Freedom of Choice Book

[Nybster]

also, i'll share an experience with the chakra shirt,

i decided to wear my chakra shirt to the gym on day. when i put it on i had the usual experience, waves of euphoria, tears of gratitude etc, BUT when i got to the gym i could hardly lift a thing. i almost stacked it off the treadmill too. what's up with this? i thought.

then i realised that the chakra shirt was over-energising certain chakras and massively depleting others, ie the Gym Chakra. (what more can you expect from someone who fasted for 40 days--that won't get ya big.) so the moral of the story is, if you wanna keep your gym chakra in good shape, stay away from the chakra shirt.

[vesselinpeev]

You fasted -- you don't have the strength. That's normal, but how do you conclude it's the shirt's fault?

[bomohwkl]

Hmmmm.... I have no problem of leaving weights...while wearing the chakra shirts..but I dont't fast 40 days and doing weight and aerobic training. Are you joking? Use you common sense.(Unfortunately, I found out from interactions from other people that common sense to me isn't common sense to other people.)

[Nybster]

noo it was tom chakro who fasted, not me. i was saying its not surprising that he neglected the gym chakra, because he's a faster. as for doing weight training during a 40 day fast.. lol, that's a good way to get a back injury.

[vesselinpeev]

I do regular weightlifting and I do not have any problems while training with the shirt. That is just my long-term experience. Perhaps yours is just as valuable, if you have careful observations over the long term and you isolate other factors that are possibly sapping your energy.

[Nybster]

interesting theory. i think the difference is, you do regular weightlifting, whereas i do Gym Reiki Lifting. regular lifting utilises the base chakra (which is included on the chakra shirt), whereas Gym Reiki Lifting involves the Gym Chakra. the gym chakra, btw, is located between the 3rd eye and crown - it has an extremely high spiritual frequency. as such, the path of Gym Reiki will lead one to enlightenment very quickly (or so i am told by my Gym Reiki Master). the name of the game is to consciously co-create the physical form, eventually to become the embodiment of God On Earth. however having said that, i do respect your choice to follow a different path.

[vesselinpeev]

Interesting. What do you mean by 'co-create'? I'd like to know the basics of what you are doing, if you could describe them.

[bomohwkl]

The way to prove it, is to use gas discharge visualisation (GDV). Anyone has acessed of GVD pro? Couldn't afford it at the moment. Still a student.

[vesselinpeev]

With this GDV instrument you can prove a lot of things.
Such a thing is prohibitively expensive. GDV Camera Pro is 6500 USD without applicable taxes. I wonder also why it has only 1 year of warranty. At such a price no wonder very few people use it or will use it -- except most professional medical researchers who have the funds but are not exactly what you call open-minded to adopt it widely.

[vesselinpeev]

Tom Chalko has access to such a tool, so you may want to discuss any relevant tests with him, if you trust that he'll make independent observations.

[Nybster]

quote:Originally posted by vesselinpeev

Interesting. What do you mean by 'co-create'? I'd like to know the basics of what you are doing, if you could describe them.

sure. first of all you need to get attuned to the gym reiki energy, then you take the special dietary supplement codenamed "LDS007" (non-initiates are not allowed to be told the real name of the chemical). this will put you in touch with the Gym Reiki Ascended Masters, who will assist you in choosing the blueprint for your new form.. it will come in the form of visions (some would say hallucinations). that's why it's called co-creating, because you are working together with the GRAMs (quite a high dosage indeed, but its all good) to choose the perfect end-product. you can tell it's activating the gym chakra because of the burning/frying sensation in that part of the head, which is often accompanied by a high-pitched sound.. sszszzszsszssz.

then you basically just let the energy do the work. it'll let you know when you need to go to the gym (pretty often), and it'll help you choose the right protein supplement (musashi 92%), etc. as you proceed, the small 'will to live' gets consumed by the Divine Will to Lift, and life is never the same again!

[vesselinpeev]

I am open minded and considering others' experiences, and that's why I also ask:
are you absolutely sure that what you are given as a supplement is not hallucinogenic?
And when you say that life is not the same any more, what do you mean? While doing this 'gym reiki', have you measured actual progress that helps you in everyday life, in the long term, without any negative effects on your physical body or mind?
I'd also very much like to learn more about what you are doing, but have been unable to find online any term 'gym reiki'. Any alternate names? The closest name I've found is 'brain gym'.
Last question -- who are those so-called Ascended Masters and is the 'gym reiki' practice dependent on them i.e. without your connecting to them is it possible to perform it? If it is, have you seen any of those?
Or do you merely mean that you tap into the same level of consciousness as your teachers say is fitting for a so-called Ascended Master, but you don't directly interact with anyone like that?

