The truth about OOBES and what they really are.

[T.L.]

First I want to start with what you said that projection (oobe's) are going against god. I will forget the god part though (I have my own beliefs), since childhood we were conditioned by school,parents,church to believe that the physical is all there is till we physically die. The child that has an obe, or sees a spirit is told that it was only a dream when the child is crying into his/her mothers arms. Once in the "conditioned state" the young person lets go of all the experiences he/she has had and forgets them as fast as one forgets dreams upon awakening. The reason oobe's are so common amongst children is because as adults we already went through the conditioning of the physical.
As for proof, lol he wants proof, I suggest you stop looking at all the popular books, and popular experiments as the charles tart Mr. X (monroe), miss z accounts. Look for the ones that were never really popular such as the ingo swann, and especially the alex tanous experiments in 1978. Alex T. claimed to have oobe's so he was put to the test. In another room or building a scientist set up a device that produced an optical illusion for one to see the illusion or target one would have to be eye level in front of this device. At eyelevel of the device they hooked up vibration/motion sensors. The first few trials alex told the scientists that he has successfully been in the room with the target but realized his projected self wasnt tall enough to be eyelevel with the device. Slightly confused to his explaination the scientists obliged with placing a stepping stool in front of the device.
Within the next trials it took a turn for the better. Alex Tanous correctly identified the illusion (target) over and over again and each time he successfully identified the target the motion/vibration sensors readouts were positive for movement each and everytime. At the end of the trials he correctly identified the target 114 times out of 197 (which also includes when there was no stepping stool in front of the device) and out of those 114 times he correctly identified the target each and everytime the sensors were positive for movement/vibrations every time, and the times he couldnt get eye level the them (the sensors)the readouts shown significantly less movement/vibrations. That should be enough proof for anyone, but even presented with actual physical proof still no one would believe so the studies were just forgotten. So I guess the moral is stop trying to prove things to people that are never going to believe even if they see it with their own eyes.
Dont take my word for it, go ahead and do a search online for the experiments (I have the results in a book but I am sure they are online some where).
Studies of this kind werent held after this for some reason it just was forgotten and I guess it never occured to try this again especially with all the better technology that is out. Whether this is good enough for you or not is up to you. I believe that you never experienced a projection yourself, when you project you will know it is real and no one will ever be able to tell you otherwise. When you have a lucid dream you know it was just a dream. I believe you mistaken a wake initiated lucid dream for a projection, you wouldnt be alone about 20 percent of would be projectors think that their "wilds" were projections then believe that projections aren't real because of their experiences with "wilds" leads them to believe that the "projections" were just very lucid dreams.
Take care man. Good luck with whatever you do. Regards,
                                                 T.L.

[ImmuredSoul]

Kudos[]

[BOATS]

I know I was having Lucid Dreams where I was Astral Projecting and was thinking this was the OBE that people were talking about. I then experienced a AP where I found myself in my bedroom after a exit that I had no memory of.  I then began to relize that this was for me the proof of AP and Life after death even if I never had another.  I will read the information on Ingo Swann as I have heard the name before.  Also Alex Tanous.

[Sampson]

I have been having Oobe experiences intentionally on and off now for the past four to five months, I also experienced some when I was younger but these were unintentional and I didn't really recognise them for what they were at the time.

I don't profess to know what the phenomena is, I just know that it is life changing when it happens, I am actually extremely surprised that it is not talked about or reported more frequently?

The difference for me between Oobe's and dreams is totally clear. The sensations that accompany an Oobe are completely unlike anything that I experience while dreaming.

To experience the exit noises (tearing velcro sound), the pulling away from the body, and the change in my conscious dimensions (feeling smaller, about the size of a tennis ball) really has to be experienced to be believed.

When I dream I always remember all of the details, colours, sounds, tastes, things said to me, situations etc, I would never describe these as lucid dreams though as I have never been able to change something within the dream I just seem to be going with it, maybe this will change though?

