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hi there Thaomasofgrey!

Your experience was very similar to my first few experiences.

My only advice at this stage, would be to change up your sleeping/eating/exercise patterns a little.  Do some exercise, eat a little less, get to that tired sensation...then head towards an afternoon nap, and see what happens. !

cheers

ps. I'm talking about experiences I had between 15 and 20 years ago, so I probably can't be too much help!

Hi Tazni, I would say that the only wrong time, is when you are too awake (body restless, mind active) ... OR... when you are too tired (you just fall asleep).

Have you read Robert Monroe's books? IF not - read his first book. He would wake regularly during the night and find himself in an OBE.

My only other comments would be :
a) In my experience it is extremely hard to conciously have an OBE, going all the way from fully awake to OBE.    It may be easier for a person to learn to unconciously recognise that they are in, or near, the OBE state.. and then become fully awake and concious within that state, as opposed to progressing gradually from "physically awake" through to "OBE"

b) Some of your comments re: body sensations sound familiar to me.  However  - there are the physical sensations which you feel as you lie in your bed, the ones you describe above, which are common...yet no OBE occurs.  Then there are the similar non-physical sensations that occur during the early stages of OBE, which you described in another post.   

best wishes !

Its rather common to be in that muddled state at the beginning of some OBEs. In those you really have to fight to get the OBE to be 'full'. Deepening works wonders at this state.

You will know when you have a full OBE, it is unmistakable.

This has been my experience too, in the past.  The first one or two times it happens, it is frustrating when you wake up without any "success". Then the next time, you start to recognise that state and you can hold it for a few seconds, you are thinking "right, what do I do next".  And then you can try and get deeper into the experience, and you have more clarity.

In my limited experience, there is a continuum that goes from very muddled, all the way through to very clear.  I can't honestly say that I could move from muddled to "very clear" but I could definitely move out of the "muddled" into a clearer state.

As you say, the sensation is unmistakable when it is "full", in my experience it felt more real than sitting here typing on my laptop.  

Tazni -   My suggestion would be re: diet, exercise, sleep patterns.   I'm not suggesting that you do a 3month hard core regime, but try the following.  I'm assuming that you don't work on saturday and you have free time on saturday when you will be undisturbed.

Thurs, fri  - don't eat too much food (don't starve yourself though).  Eat as if you're on a diet.  Don't drink any alcohol. get a good night's sleep.  Exercise... running, swimming, whatever.. make yourself tired.

Sat - wake up early. If you normally get up at 8am, wake at 5am.   Exercise, light breakfast, shower etc.   Just do what you normally would do.  At some time between 11am and 3pm you'll feel a bit sleepy - give it a go now.  Your body will be physically tired and your mind comparatively awake.  

good luck !

Hi Simo -  I can definitely confirm that they are useful.

Approx 10 years ago now, I made a big effort listening to the gateway wave 1, focus 10 cd.  Over the course of several months,  I listened to it many, many times.  On a couple of occasions I went directly from being fully concious on my bed, to realising that my mind was awake but my body was "gone", and then onto experiencing astral projection.    On several other occasions, I fell asleep during the cd, but woke to find myself experiencing some strange things.

Excellent track !! very impressed.  Would not pick a brazilian accent from that, not in a million years.

I thought RTZ was on a high frequency b/c it was harder to get to.  For me atleast, lucid dreams are easier to get to than RTZ.  I enjoyed my RTZ experiences, b/c things looked more realistic, and I could walk around without floating, lol.  I could experience things that were really there, instead of having my imagination altar my perception.  RTZ is also better, b/c that's where I met my spirit guide and one of my totem animals.  I think it's like a station on the radio, something I'm tuning in to.  RTZ is the best station, b/c you can go spy on people! lol.

Hi there Lily, I'd agree with you when you say it is like a station on the radio.... The "real time zone" is a station on the radio, no more or less significant, in my opinion, than the other stations you experience when you are lucid dreaming or projecting.

Ok, consider that the RTZ is just one of many "radio stations" - no more important than others. Not "higher" or "lower".

How well can you tune into that radio station ? Is the reception crystal clear ? or is it a little bit distorted ? or very distorted ? Again, being able to "tune in" doesn't, IMO, make for a more important / significant experience.

Lets take a lucid dream. How lucid do you really become ? can you "tune in" to the point that the experience is as real as everyday life ?

When you are in a lucid dream, try demanding/ stating your intent. " I will see clearly" or "I will have an OBE" or "I will travel outside my body".  Good luck !

Hi Sepiroth - welcome to the astral pulse.  Looking forward to reading about your experiences !


regards,
mark

Hi Lily - welcome to the astral pulse.

mark

Through this dark time in my life, I have been unable to reach 3D blackness for about 2-3 months straight. The skill has totally left me it seemed. Then the past couple nights, at around 2:30 AM, I close my eyes and I instantly know I'm going to be able to get into this 3D black state.

