Who has talked about OBE/AP with friends, etc?

[Jeff_Mash]

quote:Originally posted by Nagual

Jeff, maybe you could rent a video like "Vanilla Sky" or "Waking Life" and watch it together...  Then, you'd have to talk about it.  And, who knows, maybe she's been APing for years! []

Hehe, well, my wife watches movies like that and goes, "I don't get it!"  Then I try and explain and she says, "Too much information.  My head is going to explode!"

Although......she DID like "What Dreams May Come," and out of all the movies I have ever seen, that one comes the closest to explaining OBE's in my opinion.  Since this movie is on my Christmas list, I think I will watch it again with her, just so it can be fresh in her mind.

She also liked the movie "Ghost" and I think I can use that as a good example too.  Thanks for the idea of using movies to help break the ice.

[The Bard]

All my life I grew up in a situation where it was fine to talk about OBE's with my mother and her college friends. My mom would take me to "Silva Mind control" classes and now I naturally fall into trances without trying and sometimes at inappropriate times. I can't drive because of that.

When I entered the real world as a young adult I was slapped down by groups of friends for speaking to freely of those things. It never stopped me back then. Now that I am older I am more considerate of the people whom I talk with.I stay on safe subjects and try not to push my beliefs but sometimes I will mention things about my experiences with the astral world that has scared people off. In a forum called "Worlds End" I upset some people by speaking to freely about my experiences. This past year I find I bite my tongue more. Not everyone is ready to experience or know about OBE's.

I feel blessed that my husband does believe. He has encountered some of my astral friendlies.

[unconscious sound]

Wow! I sure got everyone talking, didn't I? Here's a few more things I would like to say on the matter.

  If you feel like telling someone about your astral experiences, I say go ahead and do so, freely. Regardless of what you think they may already believe or know. Those of us here who have had astral experiences KNOW they are real. They are NOT beliefs. since they are known facts to us, telling someone else about them should be no more unusual than talking about a trip to France. That person may not have been to France...does that mean you should not talk about France, for fear that they may think you are making it up, and are crazy? Hmmm...i think not.

  All humans are Spirit anyways. You are not doing anything wrong by reminding others about who and what they are. Unconsciously, they already know this. You're simply reminding them by talking about it. The reason people think these things don't exist is because they have beliefs about what is real. Our beliefs are what get in the way of truth. Only knowing will allow us to go where we need to.

[The Bard]

What is fact to us is perceived as beliefs from those who never experienced what we have. I have had religious people push their beliefs on me and they view their beliefs as facts. I don't enjoy having people push me to believe something that I have never experienced and so out of respect to others I don't push them to believe what I know as fact.

I was raised by a woman who misuses her psychic abilities to manipulate others. Including her own children. I think the reason why not everyone is ready to know about the astral worlds has to do with the fact there are people who would misuse it.

[unconscious sound]

I agree that we should not push anyone to believe anything. This goes for religion, AP/OBE's, and anything else in life. All I am saying is that if you feel like talking about it with someone, I say go ahead and do it. If I say "I woke up outside of my physical body yesterday.", that does not mean I am pushing anyone to believe anything at all. That is no different than saying "Yesterday I had a bowl of Cap'n Crunch." Would saying that mean that I am trying to get that person to believe that I can truly eat, and that Cap'n Crunch cereal is real? No.

  If I tell someone about my AP expeiences, and they blow it off as some fantasy or dilusion, I simply smile and say "OK." There is absolutely no point in arguing about if it is real or not. Only direct experiences can allow us to KNOW for sure. Otherwise, everything is simply based on BELIEFS.

  For those of you that still want to bring AP up in a conversation, here is a fun way to do so:

  Let's say you are at work, and your co-worker sais "So, what did you do on your day off?"
  You can tell them, "Oh, you know, just the usual. I had an out of body experience, and hung out with some astral friends of mine."
  Now, normally, they would probably think you are a nutcake. But if you say it casually, and not with an ego, you can have alittle fun.
If they ridicule you for it, simply say "What? You mean you DON'T have OBE's? Riiiight." <---(In a sarcastic tone)
You can turn the situation around completely by making it seem like THEY are the crazy ones, and you are simply talking about a normal experience.

  I'll get flack for that one, I'm sure. But that's how I do things. I am a very blunt person, and I speak whatever is on my mind. If I am mad at someone, I make it extremely clear. If I have an opinion to express, I right there telling it away. But I would NEVER tell someone what to believe, or not believe.