For me it either appears to be a Dream or an Oobe but nothing in between, I had a lengthy dream just three days ago one of the details of which was that I was putting a copy of Astral Dynamics into a rucksack, in the clear light of day I have to ask myself why wasn't that enough of a trigger to induce even the slightest lucidity? perhaps it's a question of the level of consciousness whilst dreaming?

I understand that if you have never experienced this then it is easy to be sceptical and brush it off as a special type of lucid dream, I was sceptical too, I wasn't a believer or a disbeliever I was just open to all of the possibilities.

I agree with T.L. on what he said about the conditioning, it is easy to be conditioned by outside influences or to even condition oneself knowingly or even unknowingly (perhaps that is what Oobes are a result of in some respect?)

By the way Ingo Swann as referred to in T.L's post has a very interesting website with many articles free to read, some are quite Jargon heavy but they make a very interesting read, here is the link http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/

I really hope that you do get to have an Oobe, once you have experienced those sensations you really won't have any more doubts.

[dkj400]

quote:SO iam awake why must i be unconsious to have a oobe?? why cant i have one when iam fully aware and wantto come out of my body.

[V] you CAN! You don't have to be unconcious. You can project and do whatever and back at home your physical body could be watching TV. This happens when you miss the projection exit and so don't realise you have projected. At this stage you control your physical body. When your astral body returns all the memories of its experience are transferred or exchanged with the physical body. Then you realise that you had projected and have memories of what you did. It's called the mind split because you basically have two minds.

Now people who have learned to adapt with the mind split can be concious of both bodies at once.

[T.L.]

There is one more point I would like to tell that scott guy or whatever his name was. Lets say I take a few of my dreams and compare them to yours, nothing in my dream will match up with yours nothing not even the type of clothes I wore in the dream or the buildings I seen in my dreams. Because of the complexities of dreams its next to impossible to have dreams that will have something in them that match up with yours. That is how you tell dreams from oobe's. Even Charles Lindbergh has admitted to having an oobe. He also mentioned he seen a cord that came from somewhere on his back that ran down to the plane he was flying at the time and connected to his body. Note that in his time oobe's werent publicized at all like today and not many people knew about them short of the ones who experienced it.
Millions of people who have never read up on oobe's also talk about sensations and even the "silver cord" that supposedly attaches you to your physical body. If oobe's were simply dreams theres no way that millions of people experience the same exact things and see exactly the same things while out of the body, not unless it was some kind of mass delusion. That is the difference between oobe's and dreams each obe experience from people from different walks of life always seem to match up with someone elses accounts of their oobe experiences, whereas dreams wont even have one aspect that matches up with someone elses dream. Just do better research than reading peoples posts, read up on the past people who have experienced projections and the present and you will notice that aspects of ones accounts from the past will match up with accounts of people from the present.

