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It's not worth it, Sare.

My attacks started just as I was getting ready to implement, and I have still tried to implement under attack.


I wrote a lot, wrote to people, celebrities, organizations specifically like Southern Poverty Law Center  

quote:http://splcenter.org/

, trying to supply a different perspective on race relations. Whether anybody got or did anything with them is beyond me. But that was my sweat, my money, my effort, to try, which is what more than most people do in a lifetime.

I'm not going to turn this into an argument James. I have experience. You think you have to have the deliberate intent to be hateful for an action to produce something hateful...no you do not. You can intend one thing and produce something entirely different. You feel half the equation and don't feel the other half because you're too busy reacting.

I wrote my discertation on world peace in university and won first place. That isn't boasting I did it, any more thatn Mick or Spectral boasting about what they can do. It can be done.

You don't have to be a bad person to do something hateful, and that is what is happening here, you are hearing people calling you a bad person instead of listening to how your actions affect others, which is what they have been trying to tell you. You can't kill this argument, kick me off, someone else will bring it up.

Thank you, James, I've been looking for my starter thread for a while now...

I still come here for a reason, and it isn't for my own benefit anymore, I don't need help anymore, and no, it isn't beat you up either. Given that you probably would over react and not understand there is no point in trying.

quote:Guess who she gives the highest priority here? - That's right, herself.

No I am not, the highest priority goes to other. You still think I'm just talking about myself and not other people. I don't think you will ever see it as being other people.

Nita, I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to break my promise because you're too right. People don't want to believe it can happen to them ("not that we don't believe," give me a break, you think we're all being attacked by thought forms), and they will invest as much hate as they can to get rid of the sight of fear or perceived weakness or avoid responsiblity. You're not going to get past this, you're going to kill it at the first sign of it's head appearing, it'll keep coming up and coming up and coming up. Sam's right, denial isn't a river in Egypt.

And since people will always believe I'm talking about myself instead of others, (really don't want to listen to that message at all)...the Astralpulse is not one post. And the people that did support me are all but gone and for a darn good reason (who's seen Ninja Chipmunk and for how long). This place is the sum of it's posts, good and bad. And as of right now the sum is a negative number.

quote:So Dark knight, you didn't leave. It seems you decided to stay, but for what reason?

You really don't know, do you...and that has to be the saddest reason of all.

Hatemongers...

quote:You will choose a lesson and get a high off of the power you recieve, instead of getting a high off of people. You stay outside of creation and act as if you're not a part of it, then claim you are. Don't worry, I'm leaving, thank you.

You aren't going to be able to walk away from this forever. I'm going to drag the spotlight on this mentality. Challenging something doesn't make a person a victim, and guess what, challenging you and not taking the spot light off of you doesn't take your choices away. You still have them, you still have free will, there are still consequences, and you are still responsible for them.

Needing support occasionally isn't being a victim, it's being human.

You think you're defensive now...

I sent an email to Adrian requesting my membership be revoked that day. Metal Ice ran after me and brought me back, albeit several weeks later, and she stays away from this place unless she learns something new. Love that quote though.

Dark Phoenix...I really, Really, REALLY think you should try to talk to Spectral Dragon.

I'd still like to hear more, but if you're not sure, I suggest talking to Spectral Dragon and maybe even Sam in private.

Thank you findtruth, sorry I didn't trust more []

quote:So... The point here is that people need to be recognized that they are experiencing pain and fear when they are experiencing pain and fear and need help, or it takes away their humanity.

A little more than that, Findtruth, it has to do with how you treat people and their needs. Recognizing is step one, not the finish line. What you do with the recognition is the next step. Like Maya Angelou used to say it's like little murders, first someone takes one small piece of yourself, then another, then another....it doesn't happen over night, it whittles away over time. People want to deal with their problems by running away and you can't run away forever. You run out of room and run out of safety.

Findtruth, people under attack need assistance so they can cope with their situations and actually be able to walk away from little stuff...walk away to think, feel, do something positive. Then over time as they can do more and more on their own, get stronger, cope with more complex situations, they can't fight the negs off themselves. But when you not only invalidate people, but thrust your expectations, your fear onto them, force them to cope with it plus the attacks, plus everyday responsibility...you isolate the person, they begin to cannabalise themselves to stay alive, and fall deeper in the grip of the imposing neg. You're not separate from people or creation, and your actions do have an impact on the world and others both positive and negative.