As you see, I'm trying to think logically for something I do not know

[Nybster]

wow, thankyou for your interest in Gym Reiki. i'll try to answer your questions in order..
- prehaps
- it becomes a big long trip !
- most definately, i'm able to benchpress twice as much these days
- it's called Gym Reiki.. i think it's been mentioned on these forums in the past. it's quite a closed organisation though, because alot of what we do is not condoned by many groups, including the police. if you want to join up, there's probably a gym reiki representative at your gym.. just ask at reception. mention my name (or Jym's), and they'll sort you out.
- the Gym Reiki Ascended Masters are a group of interdimensional beings that you can contact when you take the secret dietary supplement.. you can channel gym reiki energy without the GRAMs but you won't get the same results. as for the ones i have seen, all i can say is, they're bloody huge.

[DG]

Hi,

Regarding the "monkey business" and chance theory, there is some truth in it. The key word here is "some", especially relative to the subject of intelligent creations.

First, I think that the "monkey typist" analogy was used to bring the idea of the chance theory to people who are not good with numbers, and still use fingers, feet for linear measurement, and words like "small", "king", "jumbo" and so on for sizes. (Americans, please forgive me the pun).

If you look for more exact definitions, then you deal with statistics and its branches.

I will try to illustrate that it is still possible to create a Shakespeare work by using random chance. However, we will need to use a truly random generator, not hypothetical monkey, whose randomness characteristics are not too good.

Let's assume that:
1.   The work consists of 100000 characters.
2.   The random characters generator gives 1 character per second.

How much time it takes to make an intelligent piece of writing (let's call it "the book")?

The probability of first letter in the book is 1/30 (26 letters + 4 punctuation marks; no capitals!).
The probability of two letters to be a part of the book is 1/30 * 1/30 = 1/(30^2).
...

The probability of 100000 letters to be in order: 1 / (30 ^ 100000). It means that if we have 30^100000- characters size random sequence of letters, then there is a good chance to get our book ready (not considering the job of finding the sequence, which is secondary to our subject).

The time to produce such a sequence is 30 ^100000 seconds, which is approximately...

10^99994 years.

Well, this looks like more then a "jumbo" size number, considering that our universe exist only (according to mainstream official science) for less then 10^10 years. I just can't grasp this number, or find an analogy in real world. (Maybe it is "jumbo"^"king" number [] ?).

Incidentally, the speeding up the typing process million times, reduces the total time just... well, it almost doesn't.

So, even if the theory can be good, practically it looks impossible to make anything intelligent just by a chance.

Sincerely,

Dmitri.

[RJA]

Hmmmm....this book puports to explain the meaning of the Universe and why we're here.  In a nutshell, the author Thomas Chalko says that the "Great Intellect" (read: God) created us so that we would grow to love him, ...  The message isn't a whole lot different than New Age, Christian Mysticism, Buddhist type stuff I've already read.  Except that he has created a whole new jargon and series of terms to describe the age-old concepts.

Also, it's important to note that this is the same guy who wrote The Thiaoouba Prophecy, which also purports to explain the meaning of the universe and why we're here.  In the header Adrian has stated that this book has nothing to do with the last one.  Fine, except that when you write two books, each of which provide a different explanation for the meaning of the Universe and why we're here it seems that you owe the reader an explanation.  In the first book he describes a guy, Michael (I think) who was abducted by aliens who took them to their planet and explained to him how they had created life on Earth, yadda yadda.

Anyway, I found a lot of truths in this book - but as I said before they were age-old truths that anyone familiar with New Age thought, and comparitive religions will already have read many times over in a more cohesive format.

And although there were certainly some truths in this book, this man's reasoning logic is very poor which made it hard to take him seriously at all.  I'll give a few examples:

1) To prove to us that there is an intelligent creator the author states that It is easier to make a house than a life.  And since we know that building a house requires planning and design we can therefore conclude that creating life also must require planning and design – i.e. an intellect behind it.

Well, it sounds good, and most of us believe in some sort of intelligent designer anyway, but it is not logically sound thinking.  Just because a less complex thing has a designer it does not logically require that all more complex things also have a designer.

