Are dreamscapes the same as astral planes?

[Spinney Lainey]

I've recently started experiencing AP spontaneously, through lucid dreaming. I'm wondering how different this experience is to conscious astral projecting. How do the landscapes differ (if at all)? Do the astral planes seem more real when one consciously projects from meditation, rather than sleep? When one astral projects from a lucid dream, are the places we visit merely dreamscapes, or are they a form of astral plane? Or is our location in the astral planes but our consciousness in a dream?

What are the best methods to use to help myself AP through lucid dreaming at will, rather than spontaneously?

Any input gratefully received!

[Bedeekin]

These sorts of multiple questions are better answered by your own experience of them. If someone says yes... you may look for evidence of that and find it.... if someone says no... you may look for evidence of that and find it... if someone says that lucid dreams are made of chocolate sticks and AP is constructed differently.... you may look for evidence of that and find it.

I don't know if YOUR 'dreamscapes' will be different from how YOU would perceive them through a conscious projection. That would be impossible for anyone to say.

Again... you may receive mixed answers.

[Spinney Lainey]

These sorts of multiple questions are better answered by your own experience of them. If someone says yes... you may look for evidence of that and find it.... if someone says no... you may look for evidence of that and find it... if someone says that lucid dreams are made of chocolate sticks and AP is constructed differently.... you may look for evidence of that and find it.

I don't know if YOUR 'dreamscapes' will be different from how YOU would perceive them through a conscious projection. That would be impossible for anyone to say.

Again... you may receive mixed answers.

True. I was just interested in what other peoples' experiences were, as I have only experienced this form of AP.

[Xanth]

True. I was just interested in what other peoples' experiences were, as I have only experienced this form of AP.

Bedeekin is 100% correct.  Reading other people's experiences are going to skew your own.
The only defense to this is trying to be as open minded as you can about what YOU experience and QUESTION EVERYTHING, BELIEVE NOTHING unless it comes directly from your own experience.

I shall try to answer your initial question... but as was pointed out, it's not THE truth, it's only *MY* truth.  There is a massive difference between those two concepts. 

For me, anytime you experience a reality which you identify as not being this physical reality (even if it's after the fact, aka: after you wake up), it's a projection.

In my eBook (which you can download here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39504726/Phasing_Primer.pdf), starting on, I believe, page 10, I write about the "States of Conscious Awareness & The Consciousness Continuum".  Read that, it will give you a much clearer idea of my personal truth on the subject.  But yes, suffice to say, dreamscapes are the many alternative reality frames besides this physical one which we experience on a nightly basis. 

[andrew banjo]

From my experience they are not and in dreams i employ my dream body whilst on the astral plane i use my astral body and they are not the same and neither is the astral plane same as dream scapes which is created by the subconscious mind using the astral substance thats why some confuse dreaming with astral projection

[Lionheart]

From my experience they are not and in dreams i employ my dream body whilst on the astral plane i use my astral body and they are not the same and neither is the astral plane same as dream scapes which is created by the subconscious mind using the astral substance thats why some confuse dreaming with astral projection

Is this a recording, lol? You posted that exact same opinion on another thread here tonight.

Like you said this is your opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. But I have problem understanding the subconscious mind uses Astral substance to create Dreamscapes. What is the Conscious mind doing during all of this? Why wouldn't the subconscous mind create Physical substance in the Dreamscapes, instead of Astral?

[Bedeekin]

Personally... I have been to many dream environments consciously.

One is 'dream Middlesbrough' (DM)... a dream version of my home town. It has a specific geography that when I am dreaming seems to be Middlesbrough... but I always get lost somewhere because certain aspects aren't expected. I have repeat dreamed about DM.

I have also been there a few times when consciously exploring the nonphysical.

The really cool thing is that after going there consciously I realised that maybe that is what everyones version of DM is like. It has such specific areas that are always there upon repeat visits that it was my first inkling that maybe the dream environment is the nonphysical or 'Astral' whatever you want to call it.

I have asked a few friends and family who are from Middlesbrough if they dream about it or have dreams that are set in it. The ones who have good dream recall have described the layout almost exactly to my layout.

The best one was Kath's niece. She found out I did OOBEs and was listening to me talking about them.. I was talking about the evident fact that we play our dreams out in the nonphysical reality... and said to her "You know when you dream about Middlesbrough?" I was guessing she did.... she said "Yeah"... I said "You know that in actual reality, behind the town centre is the massive new shopping complex?" she replied "Yeah?".... I said "In your dream version it's really nasty and downtrodden like gypsies live there or really Oliver Twist-like isn't it?"

She freaked out... in a good way. 

In fact.. me Kath and Her both share the same DM and can chat about it as though we are talking about the same place. It's quite amusing.