Hang on Spectral, let's wait and see first what it feels like to Sain first, communication is hard sometimes.

quote:Everyone here accepts your experience. What we do not accept is the reflection of your pain you project onto others - all of your demands and accusations. That is the truth of it, the truth that you can not bear to face.

That we do not accept responsibility for your pain, that wounds you deepest. If we are responsible for your pain, then it must follow that you are responsible for ours - is that true? No - because THAT we do not accept. We know that the best defense is no need for a defense in the first place.

Then I'll quote Nita:

quote:by Nita Hello Everyone
People always want to remove the fear they feel when hearing about psychic attacks. It seems that most people do it by attacking the ones with the problems. It is easy to do and they can feel that they are superior and it will never happen to them.
Balance is important in magic and defense along with blocking and techniques. I always advise people to never use attacks as they can be reversed and the victim can suffer even worse. That was a good quote by Robert, Dark Knight.
Nita http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10569

I'm sorry about that Nita and that is the last time I will use something you have written.

No one under attack can bear withstand total invalidatation because it chips away at everything that makes you human and a part of creation. The only way to refuse responsiblity for how your actions affect others is to cut yourself off completely from creation and deny other.

You have to deal with fear and you have to deal with reality. You can't use a positive attitude to wish reality away so you don't have to move through the unpleasant aspects you don't want to touch.

quote:People always want to remove the fear they feel when hearing about psychic attacks. It seems that most people do it by attacking the ones with the problems. It is easy to do and they can feel that they are superior and it will never happen to them.

Just short end of the stick...you don't get rid of fear by running away from it and being closed to it. You have to move through fear to unravel it...that's how you get self confidence and will to defeat negs. People that have the freedom to walk away from their problems will find it will catch up with them eventually. And people forced into walking away when they darn well can't self destruct.

Sain

Just curious, what happens as the presence just stands next to your bed? Does it just stand there, is there any pressing sensation in the legs with energy raising through your spine, do you feel fear because this is something unknown and you don't know how to deal with it, or does it inflict fear in you?

I know it's often hard to do, but we really need more information, a general description could be anything. Do the best you can.

quote:Perhaps you would like to expand on why you think that you have been altered.

I think it might have to do with Dark_Phoenix seeing himself as a dragonoid...I think.

It's always hard to communicate this stuff, but can you please tell us if that is it or not? Have you spoken to Spectral Dragon?

quote:With regards to entities, that is genuine astral entities, what you say is correct. In this respect an astral entity will exist whether the scenario is of your creation of not. Thought form created by a projectors imagination won't make an entity come or go as the projector pleases, but it will affect how the entity is percieved, and that perception might go as far as no longer seeing it as being there. The average astral entity is not malicious, and would probably just be curious as to why you're there. If it sees no desire on your part to make contact, it will probably just go off somewhere else.

Then I'll ask again, why not go and see for yourselves if they are thought forms or real astral entities. And if you don't want to fine, just don't make assumptions about what people are and are not experiencing.

quote:1: People that need a more positive outlook, or better ways of thinking about things

One more thing about Sam's category 1, the people that fall into this side of the argument...this is the lesson you are supposed to be learning when interacting with people under psychic attack. You need to learn a better way of thinking about things, chiefly how to treat other people and how you see yourselves in their situation, and in creation, and I don't see it happening.

Sorry for re-posting, just seems like the longer the post, the less likely someone is going to read it.

quote:1: People that need a more positive outlook, or better ways of thinking about things
2: People that are influenced by an entity beyond their ability to cope

Something I'd like to add to this, Sam.

People in category number 2 can eventually become the people in category 1, but things have to change first for that to take place. First, the people in category 2 need to have their lives stabilised so they can cope effectively, so that thing like everyday family and work responsibilities can be maintained withour feeling like they're gonna die. This will enable people to walk away from situations so they can cope in a healthier way instead of cannabalising themselves to stay alive. Then the people in category 2 have to be reintroduced to things like having their personal dignity honored and respected. The point of doing that is bring people back into feeling like they are part of creation. If a person under attack is not being respected and is told to walk around and look at the creation, look at the life, you know what you're having that person do? You're teaching the person everything else has value but them, they are outside the creative force deserving honor and respect. We need to feel we are a part of that force to defeat negs, and when you put the cart before the horse in the manner I have just described above, you are isolating a person and giving the neg everything it wants to manipulate and control it's prey.