"For me it either appears to be a Dream or an Oobe but nothing in between, I had a lengthy dream just three days ago one of the details of which was that I was putting a copy of Astral Dynamics into a rucksack, in the clear light of day I have to ask myself why wasn't that enough of a trigger to induce even the slightest lucidity? perhaps it's a question of the level of consciousness whilst dreaming?"
Yes when people speak of how to have lucid dreams or when you look at methods for lucid dreams you always seem to see the people who are posting say "Just look at your hands and if they melt or change then you will know you are dreaming" "Look at words and if they change before your eyes you will know you're dreaming"...etc What they dont realize is they already have some of their awareness/consciousness in their dreams for them to even be able to do more than just spectate. So yes you have to have some form of awareness/consciousness to be able to do what most mention. For me I am the worste kind of dreamer, although I have really good dream recall (I can remember up to 2-3 dreams per night) I have no form of awareness/consciousness in my dreams what so ever. The only thing I can do is spectate, most of the time I am seeing through my eyes but I do not control myself just watch things happening to myself.
So the trick is for people like me to create some kind of habit that will carry over to your dreams and just hope for your awareness to kick in. Some say that constantly asking yourself if you are dreaming when you are awake will carry over and they say this works really well after a while. The thing is in my dreams there are no dream signs like if I am in my dream and I am flying it all seems possible and not out of the ordinary, the reason why that is is because in my dreams I dont know who I am in real life and I attain none of my physical life memories in my dreams, so in my dreams that is the only world to me so every thing seems normal no matter what happens. So to say the least this will not work for me either.
I did find something that worked for me although it was by accident and while trying to project, and I will explain it here for people like myself to read and learn from. Okay go about your astral projection method and get to the sleep border. You will know you are there when you here voices,music,etc or for some you will also see things and images (hypnagogic images). Okay once in that state it wont take you long to pass out (fall asleep) if you are not careful. Now once there slowly and I mean slowly lower yourself into closer to being asleep, whatever way you wish. Just clear your mind and relax more to do so keeping no thought what so ever. Now when the images hit you be a little more than passive, dont let them just fly by. Look at them and observe and if applicable interact a little not too much just a little, its like flirting with sleep once you do that you will get deeper and the images will be more frequent.
Once you are in the desired state (the state I want you to be in) you will notice that you will lose seconds like you will forget what just happened which by that alone you will know you lost awareness/consciousness for a second or so and then you will gain all that awareness back, then once again do that same thing. Dont lower yourself too far or you will pass out not to have your awareness kick back in, if  you do it right you will notice you drift off and then as fast as you drift off your consciousness will kick back in. I think the reason is, is because you are not close enough to the sleeping state that your subconscious hands over control back to your consciousness, whatever the reason just go with it.
Keep that state (difting in and out) going as long as  you can, if you have the will power you will be able to do this for a half hour to an hour without falling asleep. After you drift in and out of consciousness for around a half hour or 10-15 times finally let yourself just fall asleep. Once you hit the last stage or two of your REM cycle (and withing the first five minutes of your dream, I mean five minutes as in dream time it will feel like five minutes) and once in your dream your awareness can and will automatically kick in and you will be more lucid than you ever thought possible. The habit of gaining your awareness/consciousness back after drifting off carries over into your REM/dream cycle.
I know it will work for just about anyone as like I said I am the least aware when I am dreaming and I have had a few lucid dreams by doing this. The thing is you will have to keep doing it in order for your awareness to kick in in your dreams. After doing what I told you to do I had lucid dreams for two days in a row, but after that they stopped so everytime you want to have a lucid dream you will have to do this before you go to sleep. For some once they have a lucid dream they will experience them again and again with no effort. But give this a try and let me know how it works out. Take care,
                                                   T.L.

[Sctt859]

Ok, maybe i dont know what iam saying is wrong or maybe i should just hit you guys in the head with a brick. Im NOt saying DREAMS AND OOBES ARE THE SAME THING, ALl Iam saying is dreams and Oobes share the same qualities as sleep. iam saying sleep branches to many different areas. Maybe a oobe is a advance form of sleep or an very advance dream.

I just dont beleve it branches to anything physical or spiritual.

[T.L.]

You missed my point completely. If oobe's were just advanced sleep/dreams then people wouldn't report seeing the same things, and when I say people I mean millions of people. Its like me seeing an imaginary building with a made up name in my dream and millions of other people report seeing the same building with the same name, as you see that is not very likely. I shouldn't of even dignified your last post with a reply as you completely looked over the point. You just have to see it logically, there is no way that millions of people would see the same thing when out of the body if it was only a a "advanced" dream/sleep, unless of course it was a mass delusion and that later is not ever likely. I do feel bad for you when your time comes and you are too attached to the physical. Research more and really look dont glance over the tiniest sentence as it may contain important information. Regards,
                              T.L.

[Dream Cadet]

To Sctt859

Before I bow to the great one, I would like to know one thing...Do you or don't you?

quote:http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12281


Posted - 22 May 2004 : 13:54:15      

This is wierd too about 3 - 4 years ago i had a OOBE where this big shadowy figure was throwing me and hitting me around the room too can any one explain this?

