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Exactly.  Because time is not a thing, it's a measurement.

When you say it's not a 'thing' what exactly is a 'thing?'

A 'measurement' is just a concept like 'time'... And these things are mostly used to navigate through the physical world with its natural laws.

The laws are quite different in the astral - gravity for one, seems to turn off and on at different frequencies in the astral, (gravity being a concept in the physical also). You can fall asleep for a minute and feel like you've been asleep for hours so time is either distorted or doesn't exist.

Deciding to fly, means at times you have the will to manipulate gravity in the astral. Going into 'the void' means you can manipulate time. So yes, these things exist in the astral but (mostly) at the expense of our will and creativity.   

P.S: I didn't want to say 'always' or make any solid comitments to laws in the astral cause a lot of the time we're swept away in a story line that manipulates the experience.

With all due respect to CFTraveler, I dont agree with much of what she said on this topic...

Change does not equal 'time perception'... In fact quite the opposite, experiencing change means you are 'in the moment' and probably have no care for time. The expression 'time flies' comes to mind.

We dont actually 'perceive' time at all. In terms of perception, we can objectively view a clock and watch what seems like time pass but we can also look at a blank wall that doesn't change and take a good estimate of how much time has passed. In physical reality, we constantly live in an infinite present, we aren't perceiving/experiencing changes in time at any point. We can only look back at a sequence of events and relate it to a timeline or look forward and do the same thing..

When OBE or in dream state we experience a 'real' lack of time perception. The perception of time only appears if you try to put into persepective a sequence of events. Without thinking about timelines, time does not exist because the only thing that exists in a dream or in an OBE is what you think about. Thats why people say that time does not exist in the astral because we dont spend much time thinking about it. Even if you spend a lot of time thinking about time in the physical, its not beeing 'perceived' ir just being conceptually thought about.

Stopping time in the astral can happen in a way where previous events do not enter your mindset leaving pure thought about the moment, if the thought of the moment is consistent, event or energy changes will feel like time stopped or more likely feel as if time didn't exist at all.

Maybe your boyfriend was pretending to be asleep as you his ticked off you dont sleep in the same room!

Are you going to attempt to sell something here?

Because I see no point in posting like this.

Either
1. explain your method e.g. what physical tools you used/are using, in clear English
2. Set up a seperate website and sell whatever you want through that
or
3. Stop posting on something you 'cant' talk about

Sorry to be blunt but I find this type of thread annoying and attention seeking.

I got interested in OBE's and stuff when I first got proper access to the internet, like early 2000. My thoughts at the time were that I would stumble upon advanced spiritual groups that would be able to do things like that.

To this date, I have found no convincing evidence of anything like telekenisis, teleportation, proof of ghosts or extra terrestorals... etc... Yeah I've seen interesting stuff but nothing that has left me mind blown.

Its a shame really.

OK this week I had alcohol on two occasions - one on Tuesday (1.5 pints of ale), one on Wednesday (3 glasses of wine). Thursday morning I had two OBEs.

I should probably also point out I had some kind of mental breakdown this week, so I wasn't in a normal state of mind.

Thought Iid clock in here as havent checked these boards in what must be months..

I think the whole alcohol thing is just based on the fact that we sleep lighter when intoxicated so we remember our dreams/Obe's easier so they seem more vivid.

I've been having a tough time mentally too lately so I just wanted to say you're not alone on that front mate. 

Just to add: I did notice that you asked this question for the physical only. But, to me, one can't discuss something like the origin of consciousness in birth without including non-physical concepts. It just does not make sense...

Good point.

I was just trying to be logical with the whole death thing. No mocking intended.

When I talk about personality.. Personality is ultimately what defines you as a person, your conscious self. The personality we all possess is the result of a determined set of inherited traits from biological inheritence and the experiences we go through.

I'm just finding it difficult to understand why the personality would detatch from the being that ulitmately makes it function when the lights are turned off.

Thanks for your thoughts guys.

I think you're all right in a way. If we take all your answers from the begining and go forwards.. Dingo's 'budding off from the Mother' (a very tidy, logical concept) is not a begining but more of a split to give cellular level atoms consciousness.

Then, the fromation of the nervous system and nuerological activity that makes consciousness a real communicative mechanism (Stillwater) between the sum of all its atoms which and the relationship between different organs... Purely mind blowing stuff when you think about it.