Once those two things have been satisfied, then the people in category 2 can become better people in the manner of category 1. If it isn't, forget it.

Why don't you just hand the person under attack over to the neg on a silver platter, it's more direct.

[KNOW]

Now I KNOW I am healing, because I am remembering things I wrote about before my attacks.

In final response to why can't everyone be treated equally all the time...because the universe was created as a system of balance, and the definition of balance is not making everything qual. Balance is "more than enough" giving it's extras to "less than enough."

If everything was equal all the time, we wouldn't feel anything out, wouldn't make priorities, wouldn't have an identity. We'd be empty shells devoid of personality. Feeling out values and priorities, and rearranging them when necessitated, defines us and enables ourselves to look in the mirror and see ourselves.

Sam,

what you're describing is the context of the situation.

quote:i felt my life slip away and being transported to a 'spirit world' full of dead people. and i found myself in a dragonoid form.

Have you spoken to Spectral Dragon and asked his opinion?

From what I've read on thought forms, there is more to the experience than just that. What about level of intensity? I mean if what Nay is describing is true, you could just change your attitude and pop it goes away...I've questioned Spectral at Length...constantly...on his perceptions and there does appear to be a difference between interacting with a thought form that goes pop and a neg that doesn't.

[ANY]

quote:Quoted by Wantsumrice
don't really understand what you mean by this statement. Someones own emotional distress is his/her own buisness. I understand you might want to come to the forum and post your problems, but those are ones own problems for YOU to deal with. I've been going through a lot lately and I don't feel the need to implement my feelings on others here, just out of courtesy.

All right, you've been gone too long,...recap#1.....

No, repeating once again, I am not talking about my experiences in those threads, and I am not asking for help, I got help and am doing fine now, thank you for your concern. [] My experiences are not what I am bringing up here.

You're absolutely right, implementing your feelings on others is rude...and that is exactly how people under attack have been treated and received coming here.

Why will it drop like a rock? Because the post above does what I have been saying is needed, you have to move through emotion and fear to get through a situation like this, and that is the one action people under psychic attack have been blocked on over and over in this forum,...because ANY recognition or experience of fear or anger is defined as a negative attitude. Then when people suffering attack are blocked and can't move through anything, they get the blame for not taking responsiblity for their lives and problems. The blockers need to take the blame and change their attitudes and perceptions towards others and themselves. How you treat others is a mirror reflection of your soul, your fear, your flaws,...you have the responsiblity to learn a lesson as well as people under psychic attack...and I don't see it happening. I see the blockers forcing their lessons on others instead of assuming the responsiblity themselves.

In all fairness, Nita, you'll have to change you post because I editted mine.

And I'll leave it at that...recap#2 has been conveniently relocated at the very end of this post, with corresponding links.

quote:http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.aspTOPIC_ID=10249&whichpage=4
All right then, we'll give it a try...problem is, Fuzzy, the blocks that happen here aren't singular quotes they are entire contexts. And that is how I am going to describe them.

People under attack have a hard time making life work and have to compromise a tremendous amount of themselves just to make it through the basics of life,...have to fight sometimes to get the energy to get up and in the morning. Then on top of all that, they have to endure the abuse of people wanting to force fit their experiences onto theirs. When you tell them their ideas aren't working, you're told no, you're just being irresponsible, or just being negative, why don't you put in any effort...as if making life work as best they can wasn't an effort. Your experiences are the end all, so it should work, and you deliberately put people who are under attack on the defensive to force it to be true. You forcibly challenge them to prove your wrong. The people suffering from psychic/supernatural attack are trying to cope with everyday life survival, they need serious help, not games...investing energy into something that does not work is just more energy depletion. It's called honoring and respecting the self (how that is negative I have no idea). People who are under attack are expected to prove why they should have their needs respected...how in the hell do you prove that, especially when the consequences are flat out rejected as happening in reality.

