Believing in OBE = Insanity

[James S]

Unless you visit a psychologist who is very open minded and spiritually aware, you are likely to be going away with a prescription for some drug that will stop you from having these "episodes".

I believe there's still too much of a gap between clinical psychology and metaphysics. The former has its grounding in so called proven scientific facts and history of case studies, which tends to leave no room for the latter.

One day it might catch up, but I'm not holding my breath.

Psychology is a science, and remember - science is the orderly arrangement of what, at the moment, seem to be the facts.

James.

[beavis]

I can move very small things just by thinking about it.
I hear other people's thoughts sometimes.
I sometimes talk to nonphysical aliens using telepathy.
One of my relatives was in a mental institute for a few weeks.
I am not afraid of death (but the dying part wont be fun).
I remember some short things that happened before I was born, probably on an other planet.

I am crazy. Give me the brainwashing pills.

I advise everybody here to not tell anybody wearing a suit about OBE. Its got me into some minor trouble.

[Leviiathan]

Christians are taught to believe that:

-- Clearing one's mind allows the Devil to enter
-- Leaving one's body allows the Devil to take it over.

If this similar interest group follows a believe system in
exploring a self-narcisstic state of godhood (enlightenment / knowledge, astral projection / courage, psychic ability / power), why is it that we are more understanding, more open to Christ, and more kind and humble than our Christian neighbors?

Where is our will to do evil or our will to harm others?

[PeacefulWarrior]

Leviiathan:

I appreciated your comments, however I can't help notice that you obviously have had many negative xpereinces with Christians and futhermore have developed a stereotypical perception of their beliefs.

You wrote:

quote:Christians are taught to believe that:

-- Clearing one's mind allows the Devil to enter
-- Leaving one's body allows the Devil to take it over.

If this similar interest group follows a believe system in
exploring a self-narcisstic state of godhood (enlightenment / knowledge, astral projection / courage, psychic ability / power), why is it that we are more understanding, more open to Christ, and more kind and humble than our Christian neighbors?

Where is our will to do evil or our will to harm others?

Just so you know, there are a lot of Christians (like myself) who don't believe the things you wrote, ie:
I don't believe clearing my mind is evil and I definetly am not any less kind, or don't try to be any less kind, that non-Christians.  

There are, in fact, Christian mystics, etc.  

Anyway, I don't want to get too deep into this, but the bottom line is that you are right to a degree...there are a lot of Christians who are very close minded, but there are also a lot of non-Christians, especially those from the "intellectual" communities who are just as close minded.

By playing into this game of judging and having prejudices, we are no better than these close minded, ignorant people.  The best way to help them is by example and by not judging them.

[MJ-12]

xc

[cainam_nazier]

The "standardized" tests don't allot for any judgement calls.  An actual person would have to talk to you about it before desiding.  However I also to believe that the current trendis that there is a drug for what ever your "problem" is.  I believe that many in the field are a little to quick to issue drugs where they should be more into exploring the "why" a person thinks like that.  And what effect it is having on thier life, if any.

And no I haven't been to a "real" psychologist.  But I have thought about it, just for the fun.


Almost forgot....I also think the movie K-Pax explores this area rather well.

[Randøm_]

quote:Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior

So the question is, what would a psychologist likely say?  Have any of you ever visted a psychologist or some health professional and told them about your OBE beliefs?

"Myths To Live By" (Joseph Campbell) addresses the links between schizophrenia and "inward journeys". Psychologically, you'd be diagnosed with schizophrenia (being weighed against only what is considered normal). This does NOT, however, mean that you're off your rocker. After all, it's a label. Keep on mind that psychology, itself, proves past theories wrong constantly, hence, changes.

Then again, your this response is being written by a schizophrenic, lol. Yet, I'm coldly logical and more sane than most people (since I have fewer irrational emotions.)

(In have a bone to pick with ya on your quote regarding marijuana, but I'll save that for later. )

[Mustardseed]

I would agree that the standard doctrines said to be Christian doctrines that clearing your mind is of the devil and obe as well is not Christian beliefs as such. I would think that ba lot of Christians would thaink so though but this is the problem with Christianity or Churchanity as I prefer to call it. They claim to be Spiritual giants but will stamp out spirituality as soon as they see it. They are so afraid of wildfire that they have no fire and are very cold spiritually as a result. However Christians are not a homogenious group and their application of the scriptures vary greatly. There are some interisting qoutes that say  " happy is the man in the thing wich he allows himself" " all things are lawful for me but all things does not edify" " God has given us liberty and against such liberty there is no law"it goes on and on.

