LDs a Paradise for Perverts? & Future experiments!

[TheLunatic]

quote:
1. You shouldn't say things about God that you don't know or true.
2. I wonder how many people have lucid dreams/fantasies about having sex with a member of their family
3. I thought you generally couldn't conrtol dreams, or is everyone psychic here and somehow able to?

No one knows anything to be true or false in relation to god so point one is kind of a bad point.

Point two? I'd say alot of people do but not many would confess.

Point three? It has nothing to do with psychic powers everyone can have lucid dreams. There are lots of books and information about the subject. It is simply a dream where you know you are dreaming.

[jc84corvette]

quote:Originally posted by TheLunatic

quote:Originally posted by Mustardseed

If your statements are true. which they might not be they say more about your present attitude than anything. I have also had a chance to live out some sexual fantasies but since they did not appear normal to me they ended the LD. If killing off folks and all the stuf you did did not wake you up I would have a serious question about you. No offence meant here. Maintaining a lucid dream requires a fair bit of consentration for me and anything that outrageous would in my opinion only be possible for someone for whom this behaviour is either natural or such a strong urge that it has been lived out in fantasies multiple times before
Regards MS

I disagree with you completely. People shouldn't try and sensor their dreams because they think they are doing something wrong in them. Just because you dream about something doesn't mean you are evil or a bad person. Dreams are outlets for subconscious desires and fears.

Don't judge others because they have the freedom to explore themselves in dreams. We all have animalistic desires even if we don't realize it.

Dreams are great places to off load negative feelings...

I encourage everything to dream freely and without regrets or worry!

You summed it up.

[MiStACoRn]

What about people who may be having urges for these sorts of things and are fulfilling them in LDs to release the frustration of not being able to to them in RL?  People have a tendancy to write off fetishes and non-socially acceptable desires as perversions and deem the person who has them as "not normal" to seperate them from themselves.  Fact is.. all it takes is a little nurture or nature for you to become just like any of those people.  People go through things that you could never even imagine and it scars them mentally... and people respond by treating them like lunatics.  If somebody had cancer, would you treat them the same way?  Just because somebody has a mental disposition that makes them take a pleasure in a perversion doesn't mean they can control how they feel about it.. and fulfulling those pleasures in LDs can probably be very useful in taking the frustration out of RL so when an opportunity does come up that *will* effect RL.. they won't because they're not completely starved of it.

Also.. as for the having sex with family members thing and who fantisizes about it and whether or not it's "perverse".. I love how people just think that things are wrong but they have no idea why they think that way.  Not that I go around having sex with family members, (and I don't say that to seperate myself from those types of people.. but to avoid the negative social repercussions), but I do protect people's desires and fantasies to do it.  If you really believe that having sex with another family member is *wrong* and perverse, then I urge you to do some research and look up the history of incest and why it became a cultural taboo.  (and no it doesn't have to do with religeon, although religeon adopted the taboo and practically made it law).  Also.. if you think it's because their offspring will have 14 toes you're way off.  Pick up a biology book.

I certianly don't encourage hurting others or pedofilia.  But don't judge people who happen to fantasize or test their limits with stuff like this in LDs.  It's human nature to be curious, and it doesn't make them bad people.  They're only a stone throw off from you, and they also probably don't approve of a lot of your morals as well.  Plus some of these people don't even know why they feel that way or they have these urges and don't want them.. and they have to deal with that themselves.  Not that it makes it ok... but people who really have problems with these kinds of things obviously need help.. (and only because what they're doing effects and hurts themselves or others.. not because somebody else says it's bad) ..but don't judge a person for what he thinks or dreams about.  I'm sure if we opened up any of your minds and exposed it for all the things you've ever thought about doing or dreamt about you'd have a hard time telling other people they have problems.

