Conscious phasing btwn lucid dream & "reality"

[elasticca]

Tisha,
I've had similar experiences, as I'm sure many others in the forum have. Unfortunately, I don't think there's any real way to define what the experience was for certain. The same holds true for many experiences I've had as well. It could have been a false awakening, or perhaps you awoke momentarily in your astral body. In either case, it sounds like progress to me!

Best,
Michael

[Frank]

I think I just answered your original post on this.

Yours,
Frank

[kifyre]

I think I know what you mean. Sort of waking up in bed, already awake?

Same thing happens to me, I think, but it never leaves such an impact on me so maybe I'm experiencing something different. First I become lucid, wake up in the dream. Then I try to maintain the experience so I can explore, but everything melts away to blackness and I'm left just in bed...then I open my eyes.

The waking up seems to happen before waking up.

Thanks for making me give this situation a double-take. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

Mark

[Kodemaster]

Allright, something similar happened to me this morning, so I *have* to post.

I became aware during a dream by focusing on something/focusing on my awareness/keeping a still image in my mind. I then became OB in my room and began to explore. I went out into the living room and thought "Oh I'm doing this again".  I saw my Mom getting ready for work in the bathroom, and my dad watching football highlights on the TV. I think Mom said "what are you doing?" as I passed by her, to which I thought she meant me, but quickly realised she was talking to Dad. I went around trying to find something to look at to prove to myself what happened. I looked at the TV, but figured "football on TV" was too vague to bring back. I then found a clock in the living room with a red readout and memorised the shape of the numbers.

Somewhere around this point it shifted into a lucid dream because some things I saw did not exsist in real life. I flew out the window and flew around outside, and into the back yard. I flew up on top of a large, elevated plaftorm that did not exist in real life, a statue (I think) that also does not exist in real life, and on top of the house. Control over my flying became increasingly difficult at this point, and I believe it eventually turned into a dream.

I "woke up" and realised it was comepletely dark, unlike in my experience. Here's where my shadow memory comes into place. I look at the clock in my room and realise the time is different than what I saw in my experience. I think to myself "darn, that was just a lucid dream". Some other things happen that I don't remember. I go "back to sleep". Unfortunately, I don't remember if this part was all just a dream!

When I woke up "for real" (several hours later), I realised that the clock I saw in my experience in the living room also did not exist. What's incredibly frustrating is that I could not compare the lighting in my experience to the lighting immediately after I woke up because I don't know if I actually did wake up!

I'm still waking up now, so maybe I'll think of some other things. Also, I turned on the TV, but it was not tuned into a sports station. However, Dad could have simply flipped it after he was done.

I wonder if these experiences are all facets of one another?

Jeni

[Frank]

Jeni: please understand that what you are experiencing is very normal. People can (and do!) experience severe reality fluctuations at first. But the more you experience these kinds of effects, the more you can sort one type of experience from another.

Yours,
Frank

[username31]

Kodemaster:  I too had a very similar experience and in conclusion I feel my experience were simply lucid dreams and not a true OBE...although some here may define this experience as an OBE:

During the night I became aware that I was dreaming.  I then had the intent to travel to the pharmacy parking lot near my home.  All went black as I remained conscious.  The parking lot then appeared with the pharmacy next to it...but then I realized it was "a parking lot" since the lot was filled with cars and the dimensions of the lot was not the same as the real one.  As I turned to look around the cars changed again! For me, this is a clear sign of a lucid dream.  Also, during my dreams, my perspective will be from above.  At time, with enough energy, I can shift my perspective to the person below that I percieve as myself....Moments later I was on a motorcycle riding on a road I imagined.  
The last post mentioned reality fluctuations.  These are inseparable from real OBE's that happen due to time shifts, historical energy frameworks, and by that I mean, enough people believe in an object that it appears to exist within the astral matrix, or because our mind cannot differentiate between reflections of reality, our imagination, and reality itself.  I'm curious if others feel this way too.

[Patty]

Hi Tisha.

I've only recently put any effort into consciously re-entering after an obe.  So frequently, now, I will consciously re-enter, and then wake up. Two steps.

My earlier experiences - if they had decent lucidity and control - would frequently end in a snap back to C1. I'm in the OBE (seemingly RTZ) and then instantaneously  I'm awake in the bed. I don't remember waking up, because "I" was OB.

Was your experience a "snapback" sort of thing? I think Bob Peterson has written about this....

