Near-death study Dr sam parnia

[donnie]

I remember see you and nurse doing this it was all so clear. Can you describe crash cart next to me.It was in the room to next to me Yes. As clear as day. Could you tell me what it look like yes. What about the big picture on it.?
Yes i can. What was the picture.? It was a bike. Or no i can't. So then it's a real or false.

3 year's there looked at 2500.heart attack cardiac arrest. Only 20% will say they had a NDE. The 500 who had a NED beetween 80 & 142. will say they  remember being above there body's And looking down The images. Pictures have been set up for that.? And when interviewed will be asked what they remember. That's all it is. If it's not a false memory. If a NED is a real memory then the picture's should of be seen. So what will prove or diss prove this. That's all it is.

[Bedeekin]

NDEs are a real memory... or there would be nothing to remember.

But... if ONE person gets it right.. does this mean that it is real... to you

Would this satisfy the scientific community?

If TWO people get it right... is this proof?

Now... say you are involved in this situation... yet there is NO NDE... you were part of the 80%... would you believe that NDEs are 'real'?

[donnie]

They could be a dream. OMG That's why they have set this up. See the picture it's real. Don't see the picture it's a dream. Get it.?

[Bedeekin]

No I clearly don't.

I have had a almost a lifes worth of Out of Body Experiences... many are similar to the 'being out of body' bit reported during NDEs... so really... I am seeing it from a totally different perspective than you.

We are both tinkling against the wind.

*EDIT*

lol tinklng? I meant urinating. That pretty much ruins a very good 'saying'... lame

[donnie]

 80 & 142. will say they  remember being above there body's And looking down The images. Pictures. Parnia is going to publish all his results.

[donnie]

Ok prove it.?

[Bedeekin]

Absolutely NOT!! 

[donnie]

Got to back up up.? And when some try's to. All you go on about is sightedness of science. WTF

[Bedeekin]

lol

You take the biscuit... I don't understand half of that last message.

How can I prove to you that I have had an OOBE?

[donnie]

Bedeekin Stop trollin no my post.

[Bedeekin]

This isn't trolling... Trolling isn't disagreeing... trolling is where someone just says anything to annoy a GROUP... not a single person.

You obviously aren't interested in this subject nor have you any intention of being interested.

I have tried to point your question in a direction that ACTUALLY means something within the context of this forum.

I listed some links for you to actually get some knowledge on the subject. Neither have you listened to anyone else.

I'm done.

[desert-rat]

To Donnie , it would be my guess that you are either a kid , some one that likes to argue , or on drugs .  The near death experiences are worth discussing .  Too many people  have had them and got info that could not have been faked .  No one is trolling you .  desert rat 

[David Warner]

To everyone.....

Let us discuss this nicely and not play the prove it to me card. If NDE wasn't valid and was dismissed as
a facade we wouldn't be here discussing this post...

Between science and religion, out of body consciousness there is so much to this for study, time, and patience to consider. Three years is not enough and I believe honestly (even if) science proves NDE's are real you will still have the debates and arguments.

It all sides in the one who has experienced the OBE or NDE that authorizes the legitimacy for their own knowing. Still the experiencer should test, research, and judge from all angles after the experience.

From all I know and I have been at this for over 25+ years now that there is definitely something out there that and we do continue on.

Please review site: http://www.nderf.org/  and read the NDE accounts.

I encourage you to challenge everything in the NDE'rs experience but also to ask yourself personally. Did I experience this? In other words, remember your first kiss? What was the experience like? For some fireworks, others
the world shake, maybe nothing felt.  We all feel different towards experiences *however* looking at the consistencies in the NDE experiences - this gives a lot of weight towards validation.....

All the best and please be kind to each other. We all are driving at the truth and want to learn. In that, we can
learn from each other...

Dave

[Bedeekin]

Between science and religion, out of body consciousness there is so much to this for study, time, and patience to consider. Three years is not enough and I believe honestly (even if) science proves NDE's are real you will still have the debates and arguments.

Absolutely.

It won't satisfy those who haven't had a conscious experience during near death.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
The answer to this dilemma is simple.
Donnie, learn the art.
To see this for yourself done in a way suitable and mentored step by step.
Your mind will wake to an experience that opens up everything.
Experience the wider reality for yourself. You will undeniably have your answer and truth.
Are you interested?

[David Warner]

This thread is not a pick on Donnie or who's right/wrong..

What it is about is being open to discussion, kind and respecting each other's beliefs and values.

Like I said earlier in my post - we can throw all the theories, scientific explanations at OBE NDE but
still it is in the experience and credibility of consistencies of the one who does take the time
to research and first hand experience. 