[Tombo]

Incest is  biologically bad, cause if the close family members have offspring there's a increased probability that defect genes will be expressed. Although it's unlikely that they'll have 14 toes, there's a increased likelyhood that the offspring is less fit than the average, thus will not survive. Not only did I pick up a biology book, I acually studied biology. So I recommend you read that chapter again! I think you missed a couple of things []

[MiStACoRn]

I read it quite well.  This is only true if generations upon generations of brothers and sisters mate closing out the gene pool to any outside influence.  Do you know how different the genetic makeup of your cousins are to you?  The only way for this type of thing to happen is if you start somwhere and do not allow ANY outside genes to be passed on to the generations for about at least 10 generations before you'll start seeing biological effects.  i.e. - Two parents have a boy and a girl and they mate and have a boy and a girl, and they mate and have a boy and a girl.. not only would it never happen even in a world where incest was socially acceptable.. but the chances are extremely rare.  So you're right.. but you're arguing against a point I never made; that's not the reason why incest is culturally taboo.

[MiStACoRn]

I should probably also add that incest was taboo long before they had very many books on Biology or even knew what a gene was... so it really has nothing to do with the way our culture thinks of it.  Science helped to prove that under extreme curcumstances.. incest can increase the probability of defective genes and this only added to the taboo and turned into such rumers like "their kids will have 14 toes".. which is what I was poking at when I made that reference.. just saying it really has nothing to do with biology.  I wasn't being serious about the 14 toes thing. lol

[jc84corvette]

quote:Originally posted by MiStACoRn

What about people who may be having urges for these sorts of things and are fulfilling them in LDs to release the frustration of not being able to to them in RL?  People have a tendancy to write off fetishes and non-socially acceptable desires as perversions and deem the person who has them as "not normal" to seperate them from themselves.  Fact is.. all it takes is a little nurture or nature for you to become just like any of those people.  People go through things that you could never even imagine and it scars them mentally... and people respond by treating them like lunatics.  If somebody had cancer, would you treat them the same way?  Just because somebody has a mental disposition that makes them take a pleasure in a perversion doesn't mean they can control how they feel about it.. and fulfulling those pleasures in LDs can probably be very useful in taking the frustration out of RL so when an opportunity does come up that *will* effect RL.. they won't because they're not completely starved of it.

Also.. as for the having sex with family members thing and who fantisizes about it and whether or not it's "perverse".. I love how people just think that things are wrong but they have no idea why they think that way.  Not that I go around having sex with family members, (and I don't say that to seperate myself from those types of people.. but to avoid the negative social repercussions), but I do protect people's desires and fantasies to do it.  If you really believe that having sex with another family member is *wrong* and perverse, then I urge you to do some research and look up the history of incest and why it became a cultural taboo.  (and no it doesn't have to do with religeon, although religeon adopted the taboo and practically made it law).  Also.. if you think it's because their offspring will have 14 toes you're way off.  Pick up a biology book.

I certianly don't encourage hurting others or pedofilia.  But don't judge people who happen to fantasize or test their limits with stuff like this in LDs.  It's human nature to be curious, and it doesn't make them bad people.  They're only a stone throw off from you, and they also probably don't approve of a lot of your morals as well.  Plus some of these people don't even know why they feel that way or they have these urges and don't want them.. and they have to deal with that themselves.  Not that it makes it ok... but people who really have problems with these kinds of things obviously need help.. (and only because what they're doing effects and hurts themselves or others.. not because somebody else says it's bad) ..but don't judge a person for what he thinks or dreams about.  I'm sure if we opened up any of your minds and exposed it for all the things you've ever thought about doing or dreamt about you'd have a hard time telling other people they have problems.

Very good! I like people like you! You know whats right and whats wrong and you know NOT to judge.

[Foas]

..... I am mostly speachless for what some poeple are saying......
Think like this, When your LDing And another person enters that what if they are not Ld themselfs and you entered there dreams, Wouldnt they feel it, Fear it and control themselfs in there own mind, To Fear men from being raped or killed. Like if you killed your brother and your brother had the same dream that you killed him. Would alter poeple perseptions. To me anyone that rapes on Astral should die no matter if your mind or not your thinking of it and if you where to achie this in normal reality what would stop you? What ever you do in astral doesn't just effect you it effect other in the dream/plain itself. If i ever see someone rape someone in astral im gaon lugh when i torcher them!

