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Druidism

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Gandalf

Hi Ossian!

Thanks for your post, very interesting!

I agree with you that Wicca and Neo-Druidism have only a limited conection with old pagan practices. Wicca esp. has no great connection as you say.

neo-Druidism has slightly more, or at least is on the right track, as although we cannot re-construct all the specific rituals and beliefs, we do have soem basic notions and a 'framework' to work with, and the two basic precepts:  of aquiring knowledge or lore and respecting the earth, can be used as foundations with which to build on.
So although neo-Druidism is new, a good proportion of its 'spirit' is certainly old and provides a good framework to construct a 'new druidism'.

I would just like to note that I have no problem with Wicca or any other neo-pagan system. Even if they are all new, they all contain at least some original 'sentiment' as it were. To criticise Wicca because Gardner made it all up or whatever is unsound, since Wicca has moved on and has continued to develop since then, and as one wiccan pointed out, if religions were all rated on their *historical truths*, then all religions, Christianity included, would be undermined. However, it is not about historical origins, it is about a way of life and viewing the world.

Concerning the Celts,
Thanks for your description of the Celtic/Aryan migration theory. I was wanting to ask you what you thought of the other theory that is doing the rounds at the moment, esp in academic circles:
ie this is the 'celtic culture theory', which reckons that there was no large scale migration as such, rather the celts were the same people who had always been there (at least since neolithic times) but that it was the *Celtic culture itself* which spread, being formulated in the Latiene(?) region in modern Switzerland, and then spreading across Europe, possibly through trade. Celtic culture was essentially a fashion (a set of ideas inc. culture/art/religion) which was quickly picked up by people as it spread until by around 500BC, most of Central and western Europe had adopted celtic culture.
This accounts for all the regional differences.

A half-way house between this theory and the earlier one is that perhaps there WAS a spread of ideas and culture but ALSO it was assisted by SOME small scale migrations which helped spread these ideas.

Certainly it has been postulated for some time that the 'aryan group' actually refers to a language group rather than a people. This was known before the War, however, Hitler got the wrong end of the stick and thought it refered to people, in fact many thouht this, even in Britain and the US.  This language group spread from india into the west.
This would be consistent with the concept of the Celtic culture being a spread of ideas rather than people.

What do you think?

Douglas



"It is to Scotland that we look for our idea of civilisation." -- Voltaire.

LLywelyn ap Gruffudd

Regardless of druidism I write to correct "Cailin's misrepresentation os eltic hitory. Gaelic is not equivelant to celtic linguistically. Welsh is the descendant of the language spoken across England and lowlands Scotland fom 4c onwards, this Brythonic tongue became today's Welsh, the poetry of Aneurin and Talieisn would testify to this. Also the Celtic/Brythonic kings pushed westwards by the invading Germanic tribes, settled in Wales, and linguistically their languages were not Gaelic but old Welsh and researched academic study will reveal this.
Secondly Welsh is the strongest of the Celtic languages, seeing as Irish GAelic is dead as a community language, whereas welsh is the community language for most of rural Wales exculding the cities, acaing reading academic sources would prove my point yet again.
I suggest people read, and not take thier facts from the internet what Cailin seems to have done.

cailin

First of all I do not get my facts from the internet.
Secondly, what I have noticed with this discussion is that people always have their history, you are now saying that Welsh is the main language and that the Irish language is dead, have you ever been to ireland?
Everybody is proud of their heritage but it doesnt mean that Wales or Irelnd was the crux and beginning of it all.(Gealic or Celts)Everything is connected and people and countries including different academics all have different points and accounts which does'nt nescessarily mean that one person does'nt know what they are saying.
All countries have their own history, including you and me, which is very obvious.
"Welsh is the strongest of the celtic languages" ok fine, the fact that your from Wales has nothing to do with it I suppose!
What I am guilty of is not being specific enough with my words, I dont confess to know everything about all of this but am very interested, that is why I am in this discussion- TO LEARN so I really dont think that insulting me  is the way to go as it's a bit off putting to come back and learn more, I'm just intersted thats all and trying to add my bit of information, so dont be so hard on me .

