Who Understands Quantum Metaphysics?

[Jrd]

Hello,
  I am new to the Quant. forum, although I love physics and have a difficult time finding people who enjoy discusing it. Anway this is my take on the world of Quantum physics, and it all wraps up in two words- string theory. The string theory, or how I take the string theory in relations to OBE's and extra dimensions is easily understood with one anology, a loaf of bread. This I believe is one of Brian Greene's originals, he is the author or 'Elegant Universe' and 'The Fabric of the Cosmo's' and has a great talent for writing for the masses.
     Anyway the loaf is sliced up and each individual slice represents what is called a membrane in quant. physcis, or for short a brane. Each brane is thought to be a separate dimension or as we call it a Universe. Our brane, our slice of the loaf,  consist of our one universe. The reason we concieve only our brane and not other branes that are relatively right next to us is because we are vibrating at a separate and individual level in comparision to the other branes.  For example think of the strings on a violen, each makes its own vibrations when touched, making its own unique sound. Our universe is vibrating to its own unique wave and all that is in it does so as well, which puts us able to percieve only what is at our vibrational level within our own brane. As most of us believe in this forum, we have the capability to escape our physical body and percieve that which is greater. What I  believe this to be is the ability to percieve different levels of vibrations, hance different branes. Now this is a huge break through in the world of physics and thought, and there are two places in the world ( I forget where) that are running experements that run two hydrogen atoms at the speed of light in tunnels underground in hopes that they crash into eachother and make what is called anti-matter or another brane. (this may be confusing and I am not explaing it for all its worth) This is on the idea of the big bang, and how our own universe (brane) came to be. Anyway what scientist hope to find when doing this is the graviton (gravity) floating above and away from this newly formed brane. What this proves is that gravity is not pertainted to just our brane alone but is found in other branes, or possibly might be one of the forces that holds the whole loaf together and encompasses all the branes. Now what I think is possible and would be great to study is the idea of thoughts and human consciousness in relations to branes. Is there a way to find out if a level of consciousness floats beyond our brane? Wouldnt that be a amazing discovery for the human race to find out what exactly we are doing here? Does anyone have any thoughts on this, or have heard this before? I would love to get into research involving the human thought process in relations to our physical world and beyond. Just a quick thought and my understanding on a aspect of quantum physics Another great idea for this forum in better understanding physics it may be a good idea to have a sort of book club forum and read a book a month or something and discuss it on the forum to fuel questions, anwsers and great ideas.

[GuardianMasterAngel]

Quantum Metaphysics/Physics is something that I find extremly interesting it proves that we have life beyond 3D, that we have spirits and souls.  

[Telos]

Quantum Metaphysics/Physics is something that I find extremly interesting it proves that we have life beyond 3D, that we have spirits and souls.  

Just to clarify - No, unfortunately, it doesn't.

There is no evidence that connects quantum mechanics to consciousness, except that which is purely theoretical. The search is still on to find how quantum mechanics affects the brain, if at all.

You may not know this, but the overwhelming majority of quantum physicists believe that what they're studying has nothing to do with consciousness. Why is everyone so eager to believe that it does?

Personally, I feel you do not need physics to justify your experience, for physics is just another kind of experience.

[JoWo]

Hello Telos,

There is no evidence that connects quantum mechanics to consciousness, except that which is purely theoretical

Allow me please to disagree. A fundamental aspect of quantum mechanics is that the act of observing affects the outcome of a quantum experiments.  In other words, the consciousness of the observer interacts with the quantum process.

Quantum physics has also concluded that reality consists of an infinite number of "parallel universes".  We observe only one at a time, depending on our state of consciousness.

While this does not necessarily "prove" life after death, it does prove that there is a vast reality beyond the one that we experience physically, and this leads naturally to rather plausible explanations of spiritual knowledge.

[Telos]

Hello Telos,

There is no evidence that connects quantum mechanics to consciousness, except that which is purely theoretical

Allow me please to disagree. A fundamental aspect of quantum mechanics is that the act of observing affects the outcome of a quantum experiments.  In other words, the consciousness of the observer interacts with the quantum process.

Not directly. It's the act of measurement that affects the outcome of an experiment, and human consciousness is not necessary for measurement.

"Purely theoretically," doesn't mean "purely wrong." It just means there's lots more left for us to learn.