[MiStACoRn]

quote:Originally posted by Foas

..... I am mostly speachless for what some poeple are saying......
Think like this, When your LDing And another person enters that what if they are not Ld themselfs and you entered there dreams, Wouldnt they feel it, Fear it and control themselfs in there own mind, To Fear men from being raped or killed. Like if you killed your brother and your brother had the same dream that you killed him. Would alter poeple perseptions. To me anyone that rapes on Astral should die no matter if your mind or not your thinking of it and if you where to achie this in normal reality what would stop you? What ever you do in astral doesn't just effect you it effect other in the dream/plain itself. If i ever see someone rape someone in astral im gaon lugh when i torcher them!

...you're not on the same page here.

you're assuming that the mutual agreement prior to the debate would be that LDs can cross and effect each other.  I don't believe that... and from the tone of the postings and what people have said I would assume a lot of the posters on this thread  don't believe it either.. (if I'm wrong then I see your concern) ..but if that were the case then LD wouldn't exactly be an outlet for these people to vent their frustrations like we've been posting it would be.. since the repercussions would be the same.  I clearly stated in my post that I don't condone actions that hurt others.  What you're argueing is a whole other discussion in itself... and one I'd rather not dabble into because there's just not any hard evidence to support it... so it would be kinda moot to this thread.  Just assume that the basis for what I said anyway (can't speak for others) is that I don't believe anything you do in LDs effects anyone other than yourself.

[Nagual]

quote:I would assume a lot of the posters on this thread don't believe it either.

I don't believe in either way...

quote:I don't believe anything you do in LDs effects anyone other than yourself.

I find it a little too easy to just state that.  To believe in something does not mean it is true.  Have you been always right?  Didn't you ever made any mistake...?  In the past, many people did believe in something that turned out to be false/wrong...  And then, they just said [].

I am not saying it is; I am not saying it isn't...  I am just saying that, if there is a possibility that it is, and until we know for sure, we shouldn't take that risk.  Especialy on such a dramatic subject.

[Tombo]

"you're assuming that the mutual agreement prior to the debate would be that LDs can cross and effect each other.. I don't believe that... and from the tone of the postings and what people have said I would assume a lot of the posters on this thread don't believe it either"

I find that very strange assumption. It's a very pleasent assumption indeed. No worry whatsoever, so I can see why you guys like it. But after reading many posts on spiritual matters I came to very different conclusions. No things exist solitary, every thing is interlinked. So I can't understand your opinion on this question.

MiStACoRn wrote "The only way for this type of thing to happen is if you start somwhere and do not allow ANY outside genes to be passed on to the generations for about at least 10 generations before you'll start seeing biological effects. i.e. - Two parents have a boy and a girl and they mate and have a boy and a girl, and they mate and have a boy and a girl.. not only would it never happen even in a world where incest was socially acceptable.. but the chances are extremely rare. So you're right.. but you're arguing against a point I never made; that's not the reason why incest is culturally taboo."

I do not really agree with that. First of all it's not true that you need 10 generations until you see negativ effects of incest. Thats very easy to explain. If your family carries a very rare gene for a bad disease which is not dominant. Chances are remote that they'll mate with a nonfamilymember carring that very same gene thus nothing will happend. but if they mate with each other the disease will be seen after the very first generation. And what about the retarded people that are heaped in remote moinatin villages? One other point you should consider is, that it's nearly impossible to clearly locate the orgin of a culturally taboo. Just theories here. Although I do admit, that nonbilogical reasons maybe it.

