Messages

damn funny james.

do you meditate terry?  if you do try and settle into a nice meditation and ask yourself.  outside help is a plus in certain places but it really comes down to what you think will make you happy. but by all means post any questions you have here.

thanks fred but i've already tried that.  i looked around good but don't see how to do it.  it's not that big a deal but it's just something that kinda stares me in the face.  you are a really swell guy by the way.  

anyone else have any ideas?

hello fredhedd.  since no one else replied to your topic yet i'll try and help.  try going to the personal area info and looking for something like time setting, or time zone setting.  you could even try changing your 'where i live' setting and seeing what comes up.  hope this helps.  
fredhedd

psypunk, are you sure you had oobe's and you weren't phasing?  i only ask because everytime that i've tripped it seemed as though i phased and not oobe'd.  though now that i am thinking about it there was one time that it felt like i was about to oobe when i heard a voice that called my name.  it scared me back to the physical.

i remember going back to my physical body very quickly once out like you said.  most of the trip was like that.  it was more of a fear to completely let go or just to make sure that i was still going to be able to get back.  

the best orgasms i've ever had were while tripping.  i don't know if i can describe it but robert bruces description of astral sex seems familar.  it seemed that my whole body was in orgasm.

i always feel when my hands 'go numb' that it's actually my awareness expanding so much that i don't feel my hands anymore, but what's all around them.  keep that in mind the next time it happens, and when you do finally reach the full body trance.

pink floyd wrote some lyrics that remind me of trance evertime i hear them.  there is one part in particular that says something about 'my hands felt like two big balloons'.  i believe they are making reference to something similar to the trance state.  i say similar because i think in the song they are making reference to how it feels when you use heroin.  though i believe then when you use any substance that relaxes you like heroin is supposed to that you enter into the same trance state and maybe even some of the other consciousness states.  those experiences may be tainted though because of the drug.

i never really thought about it that way.  i agree and i'm going to do the same.

i don't understand what you mean about your dreams.  explain more please.

the pressure you feel is normal.  you will most likely start to like it.  spend as much time in that state as possible and get familar w/ it.  you'll read all about it when you get your book.  

did you say that you got your library to transfer it for you?  you may be cking it out every month.  

i just thought of something else that i think is interesting.  how a person looks physically will greatly effect the way they act.  being an butt because you think you are hot or being too shy because you aren't confident in yourself is common.

i don't want to counter counters.  we could be arguing about the same topic for weeks.  and since these are topics that can't be proved scientifically, there really is no right or wrong.  

i do however want to keep arguing.  i'd like this thread to just continue on.  after the posts rebutting my argument are finished there should be  another topic brought up.  

anyone?

mirador, were you saying that rodent mouses personality is hardwired and that everyone elses is the product of their culture, or everyones is hardwired and a product of their culture?  

by this do you mean that people are born w/ their personality and can't change it?  and by attempting to do so that they will go mad?  

rodent i think you hit on a good observation.  one that i think only applies to a few differnet music groups though.  rap, death metal, punk to name a few.  or at least, these are the ones that are most obvious.  a hardcore country fan or classical music fan wouldn't neccessarily tend to adopt a personality in tune w/ their music.  there would be more of a chance that they would just enjoy their music and go on w/ their personality.  

on the other hand the stereotypical personalities of these groups definetly mold themselves in accordance w/ the music they listen to.  they become their personality.  instead of creating their own from inside, they pick one according to the stereotype and strive to become that.  obviously if you could isolate any one of them for an amount of time you would see the personality change into something more real.  

as jilola said, music isn't the only thing that holds these stereotypes.  i'll bet that even someones race is responsible for their personality in some cases.  some people think that they should feel a certain way (hate or love) about certain things or even other races/cultures due to what they were born into.  

i guess no one really knows for sure but robert bruce wrote about it in astral dynamics.  from what i remember i have the feeling i don't hwave to worry about it.  i don't recall exactly what he said.  do you have the book?  if not, get it.

http://www.sleepfoundation.org/publications/sleepap.html

you got it

being observant is a really good way to be.  thinking too much about this stuff though is going to be counter-productive.  i could sit here and give you pages of detailed info but it's not going to help as much as just settling into trance and experimenting.  if you are serious about projecting you should buy astral dynamics.  read it a few times.  the book is huge and worth the money.  i'm not trying to brush you off, i like helping people on here.  

all of those sensations you described are what should tell you you are in trance.  it should be fairly obvious when you are in it.  spend some time there.  move energy around.  play w/ your thoughts.  

the point shift method: your awareness is usually on your body.  if you are watching tv it's on there.  before you lay down to do your trance work take a look around your room.  