Haematite

Hi[:)]
I'm interested in druidism and can suggest one good site I found recently:   http://www.wicca.com/    
I'm not so good in facts so I'm not going to talk about that. I'm reading these days one book also connected with the topic: Andy Baggott " Celtic Wisdom" . And I'll disciss it later.
Best regards[:)]


DragonUnleashed

Yes well. I can see that evreybody here knows a lot.
It wouldnt be fair no matter what religion you are to compare.
That is in fact Hypocritical. I can say mine is better than yours. But in way like Wicca has no great connection. Excuse me?
There is no way anyone can say that since all religions have the same connection. I dont care what people say after this post. But if you say that then you are a hypocrite to me and your then comparing which is no point. Since everybodys religion has a huge connection regardless if your a Druid Wiccan Christian.
I just dont like the fact you COMPARE whereas in all religions it mostly says in one way or another that you shouldnt.
Wicca to me has a big connection so does Druidism and Witchcraft.
Since Wicca is very close to Witchcraft as i have been studying both.
Thank you and could you please refrain from comparing other religions as it could offend many other wiccans.

galacticsurfer

Wow am I ever learning a lot here!

I read a German lanquage study of the spread of Christianity through Irish monks across Europe in the early middle ages a couple of years ago.

I am proud of my own Irish heritage(yankee with Irish passport) and sad about the disappearance of the old culture at the hands of Julius Caesar and then the Catholic church and later the English but well we are adaptable.

I have studied lots of world religions and their techniques and philosophy and am generally interested in my own roots as we all are here obviously. Maybe if I were a druid in a previous life and could have a hypnotic regression I could catch enough of the feel of it to make some sense of what was going on back then. Of course I am only partly joking as the arguments and distortions from a couple thousand years of history seem to make it hard to see what was really happening. Maybe our celticness(of the diaspora at least) has just been reduced to "kiss me I'm Irish" buttons on St. Pats day in America. Otherwise obviously Celtic authors and artists and scientists have been very important and there are maybe 100 million celtic descendants alive in the world and perhaps French really is just a mixed language as said above. A dying culture/people? No way!
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Anonymous

The Druids were indeed more than priestly magicians and despite the cover-up that includes the fictions I have read here about Ogham starting in 400 AD or even BC the truth is it was they who Strabo knew had a 7000 year written history. It was the Bairds who kept this history and it is a Baird (me) who pierces the veil of history today in a book called Diverse Druids that the person referring to an author named Benson (here) might well be reading. Yes, it is heavy sledding and makes one have to research and check facts because the likes of Rome/Britain (both founded by Bruttii) and Caesars have put bounties on the heads of The Brotherhood.

BlackBox

I think this article is very informative on the "Druids".

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/article-lkj-04-03-06-k.htm

Gandalf

I guess I was just a bit annoyed when one poster made the sweeping statement that while Gailic is still found in Ireland it was killed off in England and 'no longer exists on that Island'.

er... excuse me, I live in Scotland, which is part of 'that island'.
Yes thats right 'England' does NOT refer to the whole island of Britain but only to the southern kingdom of the island, the north is a seperate country called Scotland (who for economic and political reasons have entered into an *equal* political partnership called the 'United Kingdom' or 'Great Britain'); however they are still seperate cultures.

Yes, I know some of this is pretty basic stuff but not everyone is aware of it.

Anyway, I can assure you that Scottish Gailic *IS* still spoken as a first language (as well as english) in some part of the highlands and is a LIVING language. The new Scottish parliament has also made a comitment to bring in more Gailic tv programs etc.

As far as I know, this is quite different from Irelend, in which irish Gailic is not spoken as a first language anywhere as far as I am aware (correct me if Im wrong), other than some basics being learned by rote at school.

Regards,
Douglas




"It is to Scotland that we look for our idea of civilisation." -- Voltaire.