Quantum physics has also concluded that reality consists of an infinite number of "parallel universes".  We observe only one at a time, depending on our state of consciousness.

Quantum physics leaves the possibility of parallel universes open, but it is by no means conclusive. The Many-Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics is just one of many worthy theories. For a nice graph showing the similarities and differences of these interpretations, see this Wikipedia article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantum_mechanics

While this does not necessarily "prove" life after death, it does prove that there is a vast reality beyond the one that we experience physically, and this leads naturally to rather plausible explanations of spiritual knowledge.

You're right. What we don't know is large indeed! I'm very open-minded, I hope what I said does not sound like I'm shutting the book on the subject and consider the matter closed.

I bought a book by Jeffery Satinover called, "The Quantum Brain," and there was so much information on randomness and how it's used in models of learning. Only until halfway through the book did the author admit in a small series of paragraphs that there was no direct observation to show that the brain was utilizing quantum effects, and that we may never know anyways. His argument was mostly how such a brain could be constructed - as in, for a robotic race of AI's who would be massively superior to humans.

Not to enter this as a topic for argument, but the relationship between QM and consciousness is further confounded by how you interpret consciousness. If you start by saying, "everything that exists is consciousness," then you can't possibly be shown otherwise. You would have rewritten the dictionary to suit your needs for understanding (which may actually be a good idea.. who knows?).

Personally, I don't think studying QM is a good idea for understanding how one's subjective experience is applied to the world. There are more creative means of going about that. However, if you want to be an engineer and build stuff on the bleeding edge of technology, QM is the way to go!

[GuardianMasterAngel]

Hi, Telos  
Actually, Yes it does prove that we have life beyond physical, ever heard of fractals?
Fractal reality relates to Quan phys, fractal reality is infinite change continuum, without Quantum physics we would have no scientific proof of the fourth dimension, and this dimension is what proves we have a spirit and soul.
Some narcotic drugs activate dormant parts of the brain, when a certain part is activated one is able to actually 'see' these fractals, but only the ones that relate to them.
Quantum physics dictates that we come in and out of existance, this does suggest, (perhaps not conclusively prove) but suggests that we do have a spirit and soul.
Regards,

[JoWo]

Hi Talos,
You wrote:

It's the act of measurement that affects the outcome of an experiment, and human consciousness is not necessary for measurement.

I would say that there is no measurement without human consciousness.  The act of measuring is an act of the human mind, acted out in physical reality.  The measurement represents a conscious effort to understand the nature of reality.  Without the human consciousness, there would be no measurement.

Quantum physics leaves the possibility of parallel universes open, but it is by no means conclusive. The Many-Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics is just one of many worthy theories.

Fair enough, Talos.  The Many-Worlds interpretation is a valid theory of quantum physics, but it is not the only one.  The point is, however, that some quantum physicists accept that consciousness affects quantum events.  Other physicists believe that consciousness "collapses the waveform" to form a particle.
However, I don't assume that we will resolve these issues here in this forum while the best scientists of the world can't agree on a common interpretation.  Rather, let me explain why I am convinced of the close interrelationship between our consciousness and the quantum world.
Decades ago, I had a dramatic enlightening experience of higher reality.  Ever since than I "know" that our physical reality is but one possible aspect of the underlying, true reality.  The "real" reality has untold more dimensions than our 3-D world, and we experience only one of infinite different aspects of true reality.  It is like snapping pictures of a tree from different angles.  It's always the same tree, but we can look at it from different angles.  So we "create many possible "parallel worlds" from one and the same multi-dimensional reality.  It's too much to explain here in this post, but if you are interested, you can read more about it in my website www.quantom-metaphysics.com or in my book, "Understanding the Grand Design".
In the 1970s, I came across Jane Roberts' channeled Seth books, and I was fascinated how Seth described this very same "mechanism" of our reality.  Throughout his many books, he keeps on repeating that true reality is multi-dimensional, and  "You create your own reality" by focusing on one of many possible aspects of that higher reality.  
The problem with quantum physics is that it makes no common sense to us.  The reason is that our common sense is faulty, not quantum reality.  The biggest obstacle to understanding "real' reality is this: physicists take it for granted that physical reality is the "real" reality and everything else must be understood in terms of our physical environment.  This view is upside-down.  The most fundamental base of all reality is the unified whole of Everything, which I call "All-Entity".  All other phenomena are limited aspects of this transcendent Whole.  
It is also necessary to have a clear understanding of how these limited aspects are related to the whole.  This is true for any whole, for instance the photon is the whole of its two aspects, wave and particle.
There is also some confusion about what is real and what is not.  For instance, the multiple-world interpretation is difficult to accept if you assume that all these infinite number of parallel universes must coexist. This problem disappears if we accept that "All-Entity" is the only truly "real reality" and everything else are more or less limited (lower-dimensional) aspects of It, like many different views off the same tree.

