs describe going to a hellish area. These areas seem to be pretty awful, but they are populated by other people who seem to enjoy hurting, taunting etc. These are IMO belief system areas, absolutely real, and really unpleasant. In the accounts I have read, the NDEr tends to get rescued by a being of light, or else a plea to God will result in a rescue. The areas are very real, and considered to be in the "lower" astral realms, somewhere between the "black void" (3D blackness) and the more pleasant BSTs.

Until I started researching NDES I didn't really take hell that seriously. But I think we have to. Similarly, my notion of God was a kind of universal oneness from which we all emerged and would eventually return. But having read many many NDE accounts, it is clear that we need to take hell very seriously, as well as understanding that a God of pure love most certainly does exist. The alternative is to assume that all of these thousands of NDErs were somehow hallucinating the same types of experience.. Not just that but hallucinating whilst brain dead.

Since I'm with Sir William  barrett when he said that "Whatever a man asserts from his own experience is always worth listening to, but whatever a man, in his ignorance, denies, is never worth a moment's attention", I have to take NDE accounts at face value. I won't just ignorantly deny them.

[CFTraveler]

Can you say "Bardo"?  Or BST?  It describes the experiences of hell, it's not a dismissal.

[catmeow]

Can you say "Bardo"?  Or BST?  It describes the experiences of hell, it's not a dismissal.

I'm very unclear on the use of the word bardo. It seems to relate to the concept of an intermediate stage usually between death and reincarnation. I think we might be able to use the terms bardo and BST interchangeably. Don't know...

[CFTraveler]

I'm very unclear on the use of the word bardo. It seems to relate to the concept of an intermediate stage usually between death and reincarnation. I think we might be able to use the terms bardo and BST interchangeably. Don't know...

Yes, the BST would be a part or stage of the Bardo state.  Just giving familiar markers.

[desert-rat]

I was not able to find the bst forum .   From what I remember from Robert Monroe's books , he did not really adress hell .  What he did find was some info that was given to him on why the earth was set up , to make loosh . Not ever one that has read this believes we are to make loosh .   The book I was refering to was a small book on the astral realms . I dont know if the author really went to these realms or just wrote on them . desert rat

[Xanth]

I was not able to find the bst forum .   From what I remember from Robert Monroe's books , he did not really adress hell .  What he did find was some info that was given to him on why the earth was set up , to make loosh . Not ever one that has read this believes we are to make loosh .   The book I was refering to was a small book on the astral realms . I dont know if the author really went to these realms or just wrote on them . desert rat

He did address "hell".  When he referred to his concept of the Belief System Territories.

I believe he speaks about it in his final book, "Ultimate Journeys". 

His concept of "Loosh" came out of his second book, "Far Journeys".  After that book, the concept was never really heard of again.

Ginny (an older member) posted this which describes the BST pretty well:

The BST--Belief System Territories--are an endless number of worlds in the afterlife usually involving a group of people who share common beliefs (everything from religious beliefs to you name it) and desires. The only way to go to one of these worlds, once dying, is to be in possession of a particular belief/desire which you strongly, passionately identify with...any belief that will resonate with the energies of a particular BST world. And these places were created by humans and their beliefs. The only reason I was initially introduced to some of these worlds, by Helpers, was because I was interested in retrieving.

In Focus Model terms... it's Focus 24, 25 and 26

Some good posts to read about BSTs:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/about_belief_system_territories_frank-t4553.0.html
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/a_retrieval_in_the_belief_system_territories-t2856.0.html
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/party_town_in_the_belief_system_terrirtories-t6063.0.html
(( For those three links, the first post is actually the LAST post of the thread ))

[desert-rat]

I had not heard of belief system territories before , but it was what I was trying to discribe .   Areas of the astral created by the beliefs of thoes who dwelt there .    From the Christan heaven to the North American Indain happy hunting ground , and other after life areas . Most of the people that have written on the astral have said about the same thing .   A lower astral realm , hell for thoes who believe they belong there .   On Robert Monroe , its been many years since I read his books .   I have heard even tho he left the phy. in 1995 he is still running the Monroe inst.  desert rat

[sqprx]

The areas are very real, and considered to be in the "lower" astral realms, somewhere between the "black void" (3D blackness) and the more pleasant BSTs.