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12298

Posted - 23 May 2004 : 02:24:47

After i have my oobe i dont know whos watching me, is the mail man watching me?? And i dont feel safe any more ooo what a mess, i dont know whos watching me now, maybe the IRS??? Please some tell me if my OOBE is just a dream?



http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12279

22 May 2004 : 06:10:03      

haha.. accctually i never projected before i didnt know you could even project and create things till i read this site thursay.. When i would have a OOBE i would just be in Paralize mode i would be so scared i would jerk or move my body real hard to go back to my physical form, but now that i can get into paralize form easy that means i can project easy meaning iam 1 step away from owning the astral plane and YOU SHALL ALL BOW TO ME!!! lol jus a lil rpging =/

To everyone else,

If you fertilize this, it grows.  Remember Audry2 in "Little shop of Horrors"?

Good Day All,

D.C.

[Nay]

Thank you Dream cadet, I have seen that most of his post are contradictory to say the least...I appreciate you looking some up..[^]

Scott, please read my PM and take it very seriously.

Nay

[T.L.]

Holy crap scott you contradict yourself more times than the bible. You say you do then you dont. You say its real then its not. My previous guess holds up you never projected before, so you dont have enough experience to say that its not real. Like I said search and research, experiment and experience. Then come back here and say if you think its a dream or not. That was entertaining thanks for the links to his previous posts. Good luck scott.

[weetabix]

LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sory for all of you guys, but I really make fun of you !  It's always interesting to see people's misunderstood.  But I hate when it goes too far... I should have read this topic before, anyway... I'm here !

First, I would say to the author of this topic (Sctt859) that I agree with him...    But you should have explained a little more.  

Here what I've understood.  Obe has the same aspect of a dream with the difference that you have control of it.  Alright !  I couldn't say better.  Why does people seem to disagree !?  Oh dammit !  That's it, Nobody know what is a DREAM... Please Sctt859, Take care of how you say things.[V]  

The first argument to discredit an Obe is to compare it to a dream... And it's why we got all that "bleep" into this topic.  (Some points was interesting, but most was out of the track [])

When we think about dream, we immediately reffer to a product of our brain, a pure immagination.  It's a cute materialistic way to see it !  But it's not the only one...

I don't know why, but I'm absolutely sure it wasn't what Sctt859 would say.  Would you !?  

So now, I can argue with you... []
I believe that our physical world, dream world and Astral world as your "realm" world (I put it into quotation mark 'cause I've never use it...) are all as much real as a blink.  It doesn't mean anything, I know. [] It's just to put them in the same line of equality.  

Your point is that spirits can't really go out (up to the realms) until we die.  Hope you'll not try to kill yourself to verify it. [:O] The problem is that I believe in Reincarnation... so, in my opinion, we not actualy go "there" just by dying.  It's not so simple... Go through these realities is (still in my opinion) a matter of conscience level.  

Enough said ! [8] There's no offence, there's only apologize !


PS to T.L. (a friendly piece of advice): do you never breath !?  I mean, won't you put some blank in your post, cause it's hard to read.  Thanks !

[T.L.]

I can see what you mean, in that some obes share the same properties as dreams. The thing is some people have lucid dreams that are so convincing they might think it was a projection, the same thing goes for wake initiated lucid dreams and even more so.
So honestly unless you have experienced it for yourself you might not know the difference at first.

As for you saying we do not go to realms or whatever till the reincarnation period ends. I too believe in reincarnation because of a few things I have experienced for myself, and memories I have embedded with my physical life memories of this life, but I look at it differently than what most people do that believe in reincarnation.

They think its a never ending cycle until you gain some form of control and are able to stop it. Some also seem to think that immediately after we die we are reborn, or a very short period after death they are. I believe that we chose to live again and or not forced to. Once you can get to a certain point you have a few options/paths you can take and one happens to involve living in the physical again. We may take this path because there are experience and knowledge we havent found yet in past lives so we go for it again, the catch is we wont know who we really are till we are die again physically.