2) He goes on to propose the question of why a house can't construct itself?  He concludes because it requires an intellect to imagine and design the house.

Although true, I would say it's that the construction requires assembly which involves movement, and that raw materials don't possess the ability to move themselves in that way.  However, biological materials DO possess the ability to move and change and assemble over time to create something else.  That doesn't rule out an intellect behind their design but it does show that he's comparing apples and oranges with this example.

3) He states that the only thing required for us to increase our intellect is INTENT (I would suggest raw materials and a pool of knowledge able to be discovered is also necessary, but never mind that).  Therefore he says that the way that the "Great Intellect" came into being is that there was nothing, but this nothing had the INTENT of increasing it's intellect and tada - the Great Intellect came into being.  

I don't see that that explanation for God's beginning is any better than anything else I've read.

4) Next, in order to prove that there is a purpose and meaning behind our being here he asks, "Can you imagine anything with great intellect building something for no reason and with no purpose?"  And from this he asserts categorically that life has a reason and a purpose.

Whatever great intellect is behind all of existence is not subject to the limits of my imagination.  It doesn't seem likely from my puny little human perspective that such an intellect would create something for no reason or no purpose, but the very thought of applying my puny little human reasoning to the motives of such an intellect seems patently absurd!

And then he goes on to basically explain that this Great Intellect wanted to love and be loved (never mind that love didn't exist yet) and so he created us for that purpose (warmed over Christian concept) and gave us free will, cleverly disguising it's own existence...

There are thousands of similar logical flaws and innanities in this trite little document, but like I said he seems to be drawing on some very common metaphysical ideas so there are also some truths in here (as my Dad would say, "even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while).

So, I won't discuss all 10,000 of the problems with this book but here's a couple more humorous examples:

1) At some point he concludes that our whole purpose is to develop our own intellects without limits.  He thus criticizes religious doctrines and systems that attempt to limit our intellectual development and says that no one should ever put belief systems in place that do this.  

Guess what he does next?  He does exactly what he just said we should never do, - he lists a set of rules to live by which is essentially a belief system that puts parameters around our intellectual development!!!  As per his rules, there should be no:

- Promoting beliefs and belief systems, regardless of their flavor
- Using hypnosis, both individual and collective to implant
beliefs and belief systems (mis-programming the intellect)
- Promoting and sustaining fear of any kind. Examples
include any "fear propaganda" such as promoting fear of
God, fear of disease, fear of death, fear of Hell, fear of
sunshine, or fear of anything else whatsoever.
- Enforcing doctrines and authority of any kind
- Suppressing and ridiculing alternative points of view.
- Interfering with the individual FREEDOM of CHOICE in
any way (like forcing people to follow orders or become
like everyone else for example)
- Disrespect for individuality – following statistics rather
than intellect
- Restricting freedom of thought in any way.
- Clouding of consciousness with drugs, substances and
activities that alter perception
- Reinforcing, promoting and glorifying primitive instincts
- promoting and glorifying violence

Sure, most of these are reasonable but I'm surprised he doesn't see the irony in even presenting such a list!

2) He says that we're all in the dark, but once our intellects are awakened our misconceptions can be corrected quicky - UNLESS WE'VE EVER DONE DRUGS!!! Here's the exact passage and it's hillarious:

"Awakening of the Individual Intellect can result in spectacular reversal of mis-programming. New learning can occur quite quickly, once a person discovers how to use the Intelligence and the Freedom of Choice to regain autonomy. There seems to be only one exception. When a person has used drugs.

One friend of mine told me about a couple of his friends, who experimented with hallucinogenic mushrooms for two months. Only two months. A long time after they stopped - they remain convinced that they are "dolphins". No intelligent conversation is possible. They are "dolphins"..."

Oye!

3) Later when teaching us how to meditate he suggests that we pick a mantra, but not tell anyone because then they might be able to control our minds by telepathically transmitting our mantra to us.

Yeah, right.  So then what should I pick as a mantra - well here's his suggestion:  

"The most widely known mantra is "ooohmmm" or "aaaaummm", but any other similar word will do..."

Excuse me, but if I pick "Om" - wouldn't a devious mind-controlling psycopath figure that out.  Or am I safe because so many people use it that said psycopath wouldn't know whose mind he was controlling?

Anyway, my overall impression of this so-called "theory" is that it needs more time in the oven.  At least the Thiaoouba Prophecy was original!!!