[The Bard]

I understand what you're saying and I think it's great you are blunt. I use to be more blunt and free about letting people know what I think but now I live in a small tight knit town full of Christians who poisoned my pets in the past and threaten to kill my wolf. Now that I'm a mom I have learned to be more modest about my experiences. Even still, this town gets spooked by certain things like my yard ornaments and our 1963 Cadillac ambulance (that the neighbors think is a hearse). This year I have had to home school my children since their teachers treat them poorly because their family doesn't fit in with the norm around here.
I wish I felt safe enough to be more blunt like you.

[unconscious sound]

There are certain people that I have tried to talk to about these things that blow it off. My family is one of them, except for my brother. If I make an attempt, and they reject the experience, I do not pursue it further. (Unlike some people, such as religious fanatics that shove their religion down your throat.) If I were in your position, I would not feel like talking to your neighbors about it either. Some people just love using religion as a shield/barrier. You say you can OBE, it's the work of the devil to them. Hypnosis...devil, telepathy...devil. The list goes on an on. It's truly sad. However, I am very thankful and fortunate to belong to a group of friends who all either believe or know (through experience) that OBE/AP is a real phenomenon. A couple of them have had OBE's, and another had once been pulled under his bed by a pultergeist! (True story, according to him, whom I trust alot.) So, they are all familiar with non-physical realities, each in their own unique ways.

  Being able to share these experiences with others helps us learn and grow from them. Robert Bruce has done an amazing thing by creating this forum. We can all come here and tell the most far-out tales and not be seen as a complete lunatic (by most people anyways.)
Between this forum and Astral Dynamics (the book), I have learned a great deal of information about energy development and OBE's. I thank everyone who participates in this forum also. I hope to be able to come here up until the day of my final OBE.

[Dragen]

Hi all,
Very interesting views on this subject matter!  But why do you insist on telling so many people about your experiences?  This appears to be an extension of the human ego.  Really, I would like to hear your views on why you believe it is important to tell a lot of people.

I'm not just talking about telling a close friend or some family members, but a few of mentioned telling their co-workers or whoever they come across.  One thing I would like to point out is the ego and dogma.

I heard a few comments about this being the truth, and how you can't see why it hurts helping people understand about the afterlife.  This, I believe is a spiritually destructive pattern, for yourself and others.  Essentially what you are doing is pushing your beliefs on others, just as major religions do today.  You start crossing that line where you believe in it for YOURSELF, to believing other people should be aware of this "truth" you found.  This truth is unique to the individual, and should in no way be discussed with others unless asked in my opinion.  This is a new age.. the Age of Aquarius is approaching.. free thinking, less dogmatic views, less judgemental idealistic ways, less war, spiritual development; evolution; revolution.  Trying to impress your peers, or gain attention, or whatever reason is an extension of the ego.  

Please help me understand WHY it's important for you to push this on people, and if not push it on people.. why is it important for you to discuss it with them?  You know, and I know that a lot of them are probably very religous anyway.  Catholics, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Buddhists... maybe even Atheists.  What you are doing is essentially giving yourself a label.. why do you have to BE associated with anything?  Do you want attention?  Do you want others to believe you?  Do you want others to believe in the same thing as you?  Or are you angry that you feel trapped about discussing it and refuse to do supress it anymore?  

In any of those cases, I see stagnation to spiritual development.

I am really perplexed by this issue.  I know that I found something for myself.  I read books on it, I experiment with it, I attempt projection to gain answers and understanding.  I have found conclusive evidence for my being.. my all, that life after death exists.. and it's really just a beginning.  I have no need, nor desire to discuss this with anybody else as it is completely unimportant to my purpose.  Again, if somebody is truly interested in what I believe.. and are open to my experiences, then sure i'll discuss it with them.  But I cannot for the life of me see why anybody would have the desire to tell the entire world.  Because the minute you do that, you become a leader.  You put yourself on a pedastal and talk about spirituality like you have all the answers.  

For the most part, you probably do have all the answers.  For yourself.  But I staunchly stand by my belief that everybody has their own path and their own answers.  They are connected with their very own universal truth, and there is no wrong answer.  Just because they read the bible and practice dogmatic beliefs, doesn't mean they aren't connected to god in some way.  And this is coming from somebody who has never been religous.  It's taken me years of searching and understanding to learn and accept people for who they are and their beliefs.  This has always and will continue to be a difficult thing to accomplish and follow.