Well last night I let it take me farther than it ever has. After a while I got to the point where I could feel myself spinning very fast. Occasionally I would touch my forehead and I could feel the muscles in that area straining and 'pulsing' almost. Same with my eyes. So my question is, since I seem to know the variables that must be manipulated to reach this state (around 2 AM or so, and usually having worked an active day), and gotten to the point of 'spinning' what should I do next? Should I just let it take me farther and farther each time I do it? Should I stop trying to have an earthly reference and saying things to myself or touching my forehead and concentrate solely on this expanding sensation? Plz help.

Hi there thenoob, as per the advice you've already been given, you should "go with the flow".  If you are experiencing the 3d blackness then you are extremely close to stepping into the astral, and to put it frankly, if you haven't yet experienced this, you will be astounded when you do.

The way I experience it, is as follows: First the 3d blackness, where you get a sensation of depth around you, and you can barely sense your physical body. Then, you are "in" the 3d blackness...for me, it feels like i'm sitting or standing in a pitch black room. At this point, I have no real reference to my physical body lying on the bed. Next, I open a door and step into the astral.

So, if I can give you any advice:
1) forget about touching your forehead. Try to ignore any pulsing sensation/ muscles contracting in your forehead, instead aim to relax this area to the point that you forget you have a forehead !
2) Let yourself drift into the sensation of the 3d blackness, trying to keep a clear mind without falling asleep ! This can be very tricky.

Also - there isn't just one right way of doing this...so try several. Be patient too !! and take heed of awakened mind's fantastic advice "Do not be excited or afraid, be aware".

Hi Drift,

Welcome to the forum - it sounds like you have much to contribute ! I'm looking forward to reading more of your posts. Do not worry too much about a "lack of terminology"...It really isn't a big deal !

kind regards,

Mark

Did you check out Franz Bardon and his works? I read "Initiation into Hermetics" and I'm impressed how he in a very good way explained tetragrammaton, four elements and much much more. What do you think of him and his works?

The 10 steps on the Path of the Magician is an incredible journey and not too difficult at all . This is in IIH but the Key to the Qabballah has more obvious errata . If there are errors in IIH I have found nothing major yet . I love FB!
His book IIH  teaches control of the hermetic elements , how to begin the emerald tablet and how to begin the kabballah . This is a great first step for any magician .

I actually found it extremely difficult !!  So much so, that I only managed the 1st stage, and that took about a year.  I gave up soon after.

FB does say however, that time is not of the essence - only proceed to the next step once you're happy with the last. Some people can complete it fairly quickly and for others I guess it may take a few years !

Maybe I'll give it another go one day.

Mark

It took you three years to come back with a comment? :locolaugh:

My advice... forget about it.   :rotfl:

I'd say the main problem here, is not that your eyelids are twitching, but you are actually too preoccupied with the fact that they are twitching. You need to learn to focus your mind on other things and ignore these minor distractions.

You need to let your mind drift, or "focus", to such an extent that the flickering eyelids don't bother you. The fact that your eyelids twitch, or a carhorn goes off outside, or whatever, shouldn't bother you. Ok, if someone barges into your room, or the phone starts ringing, or you need the loo - that's different !

Consider this - when you go to sleep each evening, you don't spend hours in bed lying awake thinking "I can't get to sleep because of my eyelids" ?! do you ! Why is this ?

I'm sorry if my post sounds a bit flippant - I don't mean it to sound that way if it does. I have had the same problem in the past, on quite a few occasions. I simply stopped the exercise and tried again the next day whenever it occurred.

Mark

I'd recommend the hemisync wave 1 cd.  It worked for me !  Not every time mind you.....far from it.

Try it 2 or 300 times and see what happens.. !

Mark

Hi there !

When you say "upside down" - do you mean, with your chest facing the floor?

If so, that is the way I've exited the past 2 or 3 times. I float away from the bed, watching it all the time. As I exit everything is blurry, but comes into focus as I move 2 or 3 feet away.

Or when you say upside down, do you mean, feet up in the air, like doing a handstand ?!  

Mark

Hi there Atat23 !!

Well done.  You'll probably remain sceptical, even after you've had several OBEs that are so lifelike that you find it hard to differentiate between the OBE and actual physical reality.

I've had quite a few "OBEs" now...I'm not sure how many. Not hundreds, but a fair few !

I always asked the questions "is this an OBE" or "is this a dream" after the type of experiences of the kind you mentioned.  It didn't matter how clear the experience was, either mentally or visually, I still couldn't quite accept it.