Hi Catmeow
Can you please explain "black void"? Never heard of it before

[Contenteo]

I am jumping in.

Black void is one of my least liked terms because it is so misinterpretable.

I mean even an F10 could seem like the black void if you are new to this stuff.

Here's some context. When you pop out of your body and are in a soft area that looks like your house, etc. That is f21

traditionaly Black void was F18, the heart stage, but to get to a true black void, it's getting to a mature heart stage. Something that is only reached in wake induced OBE's It's like a F21 and for all purposes can be considered an F21 experience, just instead of being in a 'world' you are literally floating in blackness.

because it was wake induced, you are much more aware.

This exit to the 3DB is not for beginnings.

If you havn't got a good F10 or f12 or even for that matter a drowsy exit, 3db is something you needn't concern yourself with at the moment. Understanding will come in time.

Cheers,
Contenteo

[sqprx]

I am jumping in.

Black void is one of my least liked terms because it is so misinterpretable.

I mean even an F10 could seem like the black void if you are new to this stuff.

Here's some context. When you pop out of your body and are in a soft area that looks like your house, etc. That is f21

traditionaly Black void was F18, the heart stage, but to get to a true black void, it's getting to a mature heart stage. Something that is only reached in wake induced OBE's It's like a F21 and for all purposes can be considered an F21 experience, just instead of being in a 'world' you are literally floating in blackness.

because it was wake induced, you are much more aware.

This exit to the 3DB is not for beginnings.

If you havn't got a good F10 or f12 or even for that matter a drowsy exit, 3db is something you needn't concern yourself with at the moment. Understanding will come in time.

Cheers,
Contenteo

Thanks for reply Contenteo

Maybe you can explain these F areas and what do they mean, cause I'm really new to this stuff. Or share a link where it's all laid out

[Xanth]

Thanks for reply Contenteo

Maybe you can explain these F areas and what do they mean, cause I'm really new to this stuff. Or share a link where it's all laid out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_level

[catmeow]

Hi Catmeow
Can you please explain "black void"? Never heard of it before

Sure. The term is common in NDE studies. Typically an NDEr (an "experiencer") will experience something like

1. Hovering above physical observing activity around it (completely accurately)
2. Shift to a black void
3. See pinprick of white light which becomes bigger
4. Travel into the light, possibly through a tunnel.
5. Meeting with being of light and/or deceased loved ones
6. Life review
7. Expanded knowledge of all things, purpose of life, the meaning of your own life.
8. Possibly a quick "look" at the belief system territories you are destined for when you die (always extremely pleasant)
9. Told "it's not your time"
10. Rapid return to the physical body.

This is by no means the full list, and some people experience only some of these features.

The Black Void (BV) is quite commonly reported. in NDEs. It is an area of absolute nothingness, infinite in size. It sometimes has a very comforting feeling to it, but obviously it can be quite frightening. The NDE community uses the term Black Void (BV) whilst the OOB community uses the term 3D Blackness (3DB) for what I assume to be the same thing.

The BV is considered to be the closest realm to the physical world. It is a stepping stone to the higher astral realms and BSTs. The next level from the BV is the lower astral, what we think of as the hell territories. Above this are the more pleasant BSTs. I suppose the tunnel motif might allow you to travel through the hellish lower astral to the pleasanter higher areas safely and easily.

Hope this makes sense!

[Killa Rican]

People used to think Heaven was in the sky, and hell in the center of the earth. There really just the higher realms and the lower realms stripped of any religious context. Heaven, Hell, whatever you call it, they exist independently for it's own purpose, question is if that's the "final" destination for any individual? Some of them would like for us to believe this.

[Bweep06]

There has to be consequences for actions. Therefore an hell has to exist. Atleast that's what I think, otherwise I would not be holding back my cynical views from people. In general I'm an extremely dark person, but I also believe that actions = consquence/karma. If you don't pay the price here, you will pay it soon. Though I do not think its possible to condemn yourself for all eternity.

[Xanth]

There has to be consequences for actions. Therefore an hell has to exist. Atleast that's what I think, otherwise I would not be holding back my cynical views from people. In general I'm an extremely dark person, but I also believe that actions = consquence/karma. If you don't pay the price here, you will pay it soon. Though I do not think its possible to condemn yourself for all eternity.

Why?

[CFTraveler]

There has to be consequences for actions.