Then the birth itself and the climatization with the atmosphere on its first breaths... The nuerons must go into overdrive with Real learning and bonding (or lack of) shaping its whole life experience. (Kind of where determinism kicks in)

It would seem that consciousness grows and develops, plateaus and then just ends... e.g. children become reflective around the age of 5/6 when they can ask 'why' questions. Awareness of different feelings develop and we become a personality (surely your personality is consiousness in its most developed form)... After puberty, our personalities change here and there but not that much. Most people at 55 years old aren't normally that different (in personality terms) to when they were say 39.

Then we die. And thats it. If consciousness is the communication between different nuerons and the nervous system function, without it, consciousness (a personality) cant exist (in logic).

Thats my thoughts.           

at conception, birth, 12 years old?

When?

Sounds horrible. Have had similar also.

I think if you do get the chance to confront the energy, it will disappear as im not sure about 'negs' either.

No, my physical eyes were closed.  But I did have double input, I could 'see' my physical body and at the same time I could 'feel' my etheric hands plunging into my chest and forehead and busting through my crown, which was the solidest of them.  I did punch through and opened it up.  So it wasn't wasted time.  Fascinating, actually.

I know exactly what you mean by 'double imput'. I think its where the 'old hag' stems. In fact, I think the old hag is an OBE glitch where our consciousness has not duplicated and joined the etheric body.

I've experienced what you mention, e.g. being aware of my body and being aware of being OOB at the same time. I know of scenarios of further splits but I cant get my head round doing it. I also find the validity of different focus levels, (higher/lower planes, focus 23 etc) hard to believe.

Flying is easy - you just propel forward.

'Balance' overall is difficult.

Just do as you do in real life, e.g. when you want to walk, you dont think about your legs consciously. Do the same in the Astral and just walk.

Weightlessness is an amazing sensation the first few times and it will blow you away. When you've done it a lot though, you get a new persepctive and appreciation for the physical laws that we inhibit in the waking world.

Im from London... Whats the service you require?

The only danger I believe about AP is fear- not everyone is ready for an expanded awareness.  So if you're a stable person you should be ok.  But beware of secret fears, those will 'be revealed', so to speak.

lol. You'd make a great cult leader.

We ALL wanna know our secret fears! Im in.

I would leave, I yern to leave the phisical world so bad. Im not depressed or anything. I just feel what is here is not right for me, I would much  prefer not having tp live by this todays society forced on us.

This is a sad statement to make. People seem to be disillusioned by what is in the Astral. I've had a number of projections, and as great as they are, they dont compare to the freshenss, realness and natural laws of the physical.

Live in a different country. Not all society's have the same values. So many different cultures with different mindsets to choose from.

I think Robert Bruce had some tests done but there was some sort of excuse.. ooops.. I mean reason that he couldn't do it.

You can't get any closer to God than you already are. You can only learn to acknowledge his presence or not.

What if someone thinks they're acknowledging his presence but they were dellusional?

zorgblar -

Question everything.

define 'everything.' 

Let me start by saying I don't even know if AP is a real experience, as opposed to plain allucination.

However, the answer to that is pretty simple. Bin Laden is not their enemy, if he exists at all. Pretending that he is suits some goal, whatever that goal may be. Perhaps Bin Laden's corpse is sitting in a cave somewhere, and all the effort made to find him merely a smokescreen of one sort or another.

I state the above not as someone who is inclined to crazy conspiracy theories and eager to blame "Bush" or whoever for all the world's problems, but as someone who has a much deeper understanding and awareness than most people regarding just how evil Islam, the real Islam, is.

You could also posit several other explanations. Perhaps Al Qaeda has astral agents defending bin Laden. Perhaps the russian or chinese government has astral agents protecting Al Qaeda, possibly without their knowledge. Perhaps demons have grown close to them, and are providing some sort of protection. Perhaps God is on bin Laden's side.

Its sad that people like you actually exist.

You say that you are 'not inclined to crazy conscpiracy theories' yet, your whole post is one delluded, jumbled piece of babble.

I wish people would think about their own lives for just a moment and then decipher how much of it is clouded by conspiracy. Not much huh? But so many people regard government workers or officials as some kind of inter-galatic, secret high-force with access to information in the spirit and Astral worlds. lol... But they MUST keep it from the public!

