Lethal Dreams

[Xanth]

It's one thing for you to talk about the "glory of god" or whatever.

And it's still cool to offer prayer and support.

But when you start getting into sinners and all that jazz you're starting to preach a bit.

It's a fine line.

And in a forum where many people have views and experiences that directly oppose dogmatic belief, that kind of stuff can be really annoying and seems truly silly.

Just quoting for truth.

~Ryan

[personalreality]

You people experience that stuff because you believe you will, bottom line.

and who the hell are you to assume that your sense of morality is the "right" one?

there are no good and evil beings.  everything feeds.  if something happens to feed on you which indirectly or directly influences your energy in such a was as to elicit abnormal behaviors, how is that any worse than us eating a slaughtered cow?

all i'm saying is that just because something negatively impacts a human doesn't mean it's evil.  it's part of life.

i just don't see how blaming your problems on boogey men is going to help you.

oh wait.  you don't need help because you are literally helpless.  just have faith and let me know how that works out.

note: not attacking you, just putting what you said in a different frame of reference.

[Panchajanya]

personalreality I have read your post and a few points really stick out. I have no doubt that your faith may be stronger, I think better is the wrong word, but let me ask you this; If someone came into your house and murdered your wife, would you think, O this the plan of my higher power, or would you take action against the perpetrator? You may not believe in the forces of good and evil, even though every major religion teaches otherwise, but I do because I have direct perception of such beings. In one sense, even if what I say is true it's not going to bring back my son. But I can't help to wonder WHY?
Evil is nothing more than ignorance, if perpetrators of evil had knowledge of the consequences of their actions they would cease to commit such acts. Evil acts only cause suffering in the person to whom the act is committed and to the person that commits such an act. Unlike you I believe there is a judgment after one dies, and that is the absolute morality.   

[Xanth]

personalreality I have read your post and a few points really stick out. I have no doubt that your faith may be stronger, I think better is the wrong word, but let me ask you this; If someone came into your house and murdered your wife, would you think, O this the plan of my higher power, or would you take action against the perpetrator? You may not believe in the forces of good and evil, even though every major religion teaches otherwise, but I do because I have direct perception of such beings. In one sense, even if what I say is true it's not going to bring back my son. But I can't help to wonder WHY?

There's not a single person among us who can answer that question.
Nobody can until faced with it.
We all know how we would LIKE to act... we would like to think we're capable of forgiveness.

At the end of the day... all we have is remembering those we love/loved... and going on with our existance.

Evil is nothing more than ignorance, if perpetrators of evil had knowledge of the consequences of their actions they would cease to commit such acts. Evil acts only cause suffering in the person to whom the act is committed and to the person that commits such an act. Unlike you I believe there is a judgment after one dies, and that is the absolute morality.

You're assuming here that they don't enjoy the acts which they commit... regardless of the consequences.
Lots of people commit murder knowing full well, that if they're caught, they're either going to jail for a long time... or have their life ended.
I, too, believe that there most definitely is judgement after one leaves this physical world.  This judgment comes in the most harshest of forms too:  Self judgment.
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, can judge you harder than your ever could.

I take that knowledge to heart...

~Ryan

[personalreality]

You may not believe in the forces of good and evil, even though every major religion teaches otherwise

Unlike you I believe there is a judgment after one dies, and that is the absolute morality.   

Did you ever stop to think WHY every major religion teaches that?

What is absolute morality?  Who decided what absolute morality is?

God?

Did she/he/it tell you that?  Or did you just read it in their autobiography?

I'm not sure if you read my story earlier.

I recognized the opportunity, not as divine will, but as the intricate interplay of awareness and energy aligning in such a way, arranged by all of existence, that provided me with a reason to get sober. 

There is a massive difference in perceptual scale and position between you and I.  You misunderstand me in many ways I think.

[geass]

It's one thing for you to talk about the "glory of god" or whatever.

And it's still cool to offer prayer and support.

But when you start getting into sinners and all that jazz you're starting to preach a bit.

It's a fine line.

And in a forum where many people have views and experiences that directly oppose dogmatic belief, that kind of stuff can be really annoying and seems truly silly.

Hello my friend,

You seem to not want to understand a point. I am not preaching at all, I don't want to lead anyone into my beliefs especially someone like you who thinks I have "dogmatic beliefs". You tell me that I annoy you, of course everything that has a sense of absolute morality annoys people like you who want to take everything relative. Hell, even bestiality and child molestation could be right for you. That is the danger of your relative morality. I wonder if you have a young child one day and you went in their room and found them doing some crazy sexual stuff with a dog or whatever, what would you do? Imagine you tell them, "you shouldn't do that because it's wrong? ", what if they tell you "why is it wrong, just because it's wrong to you???". This stuff has no limit.