I agree in theory, but the idea of hell as a permanent state/place is not a a balanced consequence for a temporal action, so it doesn't fulfill the rule.  So if there is a hell realm (and I think there is, I just don't call it that- I prefer belief system territory or 'place for working out your issues') it has to balance the action.   I also do not see 'punishment' as any logical consequence, because error should be corrected, punishment just adds to the negative karma and perpetuates the dance, in terms of action-> reaction aka Karma.

[Maucrii]

*Second Hand Story Alert*

Okay, my girlfriend is a pretty frequent astral traveler. She tells me many stories about her astral traveling mainly because they are highly interesting to me. Here are the two times she was in "Hell."

The first time she was dropped off in a giant castle ontop of a mountain of Hell. She was wondering around and came up upon a pretty... Crazy... Maid. The maid didn't know what she was doing there but carried on with her business, but told her not to touch anything. Being the person she is, she went to read a tapestry which made the maid angry. She simply replied she'd do whatever the cuss she wanted.

Second time to Hell, she was in a lower part full of many people suffocating to death on smoke... Just minus the dying. She didn't suffocate on the smoke, let alone feel the burn of the fire, but she could smell it.
Along came a guard... I guess you could call it. It was wondering why she wasn't "dying," and even tried to kill her, all to no luck. She just laughed at him and continued on.

[Contenteo]

This is easy. It's all astral projection guys.
Hell is what you make it.

If you die with a terribly skewed view of the world, then these terrible array of intentions will manifest the surrounding of your F22 experience when you 'die'. It's going to suck.

Why do you think there is a large scale consensus of get dragged into retrieval missions? Why do you think each witness defines it as  'some poor soul living in a self created 'hell''; Which, in each account, ends when they are told to truth about what has happened. Being dismal and unhappy is a constraint of the physical, not the nonphysical. Even unhappiness has been proven many times as a chemical imbalance in the body.

However if you are good in your lifetime then whatever you have built for yourself will be your surroundings.
I say, better yet, project now, know whats going on, then guess what? when you die, you find your way to BSTs better.
Honestly, when I die, I am going to go chill around all the BSTs for a good bit, that sounds awesome!

Nothing is more powerful then intent on this realm. We even see this in the tenets of Christianity. I mean, how effective would confession be if we actually used it properly. Everyone's goin to heaven.

So, yeah, it sucks, in this way, terrorist bombers do get their 72 virgins. Yup. But the only way to do it is to die with a completely clean conscious and a focused intent. And even then. I don't think that would totally save you from the 20 something or however many "souls" you just killed intents. It's a pretty good system nature has worked out for us.


Cheers,
Contenteo

[CFTraveler]

This is easy. It's all astral projection guys.
Hell is what you make it.

If you die with a terribly skewed view of the world, then these terrible array of intentions will manifest the surrounding of your F22 experience when you 'die'. It's going to suck.

Why do you think there is a large scale consensus of get dragged into retrieval missions? Why do you think them all define some poor soul living in a self created 'hell'. Which, in each account, ends when they are told to truth about what has happened. Being dismal and unhappy is a constraint of the physical, not the nonphysical. Even unhappiness has been proven many times as a chemical imbalance in the body.

However if you are good in your lifetime then whatever you have built for yourself will be your surroundings. I say, better yet, kinda know whats going on, you find your way to BSTs of better.
Honestly, when I die, I am going to go chill around all the BSTs for a good bit, that sounds awesome!

Nothing is more powerful then intent on this realm. We even see this in the tenets of Christianity. I mean, how effective would confession be if we actually used it properly. Everyone's goin to heaven.

So, yeah, it sucks, in this way, terrorist bombers do get their 72 virgins. Yup. But the only way to do it is to die with a completely clean conscious and a focused intent. And even then. I don't think that would totally save you from the 20 something or however many "souls" you just killed intents. It's a pretty good system nature has worked out for us.

Cheers,
Contenteo

Great post, Contenteo.
People tend to see events on the surface- actions and outwardly apparent consequences- but the stuff that is happening inward to make those happen are more complex than that, and should figure on the after death experience- and, according to many experiencers, do.  So, I'd say, that if the reports are accurate, the system is in balance, appearances to the contrary.

[Stookie_]

Your outside world is a reflection of your inner world. Physical and astral.