[Foas]

I also belive in everything being innerlinked together. Otherwise How could telepatchy exist? For if u dont belive dream effect other i eblive you dotn belive in telepathy but if u dont that your oppion cant diss get angry at you. But if you do and you belive that Ld is not, i think you are wrong cuss you yourself beleive when you think of another person and want to feel them or talk to them or feel there feelings you yourself are TPing into there dreampool. WItch could tramities them in a way. I dont mean it like to bad to do somthings things but then theres some limits to me. Cuss ibelive that u can change someone oppion on you or make them fear you. But in a way they should if you do that

[MiStACoRn]

hehe.. my whole post was based on the fact that I didn't want to debate the whole interlinked dreams and whatnot.  I don't believe in any of it.. and we're not going to change each other's minds about that..  it's another debate for another time. []  This debate is pretty much broken if we're not drawing off the same foundation.. which we're clearly not as I see now.  But.. my point is.. assume that I do belive that there's no negative consequences for actions in LDs.. then you can see my point.  Just like I said if we were to assume there were.. then I'd see yours.  Don't be so quick to shoot me down when right off the bat I gave you the respect to say that if you were to believe the oppposite on this issue, then I can see where you're coming from.  Personally, the way I see it is that there's no hard evidence to suggest they're linked.. and if they were.. it wouldn't be this elite world that only a few people knew about.  (I mean come on.. you people are discussing this on a public internet forum [])  Everybody would by trying to lucid dream, and you would have conversations with other people that they could remember.  None of this has ever been documented or proven.. it's just as futile as the whole ESP debate.  Many people will claim to have it, but whenever it was studied in a scientific environment it's failed miserably.

tombo,
  a few things.. You don't have to agree with me.  I practically took it straight from recent Biology and Anthropology classes and text. I think you may need to reread a few of those chapters.  I think you missed some things.  (Just teasing.. but I've also studied Biology and Anthropology in College. [])  Also, I didn't say 10, I said about 10.. meaning maybe 9, maybe 11, maybe 8, maybe 7  And to make it clearer, I meant that after ABOUT 10 generations of inbreeding, the probability will be high enough so that you might be able to predict a defect.  Anything that happens sooner would be quite against the odds.  I already know all of what you're saying... however it's never been tested or proven.  It's unethical, and probably never will be.  I can however, support my statements that a biological defect due to incest is extremely rare with a little history lesson;  Cleopatra was the product of generations upon generations of brother/sister incest.  Yet every Egyption male wanted a piece of her unless they was batting for the other team.  She was beautiful.  Also.. some royal families in Europeon countries that ran Monarchies were NOT allowed to mate outside of their immedate family because it was feared that the outside blood would ruin the royal blood line.  As far as I know.. no defects...  In science theories are pretty much useless unless they're proven.. and the incest/bad gene theory has never been tested and proven.. and it's more so based on statistics and increasing probablility.  I could say that since I haven't won the lottery yet, the probablility of me winning it next week is higher than it was after losing last week.. but reguardless I still have an extemely slim chance.  That's what you're saying when you say "increased probablility".  It's simply not a fact.. just a speculation.. althouh there's been a lot of cases throughout history that's proven it to not be true.  It's easy to prove wrong.. hard to prove right, especially in your remote mountain developmentally disabled (not retarded!  come on!  let's be nice here!  it's the new PC word for retarded since "retard" became a common 5th grade insult [8D])  example because you can't really prove that their problems weren't a result of conflicting variables.. which.. let's face it.. if you're living in remote mountian villiages.. is quite possible.

[MiStACoRn]

also.. on the taboo issue.. let's go ahead and say Western Civilization taboo instead of cultural, since incest isn't taboo in all cultures anyway.  It wouldn't be fair to assume that it's universally taboo.  Just as it's unfair to assume that we have the right answer.  My point on all of this anyway is not to argue biology with you.  I can certianly support my statements if I need to.. and I admit we both went off on a tangant with that.  But my point is.. people often believe things without knowing why they believe them.  Incestual Taboo seems to be a common one of these things.  Most people will just say that it's because of the biological issues surrounding it, but if you really do the math.. if you mate with a family member you're not going to do any damage to your gene pool, and you're at least giving people the freedom to persue their happiness.  If two cousins fell in love at some point, or a brother and sister fell in love.. thier lives are now a living hell thanks to society because they'll never be able to be together because other people are so quick to judge and condemn based on a "biological fact" that really doesn't even apply.  Great going society!  Way to enforce those social laws that you have no idea why they exist in the first place!  That's my point.  People use extreme statisitcal analysis to justify telling people what they can and can't do.. and people eat it up without thinking twice because it works with the social norm.  I'll tell you one thing... if Incest WAS the social norm, nobody would care about the bilogical effects.  Because they're too rare.. and people have to live the way their community wants them to live or they're alienated.