Well, forcing individuals to defend themselves on why they should have their experiences and needs respected works as intended...shuts up people suffering attacks real well...can't move through something or take responsibility without acknowledging it exists. No focus, energy stops flowing, blocks form. Since you can't defend yourself, you end up playing a game that doesn't work which causes you to lose more energy (and that is what I call being positive for the hell of being positive). That is what I call positive for the hell of being positive. Tends to tinkle you off after a while (That is the point, God gave us the power to become angry as a pain receptor to warn us when our value is being diminished...that isn't a negative thing).

When we do protest we get, "Why are you getting upset, it's just an opinion, just a theory." If it is just an opinion, just a theory, why are do you need to drive home the idea that individuals under attack aren't positive enough, are lazy, and irresponsible. You don't accept the idea that you can be overwhelmed, why? What's the motivation? You're more than willing to put forward the intent of giving the idea, but you don't want any of the consequences that go along with it (noticed that's a theme in a lot of these threads, lot's of mention of the initial intent, no follow through). You don't even acknowledge the consequences exist...you take all the benefits and none of the responsibility. Your ego does all the work and you take all the credit.

This kind of behavior takes its toll after time...Fuzzy, Sam, during the Christmas Holiday I exchanged emails with a former member of this site who was on the verge of suicide. She couldn't do it anymore, couldn't cope with the attacks and try to engage the forced defensiveness of the love and light loonies. That is the consequence this behavior creates. Hey when you convince people they have to prove they need their experiences respected, and that person can't, the logic becomes "I don't deserve respect." I showed her something, I won't say what. She wrote back saying that I had confirmed something she had been suspecting and it made her feel better. I gave the suggestion, she pulled herself up (she deserves the credit not me, I only validated something she had already thought of).

I keep hearing the "We got over abuse" line over and over. Yes, in answer to James' question, that was a positive thing, in it's OWN place and period. What is wrong is using it as the insertion point for every other experience their after. Like saying, "I gave to the poor so now I can rob a bank and use my previous experience as a cover and claim credit." You cannot use a past experience as a substitute for dealing with the present. The positive of overcoming abuse is no more a substitute than alcohol, drugs, food, or shopping. You deal with a situation in the present on it's own individual merits and yours. You not only drag it into the present you use it as a club to beat people to death with. Your "positive experience" is not more valuable than the person you are alledgedly trying to help, or the things you have to destroy inside that person to make it so.

And don't give me this crap about helping or having compassion for people...there is a big difference between the abusive situations you were in and the situation a person under psychic/supernatural attack is in. When you were being abused, it was your hide on the line if you didn't overcome it. You had to do everything required of you to get over it. But when people being attacked ask you for the same help and the same requirements are demanded, you give as much as you want to, and whine when more is asked of you. Who's hide are you thinking about? And do you really need a damn shrink to explain to you that people don't have to defend themselves to have their needs respected? Is that what it's come down to, we need shrinks to explain to us how to treat people? That is beyond pathetic.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10249&whichpage=8People under attack have been put on the defensive and given the responsiblity to prove and justify why their feelings need respect and understanding. This is a devastating thing to do to any human being under any kind of attack, physical, spiritual or otherwise. People don't have to give a reason to feel, they are human that is all they need. And feeling anger, fear, or sorrow is not negative, it is part of moving through the healing process. Everytime feelings are challenged and put on the defensive for unreasonable reasons the healing process comes to a dead stop. Then the person under attack is blamed for not getting over it, and it's not their fault. They're trying to take responsiblity by moving through it and identifying everything and their blocked every step of the way.

Kakkarot, this is more than not believing in what a person is going through...kakkarot, people under attack have been given advice and if it didn't work in their case, they were blamed for it not working. I recommend blessed ritual salt bathes, but even I don't have the ego to believe if it doesn't work in a particular person's case it's because they're negative or not trying. People under attack that I have been speaking to privately have been doing things that do not work or help their situations just to be "accepted by the group." Just so they don't feel alone...but in actuality it's the worst kind of loneliness there is...being surrounded by people and utterly alone. Others were too weak to pretend, they had already compromised too much, so they left, and they really needed help and support...God only knows what happened to them. If a person dies and no one hears the scream did he/she really die? You guys only heard me screaming so you thought I was only talking about myself (it's just past tense rhetoric, I am fine now, really, I'll just keep saying it)?!