[]

[vesselinpeev]

Hello, RJA,

The book is very logical to me and my life experience relates to it.

Hmmmm....this book puports to explain the meaning of the Universe and why we're here. In a nutshell, the author Thomas Chalko says that the "Great Intellect" (read: God) created us so that we would grow to love him, ... The message isn't a whole lot different than New Age, Christian Mysticism, Buddhist type stuff I've already read. Except that he has created a whole new jargon and series of terms to describe the age-old concepts.

In my opinion, the book is clearer for the average person to understand than any religious teaching on Earth. Most religious books are steeped in embellishments, rituals and other ridiculous  contortions of logic in addition to some truths.
The terms introduced are relevant to our technological society, just as many terms have been introduced in all fields of human endeavour.

Also, it's important to note that this is the same guy who wrote The Thiaoouba Prophecy, which also purports to explain the meaning of the universe and why we're here. In the header Adrian has stated that this book has nothing to do with the last one. Fine, except that when you write two books, each of which provide a different explanation for the meaning of the Universe and why we're here it seems that you owe the reader an explanation. In the first book he describes a guy, Michael (I think) who was abducted by aliens who took them to their planet and explained to him how they had created life on Earth, yadda yadda.

As a careful translator and editor of "Thiaoouba Prophecy", I can tell you that Tom Chalko had nothing to do with writing "Thiaoouba Prophecy", whose sole author is Michel Desmarquet.
Yes, in the header Adrian has stated that this book has nothing to do with the last one, and Adrian is completely wrong. In fact, it has a lot to do. The number one bibliographic reference for the Freedom book is "Thiaoouba Prophecy", and the former explains most of the same ideas in Michel's book. And please read "Thiaoouba Prophecy" carefully -- these advanced aliens have NOT created life on Earth.

Just because a less complex thing has a designer it does not logically require that all more complex things also have a designer.

Our civilization is unable to create a single biological cell. If it ever achieves it, how easy would it apply its achievement to creating, say, an animal? Can an animal spring up to life without requiring even greater intelligence?

2) He goes on to propose the question of why a house can't construct itself? He concludes because it requires an intellect to imagine and design the house.
Although true, I would say it's that the construction requires assembly which involves movement, and that raw materials don't possess the ability to move themselves in that way. However, biological materials DO possess the ability to move and change and assemble over time to create something else. That doesn't rule out an intellect behind their design but it does show that he's comparing apples and oranges with this example.

George Gallup, the famous statistician said:
"I could prove God statistically; take the human body alone; the chance that all the functions of the individual would just happen, is a statistical monstrosity."

The human body requires many, many orders of magnitude of intelligent interaction more than the possible interactions of any known raw or biological materials to build all its constituents and synchronize their work -- a statistical MONSTROSITY.

4) Next, in order to prove that there is a purpose and meaning behind our being here he asks, "Can you imagine anything with great intellect building something for no reason and with no purpose?" And from this he asserts categorically that life has a reason and a purpose.
Whatever great intellect is behind all of existence is not subject to the limits of my imagination. It doesn't seem likely from my puny little human perspective that such an intellect would create something for no reason or no purpose, but the very thought of applying my puny little human reasoning to the motives of such an intellect seems patently absurd!

What are the limits of your imagination? Have you really explored them?

And then he goes on to basically explain that this Great Intellect wanted to love and be loved (never mind that love didn't
exist yet) and so he created us for that purpose (warmed over Christian concept) and gave us free will, cleverly disguising
it's own existence... There are thousands of similar logical flaws and innanities in this trite little document...

Why not want to love and be loved? Being a Great Intellect, it knew it could create something great, and it could be done only through love. Why so?
If you look on a small, puny scale, within yourself, YOU will see that the only way to create something truly GREAT is to do it through LOVE. As you create something living that you so much love, in order to perpetuate that love, you must give full FREEDOM to your creation to develop independently, or it would not be given a chance to love you, in which case you would not have created anything truly great (because love wasn't sustained by it). Greatness and love are so interconnected that a great intellect designing for experiencing reciprocal love from its own great living intelligent creation (i.e. humans) is a VERY logical conclusion. If you have alternatives to love, please let us know.
If you think there are logical flaws, develop an enhanced theory and write it down for many others to examine. Tom Chalko's writing
is not a gospel. It describes valuable ideas that make very good sense to some of us and which in the first place need further extensive empirical research. Some of us are already doing something about it.