Donnie - I don't know your background or research that you have done on the subject of NDE or OBE. Have
you ever experienced any of this? Please look at it this way too. You go to college, graduate and are educated. Have the big diploma sitting on your wall of graduating. But you don't have the experience and consistencies
of research, validations of the business world. So w/o the experience and only have book smarts, we can't go any further til you have done the work yourself. Also, you can't dismiss it quick in three years when this has been a on-going study, research for decades...

I do believe science is getting closer to realizing that survival after death is legitimate and it will be proven. However, you will still have debates and arguments.

Thank You,

Dave

[catmeow]

Sam Parnia's new book on this research comes out in Feb 2013. I have no doubt he is withholding his results until he has sold a few copies of his new book. Shame, because we have been waiting for the results for a couple of years now.

[desert-rat]

To be 100% fair the doctors should of told people that were part of this study , during a hart attack or before an operation that there was a sine some where with a mesage on it . If they do go out of body read it, and remember what it states .  desert rat 

[Lionheart]

To be 100% fair the doctors should of told people that were part of this study , during a hart attack or before an operation that there was a sine some where with a mesage on it . If they do go out of body read it, and remember what it states .  desert rat 

During a Heart Attack the last thing a person is going to be concerned with is trying to look at a card in a room. They are experiencing extreme trauma and would most likely not be thinking rationally. It's better if they reported something strange or unique when it was unexpected. That way it's easier for the doctor to verify a real experience. But, there has to be a better way to verify than just using a card on a higher shelf, etc. Maybe they should try smiley faces on the tops of their surgeon caps. Make it fun! 

[Bedeekin]

I still think it is a totally redundant test.

Parnia means well and it will be interesting what he reveals... but it won't prove a damn thing. If 1 or 20 people get it right... there will still be those who didn't have a conscious NDE who won't believe.

[majour ka]

At 18 hospitals in the U.S. and U.K., researchers have suspended pictures, face up, from the ceilings in emergency-care areas. The reason: to test whether patients brought back to life after cardiac arrest can recall seeing the images during an out-of-body experience.

People who have these near-death experiences often describe leaving their bodies and watching themselves being resuscitated from above, but verifying such accounts is difficult. The images would be visible only to people who had done that. This study started back in oct 08 And ended in oct 12. 20% of people have a
cardiac arrest have a NDE.

I think Dr sam parnia objective & made the study bulletproof. Over the last 3 year's there looked at 2500.heart attack cardiac arrest. 20% will say they had a NDE. The 500 should see the hidden images. If not why not.? W soon find out if NDE are real or false.

Its already been done.
I think his name his name is Doctor Jeffery Long or Johnston? He is an oncologist and has collated information form several thousand accounts of NDE with his patients  and he says he has more empirical evidence to say that life exists beyond the physical form than to say that it doesn't. I have had an NDE and apart from me knowing that is what happened, I was also able to see plenty of stuff that was happening, but I ddnt stay with my body I was off and away, so I wouldn't have noticed any pictures in the hospital room, so I don't believe that the picture in the room is going to work every time, but it may....I personally dont think I would give monkeys toss about a picture of some one in the room if I had just died...just saying 

[Szaxx]

Well the test appears to be in good spirit. What I can't understand is why a doctor with a high IQ came up with a test of such nature to be comparable the one of Randi exercises? Its not in the best possible taste.
A detailed patient and doctor conversation explaining the risks and percentage survival rate of the op to start would have occured. Then a psycological assessment of their reaction would indicate further conversation into this study a good idea or not.
By saying nothing the results are immediately biased into a low probability resulting in  unusable data. You can't postulate anything as fact and figures unless stringent regulatory practises are adhered to. A doctor should know this.
Unless the reported basics are in error,  I can't  follow the results with certainty.
Is he a friend of big James?

[majour ka]

Well the test appears to be in good spirit.

I agree its great that docs are interested and want to give it a look. Im not sure this face up pics will work, but maybe someone just outa body may think what the heck do they have a picture facing up for ?? So the fact that its a oddity might draw someones attention or plain freak them out ! LOL

[Tongo]

hold on so this study has finished officially? has there actually been any sort of official site or something else declaring their results or findings? seems no one knows for sure what the results even were.

[catmeow]

The study finished at least a year ago. we have been waiting for Sam Parnia's results for all that time. He keeps pushing the release date back. As I said, he has written a new book based on this study and that will be released in Feb 2013. I think Parnia is sympathetic to NDEs. But as I recall, the new book is about explaining how consciousness can occur during zero blood flow conditions, rather than whether we survive physical death. From that I am guessing the test results showed that (1) Not many or any people identified the cards but (2) there were cases of heightened lucid consciousness during cardiac arrest which require explaining.