imagine what it would be like if you were actually going to be hovering above your bed three feet.  look at the walls and the ceiling.  imagine what it would feel like to be that much closer the top of the house and that much further away from the floor.  every aspect that you can think of.

when you are comfortable w/ the level of trance you are in, recall all of those memories and try and imagine as best you can that you are already projected and are in that same spot. try and feel what it would be like knowing that your physical body was three feet below you.  

during normal projection there is  strong pulling sensation from your physical body.  it's always pulling your astral body back into it.  this continues thoughout the projection process and until you are about fifteen to twenty feet away from your physical body.  try and imagine that feeling of tugging that your physical body would be doing at that moment and how much effort it will take to just stay hovering there.  you want to shift your awareness to that spot.  

just lying down and doing point shift will take you right into trance and right out of your body if done correctly.  it may be the most effective tek yet.

i heard from someone who was studying the 'fight or flight' subject that humans are the only animal we know of that are capable of producing both the chemicals at the same time.  it may be why we get to choose if we fight or flee in a situation when we feel strongly that we should be doing the opposite.  other animals don't get the choice we have.  they are born either the kind that will fight no matter what, or the kind that will just freeze in terror and be killed.

cainam, even though we have  more of a scientific know how on what chemical gets released where and when, i don't think it's fair to brush it off as being 'just science'.  maybe we'll never have machines or tests that will allow us to guage what's going on inside of us during meditation or projection.  if we did we wouldn't just start saying 'oh that's just science'.   we know where adreneline is produced and where it goes, blah blah blah.  we don't know how adreneline exists in the first place. we really only know some charecteristics of it.  it seems like as soon as we find out more about something we settle for that explanation.  i believe for every chemical reactin the body has there is another reaction somewhere else that we can't scientifically measure yet.  maybe in the astral, maybe in our energy body, who knows.  that could even be what tells the adreneline gland to secrete, or to tell the brain to tell the adreneline gland.  

i believe anything is possible.  still it's hard for me to sit down and try and perform tk on a rock weighing five thousand lbs.  i feel that i can move the rock but maybe there is a part of me that still feels otherwise.  maybe that's why i can't move it.  

maybe when you are in a situation that calls for something out of the ordinary to be done, that you fully believe that you can accomplish whatever is needed.  maybe it's mind over matter w/ the strong belief that it can be done. or maybe all of those people had a can of spinach in their shirt and they popped it out, opened it up w/ their pipes and took care of business.  

i agree

i think there was a post about this movie a while back.  a search might bring it up.  i may have even started it.  

the thing about the lights is something i remember when i'm lucid.  anytime i've tried to control the lighting it has worked for me.  i've turned lights on and off all of the time.  once i even made the sun go down.  it was damn fun.

my take on the quote - there are certain things that most everyone would say that they know for sure.  one would be ' i know i m sitting here typing this to you right now.'  the reason i feel i know this is because i can see myself doing it, hear the keys, feel my body in this chair, smell the soap on myself from the shower i just took, and taste the toothpaste still in my mouth.

anything that we think we know comes from the input our senses give us.  if the input was changed or the senses altered in a way that would change the information, then what we know would now turn into something completely different. we would then 'know' something else.  the wise man knows that he doesn't know anything to be actually taking place like most other people 'know'.  the only thing he knows for sure is that he doesn't actually know anything else to be for real.  he just perceives and acts accordingly.  we.
all that i know is i exist.  i comprehend, i feel.  i don't know that you exist.  for all i know you could be a figment of my imagination.  i guess you could say then, that there is a chance that i m talking to myself right now.  

also, earlier when i said i could tell you what my take on the quote was or you could think about it for yourself, i meant that in a 'i don't want to spoil the end of the movie for you' type way and not in a 'i know for sure and i'll tell if you can't figure it out way'.  just in case that came out the wrong way.

you shouldn't worry about how long it takes you to get into trance.  just getting in should be your concern.  after you've been in a few times for a nice amount of time you will become more familiar w/ it.  after that all you'll really have to do is think about what you felt then, remembering as much as you can.  this may be esaier to enter trance than using the falling sensations.  

when you do enter trance, do you feel it throughout your entire body?

if i'm understanding your posts correctly, you can enter a decent enough trance state but you lose it when you try and project.  i would say that you are either unknowingly slightly tensing up then, or you are concentrating on your body more then which is bringing your awareness back to it.  either of those will lessen your trance.

a good tek to try is robert's point shift.  there may be something in the treatise about it.  if not i know for sure it's in ad.  you didn't mention wether or not you read astral dynamics yet.  the point shift tek deals w/ picking a point outside of your body and shifting and holding your awareness there.  if you are laying down, a good place to shift your awareness to would be the place in your room that you are trying to project to, ie. three feet above you.  try to imagine as hard as you can, believe even  that you are actually hovering three feet above your bed.  i've gotten some incredible projection symptoms from this tek the first time i used it.  