I think programmes like 'the X files' or books like 'the Da Vinci Code' help fuel the creativeness of these theories. Yes, govenrments have an agenda but if they could manipulate the material world through the Astral, they'd more than likely WANT us to know about it to scare us senseless. The government control people with fear, thats their most powerful tool.

And if you really think Islam is 'evil', you'd be the ideal voter the government would love to target.

I'm not afraid to say that I don't think someone can be killed by another person who was OBE'ing. 100% No.     

   

I'd be interested... as I am starting to learn more about quantum physics etc. I am also very interested in the holographic universe theory... does your theory touch on these?

If you want to know more about Quantum Physics try http://www.advancedphysics.org/ There are a lot of medical students and Professors there that try and wrap their brains around the quantum world. I remember going through a faze of wanting to learn more about it but the extreme Mathematics and the debates and disagreements on different theories from respected academics meant I was out of my depth and just simply couldn't keep up.

Interestingly, Most of the Quantum Physics students that blog have no religious or spiritual belief systems. 

Hello jub jub.  I'm sorry to hear about your loss.  Thanks for the insight.  Yes you're quite right, all the philosophizing in the world doesn't alter the fact that we think and breathe and have lives which come and smack us hard in the face, real, imaginary or whatever.  In the end it doesn't matter two cents, we're here for sure, and we dunno why!

Agreed. Maybe the 'Why's' aren't as important as people think they are.

Yes but the difference between what I remember yesterday is that I can produce evidence of what happened or what I did. Lack of evidence widens the scope for the possibility of an illusion or a mind trick. Its how a court of law works.

I'll be honest, I don't how much proof there is on NDE's. But I do know there's a lot of anecdotal cases are around kind of similar to UFO stories.

And what can you do about Anecdotes? Believe or not believe I suppose.   

I didn't realise my clip was from "what the bleep". 

Thats where we all have to be careful about where we get our beliefs from. Im not saying that the particular clip was right or wrong but its a cartoon! and there are a lot more unanswered observations in Quantum Physics than conclusions. From what I've gathered, Scientists are not even close to understanding Quantum Mechanics. So for us Laymans to look at one piece of data and apply it to basically 'the theory of everything' is nuts. (But I do it to so Im also in the Nuts brigade  )

In general, people are mislead quite easily without questioning the validity of information.  Salesmen thrive off the lack of questioning people ask when pitching a product. Mystics are paid handsomly for preying on the vulnerable. Governments will go to a war with a media friendly reason and people out there believe it. Its how cults are formed. On a deeper note, a lot of people wouldn't dare question the validity of the Bible or the Quran but they believe away.  

Synergy... Yet another example you give from 'What the bleep..' Do you go to Rathma's School of Enlightenment?  The problem with Masaru Emoto's experiments are that they are not always consistent e.g. there are water crystals that have negative prayers where the shape looks subjectively beautiful and vice versa. They are very selective with what they present.

Im not saying its wrong to have beliefs but I sometimes wish a lot more people would ask 'Why' they believe.

Ah Yes, I have the DVD of 'What the Bleep..' Its an interesting format, the way its presented and has that 'feel good' factor with it. There is a lot of theory and philosophy there but I was disappointed to find out that three of the directors belong to 'Ramtha's School of Enlightenment'. Ramtha is the entity that supposidly channels through JZ Knight who features heavily in the film. She is a channeller of some kind of warrior from Atlantis thousands of years ago . JZ Knight is CEO of Ramtha' School of Enlightenment'. So its easy to see how the final edited verion can be manipulated to satisfy the directors. I aslo remember that one of the Scientists said the film shaped his quotes completely out of context.

NDE's are anecdotel. Nuerons fire upon wakening and people can only report what feels like a memory once they're awake. Theres no way of telling if the memory is of a real experience or of if the brain just created it upon wakening. As for the validity of NDE's, They are extremely rare considering the amount of people that come close to death around the world every day. There are only a few unexplainable events compared to the amount of people that nearly die.

Catmeow: Thanks for the little snippet also from 'what the bleep'. But Observing is an act. Not a thought.
 

So 'the pure action' of consciousness would be an act of stopping thoughts?

Thinking isn't always an action. We can actively think of something but even when we aren't active, thoughts will continue to be present.

As long as the nuerons are firing, every human is accompanied by thoughts throughout their life. Only when we die and our brains stop the magic sparks is when we experience nothingness. But then we wont and know anything about it.

If we have no thoughts then we don't have an experience.