[Foas]

Agreed. Just here to start a conrosation LOL, But what has been proven that is does nto exist?. There no sure way anything exists. Just from what we feel. Like Ld no prove it is just a dream eather how are oyu sure, no one knows hehe.

[MiStACoRn]

honestly... I have a degree in Psychology and I've spent a lot of time with issues surrounding the human brain.  Granted, there's a lot we don't know about the brain still, but I think a lot of you would be surprised if you found out how much we actaully do know about it and are are utilizing that knowledge.

I can't really write a book on everything I know about the brain and why I think the things that I do here.. because it really would be a book.  But if you haven't explored the other side of what you believe then I think you're robbing yourself.  I wouldn't be here right now if I wasn't open to exploring alternative explainations for LDs and what their purpose is.  I have yet however, to find anything to sway me towards believing that you can interact and effect others in a LD.  Like anything, this is easier to prove wrong then to prove right.  If there was anything to prove scientifically, then there would be tests being done.  Split two people 100 miles apart and tell them both to LD and go to the same place, have a conversation, and then wake up and log that conversation to two seperate unbiased people in each location, then match up the stories.  It's that easy to conduct... why hasn't it been done?  If it has, show me a scientific document with details on the experiment showing the results.  Not something on Simon the Schizophrenic's Home Page. []

[shaman]

Just I was missing here to add oil to the fire...

Now, with all these postings I even forgot the username of the person who posted the original.... hyperdimensional ...

There is here an important point to draw the line: it is between normal dreams and lucid dreams. In normal dreams it might have happened to many people to have very weird dreams, involving incest, killing, or mutilating, etc... and these usually might appear as nightmares or as fun dreams, but they are dreams where the person is not lucid and has apparently no control, and where all the dream is "chanelled" from the unconscious part of that person. The lucid dream is different in that the person can (and here maybe it needs to be checked) have complete awareness that it is a dream and complete control (though as I said there might still be a large part of unconscious stuff coming up to the surface in the lucid dream). So in the lucid dream, the person say, whooow, it is just a dream, so let us try this and that. If the decision of doing things come from the conscious part of the person during the LD, then I would say that the person is aware of the things he is experimenting and this can certainly in a way or another affect him - I understand that one can fantasizes in his dream about having sex with a nice girl, but I do not understand how it is possible to fantasize about killing people...! even when you dream and you know it is a lucid dream. Anyhow, I believe that the main problem is that it might really affect the dreamer. The other problem that I see is that one day that person will be in the real physical world and will think it is a lucid dream and he will kill someone by mistake.

So, hyperdimensional, I belive you know that you are reaching the line when you experiment in your lucid dreams.

I just have one good thing to tell you HyperD, I believe that when you experiement in the LD, you actually interact directly with your unsconscious part of your mind. So that you have found a way to communicate with your deep self. And I believe that while in lucid dreams, most of your acts (sex, killings,...) are originating from your unconscious mind... so that after all you just are revealing your deep self to everyone here and also are discovering who you POTENTIALY are...

By the way, hyperdimensional, are you Ignacio, originally from Argentina, you look like him on your avatar..? and you speak (write) like him.

[Tombo]

Wow MiS... you should write a book..[8D]
I have to explain one thing. English is a foreign language for me. So sometimes I use the wrong words, which may sound rude (like retarded) I don't mean to be, I just can't express myself proper. So please don't take me word by word.