[Grigori]

quote:Originally posted by James S

Unless you visit a psychologist who is very open minded and spiritually aware, you are likely to be going away with a prescription for some drug that will stop you from having these "episodes"...

That's an interesting thought ... do the "prescribed" drugs prevent the "episodes" by blocking ones ability? If so then are the people who are helped by the drugs simply those who cannot cope with the abilities ... in which case "Believing in OBE = Insanity" may be true []

[beavis]

MJ-12 "A psychiatrist who is in any way trained shouldn't care what you believe as long as you are able to function as a fully contributing member of society"

I dont want to contribute to your turd-filled society. Does that mean I should be drugged? You'll say yes if you're a good member of your society.

[PeacefulWarrior]

very interesting comments.  I am still waiting for someone who has actually gone in and talked to a psychologist and mentioned OBE's.  I am sure it's just as subjective as anything else so it would completely depend on the individual psych. and his or her beliefs abnd thgeories.

[phi]

quote:Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior

Just so you know, there are a lot of Christians (like myself) who don't believe the things you wrote, ie:
I don't believe clearing my mind is evil and I definetly am not any less kind, or don't try to be any less kind, that non-Christians.  

There are, in fact, Christian mystics, etc.  

Anyway, I don't want to get too deep into this, but the bottom line is that you are right to a degree...there are a lot of Christians who are very close minded, but there are also a lot of non-Christians, especially those from the "intellectual" communities who are just as close minded.

By playing into this game of judging and having prejudices, we are no better than these close minded, ignorant people.  The best way to help them is by example and by not judging them.

Thanks for your kind words PW. I know I've struggled with this issue myself. If I'm a Christen I can't believe this or that or do this or that. Or even having bad expierences with Christians so that must mean that Christianity is wrong.

[Lindasmith647]

I have been seeing a psychologist for about two years now and have had many conversations with him about my OBEs.  The psychologist has been helping me to clear out emotionally as part of my spiritual journey.  He seemed to rather enjoy my many tales about other realms and encounters with inorganic beings.  I even told him about the inorganic being I had in my bedroom and I left my body and threw the sucker out through the wall.  

He was a great source of support through my healing journey and I believe I helped him to do some growing as well.  

There are some progressive thinking psychologists out there.  Some of them will work with deep emotion healing and even take you back through your birth experience if that's where the problem lies.  If you read about Carl Jung he had some pretty amazing experiences himself with hearing voices and interacting with other realms.  I guess I was fortunate to find a psychologist where no discussion was out of bounds.  We did quite a lot of work with dream analysis and that really helped key in on some problem areas.  

Overall it was an excellent experience for me.

Linda.

[Fat_Turkey]

I see a psychologist/councellor on a regular basis, and I am open about my spirituality and my belief in other worlds and OBEs. He hasn't given me any pills.

Though I am curious to see what he is jotting down on that notepad of his...

Later
-FT

[Adrian]

Greetings PeacefulWarrior,

quote:Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior

very interesting comments.  I am still waiting for someone who has actually gone in and talked to a psychologist and mentioned OBE's.  I am sure it's just as subjective as anything else so it would completely depend on the individual psych. and his or her beliefs abnd thgeories.

How about Robert Monroe - that is exactly what he did in his early days of experiencing spontaneous OBE's. I think that is how TMI ultimately came about.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[PeacefulWarrior]

That's right!  I gorgot about that!  Thanks Adrian.

Also, thanks LindaSmith...your post is quite helpful.

Another question: Do you think it is correct to assume that the population of a wesbite like this one would have a higher percentage of people who have sought emotional/psychological help?

I personally do not, but then again I can imagine someone making the case.

[beavis]

Another question: No, but I think there is a higher % of us that OTHERS think should get help or be committed.

[sublime]

I am majoring in Psychology and hope to be a child psycholgoist some day. I have had OBE's and am very open minded about those issues. I have never actually been to a psychologist but my dad sees one on a regular basis and asked him about OBE's because i talk to him about my experiences. he said that many of his patients have experienced things like this but he doesnt know much about it. (and no he didnt send any pills home for me) [] Anyways, I have thought about how awesome it would be if a could score a job (later on after i have gone to grad school maybe) with a group of psychologists who will study metaphysical related issues on a higher level and maybe even start a school or something of the sort? i dont know just a dream i guess.