Though, some of you probably don't view OBE's as a spiritual thing.  I probably wont understand that myself, but if it's just a "cool experience" for you, then perhaps I wouldn't see anything wrong with trying to tell people about it.. other than making yourself look crazy!

[Mustardseed]

Hi Jeff
Just a few thoughts. I am also married and for about 1 year did not tell her or anyone. I told a Christian Minister and he dismissed it as fantasy and told me he thought I was having a subconcious desire to be someone important and was making the whole thing up.

All though I have told my wife and she believes me and is mildly interested it is also becoming a bit of a contention in our relationship. It is as if she feels a bit sort of afraid that I will just "fly away" some day or go die in my sleep. It is a interesting observation that people who have OBEs also seem to get strenght and stamina spiritual as well as mental to endure. I say endure becourse allthough it is a wonderful experience it can at times be very intense. Others may not have the same strenght as they do not have to do the battle so to speak.

As your day so shall your strenght be

I think that if I was to re do it I would be much more gradual and careful how I relate and make sure I did not give her any worries about me. I had a keeper of the thresh hold experience early on wich was terrifying and I told her. Bad idea[].I think that was too much for her. I think it would be wise to proceed carefully and with love and wisdom. It is a hard burden to carry, when someone you love are engaged in activities you do not understand and have no power over, and it can make people very fearfull.

Honesty is of course the best policy but maybe a remark and let her ask questions and certainly making it a gradual thing , rather than, "Honey I just wanna tell you that I leave my body at night and fly around the city and ....I just thought I would let you know[].

All the best
Mustardseed

[Dragen]

Hi Mustardseed,
Excellent point.  Your situation is exactly like mine.  My wife knows what i'm doing, and she also thinks i'm a very deep spiritual person.  She also told me she believes in my experiences 100%.  But she is afraid of what she doesn't understand.. and she worries about me.

Like you, I find if I say something wrong.. something which can be scary, etc.. she reacts weird to it.  She would almost rather not know instead of feel worried about me.  At one point I mentioned not discussing it with her anymore.. but she didn't want that either.  She just wants me to be careful.  And deep down, I think she is interested; curious to say the least.. I think she needs me to "ease" it in a bit at a time... like Mustardseed said.. don't just blurt out

"I left my body and a Negative psychic attacked me, so I retaliated and it ran off scared, so I followed it in to the sub planes, a form of hell, and I saw things trying to kill me, and then I saw a vision of the world exploding.. but then I went to a happy place with small frolicking bunnies.  What do you think honey?"

[:O]

[psychicphish]

Man you guys are funny,

I'm not married so I don't have any stories about my wife, but I'll talk for a minute about my experinces with this subject. I've been pagan since I was fifteen years old. My dad is a Baptist minister and my mom is a typical ministers wife (the SUPER CHRISTIAN[B)] Needless to say I've been spritually commited to the metaphysical pratices for quite a while, and I've had the opportunity to share my beliefs with people quite often. In the case I must agree that it is often best to say nothing unless approached about it. Most pople either don't, won't or can't understand things form our mode of thinking and often times, trying to explain that you have the abiltiy to leave your body or move objects, or read thoughts and feelings or whatever, will lead to more than your capable of dealing with. Believe me there's nothing worse than being the only pagan in a house full of christians who think you worship satan.

On the other side of this issue. I've got a lagre cadre of pagan and pagan friendly folks around me at most times so it's very easy to talk about the subject when ever I feel the need to. Additonally, my brother is constently trying to have a better understanding what I belive in so I'm always talking to him about it as well. I think that's the goal for most people. Not so much to convert but to quell mistinterpratation. That's not such a bad thing, as long as your not trying to turn the brow beating back on those who would do the same to us because they just don't get where we're coming from. If people know what your doing and understand that it's not what they believe it to be then I belive that it's a good thing for everyone and it makes our lives a little easier.

...ok..I'm done now[]

[kozzi]

No great mind has made revolutionary changes in social philosophy by not talking about his theories, beliefs, or experiences.  OBE and LD are real objective experiences natural to human life.  Talk about it!  Don't be afraid.  There will be a time when this is all normal, and we're much better at it, so let's get the word out.  I'm telling everyone regardless of their sometimes apparent negative reception.  I'm not losing cool points.