Guess what he does next? He does exactly what he just said we should never do, - he lists a set of rules to live by which is
essentially a belief system that puts parameters around our intellectual development!!! As per his rules, there should be no:
- Promoting beliefs and belief systems, regardless of their flavor
- Using hypnosis, both individual and collective to implant
beliefs and belief systems (mis-programming the intellect)
- Promoting and sustaining fear of any kind. Examples include any "fear propaganda" such as promoting fear of God, fear of disease, fear of death, fear of Hell, fear of sunshine, or fear of anything else whatsoever.
- Enforcing doctrines and authority of any kind
- Suppressing and ridiculing alternative points of view.
- Interfering with the individual FREEDOM of CHOICE in
any way (like forcing people to follow orders or become
like everyone else for example)
- Disrespect for individuality – following statistics rather
than intellect
- Restricting freedom of thought in any way.
- Clouding of consciousness with drugs, substances and
activities that alter perception
- Reinforcing, promoting and glorifying primitive instincts
- promoting and glorifying violence
Sure, most of these are reasonable but I'm surprised he doesn't see the irony in even presenting such a list!

There is no irony that I can find. The above statements do not encroach on individual independence and critical thinking in any way, they only stress the need for them. If they advised against them, then that would be irony, but this is not the case.

2) He says that we're all in the dark, but once our intellects are awakened our misconceptions can be corrected quicky -
UNLESS WE'VE EVER DONE DRUGS!!! Here's the exact passage and it's hillarious:
"Awakening of the Individual Intellect can result in spectacular reversal of mis-programming. New learning can occur quite quickly, once a person discovers how to use the Intelligence and the Freedom of Choice to regain autonomy. There seems to be only one exception. When a person has used drugs.
One friend of mine told me about a couple of his friends, who experimented with hallucinogenic mushrooms for two months.
Only two months. A long time after they stopped - they remain convinced that they are "dolphins". No intelligent conversation
is possible. They are "dolphins"..."

So what is so hilarious in the tragedy of real people being permanently stuck to a dolphin self-image?
Do you realize what you are laughing at?

Wishing you the best on your spiritual quest,
Vesko

[RJA]

Vesselinpeev,

Thanks for your response.  I appreciate that others might find wisdom in Chalko's book.  As I said he seems to have reitereated many spiritual truths that I've read other places.  

And I should make it clear that I didn't disagree with most of his assertions, such as that there is an intelligent creator or that we were created for a purpose.  What I pointed out is that his arguments for these things were not logically sound, in my opinion.

quote:Originally posted by vesselinpeev

The book is very logical to me and my life experience relates to it.

If it works for you, that's great.  Each of us must seek truth in our own way, and truth comes disguised in a variety of forms for us to find it.

quote:...Yes, in the header Adrian has stated that this book has nothing to do with the last one, and Adrian is completely wrong. In fact, it has a lot to do. The number one bibliographic reference for the Freedom book is "Thiaoouba Prophecy", and the former explains most of the same ideas in Michel's book. And please read "Thiaoouba Prophecy" carefully -- these advanced aliens have NOT created life on Earth.

I guess I look with extreme skepticism on any claims involving alien abductions and their relationship to my spiritual life.  There are any number of these types of philosophies that have been tossed around over the years.  I haven't read anything in the Zeta threads on here, but I believe the "Zetas" advocate some entirely different philosophy having to do with aliens and our purpose here on Earth...or perhaps it's the same as the Thiaoouba Prophecy, I'm not sure. Also, there was that Hale-Bopp cult a few years ago who believed that aliens on the Hale-Bopp comet were going to pick them up as it swung by the Earth.  And I'm sure there are many more.

No offense to those who adhere to one of these many alien philosophies but I do not find them credible.  

And no offense again, but I have difficulty with your credibility considering that in your profile you claim to be 2,396 years old.  I do not believe any one on this planet is older than about 120 years and if you were 2,396 years old I would think that you would have read so widely on the subject of spirituality that the information in this book would seem to you, like it does to me, - "rehashed".

I have mixed feelings about casting aspersions as to your credibility because I'm sure you are a nice person.  And I am widely tolerant in my religious views but since you claim to be 2,396 years old I feel compelled to be honest with you and let you know that I not only disbelieve you, but that such a claim causes me to doubt your credibility in other areas. Even though I've only been posting here a short time I've noticed that there are a lot of posters here who seem to role-players rather than spiritual seekers.