Anonymous

History is prologue to the present as thought is to action.
Our socially accepted 'norms' or acts often determine how average people think – based on the propaganda presented as fact. These supposed facts of history are revised to suit attitudes of the prevailing paradigm. Reading about Cleopatra in the words of Lucy Hughes-Hallet will make the point clear to anyone; she presents an alchemist or temptress to seem either evil or laudatory depending on many social imperatives in different centuries. The same is true with Jesus and there are many good books written by Rabbis or other scholars to demonstrate that issue, which repeats like cucumbers on a full stomach. Marshall McLuhan made an interesting observation about the person who controls the media for 15 years. He said if he was given that power he would control all society. His recent biographer says McLuhan knew about secret societies who own or control the very media and society we live in.
It is a multi-layered management that many popes, kings and professors have mistakenly thought they were in charge of, but later were seen to be operating according to a larger plan. The Bilderbergs are not the most powerful, or at the top of the mountain, but whoever organizes their seminars and information is an important person. Whenever powerful people seek to come to common ground it can easily be seen as a good thing. There is no good reason to reject such efforts that take place every year at hotels owned by the Rothschild family, unless we know what they do. In the absence of facts we must look to history or the outcome of the supposed plans (or lack thereof) that such people agree to implement. Shortly after the Trojan World War in 1200 BC a similar and probably similarly structured meeting (by the ancestors of the Rothschilds) took place off Miletus. They were called the Perpetual Sailors and as members of the Phoenician Brotherhood had been around since Ba'albek and before the Pyramids.
Those who run the bureaucracy or act as political 'stooges' and 'fronts' for these plans include the likes of Napoleon and Hitler. But the history we are told about, seldom explores how these supposed dictators were put in power and how they were managed or 'handled'. Hitler was a Jew and lived as one in Vienna; according to the report made for the top dog of US Intelligence (is that an oxymoron?), Wild Bill Donovan. This book written by a psychiatrist leaves out all evidence of any spiritual or occult specialties employed by Hitler or his handlers. I assure you Professor Horbiger, Himmler, Eckhart and others were adept in matters of the occult ('oc'= 'not', a cult). This book is called The Mind of Adolf Hitler: The Secret Wartime Report, and it makes it very apparent Hitler was related to the Rothschilds: but it doesn't explain who these people were before they took their name from the 'red shield' in front of Meyer Amschel Rothschild's father's hotel just a century before Adolf's father went to study in Vienna. Vienna is the place Salomon Rothschild had run his part of the Rothschild financial EMPIRE.
The U.S. and the whole supposed Free World were anti-Semitic as the movie Ship of Fools does indicate. We are scapegoating Germans to this very day. The truth about the Jews is not even known to the Jews themselves. There is no homogeneous Jewish people who came from a genetic group separate from all other white people. Their 'Lost Tribes' and Bible Narratives are an affront to reality or mere propaganda that became managed by Rome. The holocausts include the 'brothers' of the Jews – Ukrainians, Armenians and Irish etc. In fact even in the 20th Century the attempted genocide of the Jewish people was not as bad as what happened to the Ukrainian people perpetrated by our ally, Stalin. The Aryan fiction was used by political forces to create a war. The Jews are the high priests or at least the 'arch-tectons' (architect, and the title of Jesus and Joseph in the early Bible called the Septuagint) of the Pyramid. The Father of Biblical Archaeology, W.F.Albright, states that the Bible 'is a Phoenician literary legacy'. Aryan can be shown derived from 'Eire-yann' or the Keltic people (including the Germanic Teutons) whose spiritual center was Tara in Ireland (for at least a millennia in a far longer period of influence). These are the builders of the Pyramid who Moses led out of Egypt as the story goes. The language of Hebrew was the sacerdotal code of these 'arch-tectons' who knew knowledge in the hands of the power-mongers could be harmful. Thus we have the name for the Hebrews who are part of the Jewish 'Brotherhood'.