Kozzi

[The Bard]

There are pros and cons to openly discussing astral projection to just anyone. Parents have their children to consider. If you live in a community (like the one I live in) you have to consider how that town will treat your children. You don't want your children to suffer because of what you believe to be true.

I was raised different than most people. My mother was blunt about her beliefs in the places we lived. When I was 5 a woman tried to drown me because of my moms life style. I learned in my youth that not everyone is open-minded. I have always felt safer in the spirit world than I do with fellow humans.

There are times when it is good to speak freely about things you know. If you are single and only have yourself to worry about than there is no harm done in being blunt. If you are a parent than you have to be careful. You don't want to lose your children to close-minded government officials who think that stuff is loony. You don't want your neighbors to harass your children.

I speak freely about those things when I feel safe in the group of people that I am around but I'm not going to walk up to my neighbor and say, "Wow I sure had an awesome out of body experience this morning."

[James S]

Dragen,
I have to say that I really like the comments you've been putting here. There's a lot of very good common sense and wisdom in your thoughts.

One of the things my wife and I do share in common is we are both computer nerds - I set up Unix servers for a living and she's an IT trainer. Right now we're in our study, I'm on the main PC and she's at the desk beside me with her laptop manipulating a picture in Photoshop. I told her of the response you posted :

quote:Originally posted by Dragen
"I left my body and a Negative psychic attacked me, so I retaliated and it ran off scared, so I followed it in to the sub planes, a form of hell, and I saw things trying to kill me, and then I saw a vision of the world exploding.. but then I went to a happy place with small frolicking bunnies.  What do you think honey?"

To this she wanted to reply -

"That's just great dear, you just stay there and make a cool drink. I'm going shopping to find a white coat. Now what was the number for Mental Health again?"
[]

James.

[Tolvor]

A picture is worth a thousand words.  This one (http://www.despair.com/bitterness.html) sums up my feeling perfectly that OBE should be kept very private.

Don't worry, its kid and work safe.

[Dragen]

quote:Dragen,
I have to say that I really like the comments you've been putting here. There's a lot of very good common sense and wisdom in your thoughts.

Thanks for the kind words James!  I'm just like everybody else, trying to find answers and understanding.  I think i'm fortunate that I was able to think like this since I was a child.  My parents never forced me to attend any kind of church.  So I have learned a great deal by being "open" with others, myself, and possibilities.

It's funny how you mention your "nerd" status.  My wife and I are also both computer nerds.  I work in Information Systems for a manufacturing company and develop software/business logic for a large database.  It's a great job!  My wife doesn't work in I.T. professionally, but she loves computers (I taught her how to build her own too!) and she plays computer games.  So it's a nice thing to have in common!

quote:To this she wanted to reply -

"That's just great dear, you just stay there and make a cool drink. I'm going shopping to find a white coat. Now what was the number for Mental Health again?"

ROFL!  Make sure she gets one that fits.  Last time I was committed, I lost circulation to my head and made the problems worse.  []

[The Bard]

quote:Originally posted by Tolvor

A picture is worth a thousand words.  This one (http://www.despair.com/bitterness.html) sums up my feeling perfectly that OBE should be kept very private.

Don't worry, its kid and work safe.

LOL thanks for that link I just happen to know the perfect forum to post it in. Have you ever heard of Despair in Neil Gaimans Sandman?
Well I hope you don't mind me stealing that link and posting it in http://neilgaimanboard.com/6/ubb.x?a=frm&s=733605825&f=588609765"Worlds End."

[The AlphaOmega]

haha, Waking Life is a bad butt movie.  Definately gets you thinking.  If you watch it while shrooming though, wow, that's something else.

[unconscious sound]

Hi, I was having a pretty good talk about OBE' yesterday with a guy I know at work. It turns out he has OBE's over once a month, and doesn't always consciously attempt them. We got into the conversation by him seeing Astral Dynamics lying on a nearby shelf. Another guy there wanted to know how to have them, so the first guy was explaining meditation/relaxation methods to him.

  So, what I am wondering is, do you people have the luxury of talking to real-life friends or relatives about this stuff? My friends are all into it, and I am finding more and more other people who have had experiences, or are intrigued by it. My family, however, would think it's just plain silly, and that it is all rubbish that I learned by listening to "too much Art Bell". (No such thing as too much Art Bell, btw.   )

  Your thoughts on this, please.
                                                                              Best,
                          Mike