You want to make me sound like someone with dogmatic beliefs trying to impose my views on this forum while you are the one imposing your beliefs. I don't care if what I am saying sounds silly to the majority of people here who play with this "go explore your conscienceness" stuff as if it's a game!!! You are assuming more than me that it's their conscience while I AM AT LEAST ACKNOWLEDGING AN UNKNWON DANGEROUS REALM as evidenced by the same person who started this. The thread is started by panchajanya who is a witness to his son's suicidal circumstances. I replied to him and to him alone about what I think .. My point is that it's very possible that he encountered something from the spiritual world. I believe that the spiritual world exists with EVIL VS GOOD. What's it to you? Does it bother you so much to think there is absolute morality? I wonder why...

Anyway, as I said before I am only interested to get the point to panchajanya and others who are more open than you and your relative subjective explore your conscience stuff. Trust me that sounds the most silly especially when you hear about suicides. That is without mentionning the other dreams I read like Bonzo's "a strange waking dream" where he wakes up, looks towards the door and sees a mischievous slightly evil imp like character laughing, or cassiel kiani's "protector of darkness" dream where he sees red old women called the "hunters of the blood" calling him "protector of darkness".

Tell me who is more rational. Me who is saying there is an unknown territory we are crossing, or you with your "go explore your conscience" stuff?

I have many more things I have seen in my dreams where God told me things to come and they exactly happened in SPECIFIC MINUTE DETAILS.. I don't want to talk about these but I want to tell all who are here, be carefull, this is not a freaking game..

God bless!

[geass]

Evil is nothing more than ignorance, if perpetrators of evil had knowledge of the consequences of their actions they would cease to commit such acts. Evil acts only cause suffering in the person to whom the act is committed and to the person that commits such an act. Unlike you I believe there is a judgment after one dies, and that is the absolute morality.   

My friend, don't let them get you to doubt what happened. I disagree on one point with you though, Evil is very different from ignorance, people who do real evil, killing, murdering, molesting children and other stuff like that do it because they they like evil, they are compelled to do it. Now personalreality wants to make it seem as if I am saying the demons are the ones doing this stuff and the people are innocent because they blame these acts on these demonic spirits. NOT AT ALL, the people who do this stuff have a choice in this, and they choose to be enslaved by these behaviors. Their will becomes the will of these demons and they become absolutely addicted to this. They give in to these demons.

Now I am not saying this is what happened to your son. Some people absolutely freak out when they know about this stuff, they prefer to live blindly with evil spirits roaming around them instead of being aware of it and battle with them through GOOD AND GOD.

You are right, there is good and evil and the day of judgement will be whether people believe or not will not change anything.

God bless you my friend! Hope the wife and son are doing good.. I know it's not easy I lost my father when young too!!

[personalreality]

I feel that you are unnecessarily adding fear to something that has the potential to provide self-knowledge to many people.

I hope that I don't sound rational or reasonable. 

Being addicted to rationale is the wall preventing most people in this world from accepting ultimate faith in themselves and their reality.

All I really want to express is to consider the reality of the situation before you tell people that what they experienced couldn't have possibly been something from their own awareness.

I'm really not trying to pick a fight with either of you about your religion.  I just don't want to have to help convince someone to try astral projection next month because they read your post and are unnecessarily scared.

THERE IS NO DANGER IN ASTRAL PROJECTION AND THE EXPLORATION OF CONSCIOUSNESS. 

[Xanth]

The thrust of my search is to find meaning to the recent suicide of my son. His wife said that he had a dream during the night that was very disturbing. In fact he was in a pitiful state and crying when she left to take their son to school, when she returned she found him in the kids room, he had hung himself. I had just talked to him the night before and he was in great spirits as we talked about an upcoming vacation we had planned for June. Among his belongings was an astral projection book by Robert Bruce. His wife said that he was interested in the subject and had tried doing some of the exercises. The grief I feel has not subsided and I know that perhaps this is just a futile attempt to find some reason for a seemingly heathy and happy father, husand, son to snap so mysteriously.

Ok, let's take this back a few steps/posts...

In my opinion, Pancha, the "disturbing dreams" were most likely caused by his unstable state of mind... not the other way around.

We know that people who are depressed or in a very unstable state are exactly that... "unstable".
Sure, they can seem fine one second... but until they get to the root of the problem, they're will always be that "snap point".

I've always advised that people of an unstable nature *SHOULD NOT* be practicing anything of a metaphysical natures.  To be quite blunt, they can't handle it.