However, although this may not be the forum for it I would love to here from you, how it is that you have come to be 2,396 years old and how after all that time your spirtual search brought you to regard the Thiaoouba Prophecy and Freedom of Choice as spiritual truth.

Peace to you. []

[vesselinpeev]

Hello,

Thank you for not starting a flame -- you too are a nice guy, you know.

I corrected my profile, lest it confuses more people that I want to show off. It'd be very worried if anyone else thought so. Now, the age of my current physical body is 24. The previous age was formed by combining 2003 and 1996, two years of great significance in my life.

I too am repulsed by the amount of misinformation regarding aliens. Billy Meier and Riley Martin have similar accounts to Michel's, but their stories have ridiculous, outrageous inconsistencies that easily expose them as crooks running businesses to deceive the gullible. The grays from Zeta Reticuli probably exist, but I doubt their agendas have anything to do with the vast majority of circulating info. And why I can't seem to accomodate the existence of the reptileans, whose direct descendant, according to the confident David Icke, is the British Queen Mother...

For me, books I read are nothing more than hints, some more so. Even the best books are unable to give you knowledge, but they can present more choices to you. I try to think critically and intensively all the while while testing sensible ideas, including those from books.

Since you've read my profile, I will tell you I am finishing my professional training in Canada, and will be going to Washington, DC for two weeks after this one. Feel free to contact me, and even if I don't have enough time for discussions right now, I'll be sure to get back to you later, I promise. It's great to have friends who have different perspectives on life but who also have high ideals close at heart.

-Vesko

[bomohwkl]

Just because a less complex thing has a designer it does not logically require that all more complex things also have a designer.
Hahaha......Does it means that  appearance of complex things are more probable without a designer than with a designer? It is my freedom of choice to choose something  which is far more probable although people has the freedom of choice to believe otherwise.


biological materials DO possess the ability to move and change and assemble over time to create something else
Back to the same question, how does this intricate universe appear? Oh, it is due to randomness? If you think the universe is created out of randomness, I cannot further explain anything to you.

In strictest speaking, no one can explicitly states rules for us to obey without understanding the reasons behind. I prefer to use the word guidance. True 'laws' and 'rules' are the crystallisation of centuries of wisdom and the inhabitants agree with their own free-will to observe such 'laws' and 'rules' as the wise inhabitants know that if they go against such 'rules' and 'laws' there will be unhappiness and suffering. This has been discussed the in reader forum

[bomohwkl]

I agreed with vesselinpeev that there are just too much misinformation about aliens. It doesn't take a day or a week to see through the truth behind about other information about aliens after reading Thiaoouba Prophency. But the book freedom of choice makes certain truth about aliens more easily discernable but it takes months! There is no SHORT CUT towards evolution of consciousness. Even if information is given, it takes time to digest and to think. After that, you have developed effective ways of spotting such misinformation.

[RJA]

quote:Originally posted by bomohwkl
Oh, it is due to randomness? If you think the universe is created out of randomness, I cannot further explain anything to you.

You missed my point entirely.  I believe the universe was created by an intelligent designer.  I stated clearly in my post that i DID NOT disagree with the author's conclusion, but that his logic was poor. You are so eager to disagree with me that you obviously did not even bother to understand my post.

quote:In strictest speaking, no one can explicitly states rules for us to obey without understanding the reasons behind. I prefer to use the word guidance. True 'laws' and 'rules' are the crystallisation of centuries of wisdom and the inhabitants agree with their own free-will to observe such 'laws' and 'rules' as the wise inhabitants know that if they go against such 'rules' and 'laws' there will be unhappiness and suffering. This has been discussed the in reader forum

To even construct a list of rules is a sign of folly because any list of rules automatically sidelines your purported truth by creating a "legalist" structure in which your rules take center stage and provoke endless and meaningless debate (ala the 10 commandments).  For example, it's absurd to caution against using drugs because people will debate till the cows come home the meaning of that caution.  All drugs? Aspirin? Moderate alcohol use? Caffiene? What about anesthetics during surgery?  What about painkillers for the terminally ill?  Herbs?

Also, in that same commandment he prohibited (I forget his exact wording) any activity that alters consciousness.  Well, - meditation does that and he explicity did recommend that.

As I mentioned before his document was riddled with contradictions (don't force rules on someone, by the way here's my list of rules, don't let anyone know what your mantra is, but you might try using "Om", don't let anyone limit your personal freedom but believe what I tell you) and age-old spiritual ideas presented as new.  Quite frankly the assertion that he arrived at this after years of meditating hours a day is a bit laughable.  Chalko is apparently just one more person trying to gain a following and control what others believe.