Genetics is a record that the Empire-builders could not fully eradicate. They did an excellent job ridding the world of knowledge in books or libraries like Alexandria, Bangor and the Mayan lands. Genetics now shows a Haplogroup X marker which allows us to know all white men including many North American Indians like the Sioux, started out near the Caucasus Mountains 30-35,000 years ago. Linguistics and other archaeological tools such as forensic analysis of corpses hooked on cocaine (from Peru) in Egypt (see Balabanova and various TV specials); has made the ongoing history of Empire and man far from palatable or believable. Hellenizing usurpers of previous cultural and technical knowledge was not so much the intent of the Greeks who honoured the 'ancient ones' they called 'Keltoi' and 'ogygia'. It was the enslaving barbarians of Rome who enjoyed their 'sport' in their arenas who really refined this prejudice. They had the audacity to call the Berbers – 'Berberoi' or 'barbarians' even before they ripped off their own people by creating Caesar and later as they made Churchianity the true Roman Empire.
Our sovereign nations are founded on concepts of 'Manifest Destiny' (While they give their cronies 'Manifest Subsidy') and such perversion as allowed the British to colonize India or force opium upon the more sophisticated and cultured civilizations such as China. The Treaty of Tordesillas dictated by Pope Alexander VI was the significant starting point of a plan to expand the Inquisition. I wonder if kids today learn about it in school. I know I didn't. This Pope was a Borgia and related to the De Medici's who were then in charge of the finance monopoly that had once been the Templar 'fatted calf'. Could the De Medici's have passed their monopoly on to the Rothschild's? Yes, indeed, if you look to the place Meyer Amschel Rothschild lived and worked as the chief financial guru; you find it was the Hesse family castle. This is the same place where a De Medici favourite 'son' by the name of St. Germain spent a lot of time. At the time of the founding of the Jesuits you will find the Borgias donate their first University, which implemented full scale teaching of St. Thomas Aquinas.
The De Medici matron Catherine was the protector of another Jesuit named Nostradamus. The Alumbrados were the secret society within the Jesuit Order and they may even have founded it in the style of the Priory of Sion founding the Templars and Knights Malta five centuries before. It is reasonable to suspect that Nostradamus was a member of this esoteric inner sanctum. Nostradamus, Aquinas and St. Germain are three of the most knowledgeable alchemists this history has ever known. You will see that alchemy comes from or was akin to Druidism in this book.
When the Pope apologized for two millennia of 'heinous acts' in 1999 while asking for 'forgiveness and renewal' he did not mention the Thomists are still a major force in his Order. He might be a rare person interested in explaining these things to you, but he is not allowed to go into such details (perhaps for legal reasons). You should have facts before you make determinations or start the decision-making process. However, you have not been allowed to know the facts and we have all been kept in the dark far past the Dark Ages created by these people who keep knowledge (power) to themselves. Despite his 'goodness' the Catholic Church and their Anglican henchmen were named as the creators of the near genocide in Rwanda, by an International Commission and the Organization of African Unity. The same thing is still true in Ireland where all culture of old was forced and policed out of the Irish people over the last three centuries after a millennium of war. In fact when the Pope said there is no such place as Heaven or Hell his priests in Toronto suggested to their parishioners that he was old and feeble. The prejudices that run rampant in our civilization are directly attributable to theocratic ecclesiasties. They have done worse things to women ever since Hammurabi decreed a woman is the property of her father until she is sold to her husband.
Theocracy has been a tool of noble or monarchist families and philosophy was often controlled by these theocracies from the time of Plato to Bertrand Russell. How much blame can we lay at their feet for allowing women to be abused to the extent they are? Today more women wear berkas or saris in the house/prison of their father/husband than are free to go topless or wear a mini-skirt. Yet the Kelts often went naked on hot days – so we are told they were 'barbarian'!
There are many secrets and intrigues of old that have simply donned an overcoat of propriety. We will demonstrate the Druids and their 'Red Headed League of Megalith Builders' or Tuatha De Danaan are the likely originators of all religion. This Source of the teaching of Jesus and 'Brotherhood' could be re-energized just as Jesus tried to do before others put words in his mouth after he died. The mummies found near the present day Great Wall of China and those of the Aleutian Islands are just some of the 'giants' we will show were part of this 'Brotherhood of Iesa' (Hesous or Jesus). They were on Malta before they built the Pyramid of Iesa and here we find archaeology shows 2800 years with no weapons. They were Chaos Scientists 13,000 years ago and keen observers of nature (God or Reality) for a long time before they met the older modern man we've found near Lake Mungo in Australia.