The chance is there that you'll never know exactly what caused your son to take the action he did.  This is just something you'll have to learn to accept... and that acceptance can take a while if you're not ready for it.

I'm sorry for your loss.  :/

~Ryan

[geass]

THERE IS NO DANGER IN ASTRAL PROJECTION AND THE EXPLORATION OF CONSCIOUSNESS. 

FALSE!!!!! There is a big danger in it, call it whatever you want "astral projection", "exploring of consciousness" or whatever!! It is an UNKNOWN TERRITORY and could be very VERY DANGEROUS IF YOU ARE NOT EQUIPPED with the truth about God and the opposite side!

The majority of the dreams people are writing here are not even conscience exploring. They are all having dreams about darkness. You hear one talking about a black goat with an unattached head at the bathroom of a dead child taking a shower, another about seeing an imp like character AFTER waking up, another is speaking about being followed by a monster who has a tube that drains their blood, another about being called the "protector of darkness". Go read the dreams for yourself and stop encouraging people to fool around with this stuff. You don't know what you are talking about. Have some humility and fear.

People have been warned!

God protect us!

[kurtykurt42]

I agree with geass. There have been several powerful malevolent entities that have followed me back while traveling out of body. Thankfully I have spent considerable time training and learning how to defend myself but the point is, others have not and are therefore susceptible targets.

Therefore, you can either be scared or you can spend a few weeks learning a few practical techniques to defend yourself and others from malevolent entities that you will most likely run into at least once in your lifetime.

[Xanth]

FALSE!!!!! There is a big danger in it, call it whatever you want "astral projection", "exploring of consciousness" or whatever!! It is an UNKNOWN TERRITORY and could be very VERY DANGEROUS IF YOU ARE NOT EQUIPPED with the truth about God and the opposite side!

Dude, seriously... no.  Please stop fearmongering.
There's only danger if you *think* there is danger.
If you expect to see demons and devils and all sorts of other "evils" while dreaming or projecting... well, guess what?  You will!

I've been projecting for a very long time through my Lucid Dreams... and I've never experienced anything evil.  I haven't even had a nightmare in the past 15 years that I can recall.

Nothing is going to happen to you just by projecting.  You are 100% safe.

The majority of the dreams people are writing here are not even conscience exploring. They are all having dreams about darkness. You hear one talking about a black goat with an unattached head at the bathroom of a dead child taking a shower, another about seeing an imp like character AFTER waking up, another is speaking about being followed by a monster who has a tube that drains their blood, another about being called the "protector of darkness". Go read the dreams for yourself and stop encouraging people to fool around with this stuff. You don't know what you are talking about. Have some humility and fear.

In my opinion, all of those occurrences have one thing in common... they're dreams or projections within their own subconscious.
Everything they're experiencing is being created from within themselves BY themselves.  No outside interference.

God protect us!

Only you can protect yourself... and you do so by NOT assuming everything around you that you don't understand is a demon.


Pancha,
Did you get a chance to read my post?

~Ryan

[geass]

Dude, seriously... no.  Please stop fearmongering.
There's only danger if you *think* there is danger.
If you expect to see demons and devils and all sorts of other "evils" while dreaming or projecting... well, guess what?  You will!

I've been projecting for a very long time through my Lucid Dreams... and I've never experienced anything evil.  I haven't even had a nightmare in the past 15 years that I can recall.

Nothing is going to happen to you just by projecting.  You are 100% safe.
In my opinion, all of those occurrences have one thing in common... they're dreams or projections within their own subconscious.
Everything they're experiencing is being created from within themselves BY themselves.  No outside interference.
Only you can protect yourself... and you do so by NOT assuming everything around you that you don't understand is a demon.


Pancha,
Did you get a chance to read my post?

~Ryan

My friend,

My comments are not for you but for others. Project the way you want. You are not having problems because you are far away from the truth. Evil spirits will be on the case of people who still have some relationship with God, not ones who are far away from Him and think that everything comes from the mind. This is exactly what evil entities want you to think so they will leave you. When you are close to God, the devil will be on your case.

When you are close to God, you know these things. As I have said I have had dreams that warned me from the future and they all had very VERY SMART meaning that I could not create in my own mind. This is not my mind, this is FROM ABOVE.

You have to at least acknowledge that it's an unknown territory. You have a suicide in this thread, this is very serious.

God bless!

[Xanth]

My friend,

My comments are not for you but for others. Project the way you want.

If you wish to address someone in particular, in private, away from prying eyes... we have a PM system for that.
Otherwise anything you post is open to the entire membership of the forum to read and respond to. 