Now on the incest matter: I basically agree with you Mi.... To be honest my main subject is enviromental science. I had my my biology classes 2 years ago. So I can't say for absolute sure how bad it is if you have a child with your sister, but it probably won't be the end of the world from a biological viewpoint. I don't wanna tell anybody what he has to do and if two people are in love and wanna be together, thats fine with me, no matter if their are relatives or not. Now on the question if it's natural to have sex with your sister, which I think was the starting point: I still believe it's not, but I might be wrong. One could now studie different cultures and also investigate how common incest is done by mammals but I don't have the time to do that. that might be interestning
Now on the question if LD are interlinked: I think you missunderstood me. I do not believe that if you kill someone in a LD that at the same time an other person is killed in a dream. there's no proove what so ever to validate that theorie. And it sounds pretty illogical to me. . As far as experiments are concerned I would not take the fact that the scientific community is not able to confirm something, if they are willing at all, to draw the conclusion that it's not true. Things like dreams, where the subconscious is interferring are very hard to explore on a scientific basis.  
The connection would be more suble.The obvious is for example memory.
You remember your LD and that will influence you. Lets assume you had sex with your sister in a LD won't you look at her with different eyes now? I meam you have  a degree in Psychology so you should be able to tell us the consequences. I'm looking at it more from this viewpoint.

Now to Hyperdimensional: if you are using your dreams to explore your true nature and working on problemes, thats all fine with me. But if you just think the whole day what pervertion you could try next and then just mindlessly carry them out, then I truely think your wasting your LD's.

[jc84corvette]

Killing people in a LD for your first time is really scary I bet. well not scary, I mean to real!

[Nagual]

And when Hyperdimensional will realize that reality is just a dream...  I will stay very far away from him!!! []

[jc84corvette]

Killing people in a LD leads to killing in real life would make a weak case in court![]

[MiStACoRn]

quote:Originally posted by tombodenmann

Now on the incest matter: I basically agree with you Mi.... To be honest my main subject is enviromental science. I had my my biology classes 2 years ago. So I can't say for absolute sure how bad it is if you have a child with your sister, but it probably won't be the end of the world from a biological viewpoint. I don't wanna tell anybody what he has to do and if two people are in love and wanna be together, thats fine with me, no matter if their are relatives or not. Now on the question if it's natural to have sex with your sister, which I think was the starting point: I still believe it's not, but I might be wrong. One could now studie different cultures and also investigate how common incest is done by mammals but I don't have the time to do that. that might be interestning
Now on the question if LD are interlinked: I think you missunderstood me. I do not believe that if you kill someone in a LD that at the same time an other person is killed in a dream. there's no proove what so ever to validate that theorie. And it sounds pretty illogical to me. . As far as experiments are concerned I would not take the fact that the scientific community is not able to confirm something, if they are willing at all, to draw the conclusion that it's not true. Things like dreams, where the subconscious is interferring are very hard to explore on a scientific basis.  
The connection would be more suble.The obvious is for example memory.
You remember your LD and that will influence you. Lets assume you had sex with your sister in a LD won't you look at her with different eyes now? I meam you have  a degree in Psychology so you should be able to tell us the consequences. I'm looking at it more from this viewpoint.

It's easy to answer the question as to whether or not incest is natural... sure it is.  It's our culture that ISN'T natural.  If you put any other animal into a room with it's relative.. whether it be a brother, sister, cousin, whatever... chances are.. it will try to mate.  This also brings up a good Natural Selective point.  If incestual mating were detrimental to a species, Darwin's law would have ruled them out by now... yet there's tons of species in nature that don't mind a roll in the hay with their relatives and seem to be doing just fine.  By natural I would assume you mean biologically natural.. and basically if you take away a human's ability for rational thought.. we'd be mating with our brothers and sisters all over the place.  So I would have to say that incest would be more "natural" than not from a biological standpoint.  Also.. no matter what you believe as far as the origin of our species is.. if you believe Adam and Eve were the first humans.. well then their kids mated with each other.. otherwise we wouldn't exist.  If you're an evolotion fan.. then if you trace our species back far enough, you'd eventually get to a point where it would have been impossible for us to survive without incest.  So if that's the debate... saying it's wrong because it's not natural.. I would have to disagree..