Patty

[Kodemaster]

quote:Originally posted by username31:
Kodemaster:  I too had a very similar experience and in conclusion I feel my experience were simply lucid dreams and not a true OBE...although some here may define this experience as an OBE:

During the night I became aware that I was dreaming.  I then had the intent to travel to the pharmacy parking lot near my home.  All went black as I remained conscious.  The parking lot then appeared with the pharmacy next to it...but then I realized it was "a parking lot" since the lot was filled with cars and the dimensions of the lot was not the same as the real one.  As I turned to look around the cars changed again! For me, this is a clear sign of a lucid dream.  Also, during my dreams, my perspective will be from above.  At time, with enough energy, I can shift my perspective to the person below that I percieve as myself....Moments later I was on a motorcycle riding on a road I imagined.  
The last post mentioned reality fluctuations.  These are inseparable from real OBE's that happen due to time shifts, historical energy frameworks, and by that I mean, enough people believe in an object that it appears to exist within the astral matrix, or because our mind cannot differentiate between reflections of reality, our imagination, and reality itself.  I'm curious if others feel this way too.

31,

Did the pharmacy look close to the real one at first? I believe my experience started off as an OBE that turned into a lucid dream; perhaps yours did too. Or perhaps it was akin to several experiences I've had where I felt myself project into a zone that looks nothing like the room I'm in.

I seem to remember having this discussion awhile back. If I find the thread(s), I'll post the link(s) here (unfortunately, the search feature is broken). We basically came to the conclusion that these experiences are very common at first and that they're a good benchmark for full-blown OBE's. We also discussed that they are similar to OBE's: We feel the OBE and exit sensations, believe it's an OBE and only question the experience when we wake up, as we realise that things look different than they do in "real life". I (and others) believe that these are a form of an OBE. They can almost be considered a "half-projection" formed by the unconscious taking over the astral vision.  Reasons could be the lack of energy and/or experience.

Some people believe that lucid dreams are a form of OBE, if I'm wording this correctly. If that is true, then we could say that these hybrid OBEs/lucid dreams are a third OB state, perhaps a phenomenon in its own right. Robert Bruce also mentions the "Virtual Reality Projection", which is basically an astral projection made by creating a scenario ahead of time. One way to do it is to stare into a poster on a wall and turn it into a projection. Unfortunately, we never concluded where this is the same pheonomenon or not, as nobody on here has enough experience with the Virtual Reality Projection.

People say there are clear differences between LD's and projections, other than the obvious difference in scenery. I believe someone said the sensations felt in a LD are different than in an AP. I am not the expert on LD's, so I cannot point out the other differences (help please?) But what I am saying is that if there are enough differences between LDs and this experience for this experience to clearly not be a LD, then perhaps this is more of a projection-oriented phenomenon. Am I making sense?

Perhaps there is a buffer zone between the Real Time Zone and the area where lucid dreams take place where these hybrid experiences take place. It would be useful to learn more about, and to gain control over, as it could come in handy. Perhaps people could meet up here without having to go all the way to the astral/deal with astral entities. We could think of things and see them before our eyes (I've done this)...contemplate, develop our ki skills, use it as a training zone similar to the one in the astral, etc.

The possiblities are endless...

Jen

[Patty]

Hi Jeni,

In my experience, some experiences are clearly OBE's, some are clearly LD's, and some are clearly in-between. I personally therefore think of these related states of consciousness as lying on a spectrum or continuum.

I have read here and there on the web - people who seem to have clearly one (OBE) or the other (LD) and they say with much certainty that the two states are quite distinct, and never the twain shall meet.  

It may well be so, for them. But in my experience the two are related and some experiences fit in-between.

When you then add the distinction of RTZ OBE's vs astral OBE's, again some people begin to say that an OBE experience is either one, or the other.  But I don't believe that a person could distinguish a RTZ projection with reality fluctuations from an astral OBE in a similar-to-reality locale. And some LD's may pull in factors frmo an astral plane that a person has experience with, confusing these states even more.  Finally, I don't personally think  that an experience was NOT a 'real' OBE simply because there were reality fluctuations, although I appreciate the wish to be able to define an experience as it comes along.  

Anyway, good luck on your journeys -

Patty

[Tisha]

Hi!  Happy New Year!

I think what compelled me to post this experience (twice) was just how DIFFERENT it felt.  I've come back from lucid dreams and OBEs before . . .  and as you all seem to have experienced before, they can be odd, even disorienting sometimes.

What was different with the experience I described was the fact that I DIDN"T WAKE UP.  There was no "blackout" before waking, and there were minimal (if any) re-entry sensations.  

The phase into normal reality happened in a blink of an eye - - - WAIT not even a blink of an eye because I didn't even blink!!!!!!!   I didn't even open my eyes . . . because when I phased into so-called normal reality my eyes were already open.  Hence the movie-screen affect.