this tek may be one of the harder ones to learn but it's one of the most effective.  it should keep more awareness away from your body.  

note: frank is definetly not mumbling novice under his breath.    he's had it harder than most of us starting out w/ this stuff.  i dont remember how many years he has been doing this but most of the beginning for him was done w/out the use of the internet or these awesome books we have now.  he has had more than his fair share of trial and error.  it's probably why he's been able to help so many of us.  

practice, practice, practice

if you guys want to read accounts of peoples trips, go to that site i listed above.  i haven't been there in a while but if i remember correctly there should be bunch.

using substances usually leaves you less in control.  when you trip you don't have any control over when it's going to end.  if you start to have a bad  time and can't control it there is a chance you will end up having the worst time of your life.  maybe you've heard of people saying they have had 'bad trips' before.  some people take hallucinogens hundreds of times and will never have a bad experience. others will report their experience as being trapped in their version of hell for what feels like a hundred years when in this reality it was only the duration of the trip.  

it's recommended that all astral experiences be done w/out the aid of substances because if something goes wrong you can always come right back to the physical.  the experience may also be tainted due to whatever was used as a catalyst.  

as far as i know there are no physical reasons why you shouldn't use mushrooms to ap.  i have researched them quite extensively in the past.  http://www.erowid.org/index.shtml  this site will provide you w/ more info on the mushrooms and will have tales of other peoples trips.  the whole 'bad trip' scene should also be in there somewhere.

as far as i'm concerned those mushrooms are fantastic.  if you feel you are stable enough to be alright w/ totally losing control of yourself and having your reality shattered to see what's really here then this is the easiest way to do it.  i haven't tripped that many times but those times are responsible for my life as it is now.  i probably wouldn't be on any kind of spiritual path if i wasn't ever experienced to hallucinogens. all for the better.  have lotsa fun.

when i used to try and have wilds i would lie awake for hours.  i never figured out what the problem was.  looking back on it now i'm thikning that i wasn't relaxed enough.  can you enter into a trance?  if you could do that and wait for some hypnagogic imagery it may work.  easier said than done.  
being awake and concentrating too hard usually goes hand in hand w/ being too tense.  no matter how long you lay there for.

its' not the screen that hurts my eyes but the excersize itself.  anyone?

it's very jolting when you fall out due to how tired you are.  sux when you are driving and it's starting to happen.  i don't know if i'd ever be able to just go w/ it.  it hits me too hard.

you had me going for a minute.  the first few lines i was thinking, 'did i tinkle someone off already?'  good job.

thinking that aliens could exist is acceptable.  firmly believing they do is not.  unless you've had some experience that has shown you that they do exist then it's not really safe to say otherwise.  taking things on faith is dangerous and will kind of give you a weak belief.  
w/ all of our capabilities it's still not been proven that aliens exist.  leaving aside the x-files bit and roswell stuff.  even though we've barely scratched the surface of universe exploration we haven't found life anywhere else but here.  anywhere.  that's kind of hard to go up against.  it just seems more likely that someone came up w/ the idea of aliens and a lot of people took to it.  right now there is the idea floating around that aliens exist.  now when events take place or discoveries are made that can't be explained it's just so convenient to say 'aliens'.  no proof man.  no proof is hard to go up against.   no proof w/ no experience is even harder.  to have a belief w/out one of those two is flimsy.

i don't think i can argue the healther bit.  that would just come down to science.  it either is or isn't.  

things happen because of a reason is more correct than things happen for a reason.  things happen because something made them happen.  not things happen because things are supposed to be  a certain way.  if you believe in fate then free will is out the door.  believing that free will doesn't exist would kind of make all of this pointless.  we would be here just to experience something that was already mapped out.  we couldn't really learn from mistakes that weren't ours in the first place.  if you believe in fate and free will then drinking a bottle of poison will only kill you if that was your fate.

if two people commit the same crime but one of them gets away w/ it then they each learn a different lesson.  one may learn that he feels what he did was wrong.  the other may feel the opposite.  they both may learn how to be better at the crime they committed.  either way the consequences aren't the same.  it's easy to think everything happens for a reason.  

say an event takes place 'a' which in turn allows even 'b' to take place.  it's easy to  think 'a' was supposed to take place because w/out it 'b' would never have been possible.  and since 'b' did take place 'a' had to have taken place.  that's illogical. it's just an easy way of thinking.  like laying the responsibility for unsolved mysteries to the aliens.