When does consciousness enter the fetus/baby?

[Hephaestus]

As far as I am aware to cry one would need to be able to breath (especially in order to make sound when crying). Since a baby in the womb doesnt breath and is fed oxygen via the umbilical cord I doubt a baby could cry in the womb - the baby doesnt start breathing until it is brought out the body and has its cord cut.

I think, anyway [] LOL

[EyesOfVengeance]

quote:Originally posted by Hephaestus

As far as I am aware to cry one would need to be able to breath (especially in order to make sound when crying). Since a baby in the womb doesnt breath and is fed oxygen via the umbilical cord I doubt a baby could cry in the womb - the baby doesnt start breathing until it is brought out the body and has its cord cut.

I think, anyway [] LOL

yes but she FELT her cry. How can you explain that? I don't think a simple kick would be mistaken for a cry.

[Adrian]

Greetings EyesOfVengeance,

quote:Originally posted by EyesOfVengeance
yes but she FELT her cry. How can you explain that? I don't think a simple kick would be mistaken for a cry.

It might have been a Spiritual connection, i.e. telepathic  communication between the mother and unborn child. Telepathy can sometimes manifest so strongly it can be heard in the mind as a physical voice, or cry in this case. Just a thought anyway.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Hephaestus]

quote:Originally posted by EyesOfVengeance

yes but she FELT her cry. How can you explain that? I don't think a simple kick would be mistaken for a cry.

Indegestion?[]

[DrShaman]

My source is Rick strassman's book DMT the spirit molecule, chapter 3. Check out

http://www.rickstrassman.com/dmt/chaptersummaries.html

and read what it says under the chapter "The Psychedelic Pineal"

quote:Originally posted by Shinobi

quote:Originally posted by DrShaman

According to the tibetans and DMT-scientist Rick Strassman
49 days after the fetus has been made, when the pineal gland starts to produce DMT.

I'm not sure of your source, but according to the Bardo Thodol (Tibetan Book of the Dead), the personal matrix (there is no permanent soul, by Western standards) becomes attracted through karmic influences to a particular couple engaged in intercourse.  Through those same sources, he/she is impelled into the woman's uterus and is born 9 months later.  

The 49 days you mentioned might be related to the longest time that a normal person remains in the bardo realm after leaving their current form.

Also, I've found interesting the number of folks who feel that if re-incarnation is true, then it makes abortion a moral non-event.  Wouldn't that same logic apply to the killing of a new born, or a teenager, or a full grown adult?  If the moral issue is with the ending of a human life, it wouldn't make sense to differentiate just based on the clock. Would it?

Anyway great reading everyone's take on this interesting topic!

[pmlonline]

Quote from the book "The Rosicrucian Philosophy In Questions and Answers Volume I"

Definitions:
Desire body = Astral body

==================
DOES THE SPIRIT ENTER THE BODY AT THE TIME OF CONCEPTION OR AT THE TIME OF BIRTH?

ANSWER: It has been ascertained by clairvoyant investigation that at the time of death the spirit takes with it the forces of one little atom located in the left ventricle of the heart, which is called the seed atom, for its the nucleus or seed around which all the material in the body gathers, and every atom on the body must be capable of vibrating in unison with that seek atom. Therefore, that atom is deposited in the semen of the father some time previous to conception, and later placed in the womb of the mother. But conception is not at all identical with the time of sexual union of the parents. The impregnated spermatozoa is sometimes not imbedded in the ovum until fourteen days after the union of the parents. It is this impregnation of the ovum that may be called the time of conception, for from the moment when the impregnated ovum leaves the Fallopian tube the period of gestation commences. During the first eighteen to twenty-one days, all the work is done by the mother, but at that time the reincarnating Ego, clothed in a bell-shaped cloud of desire and mind stuff, enters the womb of the mother and the bell-shaped cloud closes at the bottom so that it is then ovoid, or egg-shaped . Then the spirit is definitely enmeshed in the flesh and cannot escape any more, but must stay with the mother until liberated by birth. In the present stage of our unfoldment, the spirit does very little CONSCIOUS work upon its coming vehicle, but it is present all the time and helps UNCONSCIOUSLY in the task of providing its instrument. This is not more remarkable than that we are able to digest our food and work our respiratory organs without being conscious of the process.
==================

Peace & Love,
Paul

[EyesOfVengeance]

quote:Originally posted by Hephaestus

quote:Originally posted by EyesOfVengeance

yes but she FELT her cry. How can you explain that? I don't think a simple kick would be mistaken for a cry.

Indegestion?[]

haha ur so cruel []

[Athios]

I personally think the soul enters somewhere between the stage when you call the 'thing' an embryo, and when you call it a fetus. I just don't think there's any point in being there any earlier, since spontaneous abortions are common at early stages.

I somewhat agree with the idea that the soul may choose to incarnate into its life, even knowing it is to be aborted. Even if it does not get to be born, I think there is something to be learned or experienced through your physical and telepathic connection to the mother.

I don't strictly believe in hard-wired fate. I think we come into life knowing that we will face certain situtations and choices. And our life and lives of others are changed based on the desicions we make.

As for the abortion thing, I cannot honestly believe that ANY mother would just trivially decide "ooh, I don't want this baby." I would think that the option should be open to her (under certain circumstances), and she should be the one who makes the ultimate desicion. As for whether it's right or wrong, legal or not...well, I really don't care about the subject enough...

[Phil_Trance]

According to the astral world, when does consciousness enter a fetus?

For instance, when a deceased person wants to be reincarnated, at what point of the pregnancy process does the consciousness enter the fetus?  Immediately upon conception?  At birth?  Inbetween?