Automatically assuming things is a mistake as we wont know till we die, so I too could be wrong but I think I have part if not half right. Know one is a hundred percent correct just because of the complexities along would be too much for one human mind to comprehend. lol yes I do breath I usually type very fast and dont feel the need to add spacing. I am not writing a book here and grammar can be sub-par I havent seen any rules against bad grammar, come on really its an online forum. If you can control your eyes to enough to read sentences next to each other without your sight skipping a few lines down then its a problem for you, see an optometrist. They have these non prescription glasses that are tinted with soft colours that help that problem. For this post I obliged though.

I think so fast so to keep up I just type as fast as humanly possible so I dont forget anything. Oh yes I almost forgot, there was someone on here talking about difficulty having lucid dreams the past three hours I went to sleep and I found something out just pm me. Most people here dont like my ideas or theories so I will just tell you. No need to express ideas and techniques here, when people dont want me to type because they cant control their eyes properly. Take care to the rest of you. I wish all of you luck with whatever you do.

[weetabix]

quote:Originally posted by T.L.
[...]the catch is we wont know who we really are till we are die again physically.

Automatically assuming things is a mistake as we wont know till we die, so I too could be wrong but I think I have part if not half right. Know one is a hundred percent correct just because of the complexities along would be too much for one human mind to comprehend.

I think it's a mistake to think that we can't know who we are (until we die).  Moreover, do we really know more when we are died ? (How could we verify anyway...)

Here, I'll try again to plug my topic [] (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12265) There's a lot to learn about physic, dream, astral and others "phenomena".  But it should lead us to a more accurate comprehension of ourself.  That's my point ("Councillor Hamann: No, no point. Old men like me don't bother with making points. There's no point." -MatrixReloaded) []

-Weeta

[Sctt859]

Ok i just had a oobe and to tell you the truth it felt more like a realm of sleep because when  i woke up i was refreshed and ready to start my day same as dreaming. Sorry guys but one day you will find the truth. Before we can go to the spirit realm at all in a sleep in a oobe what ever we must fully know the properties of the physical realm.

[Sctt859]

and your cult leader robert is a fruit.

[jilola]

Ok, here's a bone for you guys to chew on.

Waking life, day dreaming, regular dreaming, lucid, dreaming, obe, near death experience and whatever else there is is all the same  thing only from a different perceptual awareness point of view.
They are not discrete things but the very same existence seen form a different perspective that carries with it varying limitations of what is and is not possible.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Sctt859]

Ty jilola, all a oobe is and all the others you said are just advance ways to get rest and sleep.

[jilola]

quote:y jilola, all a oobe is and all the others you said are just advance ways to get rest and sleep.

No I didn't, really. I said they are the same existence viewed from various perspectives and with varying level of awareness.
In other words waking life, dream life and OBE are one and the same reality only the level to which we are attuned and thus capable of affecting and perceiving things varies.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Lighthouse]

Sctt,

Jouni is talking about the same thing we were talking about in your thread about dying and the brain.  It's all the same thing... Just different interpretations of the same illusion.

Kerri

[weetabix]

quote:Originally posted by Sctt859

To jilola, all a oobe is and all the others you said are just advance ways to get rest and sleep.

Interesting... Do you believe you're awake !?  What make you sure you're not sleeping right now ?  Maybe just a brain in a vat !  Does physical world is less an illusion than a dream ?  What is Truth !?  Could it be objective ?

I'm not sure of your honesty.. Are you just making noise !?

Anyway..  Thanks (sincerely) for the waste of time !

-Weeta

[Nay]

quote:Originally posted by Sctt859

and your cult leader robert is a fruit.

I'm pretty sure Robert and Adrian are not going to appreciate you saying this, I know I don't. [!]

Been nice knowing you Scott.

Nay

[Logic]

Is he banned yet?

[Sctt859]

astral society is better any way they dont cry like u guys do.

[Logic]

quote:Originally posted by Sctt859

astral society is better any way they dont cry like u guys do.

Thats because everyone there is exactly like you.