If it works for you great, but as I've stated before I don't buy into the alien stuff.  If it fosters spiritual growth for you, - great!  We are all just spiritual beings tryin' to figure it out and none of us (not even that Michael guy or Chalko) have a corner on spiritual truth.  When someone tells me they know all the answers I run the other way because I know that when it comes to spirituality the value is in discovering truths for ourselves, not in just having someone else spoon-feed us their version of the truth (and in this case a set of rules to live by).

Peace. []

[bomohwkl]

We will be very happy if you can improve the logic. How could it be expressed in more concise and yet logical way?? We will be pleased if you could state the other ways.


That's exactly WHY I say that any 'rules' or 'laws' cannot be enforced (as it restricted our freedom of choice). Anyone is free to make any choices. If someone hurt and torture you emotionally, you have the freedom of choice to response in whatever way within your conscience. For someone people, it is their conscience to murder them to others, it will be different.

You might have agreed with your own free-will not to murder him as you know the consequences that lead after such action.
I see only such set of rules just a recommendation.

Probably, the author should clarify such in an updated version of e-book rather than discuss in the reader forum. I will inform him of such.I understand that the set of rules give some sort of contradiction of the understanding of freedom of choice if no clarification is given.

When agreement of such 'rules' are given individual free-will, no anger and annoyance are provoked in the process. We are all working towards maximazing love.

The so called "Universal laws" are the observation and the mechasnism of the universe which can be proven by keen observers. After much proven by their own minds and observations, they agree with their free-will that this is the 'universal laws'.

Spoon-feed 'truth' is just beliefs which are extremeely determental to the minds. To know is to understand, to understand is to observe and verify by your own minds and your own experience. It is the philosophy of Buddhism.

How can a book prohibit you doing what you can do? Who enforce the prohibition?

The book doesn't recommend the use of hallucinational drugs to achive altered consciousness. Do you know why hallucinational drugs  are dangerous and meditation are not? I cannot enforce or prohibit the use of such drugs from other people. They themselves are the person who can enforce themselves if they choose to do so or althernatively choose to take hard drugs as whatever reasons in their minds that justify such actions.

I don't attach much into the alien stuff. Some of the history of the earth is too hard to be proven by myself. I prefer something more practical, something where the proof can easily exist in one mind through observation and gaining understanding.

I will state all the 'contradictions' you mentioned to the author so that people wouldn't misunderstand the messages. I understand why you see such the contradictions. Thanks for pointing it you so that a better and more clearer message can be included in the e-book.

[bomohwkl]

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Sometimes the "law" is a result of wisdom acquired as a result of making mistakes for many generations.

When the "rule" prevents people from suffering (such as suffering food shortages because of overpopulation) - intelligent people agree with such a rule by their own Free Will.

The most important is to EXPLAIN the REASON for the "rule" so that people have a CHOICE to adopt it by their own Free Will. Witout a sensible explanation any rule, including "do not kill", can be a seen as a severe restriction of the Freedom of Choice.

The same principle applies in the entire Universe. We have the Freedom of Choice, but certain choices are more sensible than others. Rules (such as 10 commandments for example) should be seen as "advice" of how to make choices in order to avoid suffering and make progress.

(C) Tom Chalko

[vesselinpeev]

Good quote, bomohkwl.

RJA, in both books the advice applies to hallucinogenic drugs only.
Neither Michel nor Tom claim to have all the answers, far from it. It may be your perception that they are even after world domination, but you won't find any such aspirations directly in any sentence or word in either book. And according to me, no such aspirations are implied either. I am sure bomohwkl completely agrees with me.
Michel currently lives in the Vietnamese jungle, away from civilization. Tom Chalko resides at Mt. Best, Australia, and from what I've gathered from my frequent contacts with him, he has written the book without ulterior motives and out of a desire to find more intelligent people to communicate with.

Warmest regards,
Vesko

[Nybster]

i like the way tom charko convince the reader that they should abandon their  old rules, but it gives me the diarrhea when he tries to set rules of his own for people to follow.

quote:Originally posted by bomohwkl

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Rules (such as 10 commandments for example) should be seen as "advice" of how to make choices in order to avoid suffering and make progress. [/i]

(C) Tom Chalko