You are not having problems because you are far away from the truth. Evil spirits will be on the case of people who still have some relationship with God, not ones who are far away from Him and think that everything comes from the mind. This is exactly what evil entities want you to think so they will leave you. When you are close to God, the devil will be on your case.

Well then, I hope you won't be offended when I say this, but you can keep your god and your self created demons.
I definitely have zero use for them in my projections.

I'm just saying please stop the fear mongering.
You're not helping.

~Ryan

[Stookie]

The biggest demons are your own, and when you get into this stuff you will eventually have to confront them. And how you deal with them is your own responsibility. You come out stronger on the other side if you do it correctly, as well as get rid of the demons. If you let fear take over and just pray for someone else to handle it for you, you'll be facing the same challenges over and over, probably in a worse manner.

If someone has an issue with patience and prays for patience, they are likely to have even more issues in their life that need patience. Because that's how you get it, you practice it. God does not go "POOF - you magically have more patience". Same with fear and overcoming it. Strength comes from the inside, it's not magic.

Astral projection may not be for everyone, but to say it's wrong for everyone is being ignorant of what others get out of it. It's not for anyone to judge other than God himself.

I've had plenty of scary moments myself. Physical life is also full of scary moments. And a spiritual life also has it's moments of fear, doubt, temptations, and scary moments. They make your spiritual life stronger. If you didn't have challenges you wouldn't grow.

Last but not least, these are just dreams. Many people don't remember dreams at all, but if they did, they would be full of their subconscious demons as well. The more you ignore them, the more they'll jump at you when your guard is down.

[personalreality]

The majority of the dreams people are writing here are not even conscience exploring. They are all having dreams about darkness. You hear one talking about a black goat with an unattached head at the bathroom of a dead child taking a shower, another about seeing an imp like character AFTER waking up, another is speaking about being followed by a monster who has a tube that drains their blood, another about being called the "protector of darkness". Go read the dreams for yourself and stop encouraging people to fool around with this stuff. You don't know what you are talking about. Have some humility and fear.

People have been warned!

God protect us!

People!! LIsten UP!  Please FOOL AROUND WITH THIS STUFF!!

PM me if you want to learn about BLACK MAGICK AND WITCHCRAFT.  TOGETHER WE CAN SUMMON THE SPAWN OF SATAN TO RAIN FIRE DOWN ON THIS WORLD!!! 

THE DARKNESS WILL PREVAIL!!

MWAHAHAHAHA!


that's what you sound like geass.

[Naykid]

The biggest demons are your own, and when you get into this stuff you will eventually have to confront them. And how you deal with them is your own responsibility. You come out stronger on the other side if you do it correctly, as well as get rid of the demons. If you let fear take over and just pray for someone else to handle it for you, you'll be facing the same challenges over and over, probably in a worse manner.

If someone has an issue with patience and prays for patience, they are likely to have even more issues in their life that need patience. Because that's how you get it, you practice it. God does not go "POOF - you magically have more patience". Same with fear and overcoming it. Strength comes from the inside, it's not magic.

Astral projection may not be for everyone, but to say it's wrong for everyone is being ignorant of what others get out of it. It's not for anyone to judge other than God himself.

I've had plenty of scary moments myself. Physical life is also full of scary moments. And a spiritual life also has it's moments of fear, doubt, temptations, and scary moments. They make your spiritual life stronger. If you didn't have challenges you wouldn't grow.

Last but not least, these are just dreams. Many people don't remember dreams at all, but if they did, they would be full of their subconscious demons as well. The more you ignore them, the more they'll jump at you when your guard is down.

Well said, Stookie! 

[personalreality]

out

[personalreality]

stookie seems to be very patient and considers his response before running off at the mouth like me.

it is always well said, i agree.

[Naykid]

out

Outside?... outstanding?.... outrageous?...outlandish?....outnumbered?

[Xanth]

stookie seems to be very patient and considers his response before running off at the mouth like me.

it is always well said, i agree.

There is an edit button for a reason. 
I use it a lot.

~Ryan

[personalreality]

but it's more fun this way

[AstralBeginnings]

Dont you think its funny how people who believe in negative spirits and good vs evil and monsters and demons...are the only ones to experience them OOB? Those who don't beleive dont seem to have any problems... hmmmmm

[Xanth]

Dont you think its funny how people who believe in negative spirits and good vs evil and monsters and demons...are the only ones to experience them OOB? Those who don't beleive dont seem to have any problems... hmmmmm

Very curious, indeed. 

~Ryan

[personalreality]

i'm curious

www.explosm.net/comics/2043