[Telos]

JoWo, I had read your article before. I posted a new topic with some of my thoughts. I have much more to say, but I think I wrote the gist of it.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17661

[UniOne]

Hey... I may be new... but my research may help on this subject... Just go to Telos' link...

[CelestineTruthSeeker]

Hello, people.  I'm new to this group of forums, but I saw the quote below and had to respond.  I think I like this guy Max Planck; that is one serious and to-the-point observation of Truth.  As far as I can see, it holds true not only in science but also in just about any other human endeavor as well, with the exception of religion.  Otherwise, a lot of old beliefs would have ceased to be so predominant a long time ago...

Namaste',
Don

Max Planck, the famous Nobel Prize winner in physics said: "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."

[pmlonline]

Hi Talos,
You wrote:

It's the act of measurement that affects the outcome of an experiment, and human consciousness is not necessary for measurement.

I would say that there is no measurement without human consciousness.  The act of measuring is an act of the human mind, acted out in physical reality.  The measurement represents a conscious effort to understand the nature of reality.  Without the human consciousness, there would be no measurement.

Very good!

Quantum physics leaves the possibility of parallel universes open, but it is by no means conclusive. The Many-Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics is just one of many worthy theories.

Fair enough, Talos.  The Many-Worlds interpretation is a valid theory of quantum physics, but it is not the only one.  The point is, however, that some quantum physicists accept that consciousness affects quantum events.  Other physicists believe that consciousness "collapses the waveform" to form a particle.

I don't recall the exact percentage, but a pole was taken amongst the scientists in the world, including Hawkings, and most now believe in the Many-Worlds Interpretation.  Hawkings and Feynman are but a few of the examples who believe in MWI.

Decades ago, I had a dramatic enlightening experience of higher reality.  Ever since than I "know" that our physical reality is but one possible aspect of the underlying, true reality.  The "real" reality has untold more dimensions than our 3-D world, and we experience only one of infinite different aspects of true reality.  It is like snapping pictures of a tree from different angles.  It's always the same tree, but we can look at it from different angles.  So we "create many possible "parallel worlds" from one and the same multi-dimensional reality.  It's too much to explain here in this post, but if you are interested, you can read more about it in my website www.quantom-metaphysics.com or in my book, "Understanding the Grand Design".
In the 1970s, I came across Jane Roberts' channeled Seth books, and I was fascinated how Seth described this very same "mechanism" of our reality.  Throughout his many books, he keeps on repeating that true reality is multi-dimensional, and  "You create your own reality" by focusing on one of many possible aspects of that higher reality.

Good point.  Where you will find one consciousness you will find a reality.  There are countless worlds / realms in the Astral & Mental planes.  Each world / realm / place only exists because one or more beings thought it into existence.  There are many dead realms that appear very faded in color, where the plants are dying and actually disappearing.  This is a dead realm that is no longer needed.  An empty place where beings no longer live and go to.

Science found various experiments that display "Free Will."  Science used to think that every particle and energy wave could be tracked and followed.  So it was thought that the future was predetermined since the direction and velocity of everything was predictable.  Then came the great experiments such as the Double Slit experiment.  So now they see that if they shoot an electron that they cannot predict which path the electron will traverse.  They call that the Probability Wave.  To me, that wave is predictable if you know the group consciousness on that plane.
We believe that every particle and energy wave that is traveling at this very moment is uncertain.  Einstein despised QM because he refused to believe God rolled dice.  What Einstein didn't see was that GOD was the dice!  My definition of God is Group Consciousness of All Things.  If that's the case, then it is group consciousness that determines where a particle will traverse.  That's why some people such as Uri Geller can affect matter.  They learned how to focus their consciousness more than others.