Frank answered my previous post and he thinks it was a "controlled re-entry."  I can accept that description - - - it kind of makes sense, although it makes me seem more of an adept than I actually am.  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_blush.gif" border=0>  If it was controlled, someone else was at the helm . . .

It makes me think of what an "enlightened" individual must feel like . . . since apparently they take their awareness with them everywhere they go . . . for them there is never a blackout, just a phasing from one reality into the next . . . . whew, that must be exhausting, never to black out . . . .


Tisha

"As Above, So Below"

[Kodemaster]

Happy New Year to you too!

I thought of another thing: Perhaps you slept with your eyes open, or they opened during sleep. It's rare, but I've read on occasion that some projectors have meditated and projected with their eyes open.

Either that, or maybe you saw through your third eye for awhile that morning, and then opened your eyes without realising it.

I wish I could help you beyond that. It sounds really interesting!

Good luck,

Jeni

[Kodemaster]

Good point, Patty. I think you hit the nail on the head.

Jeni

[Glacius]

You awoke in a state know as sleep paralysis, when the mind becomes aware of objective reality before the body wakes up. This is a state that is very close to dreaming, and from this state it is quite easy to re enter the dream, create a new one or astral project/atempt OOBE.

 If you find yourself in this state when you wake up, try not to be alarmed, and dont move a muscle. From this state, awarness of the physical body is non-existant. You can enter a dream, astral project or just wake up. It is quite easy to fade back into a lucid dream from this state. Practice consentrating on part of your dream/astral body, like your hands to increase lucidity, or prevent returning to objective realtiy sooner than desired, if you find yourself in a lucid dream. If you stay calm during paralysis and maintain it, you can easily phase back into the dream world.

I love Pink Floyd!!

[Tisha]

Hello Glacius, and welcome to the Forum!  We all look forward to your paricipation, it sounds like you have some experience

Nooooo, it wasn't sleep paralysis at all . . . I know sleep paralysis well . . . part of the reason I posted my question was that my experience did NOT have any - - - well almost any - - - OBE sensations.  No projection sensations, no sleep paralysis, no reentry sensations, no nothing, except a staticky sense (electric-like).  

It seems like what I was doing was "phasing."  My first phasing experience, wow! I posted my question in two places - - - the Astral Consciousness section and this OBE Experiences section.  From what it seems, the Astral Consciousness section was the right place to post (there is an email string on "phasing" that's REAL interesting, check it out!)



Tisha

"As Above, So Below"

[username31]

The key to phasing is intent from my past night's experience; however, whether I phased to a lucid dream or an obe is for others to define.  What happened:  I became aware I was dreaming.  I ended the dream by focusing on traveling to the neighborhood pharmacy's parking lot (it's close enough I can see it from my home to veryify what is there).  All became black.  Then, as I held this intent, I felt my astral energy form slide down through my body.  As this took place, I felt a sudden kundalini surge that lasted less than 2 seconds.  It seemed as though a gentle and vibrating current from my tail bone surged quickly up my spine in a narrow path.  This was unique since I never felt this before, I had only read about it, and for me, contributed to the validity of the experience due to uniqueness and tangible qualities of the sensation.
I then found myself in the parking lot,  poorly illuminated, and empty (as it was in reality..or as I imagined).  I then sensed that I was outside my bedroom and sleeping at the same time.  I attempted to see myself and I noticed a solid form under the covers only.  I phased back to a lucid dream and then to dreams and then I woke up a couple hours later in the morning.

The next time I phase from a dream state to a place in reality I will also hold my intent to phase into present time...then past time...to see if this focus effects the dreamscape.

[Tisha]

Hi - I posted this somewhere else but didn't get any feedback on my question - - - I dont' know if this following episode was a fluke, or that it just hasn't happened to anyone else (yet?) - - - or if I wrote my post in such a way that it came across as a simple lucid dream!  So I'll give it another shot, in an abbreviated form:

1. Me, dreaming.  
2. Make conscious decision to "leave" dream.  Not to anywhere in particular.
3. End up in different place, fully lucid.  
4. I look around, and think, "hm, here I am."
5. Scene melts away (like a special effect in a movie) and I'm all of a sudden in bed, awake . . . in what feels very much like ordinary reality.  Floaty sensation and static - like sounds accompany the dream-scene meltdown.
6.  Go through day wondering what happened.

See . . . what makes this event remarkable is that I never actually "woke up."  Or, I woke up, only it was before my body woke up?  Like, my mind woke up before my body did.  Augh, I don't know if I'm describing this right.

It was so remarkable that I went through the day pinching myself and trying to fly, just to make sure I wasn't still in my lucid dream.

Has this happened to anyone else?


Tisha

"As Above, So Below"