[npiv]

The Idea of astral travel is not so bizar in psychological terms. I place firm beliefs in science which has always made me skeptical of spiritual things.

There are so many accounts of OOB's that it has to be acknowledged that they do occur. The only question that remains is the actual leaving of the body. Psychologists can relate an OOB to a lucid dream and not a trip out of the body but one into the depths of the subconcious.

Even so, any open minded scientist should grasp the pure therapeutic and health aspects gained from these techniques. Mr Bruce's account of one meditation session where he turns over a card in his mind with great resistance. On the other side is an ugly mutation which he proceeds to destroy with a mind sword. The next day a big wart he'd had for years on his neck disappeared. []

Astral dynamics also grazes the topic when it talks about taping a playing card to the window and then using OOB to see what it is. Robert says it works but he also heeds not to take his word and try it for yourself.

As a scientist I can indeed not take this good man's word, But I will follow his advice.

[loco]

npiv,as you said:
"There are so many accounts of OOB's that it has to be acknowledged that they do occur. The only question that remains is the actual leaving of the body. Psychologists can relate an OOB to a lucid dream and not a trip out of the body but one into the depths of the subconcious."

I got the same answer from a psychologyst young friend.She listened carefully to my OBE reports,she seemed to understand every point (since they are normally open minded people)but she definetely didn´t look at the OBE as a fully functional phenomena.(And probably thought the vibrations and pulling-out shock were mere simptoms of some stress being relieved...)When she said: "It comes all from your mind,it´s a mental thing" I got so ticked-off I didn´t want to go on talking about it...
Greetings

[beavis]

loco "When she said: "It comes all from your mind,it´s a mental thing" I got so ticked-off I didn´t want to go on talking about it..."

Thats partially true (from somebodys mind, not just your own), but she made the mistake of thinking mind is contained in body.

[loco]

Beavis,
either don´t get your point or must say don´t agree with...I think there are other aspects involved in a OBE much more important  than our mind...as the energy  storage,for instance(if not the most). Maybe we missunderstood our own meanings of MIND here, I was talking(and she)of our  "generator/processor of thoughts and our everyday computer"....maybe you are talking about something more abstract.Did you?
In the only way I found my everyday mind helping me to OBE is when it gets out of the way.[] It was my mind the one that thought OBEs were not possible.and the one that now is having a though time dealing with its evidence
She was refering to the "mental think" as if my OBE had been  a very sophisticated product of my imagination. That was where I saw we were too far from each other

[Squeek]

The thing about psychologists is that they will tend to go with you in any case because that's what they're supposed to do.  If they didn't want to hear your stories, then you wouldn't give them money to have them hear it.

I personally think (even though it is a liable career choice for me) that psychology is relatively useless.  You're pretty much paying for a chance to talk to someone that's gonna listen to you for an hour a day.

That came off harsh didn't it?  Sorry.  Just my opinions

~Squeek (On the inside, psychologists think everyone is crazy)

[beavis]

loco "It was my mind the one that thought OBEs were not possible.and the one that now is having a though time dealing with its evidence"

That was your brain. Part of your mind that you use all the time is external to your body.

"as if my OBE had been a very sophisticated product of my imagination"

Everything (that I have seen) I think is a product of imagination, including all physical things. "Incarnate" in a physical object and use your imagination on it. It moves under your control. I have other reasons for believing that but cant be put into words.

[Frère]

I have become crasy for real, because I felt creatures around me in normal state and started to be afraid, and to do things that normal people don't just to sort out this problem... I put myself in such a state that I wanted ta believe only what would come from god or angels... I finaly was able to ask for help because an angel made me know that "god will present himself as my doctor"... which happend to be a psychiatrist, and of course drugged me like a madman. Anyway, there was no real problem for it was the first time, but now I am carefull with psy-whatever, because I'm sure there was a less "in-your-face" way to let me come back softly... but they don't know how, people who know what to do in such case are initiated, and you all should always have someone like this near them, because if ever there start to happen unpleasant things, you'll know who you can contact. My point of view is that psychatrist drugs can create real monsters who have extra-perception, but finaly are sedated or loaded with extra-"weight" (I mean psychic weight) in order to keep them "on earth" which only make of them strange constructions with tied legs and arms, floating strangely between two states, one is not complete and comes from drugs, and the other is too strong and wins over the rest chronicaly... this way nothing is taken fully, and you can never learn how to become a full human, standing beetween earth and heavens.