Nostradamus was a member of an even more ancient and secret inner sanctum called the 'Sons of the Widow' according to The Secrets of Nostradamus by David Ovason. He also says he was an initiate of the Hibernian Mysteries and an expert in the Green Languages derived from the 'Language of the Trees'. I know this language relates to the Bards (BRD in vowel less early tracts or alphabets) whose Troubadours of Cathar times he was born amongst their recent remains, caused by the Crusades of the Dominican 'Hounds of God'. Ovason has a good handle on the Irish part of the equation and the Bardic Tradition. He says the 'Sons' were followers of the Biblical Miriam who he shows is the Masonic Hiram through these cryptic or coded languages. I think there was an earlier widow that Manetho places at the very beginning of the genetic foundation of white people 35,000 years ago. This is when Manetho says Isis founded the Egyptian colony. Manetho pandered to Ptolemy in his history which has played an important part in the Bible Narrative, so that is not the best of sources. A web site with insight to how these codes were part of the Languages of the Birds or Bards (Ogham) is found at http://users.gloryroad.net/~bigjim/GreenLang.htm.  
  The Bardic 'verbal tradition' is kin to the Qabala, Tao and shamanic systems throughout the world. Scientific American and National Geographic know North America (Jan/Feb 2001 issues) was visited from 30,000 years ago by Europeans. The degree of world trade has not been addressed in any major academic institution I know about, although Prof. Cyclone Covey at Wake Forest and Steve Omar in Hawaii join Fell, Kelley and others in addressing what we will cover to some extent, again. Ovason says the following on page 383 of his book that explodes all the previous poor scholarship dealing with Nostradamus.
    "There is even some indication that the mystery schools of Imperial Rome had ordained that Ireland should remain untouched as an un-Romanized periphery on the edge of the map of the Imperium. It was intended by the initiation schools {who go back to a re-organization by Tuthmosis in Egypt and before.} that this map would correspond to the future Christian world. It had been part of the destiny of Rome to establish the ground for the development of the spiritual mysteries of the future – which was to be the new initiation schools of Christianity. {Thus St. Columba said 'Christ is the new Druid'.} Although the Roman soldiery did reach Ireland, they did not take over its cultural life, nor destroy its Druidic priestcraft, in the way they seemed to have destroyed it in England, Scotland and (to a lesser extent) Wales. Thus, something of the great pre-Christian mystery wisdom survived in Ireland, and it was for this reason that it continued as the main esoteric centre of European cultural life. This is why Ireland became a refuge for esoteric Christianity {through languages like Uncial they created many Bible myths or dogma and the language Insular they developed grew into English.} – for what we might even term pre-Roman Christianity. What we now tend to see romantically, through the eyes of later poets, as the twilight of  the Celts was really the dawn of esoteric Christianity, which has yet to speak in the future of Europe. {Hitler tried to bring this forward in a perverse manner as he called himself 'the torch-bearer of Jesus'.} The ancient Druidic wisdom which had served the soul-life of the North, had already begun to give way to, or integrate with, the Christian Mysteries – to those mysteries which we would probably now call Celtic Christianity."
And the Rosicrucians of the Masonic Lodges have maintained much of the ritual and knowledge even if most of them are not able to decode the rituals, symbols and words they speak. It may surprise some people to see German historian C. Besoldus (1577-1638) claiming that the name Huns came from a Celtic word meaning 'Great Magicians'. Surely this is what the Druids and 'smiths' were able to do. They were even able to create spiritual visions of such force that whole armies would shudder and quake, then run from the field of battle. This book is much more than a statement on the nature of propaganda and yet it can only begin to cover all our human potential might have allowed or might yet allow.
In 2003 the Y chromosome research confirmed the Irish, Welsh, Basque and North Americans are the same people, long after I had written this book and predicted this would be proven.

Gandalf

In 2003 the Y chromosome research confirmed the Irish, Welsh, Basque and North Americans are the same people, long after I had written this book and predicted this would be proven.


And what about Scottish?

Douglas
"It is to Scotland that we look for our idea of civilisation." -- Voltaire.

Beth

This thread is specifically designed to discuss and explore Druidism.

I know very little about this religion, but I would love to learn!

If anyone knows of the practice and belief of Druidism, please begin this thread.

I will check in so I can get the scoop!

Peace,
Beth
Become a Critical Thinker!
"Ignorance is the greatest of all sins."
                   --Origen of Alexandria