The problem with quantum physics is that it makes no common sense to us.  The reason is that our common sense is faulty, not quantum reality.  The biggest obstacle to understanding "real' reality is this: physicists take it for granted that physical reality is the "real" reality and everything else must be understood in terms of our physical environment.  This view is upside-down.  The most fundamental base of all reality is the unified whole of Everything, which I call "All-Entity".  All other phenomena are limited aspects of this transcendent Whole.  
It is also necessary to have a clear understanding of how these limited aspects are related to the whole.  This is true for any whole, for instance the photon is the whole of its two aspects, wave and particle.

Very good.  Science has detected but a miniscule section of just our Cosmic plane alone.  In fact, science has barely stepped into the Etheric plane, which is still part of the Physical plane.  They have 6 more planes + our plane to go in our Cosmic plane.

There is also some confusion about what is real and what is not.  For instance, the multiple-world interpretation is difficult to accept if you assume that all these infinite number of parallel universes must coexist. This problem disappears if we accept that "All-Entity" is the only truly "real reality" and everything else are more or less limited (lower-dimensional) aspects of It, like many different views off the same tree.

If there are infinite beings / consciousness then there are infinite worlds.  If that's the case then that part of the MWI theory is correct.  I don't think MWI is remotely close in its interpretation though.  These worlds are merely created by group consciousness.  It is consciousness that is real.

I always said, In order to change yourself you must change the world.  That is why prayer and meditation are so important.  Prayer and meditation are many things.  One is that it is a way to believe and change your world as you so wish.  If you believe long enough then it will be.  Your reality is not necessary another's reality.  All beings may exist in their world and may also share their world with others.  

Just believe and it will be so,
Paul

[nakiannu]

In a nutshell, I think Quantum Physics demonstrates two important principles:  1) all matter is connected in ways that we don't understand yet &   2)  Our layer of reality is but one frequency, like layers of an onion.

At least thats what I get from it, in a nutshell.

[pmlonline]

In a nutshell QM can show humanity that to a certain level we have free will.  Hold your arm out in front of you.  Now decide to move your arm either left or right.  That is free will and according to QM there is no way to determine which direction you would have chose because all particles that are in motion have a probability wave.  Meaning, there is no human that could determine what path the particle would make.  When the particle collides with another particle then we get the collapse of the wave function, according to QM, and then you may know where the particle is, but the next instant that particle is once again in motion.  Einstein argued that God would not role dice, but what if God was the dice.  The "Many Worlds Interpretation" is very interesting and a good read, but perhaps not the full truth.

[marcelomjr]

"I think it is safe to say that no one understands quantum mechanics."
- Feynman

http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/HEISENBERG/Chapter1.html

Absurdities in Modern Physics: A Solution
 
           by Paul Marmet

1 - Promulgation of Absurdities
1-1 The Copenhagen Interpretation.

       All humans are continuously surrounded, every day of their life, by real facts of nature. We believe in the existence of galaxies, stars, the sun and the moon and the earth. Nobody denies the real existence of cities, streets, houses and all the objects that we see. We believe that the floor supporting our weight and the air that we breathe really do exist. When there is a car accident, in which a person is injured, who believes that the car did not exist before the collision! We believe that our mind becomes informed of these facts and it tries to understand all those realities. However, the Copenhagen interpretation used in modern physics teaches that none of this is real.
       There is another surprise. Many physicists are not aware that the interpretation of modern physics implies that matter does not exist independently of the observer. What is taught is that it is the observer's knowledge that creates the result. Of course, physics students have to study some interpretation of modern physics but [...]

[greggkroodsma]

I think quantum metaphysics tells us that everything is connected with everything. It tells us that humans have limited thus physical  minds.

I have never had an OBE so I cant tell for sure that our mind extends beyond the physical....but I believe the manys stories I have read...

A question: How does the human mind stands in the whole picture of Quantum metaphysics??

Maybe a better phrase would be Quantum explanation of Metaphysics.
All of the particles at the Quantum level have been given a proper explanation. 
What creates the picture in you mind?!!!  What creates the neutrino?  And no it is not the same thing, but they are the same process.  Your thoughts create neutrinos.
What creates your thoughts?
How do ions react with each other?
What creates the photon?
Is the photon the opposite of a neutrino?