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10249&whichpage=9

Kakkarot, you get the things you have in life because of compromise. You may not feel the effects of the compromise because you live in a "world" where there is cooperation, respect, and compromise between people to lessen the load. The compromise made to get what you want isn't painful or is neglibly so. When a person gets no cooperation or respect, the only person they have to compromise with is themselves (self). You literally have to compromise whole parts of yourself to get what you need to survive. Do you understand what that means? It means you're in a situation where you can't walk away from anything because you have to do everything yourself. That kind of compromise is extremely painful, destructive of self, and frightening...and then they're being attacked on top of it. You don't get better slowly over time because what you're doing is essentially cannabalising yourself.

I didn't start getting seriously better until I got that help, cooperation, and compromise because I didn't have to compromise all of myself anymore to get what I needed. I could use that freer portion for other things, like enjoying life, enjoying people, seeing more of the positive.

Kakkarot, people forced in a position to compromise their self to survive (not even live, survive) can't see the positive because there is nothing positive about being forced to live that way. You walk around making affirmations and see that everything else around you has value except you,...so you continue to say the mantras all the fluffy bunny people want you say, all the while dying slowly and painfully inside...and there is total awareness every waking second of everything inside you which dies...you have to look at to compromise it. Everything a neg wants in a subject they get when people in pain are treated this way.

One year ago this month I was in the middle of the download. On Feb 13, 2003 I was fired from my job because the channeling was so severe I was muttering to myself, would stare out into space for long hours, and could not function or interact with others at all. I was taken into protective custody with my parents and watched as they and the family dog were channeled. I'd hear in my head, "We'll make sure they send you to the hospital, [Dark Knight], we'll make sure you never get out." I had no idea what the hell was happening to me. At one point I walked out to the nearby lake and looked at all the icebergs and thought I could walk out there and end it (and ending meant no life beyond the body or being ripped to shreads by whatever was one my case, anything to end it). I could've walked out there and no one would have found my body till the spring. I would've been ruled a suicide and no one would have known what had actually happened to me.

How many people has this happened to, and how many people really needing help came to this site on their last legs only to be driven away? This argument is petty but the suffering are not. This has to stop.

quote:I think we should also learn to agree to disagree and when to keep silent.

There is a time and place (A season) to agree to disagree, and there are occasions when the disagreement somehow has to be resolved. There is a time to let go and a time to be right...knowing when is the trick.

I seem to recall writing something on prioritizing values. Here it is:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10576

Not validating or recognizing a person when they are in dire straights or making an effort to see and understand what they need is as bad as turning them away...treating people as if they were invisible.

There also has to be realistic goals to set. To overcome this and take responsiblity, a goal has to be set that is attainable. Setting unrealistic goals that can't be met dooms personal responsiblity from ever getting off the ground. Philosophizing about what the goals might be never solidifies anything or creates anything positive. Failure after failure and precious energy sucked away.

That's not a life. Action creates and solidifies in the physical world we live in, not philosphizing or good intentions.

quote:Isn'tit too shallow to think that just by being positive, then positivity will return to you. If you're negative then you'll receive same. Life is really a lot more than any cliche we could ever read. The issue with this type of thinking is that we only have one segment of the truth, instead of the full truth.

These sayings are only guidelines accepted by most, with no clear validation, they do not address complexity ,what happens when these guidelines do not seem to work.

No, it's not the black and white reality people thing it is.

You have to feel things out and test, and testing means chekcing to see if you are right or wrong. But you have to take responsiblity at some point, you can't keep philosophizing forever over whether or not something is or is not happening. The same way people had to hop in a boat and sail out to see if the world really was flat and they'd fall off the end of the world, you have to try things out to see if they are true. We are different and experiences are complex, we are not so different that we are aliens. If I shoot you with a gun, I'm theorizing you will cry ouch and start to bleed. Just a theory...and I'll cling to that one concept as more often than not it tends to be true. Many different things can happen, but I don't see anyone checking to see what the exact conditions are that making the situation to be in the first place.