Kath's niece is far too young to remember when it wasn't a big shopping complex and it was a slightly derelict, rundown area. Which then begs the question... over time.. will this area slowly conform to everyones new memories of it being a shopping complex?

[Spinney Lainey]

Personally... I have been to many dream environments consciously.

One is 'dream Middlesbrough' (DM)... a dream version of my home town. It has a specific geography that when I am dreaming seems to be Middlesbrough... but I always get lost somewhere because certain aspects aren't expected. I have repeat dreamed about DM.

I have also been there a few times when consciously exploring the nonphysical.

The really cool thing is that after going there consciously I realised that maybe that is what everyones version of DM is like. It has such specific areas that are always there upon repeat visits that it was my first inkling that maybe the dream environment is the nonphysical or 'Astral' whatever you want to call it.

I have asked a few friends and family who are from Middlesbrough if they dream about it or have dreams that are set in it. The ones who have good dream recall have described the layout almost exactly to my layout.

The best one was Kath's niece. She found out I did OOBEs and was listening to me talking about them.. I was talking about the evident fact that we play our dreams out in the nonphysical reality... and said to her "You know when you dream about Middlesbrough?" I was guessing she did.... she said "Yeah"... I said "You know that in actual reality, behind the town centre is the massive new shopping complex?" she replied "Yeah?".... I said "In your dream version it's really nasty and downtrodden like gypsies live there or really Oliver Twist-like isn't it?"

She freaked out... in a good way. 

In fact.. me Kath and Her both share the same DM and can chat about it as though we are talking about the same place. It's quite amusing.

Kath's niece is far too young to remember when it wasn't a big shopping complex and it was a slightly derelict, rundown area. Which then begs the question... over time.. will this area slowly conform to everyones new memories of it being a shopping complex?

Wow! That's fascinating! I've never had an experience like that but have just been wondering when I'm astral projecting in my lucid dreams (leaving my body and exploring these different landscapes) - how much they are controlled purely by my imagination. So it's very interesting to hear of your account of Dream Middlesbrough!

[Bedeekin]

I think if you got a group of people who went to the same school... and have dreams that take place in their school or childhood home/town their descriptions of the alternative nonphysical geography will tally. Most people don't talk about their dreams... they discard them as 'just a dream' or more than likely they are more interested in what the narrative was.

It could be that the large scale environments are similar and that small details.. .characters and scenario will be 'personal'... or that it will be coloured by the subconscious somewhat.

If two people set out on a mission to meet in a dream, Lucid dream or conscious projection then maybe details will be even more shared.

[Contenteo]

If I may rephrase your question:

If we one was to attempt to organize their dream experiences and astral experiences, could one correlate any patterns, linking the phenomenons? And if that is so, could tell me what it is because that sounds very useful.

This, I can answer more concisely.

Yes       &
Environment and Entities

With the environment, you should be observing the familiarity and complexity. The less familiar and more fantastical and beyond anything you could chalk up to your general imagination...the 'deeper' you are.

With the entities, I have found a personal trick. You should be observing the familiarity and quantity of entities in your general observable surroundings. If you have never seen any of the entities around you before, I reason you are probably picking up signal from outside your local brain activity.(aka, deeper than F21) The more there are entities, again, to an unimaginable amount, and I have personally seen some pretty insane amount of entities in experiences before, the deeper you usually are.

I have found these two factors stay in about the same familiarity/unfamiliarity ratio as you go deeper.

_{As control can wane and wax through different experiences. I'd like to add that I disregard that as a factor as a variable of the overall astral phenomenon. The quality of your connectedness with the astral phenomenon is purely subjective. If you are looking for any objectivity, large scale statistical verifiability is all anyone has to go on.  In that case, reading MANY articles in this forum and empathizing beyond this factor becomes a necessity rather than an option.}

In general, I have found it easier to go deeper more often in a dream state rather than a conscious one.
I allow and embrace spontaneity. To my surprise, knowledge of astral projection became more of a lifestyle than a pleasantry. 


Cheers,
Contenteo

[Lionheart]

In general, I have found it easier to go deeper more often in a dream state rather than a conscious one.
I allow and embrace spontaneity. To my surprise, knowledge of astral projection became more of a lifestyle than a pleasantry. 
Cheers,
Contenteo

This I find is true simply because in a Dream state the work is done. We are awaking in a full blown NPR experience.

A Conscious one is much harder because you need to lose physical focus and then find your way to the NPR. You have to get rid of all your daily distractions, muscle tightness, all kinds of things.

With Dreams, you are already there, you just have to heighten your awareness to where you are the Director, not just an actor in that scenario. This comes from first realizing that your physical body is asleep very comfortably in your bed, so this must be a NPR experience.

This is much easier said than done though!