However, this all changed when I managed to conciously will an OBE. I remember the first one very clearly...I was lying on my bed, relaxed, thinking (as usual) that nothing was happening. Then, I heard what sounded like a freight train running through my house. I realised that I was surrounded by a 3d blackness. Then I realised I was in the back of a limo. A butler opened the door for me and I stepped out onto a beautiful driveway. The experience was as vivid as waking "reality" - maybe more so !

My most recent OBE was a couple of nights ago.... Lying in bed, feeling very tired, I heard some very strange noises...how can I describe them...pots & pans banging together ? electronic noises, etc ? Anyway, I quickly realised "there's an OBE on the way". So, I relaxed. I could feel myself start to float up. As always, I got excited and this started to reverse the "seperation".  So I was quick to gather my thoughts and just relax, let it all hang out...let it happen on its own. As soon as I "let go", the seperation re-commenced. I found myself 3 or 4 feet above my bed, it was extremely dark in the room (I don't think my vision was too clear anyway) but I could make out the shape of my girlfriend in bed. After a couple of failed attempts at trying to fix my vision, and some floating around in the bedroom, I decided "right, thats enough" and headed back for my body.

Keep up the OBE attempts Atat23 ! and don't get too disheartened if you don't experience any for a while. I've spent months and months trying for OBEs in the past, with not a shred of luck. But don't give up, and they'll happen !!

regards,
Mark

Better not to have music, I'd say !

Thanks Knightlight.  That will be the last time I accuse anyone of being a fraud, based on my gut instincts....

Anyway, apologies again for my poor form !  :redface:

Mark

I was part of the Virtual Classroom and the email Knightlight posted is authentic.

I don't want to stir the pot any more than it is, just wanted to let you know the email is accurate.

Having said that, I still think Frank is/was authentic. He took the time to answer my questions, both public and PM, and I am very thankful for that.

Either he is recovering somewhere away from computers or he has switched his primary focus (as he would say). I have moved on and have been trying to go at it alone with the info Frank has left. It is slow going, but it is better than nothing.

Knightlight - please accept my humble apologies for my earlier comments. I feel like a bit of an idiot right now !!
kind regards,
Mark

Hi Tantalord,

Well done !!! keep up the regular practise.

Also - try to keep a diary beside your bed. Get into the habit of writing down every detail of your experiences, as soon as you wake....What seems so clear in the morning, often fades after an hour or two ! This is a very hard habit to get into, but give it a go.

Mark

LOL nay    Yes I just decided to randomly forge an email from Frank to impress everyone and try to seem important...    

Knightlight, I have posted on this forum for 2 or 3 years now. I have read hundreds of Frank's posts.

The email you claim to have received from Frank is clearly a hoax. I am not sure why you wrote it. To be honest, I do not care.

If you continue to post similar material with the purpose of misleading people, I will simply delete your posts.

regards,
Mark

Hi there Moondial !

Although I still cannot project at will (far from it) I have been through exactly what you experienced.

I noticed that I could usually get good results with sleep deprivation, eating a bit less, and working out hard.  

I'm not saying "no food for 7days, stay awake all night"...  Instead, try a couple of days when you get up earlier than normal and go to bed earlier / or later. Eat lighter food, do some hard exercise.

The object being, to upset your sleeping cycle. Now, try and project at .....11:30am on a saturday/sunday, after all that hard work.

It worked for me ! Perhaps you could try it, good luck !

I agree with Jalef's original post... Tolkien's middle earth should exist within the astral (not that I've ever visited it) in a relatively stable fashion.

However, each reader of that epic will have imagined middle earth and its characters in a slightly different way - would this affect the permanency of the "astral" middle earth ?

And how would we perceive it, if it really existed as an aggregate of the perceptions of millions of different individuals ?

Hey there souljah333 !

i have nothing against religion.

I agree - But I often find it hard, when confronted with aspects of religion I don't understand. I still find myself saying "that's wrong".  But I believe that I   should be saying to myself "I think that's wrong".  Its hard to differentiate between the two !

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that all religions have good and bad aspects. I like to pick & choose from all religions, taking on board the things I find valuable, & discarding the things I find outdated / sexist / inhumane/etc.

Like you, I'm not a big fan of equal rights - I prefer the law of the jungle. Whether its the man or the woman who ends up more powerful, so be it !

But then we have people on this board making crazy conclusions based upon their experiences. To tell you the truth, I have had some amazing "lucid dreams". None of your out of body experiences which u think are proven to you can be proven to be true, in the obvious reality that they could just be dreams. I even read some members saying exaclty this.....

....May God guide us all and save us from the filth of paganism, spiritual crack, and mental retardation.

-Abraham

Yet, the Koran says :
"Do you not see how Allah has created the seven heavens, one above another"

I'm not too fond of religious arguments & quotes; they just go around in circles. I think we can all agree though, whether its astral projection, christianity or islam - none stands up to scientific scrutiny. Arguing otherwise is pointless !

Mark