As far as looking at your sister in a new way after having sex with her in an LD.. eh.. well here's a little basic psych for you.. your ID says: "hey look a hot girl", your EGO says: "We should have sex with her because we're horny and that will satisfy us", and the Superego says: "What's wrong with you?  That's our sister, and our culture says it's bad to have sex with her, so snap out of it!".  What I'm trying to say is that.. if your sister's hot.. your sister's hot.. you'll be just as attracted to her than anybody else.  What you CAN do, with higher processing to cope with cultural law, is convince yourself that you're not attracted to her because she's your sister.  But there's no other reason why you wouldn't be naturally.

I also understand that you don't mean a literal linking of the dreams.. i.e. if you kill someone in their dream then they die in life.. that's a little too Freddy Kruegar even for these forums []  But as a psychologist, I do belive that dreams are completely contained in your own brain, and you're the only one who's effected by them.  Most Psychologists don't give any merit to dreams as far as meanings go.  There was a psychological fad with them going back a few decades.. but for the most part nobody could really show any results one way or another.  Recurring dreams are sometimes explored in psychotherapy and can be useful, but other than that for the most part they're extremely random.

[Nagual]

quote:so stop comments that I'll be confused someday and start killing people in real life.

Where did I say you would be confused...?
In fact, I said the opposite; did you notice the word "realize" I used?
It means that you are confused right now... []
It was just about the belief that reality is just a dream...

[Tombo]

quote:Originally posted by Nagual

And when Hyperdimensional will realize that reality is just a dream...  []

Can you explain that a little more in detail? How did you came to that conclusion?

[Tombo]

quote:Originally posted by MiStACoRn

It's easy to answer the question as to whether or not incest is natural... sure it is.  It's our culture that ISN'T natural.  If you put any other animal into a room with it's relative.. whether it be a brother, sister, cousin, whatever... chances are.. it will try to mate.  This also brings up a good Natural Selective point.  If incestual mating were detrimental to a species, Darwin's law would have ruled them out by now... yet there's tons of species in nature that don't mind a roll in the hay with their relatives and seem to be doing just fine.  By natural I would assume you mean biologically natural.. and basically if you take away a human's ability for rational thought.. we'd be mating with our brothers and sisters all over the place.  So I would have to say that incest would be more "natural" than not from a biological standpoint.  Also.. no matter what you believe as far as the origin of our species is.. if you believe Adam and Eve were the first humans.. well then their kids mated with each other.. otherwise we wouldn't exist.  If you're an evolotion fan.. then if you trace our species back far enough, you'd eventually get to a point where it would have been impossible for us to survive without incest.  So if that's the debate... saying it's wrong because it's not natural.. I would have to disagree..

As far as looking at your sister in a new way after having sex with her in an LD.. eh.. well here's a little basic psych for you.. your ID says: "hey look a hot girl", your EGO says: "We should have sex with her because we're horny and that will satisfy us", and the Superego says: "What's wrong with you?  That's our sister, and our culture says it's bad to have sex with her, so snap out of it!".  What I'm trying to say is that.. if your sister's hot.. your sister's hot.. you'll be just as attracted to her than anybody else.  What you CAN do, with higher processing to cope with cultural law, is convince yourself that you're not attracted to her because she's your sister.  But there's no other reason why you wouldn't be naturally.

I also understand that you don't mean a literal linking of the dreams.. i.e. if you kill someone in their dream then they die in life.. that's a little too Freddy Kruegar even for these forums []  But as a psychologist, I do belive that dreams are completely contained in your own brain, and you're the only one who's effected by them.  Most Psychologists don't give any merit to dreams as far as meanings go.  There was a psychological fad with them going back a few decades.. but for the most part nobody could really show any results one way or another.  Recurring dreams are sometimes explored in psychotherapy and can be useful, but other than that for the most part they're extremely random.

On the incest matter: I see your point.
Do I believe in Adam and Eve or am I a evolution fan? Actually I do believe aliens created man. Do you know Erich von Däniken? Very interessting, but that would be a new discussion.
Are dreams only contained in the brain? That would be a new thread as well. I think a lot of people here don't think so, I myself am split about it. we should start a new thread to get their opinion as well.